2012 4.0 Nationals. Who's going?

Discussion in 'Adult League & Tournament Talk' started by kelawai, Aug 20, 2012.

  1. kelawai

    kelawai Rookie

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    Very Nice.
     
    #51
  2. JoelDali

    JoelDali G.O.A.T.

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    USTA pen glory for all the 4.5 slambaggarz.

    :D
     
    #52
  3. Topaz

    Topaz Legend

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    Awwww, you guys had a great run last year, too, though!

    Between you guys last year and them this year...Mid-Atlantic seems to be a 4.0 stronghouse! LOL.

    They did it! Now I need to convince my partner to come back to 7.5 combo mixed...after winning Nationals...I think I may need to bribe with beer! How else are we going to beat you Downs???? ;)

    We need to all get our tri-level teams to Indian Wells, too!
     
    #53
  4. downs_chris

    downs_chris Professional

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    did you end up going with eastern?

    haha...we will be ready for you next time!! we are bringing the big guns!! i'll tell your 7.5 partner to take some time off -- he's had enough tennis this year :)
     
    #54
  5. kelawai

    kelawai Rookie

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    #55
  6. KoaUka

    KoaUka Rookie

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    For the mens, looks like it was:
    1) Mid-Atlantic (Virginia)
    2) Inter-mountain

    (Then, whoever could dump harder...) :)
    3) Florida
    4) Hawaii
     
    #56
  7. dennis10is

    dennis10is Banned

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    OMG!! OMG!!

    4.0 Nationals. My brain is not big enough to count how many hours and gallons of blood, sweat, and tears a person, no a hero, has to spend, to achieve such Olympian perfection.

    I'm not worthy to lick the sweats of their towels.

    I'm not religious but I do have altars with pictures of the local 4.0s and on the nights of the full moon I offer them human sacrifices so that they can be strong and get to Nationals.
     
    #57
  8. JoelDali

    JoelDali G.O.A.T.

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    Poast of the Century.
     
    #58
  9. KoaUka

    KoaUka Rookie

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    lol, a bit over the top? I guess you didn't make it :)
     
    #59
  10. Topaz

    Topaz Legend

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    Its hard to believe...but I think he's more tennis crazy than I am.

    Big guns? So..what...last time was your small guns? You guys recruited in July, and all the way from Lynchburg!!!!!!!

    You should spend Veteran's Day in Richmond, don't you think? ;)
     
    #60
  11. F L O B B E R

    F L O B B E R Rookie

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    And a heartfelt golf-clap to this years winner of the sandbaggers tourney.

    Or not. *yawn*
     
    #61
  12. robert

    robert Rookie

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    Who is going this year?
     
    #62
  13. J_R_B

    J_R_B Hall of Fame

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    #63
  14. robert

    robert Rookie

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    Is player's party good? Or should we just skip it?
     
    #64
  15. coyote

    coyote Rookie

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    You should go... Not much to lose. Leave it isn't fun. It has been several years since i have been to the big dance but some of the women players were nice... Most were not but there were a few. :)
     
    #65
  16. J_R_B

    J_R_B Hall of Fame

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    And who won two matches at 18s Sectionals today? 4.0 GOAT!!!!!
     
    #66
  17. J_R_B

    J_R_B Hall of Fame

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    #67
  18. maggmaster

    maggmaster Hall of Fame

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    Congrats! Go for it man!
     
    #68
  19. goober

    goober Legend

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    Wait a minute, this can't be. I thought you were rated by TW forum as 3.0 based on your videos. :twisted:
     
    #69
  20. Nostradamus

    Nostradamus G.O.A.T.

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    so this is the definition of the Pusher. Pusher all tennis players are afraid to play against.:)
     
    #70
  21. J_R_B

    J_R_B Hall of Fame

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    I'm now offiically a 3.0 sandbagging at 4.0. LOL.
     
    #71
  22. schmke

    schmke Professional

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    Congrats!

    On this subject, there was a 4.0 team in another section that I was helping with reports that played Sectionals this weekend and didn't manage to advance, losing out on the sets lost tie-breaker. See http://computerratings.blogspot.com/2013/08/more-teams-advance-to-usta-nationals.html.

    As many of you know, the current tie-breaker within flights/sub-flights is team win/loss, courts won/lost, and then sets lost. It is not uncommon to have two teams tie at 2-1 or 3-1 in a sub-flight and need to go to these tie-breakers. In this case, the team I was helping was 1-1 going into their last match playing the 2-0 team and needed to win. They did, but just 3-2, and that put both teams at 2-1 and 9-6 on courts, so it went to the sets lost tie-breaker which they lost.

    Now some have said this is unfair, the team beat the other team head-to-head so they should get to advance. Unfortunately, the USTA rules have been different, but I am told a USTA official said that may be changing next year.

    So has anyone else heard this, that head-to-head will become the first tie-breaker next year?
     
    #72
  23. J_R_B

    J_R_B Hall of Fame

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    Not quite, head to head will become the second tiebreaker. Currently, it is court count then least sets lost then least games lost then h2h as a last resort. Next year, they are getting rid of the stupid sets and games lost and going court count then straight to h2h. I can see valid arguments for both court count and h2h, so I won't opine on that, but I am glad that sets and games will no longer be part of it.
     
    #73
  24. schmke

    schmke Professional

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    Yeah, I didn't mean to say they were skipping court count, but introducing h2h before sets lost.

    The sets lost should still be a factor IMHO, just after h2h. This means when 2 teams tie, h2h will decide it. But when you get the 3 teams at 2-1 tie, then h2h won't decide it and sets lost still comes in to play and I think this makes sense.

    The stupid tie-breaker is the games lost. I wrote about this before (see http://computerratings.blogspot.com/2012/07/usta-league-rules-for-breaking-ties.html) but you are better off losing a set 6-0 than 7-6.
     
    #74
  25. sam_p

    sam_p Professional

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    I am fairly sure I know which sectional you are talking about. It does seem unfair that a team can lose to the second place team and advance with the same overall record. On the other hand, they shouldn't have lost to the other weaker team earlier in the weekend...
     
    #75
  26. OrangePower

    OrangePower Hall of Fame

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    Of course the games lost thing is silly, so I'm glad that this will become less important. But I'm not sure that I would use H2H before sets lost.

    As we all know, how lineups happen to stack and match up against the other team has a lot to do with it, and there is some degree of luck involved in that. By the time you get deep into playoffs, all the captains are skillful and unpredictable, so looking at singles for example, it comes down to 50/50 in terms of who plays who.

    One of the advantages of a group round robin format is that the more matches played, the more the luck/matchup factor is reduced - as opposed to a single elimination playoff for example. So I think that sets lost over the course of the round robin play might be a better indicator of overall relative team strength than a H2H (after overall court wins that is).

    Not a big deal though. Bottom line is the best teams take care of business by winning all their matches :)
     
    #76
  27. schmke

    schmke Professional

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    You are absolutely right on this last point. However, there is a side effect of that related to the sets lost vs h2h.

    Say a team has 12 players rostered and the last few are good but not great. If a team has to worry about winning every court and every set, the incentive is to only play their best guys and the last 4 just sit on the bench. If a team only can primarily worry about just winning the team match, losing a court or set or two isn't the end of the world and the last 4 can get to play a match or two.
     
    #77
  28. OrangePower

    OrangePower Hall of Fame

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    I agree with you in spirit...

    I've captained several playoff teams, and have always been conflicted between playing the strongest guys vs giving everyone a chance to play. And it's always been a very situational decision.

    In reality, if our primary goal is to win the team match, then we have to put our strongest lineup out there, regardless of the advancement tiebreak rules. That's because it's impossible to predict how the other team will arrange their lineup, plus as we know, anything can happen on any given day - players have off days, injuries, etc. So the mindset has to be to try win every court, regardless.

    On the other hand if the team is not super strong and is unlikely to advance far, then I would just play everyone anyway, regardless.

    Sorry to hijack the thread - back to patting J_R_B on the back for his most excellent sandbag season :)
     
    #78
  29. J_R_B

    J_R_B Hall of Fame

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    Thank you. This is dedicated to all the hackers on here with huge superiority complexes who simultaeously call my video 3.0 at best while complaining that only out-of-level sandbaggers get to play in nationals. May their heads exploode in confusion...

    And in case anyone thinks I just captained a team of sandbaggers to glory, I am 9-2 in the playoffs this year, including 4-0 at the sectionals this weekend and winning the clinching court yesterday.
     
    #79
  30. goober

    goober Legend

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    Yes but wait until you play the sandbaggers from socal and Fl, because the 4.0s there are 4.5 everywhere else even possibly 5.0s in some sections. :) Never mind that Middle states are defending national champs and Socal and FLorida haven't been in the top 4 in a long time it seems at 4.0 Mens.
     
    #80
  31. J_R_B

    J_R_B Hall of Fame

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    LOL. That was Mid-Atlantic last year. The last time Middle States won was 2011 at 4.5.

    Also, we got Missouri Valley, Southwest, and Hawaii in our flight, so we have to play your sandbaggers.
     
    #81
  32. OrangePower

    OrangePower Hall of Fame

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    Based on the video you posted, you look like an extremely solid but not spectacular 4.0. And I mean that as a compliment not an insult! Not a sandbagger, but it's fun teasing you;-)

    I expect you will be bumped; also expect you will have some adjustments to make in order to win at 4.5. I know a few guys with similar styles to you who were bumped from 4.0 to 4.5. Those that were able to further develop weapons other than consistency have done fine, those that rely primarily on consistency and smart play struggle against the more aggressive 4.5's.
     
    #82
  33. J_R_B

    J_R_B Hall of Fame

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    I have been trying to get bumped for years. I expect this may finally be the year, but who knows. I have no expectations of success at 4.5. I'll just do what I can and have fun against good opposition. I've been playing a lot more doubles the past two years. It'll be easier to compete in doubles at 4.5 anyway.
     
    #83
  34. robert

    robert Rookie

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    Is this 18+ or 40+ league?

    I noticed that 40+ league is weaker than 18+ league. The team, which won our 40+ Sectional, didn't get in the 18+ district playoff.

     
    #84
  35. Nostradamus

    Nostradamus G.O.A.T.

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    Hey, Watch that footfault call. it is deadly. could end your career
     
    #85
  36. J_R_B

    J_R_B Hall of Fame

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    40+. 40+ by definition has to be weaker than 18+ since it is made up of a subset of the 18+ players.
     
    #86
  37. J_R_B

    J_R_B Hall of Fame

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    LOL. There was one match in sectionals where footfaults were an issue. There was one of the five(?) roving officials that was calling ffs. She came to our court, called a couple on our opponents and then left. She came back later when my partner was serving in a tb and I went back to him and said "watch your footfaults" (I don't think he regularly footfaults anyway). He served fine and then gave the balls to the opponents to serve. He was promptly called for a footfault again. Our team later said that his footfaults were pretty egregious.
     
    #87
  38. dizzlmcwizzl

    dizzlmcwizzl Hall of Fame

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    Congrats on Nats .... I am jealous.

    Early Start ratings just came out ... you still are a 4.0 as of now, but playing in nationals and your efforts in sectionals I am sure will give you quite a lift.

    Plus, I seem to think they avoid publishing early start bump ups for the folks going to nationals.
     
    #88
  39. coyote

    coyote Rookie

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    Texas 4.0 is stacked. Can never guarantee a win but they will not embarrass themselves.
     
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  40. J_R_B

    J_R_B Hall of Fame

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    Five guys on my roster were bumped in early start. Three were obvious, one is not surprising, and one is a little bit of a head scratcher. There are more people (including myself) that I'm surprised weren't bumped. If the early starts hold, I'm going to have "move up, split up" issues next year.
     
    #90
  41. lostinamerica

    lostinamerica Semi-Pro

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    What I noticed is the 40s league is deeper and overall better competition but the ringers are at 18+. In 40s, we saw no awful teams but no guys that just blow you away. In 18s, some teams are just awful. There are far more 18s teams. The 40s teams tend to concentrate into fewer teams but all are solid. In 18s there are some serious out of level guys but less concentrated good teams.
     
    #91
  42. CrocodileRock

    CrocodileRock Rookie

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    They rolled over us 5-0, although some of the matches were close. They should do very well at nationals.
     
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  43. Ronaldo

    Ronaldo G.O.A.T.

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    Still have High School players in the 18s.
     
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  44. J_R_B

    J_R_B Hall of Fame

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    I think this was my experience as well. There were 11 teams in our 18s league and only 4 in the 40s. Every match in the 40s league was a battle. In 18s, there were maybe 2 or 3 tough ones, but a bunch of softballs, too. My team came in second in 18s and first in 40s, although the other top team in the league was first in 18s and second in 40s, so I just had the better older players and they had the better younger players. That team in the 40s league was better than either team we played in the district playoffs and all but one of the teams we played at sectionals, so our league competition really prepared us well for the playoffs.
     
    #94
  45. mikeler

    mikeler G.O.A.T.

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    One of the opposing teams commented that our 40+, 4.5 team would have beaten the 18+, 4.5 team that is going to Nationals. I find that a little hard to believe but maybe he is considering our two 5.0s would be included when he said that.
     
    #95
  46. coyote

    coyote Rookie

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    My 40s team definitely would not have made nationals. The team that made Nats out of Houston would have smoked our 40s. Yet, there are few easy matches at 40s. Most of the time 4.0 flight play is pretty bad. You will have 2 or 3 weeks that can be interesting. A

    My 40s team might have made sectionals. I have 10 players that played at 18s sectionals and acquitted themselves well... as long as they didn't play Houston. :)
     
    #96
  47. sam_p

    sam_p Professional

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    There is no doubt that the presence of the 5.0's would be a huge factor. In a five line match that should give the 40+ team an advantage at two lines (assuming a 5.0 singles and a 5.0 doubles player). If the 40+ team has another strong 4.5 singles player or a couple of good doubles players then there is no reason that the 40+ team wouldn't win most of the time.
     
    #97
  48. goober

    goober Legend

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    It is not really that 4.0 flight play is bad, it is that top team stack their rosters with upper level 4.0s, out of level self rates and 4.5s that have 4.0 ratings through ratings manipulation. The regular teams in most leagues do not do this. They just have regular 4.0s. If there were no such thing as playoffs/sectionals and nationals, most of these top teams would actually be where they belong in 4.5 since there would be no point to go through all these shenanigans. If you complain that that regular season play is too low for you, your team is at the wrong level. But I understand, the lure of the plastic trophy and nationals T-shirt is a strong one:)
     
    #98
  49. mikeler

    mikeler G.O.A.T.

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    Who cares about the trophy, I just want an excuse to travel across the country. :)
     
    #99
  50. smithy173

    smithy173 New User

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    Hey JRB where did you play your sectionals.We played in Schenectady NY.The Metro Team from Queens NY won it.This was in the 40+.4.0
     

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