2005 Miami final Federer vs Nadal

Discussion in 'General Pro Player Discussion' started by tennistomcat, May 9, 2009.

  1. tennistomcat

    tennistomcat Rookie

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    Last night, I was searching for matches of Fed in his domination days to see exactly how he was able to dominate everyone - I came across the Miami match to see how the younger federer in his prime faired against nadal - What I saw kinda surprised me - Federer seemed to play very similar to how he plays against rafa now - a large amount of unforced errors from the forehand. A few things that I noticed: Fed's serve bailed him out of a few more difficult service games than it has as of late & he tried to pounce onthe nadal 2nd serve more often back then but he looks pretty much the same. Rafa was still constant in attacking the Fed backhand but I saw him choke on a few more crucial points with unforced errors than I see him do now --- his serve was not so much a weapon back then although he still had some clutch serving, he wasn't so great at net, & in the 5th set he seemed gassed & out of energy. I think Fed was 23 yrs old at the time & Rafa 18. I'm a fan of both guys & am just trying to make objective observations but it seems to me that Fed's gameplay seems very similar now to the way he was 4 yrs ago but Rafa seems to have improved his game more noticeably - Anyone else who's looked back on this match have any thoughts?
     
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  2. 35ft6

    35ft6 Legend

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    ^ If it's the match I'm thinking of, Nadal got a horrendous call at the end that cost him the match. Yeah, I said "cost him the match."
     
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  3. tennis-hero

    tennis-hero Banned

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    Nadal= top spin that lands a few miles within the baseline, never a risky shot unless its a 100% certain winner

    if its a 100% certain winner, then yes, he can crank up the power

    and when completley pushed he can hit a decent passing shot for sure

    pure % play

    it affects fed because Fed can't adapt to it

    i dont rate Nadal in the top 1000 of the all time greats

    he is the GOAT on clay, but thats only because clay is the weakest form of tennis

    defensive weak tennis

    this era has become all about defense, its disgraceful, Nadal embodies all of that, the "wall" who forces a OE or is given a clear winner even current form Fed wouldn't shank

    they ruined all the surfaces and all variences are gone

    when borg did the wimbledon + RG double it was an accomplishment

    now it should be considered as standard

    IF 1995 Muster played today he would get the double and he never passed the first round on real grass

    only the US OPEN has any kind of relevance today. The funny thing is bar the top 4 the era is so weak that Nadal can even win the US open

    Federer's mental meltdown speaks volumes on his GOAT credentials

    - he cant adapt (no he's too arrogant and moronic to adapt)
    - he cant play anyone who can run down balls
    - he relies on his serve
    - his forehand has even become a liability

    Nadal just plain sucks so theres no need to list his weaknesses

    but Nadal is so easy to beat, it shows how weak this era is when no one has the poise to capitalise on nadal's weaknesses

    when you force nadal in the corner with a strong shot that would normally be a winner.... if you hit to his forehand, 99% of the time when he runs it down he goes cross court

    in fact his 2 best shots are his FH and BH cross court

    if you kill the angles you force him to go down the line, he can still do it, but its more of an ask, and for mr % play, it would be enough to put doubts in his mind

    S&V wouldn't work, but taking chances forcing the issue, and most importantly- ATTACKING nadal whenever you can will destory Nadal on any surface

    Tsonga just showed how easy it is to beat nadal
     
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  4. RCizzle65

    RCizzle65 Hall of Fame

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    And I thought this would be a good topic
    *leaves before the fighting starts*
     
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  5. dextor

    dextor Rookie

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    Watching Nadal v Federer in their two Wimbledon finals:

    Nadal noticebaly played much better their second meeting, much less errors, better winners. Federer was GENERALLY the same.
     
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  6. TheNatural

    TheNatural Legend

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    [​IMG]

     
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  7. miyagi

    miyagi Professional

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    I agree with what you said after that match I thought it would only be a matter of time before Nadal started challenging Fed.

    I think Nadal had age and a great coach on his side so he was able to adapt and tweak his game.

    To be honest I cant say I have seen Federer improve at all but I think he had less need to as he was top of the tree but maybe was a little complacent.

    Two great but different champions
     
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  8. Bud

    Bud Bionic Poster

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    Agreed. What a bunch of tripe.

    The post had absolutely NOTHING to do with the thread content.

    Hey tennis-hero *chuckle* ... go rant somewhere else :wink:
     
    Last edited: May 9, 2009
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  9. vtmike

    vtmike Banned

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    It just goes to show how bad a matchup Nadal is for Federer!...The difference is that Nadal wasn't good enough to get to Federer back then as opposed to now...Unfortunately Federer has never been able to cope with Nadal's strategy and his style of play...

    After losing big matches in big events to Nadal, Federer has lost confidence...and this loss of confidence has spilled over his performances against other upcoming players too...
     
    Last edited: May 9, 2009
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  10. tacou

    tacou Legend

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    the fool who said tennis is a defensive game these days should be showed to the door. it's all about ripping from the baseline. fool.
     
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  11. Errr...Nadal had already won their first matchup in 2004, before that match was ever played. Nadal has ALWAYS been "good enough" to beat Federer. Nadal was up two sets and a break in the third, and came within two point of winning that match. He just got pooped out in the end.

    You do know that Nadal has beaten Federer every single year at some point since 2004 right? You can't say the same is true in reverse. Maybe Federer will turn it around and this will be his year, but please, give some credit where it is due.
     
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  12. I mean, I'm not a fan of Nadal by any means, but...overdone much?
     
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  13. illkhiboy

    illkhiboy Hall of Fame

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    I think what VTMike meant was, that Nadal wasn't good enough to face Federer in hard court finals week in and week out. Which is completely true. It used to bother me a lot as I used to root for Nadal in those days.

    If you notice, Federer and Nadal have only played in 3 hard court finals since 2005. The Miami match, the Dubai final and the Australian Open final this year. And until 2007, it was mainly Nadal that kept getting knocked out of hard court events before the final. A couple times it was unfortunate that Nadal reached the final but Federer missed the event (Madrid and Montreal, 2005).
     
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  14. TheNatural

    TheNatural Legend

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    It also helped that Nadal was constantly hampered by injury and injured for 'not good enough for' a large number of slams before 2008.

     
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  15. vtmike

    vtmike Banned

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    Yeah you covered it pretty well...
     
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  16. vtmike

    vtmike Banned

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    How old are you? See illkhiboy's post ^^^

    and give me a break...All I said is that he was not good enough to reach the hardcourt finals when he was 18...How is that taking credit away from Nadal?? You don't agree 2008 is when he hit his peak?
     
    Last edited: May 9, 2009
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  17. thalivest

    thalivest Banned

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    tennis-hero saying Muster would get the French-Wimbledon double today, LOL! Now I have heard it all. Someone should start a poll if Muster would win Wimbledon today.
     
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  18. LurkingGod

    LurkingGod Rookie

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    He did it ONCE. If it's that easy why didn't he do it more often?

    You have more holes in your analysis than my fishnet tight.
     
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  19. lidoazndiabloboi

    lidoazndiabloboi Semi-Pro

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    ...yet somehow, sampras never relied on his serve??
     
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  20. veroniquem

    veroniquem Bionic Poster

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    Tsonga hasn't shown a thing, he's 1-3 vs Nadal. Tennis has always been a compromise between defense and offense. You want to ONLY attack all the time, you get Gulbis. You can't win many matches that way.
    As for RG/W double becoming the standard, I'm anxiously waiting for the dozen or so players who are going to pull it off. Really I can't wait...
     
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  21. okdude1992

    okdude1992 Hall of Fame

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    haha great post tool. you might one day be the next TT guru following in the shoes of the almighty BP. you obviously know nothing about tennis. go back to your cave
     
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  22. veroniquem

    veroniquem Bionic Poster

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    It's not just "missed the event". Nadal has played 15 finals on hard court, as you said he met Fed in 3 of those (winning 2 out of the 3 and having match points in the one he lost: the first one), Federer didn't play 6 of those events and lost before the final in the other 6.
     
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  23. T1000

    T1000 Hall of Fame

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    ok dude, you know nothing about tennis
     
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  24. T1000

    T1000 Hall of Fame

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    I would've been more interesting to see them play more times on hard court. the h2h would be a lot closer than it is now
     
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  25. veroniquem

    veroniquem Bionic Poster

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    To the op: yes I definitely think Nadal has improved more than Fed's game has changed.
     
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  26. veroniquem

    veroniquem Bionic Poster

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    Not a given at all since Nadal won 2 out of the 3 finals they did play, lost only the first one and even in that one was extremely close to winning. I think Fed was very lucky not to meet Nadal in more hard court finals as he may not have won as many tournaments then.
     
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  27. Nadal_Freak

    Nadal_Freak Banned

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    Indoor hardcourts he was 0-2. But Indian Wells, Miami, Toronto, and Australian Open suit Nadal more than Federer
     
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  28. Bloodshed

    Bloodshed Professional

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    Ah yes! I remember that match.

    This was when I was Fedtart to the extreme and when I thought Nadal was a no good punk trying to dethrone Federer.

    Obviously if it was a best 2 out of 3, Nadal would of won bar none since he was leading 2 sets and a break.

    Once Nadal got the break in the 3rd set, I got soo mad that I stopped watching the match the min Federer slammed his racquet on the ground (which proved to be his last time doing this until his Miami match vs Djokovic this year) because I figured Nadal would of won this match in the longrun.

    Little did I knew Fed would of made a comeback and win this in 5 sets.

    Fed should seriously watch this match OVER and OVER again if he wants to beat Nadal.

    And as far as Nadal goes, Miami proved to be a cursed tournament for him to win since he always came close of winning yet never he captured it.
     
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  29. 380pistol

    380pistol Banned

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    Simple Fed was at his peak and Nadal wasn't. Roger had 4 slams and was #1, Nadal was #29 and had zero slams. Nadal has improved his 2nd serve (and serve overall) giving Roger less opportunities to attack it. Nadal will attack Fed's backhand and Roger has no answer. Nadal's backhand has improved, as well as his net play.

    Roger's net play has diminished over the years, and Nadal as improved his game on hardcourts. Nadal is a bad match up for Roger no matter how you look at it, and has improved overall since then.
     
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  30. Blinkism

    Blinkism Legend

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    I was going to rip into tennis-hero's arguments but it's been done.

    Great job, guys!
     
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  31. TheNatural

    TheNatural Legend

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    If that was the case Fed has had some lucky breaks! If Nadal didn't get ripped off in that match and didn't bust his knee in the Wimbledon 07 finals, his record would be even more impressive. It would be:

    • 15-4 h2h v Fed, 13-2 in finals v Fed, 6-1 in Slam finals and 6-1 in MS finals v Fed.
    • 7 slams (7 won 1 loss), 16 MS titles(16 wins 3 losses)
    • 38 titles (38 wins out of 45 finals)

    :shock::shock:

     
    Last edited: May 10, 2009
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  32. <3tennis!!!

    <3tennis!!! Semi-Pro

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    yea dude we get you hate federer. no need to magnify it in every single post?
     
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  33. Dutch-Guy

    Dutch-Guy Legend

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    This tennis-Zero must be on something.
     
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  34. tennis-hero

    tennis-hero Banned

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    Nadal isn't a top 20 in the GOAT list

    players like stitch, krajicek, Sampras etc (anyone who can attack the net)

    would have bagled him on real grass

    on clay he wouldn't have won in 91, 92, 93,94 95, 96, 97

    In 96, the courts were playing fast, so even Andy roddick would have bagled Nadal at RG

    in 97 Keurten would have given him a huge battle, and Keurten wouldn't have had a problem with his one dimensional tactic of hitting to the backhand with his percentage play

    in 98 it would he would have been pushed

    he would win in 99, and probably lose in 2000

    so in the 90s Nadal would have 2 RG's if he was lucky

    he wouldn't get past the first few rounds on real grass

    and at the USOPEN he'd have been raped

    his only shot would have been to enter the AO in disguise and hope that Agassi and Sampras didn't decide to brutalise him there

    for a possible 2 slam wonder, Nadal gets way too much hype

    his defensive brand of tennis is just a rip off of borg

    But borg did everything 10 times better
     
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  35. LurkingGod

    LurkingGod Rookie

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    None of what you said above have happened in the REAL world so your point is?:shock:

    Nadal is yet to make the top million of the GOAT list because we need a player's whole carreer to judge it. The same way you wouldn't nominate a good apprentice for a CEO.

    And unless any scientists can come up with a time machine all these imaginative matches between Nadal and any players from the past will never happen so saying these player would bagel or bully him is as valid as saying Ostin Power would beat Wolverine.

    History doesn't care about what would happen in another space and time. Can we start discussing what happen in reality or do I need to go to sleep so I can talk about these match-ups from the dream world?
     
    Last edited: May 10, 2009
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  36. okdude1992

    okdude1992 Hall of Fame

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    I know nothing about tennis? ok troll number 2. I said nothing whatsoever that should offend you and you try and insult me? whatever buddy. tennis hero is a nadal hater. anyone who says its easy to beat nadal doesn't know what there talking about. sure the idea is simple but doing it is hard. I would think this is pretty obvious...and that roddick would bagel him at rg? thats absurd. PERIOD.

    edit: oh and calling clay the weakest form of all tennis doesn't come across as to intelligent either now does it
     
    Last edited: May 11, 2009
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  37. OJ ROD

    OJ ROD Semi-Pro

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    Federer's game is a threat to Nadal, is just federer's mind isn't right now. Nadal kept hungry and working hard and improved, but that observation that the OP made about it being basically the same match that we see nowadays, it really just shows me that federer hasn't made a mental adjusment for Nadal, that's really all. They will always be dangerous to each other, but as long as Federer delays or forgoes the mental adjusment, he will always be on the lower end of the H2H.
     
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  38. AllCourt

    AllCourt Rookie

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    i wouldn't mind being as "bad" of a player as nadal and winning 3/4 majors, along with being #1.

    honestly, even if his playing style is ugly...it gets the job done, no?

    i feel like this is the same thing that happened when roddick had his short stint at #1...everyone talked about how "he is nothing but a serve" blah blah. but hey...got him to #1 and got him a slam title so whatever it takes to get you the results right?
     
    #38
  39. dem331

    dem331 New User

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    BORING .........
     
    #39
  40. Clay lover

    Clay lover Hall of Fame

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    tennis-hero is obviously being sarcastic, just not a very good one at that
     
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  41. MichaelNadal

    MichaelNadal Bionic Poster

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    How impressive is this point? :shock:

    http://youtu.be/LzpoNmNZIXk#t=18m35s

    Not to mention the entire video. One of the best highlight videos I've had the pleasure of watching.
     
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2014
    #41
  42. Nathaniel_Near

    Nathaniel_Near Talk Tennis Guru

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    Relax folks, ...
    Great match. I miss the 5-set finals.

    AT LEAST make the YEC's Final a 5-set final... come on.
     
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  43. 125downthemiddle

    125downthemiddle Hall of Fame

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    Very good, but not the best between the 2. 3rd behind Wimby '08 and...

    Their very finest match imo was Rome '06 Final...it was absolutely the great RG final they never had.
     
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  44. Steve0904

    Steve0904 G.O.A.T.

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    AO 09 and Wimby 07 are better than this match too. This ones not bad but it's not that close to the top of the list.
     
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  45. Vegito

    Vegito Professional

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    Deleted post.
     
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2015
    #45
  46. Vegito

    Vegito Professional

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    ---------------
     
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2014
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  47. abmk

    abmk G.O.A.T.

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    nah, nothing that impressive about the rally as a whole.

    final shot by rafa was very good, but that's about it.
     
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  48. abmk

    abmk G.O.A.T.

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    Rome 06 F
    Wim 07 F
    AO 09 F
    Wim 08 F
    YEC 06 SF

    are IMO their top 5 matches in that order quality wise
     
    #48
  49. Gizo

    Gizo Hall of Fame

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    A very entertaining match. Nadal was an exciting young teenage sensation at the time, and was on a 15 match winning streak after winning the 2nd and 3rd titles of his career at Costa Do Sauipe and Acapulco. He had looked in great form throughout that tournament as well, only dropping 1 set en-route to the final in his R4 match against Ljubicic. The sport really needed a new challenger for Federer at the time, and Nadal gave us that.

    It was great to see the young Nadal really taking the match to the dominant world no. 1 Federer. Federer was muttering to himself a lot during those first 3 sets, and was getting frustrated and threw his racket to the ground.

    Nadal won the 1st set easily, and he fought back from 2-5 down to win the 2nd set on a tiebreak. He was 4-1 ahead in the 3rd set before Federer broke back. When he was ahead 4-3 and love 30 on Federer's serve, Federer hit a forehand that was clearly long but somehow wasn't called out. That would have given Nadal 3 break points for the opportunity to serve for the match. He was then 5-3 ahead in the tiebreak and 2 points away from victory, but Federer won the next 4 points to take the set, the 2nd of which he won with a forehand winner down the line. Federer then took control in the 4th and 5th sets.

    Of course the year before at Miami in their first match against each other, the 17 year old Nadal had thumped Federer 6-3 6-3 in the 3rd round. He didn't face a single break point that day, posting an 81% 1st serve percentage and winning 13 out of his 14 points at the net. Federer had been recovering from sunstroke and was very lucky to beat Davydenko in his previous match.

    In terms of their best matches, I think that their 2006 Monte-Carlo final was, very underrated, high quality match. They both played well that day and had good winner-unforced error ratios for a tough 4 set clay court match. In fact if you compare their Monte-Carlo and Rome finals that year, Federer hit 65 winners in Monte-Carlo and 70 in Rome, while Nadal hit 44 winners in Monte-Carlo and 46 in Rome, so they both had better winner per set ratios in their Monte-Carlo final. Also Nadal hit 39 UEs in 4 sets in Monte-Carlo, and 60 UEs in 5 sets in Rome.
     
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2014
    #49
  50. Carsomyr

    Carsomyr Hall of Fame

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    I'm mostly impressed by how that the rally didn't end 15+ strokes sooner off a Fed shank. Even I forgot how good he was on defense and keeping the ball in the stadium. It was a high quality match, but I'd rank Rome, their two Wimby finals, and their AO match as better.
     
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