2012 Year End Ratings

Discussion in 'Adult League & Tournament Talk' started by SuperLotto, Oct 28, 2011.

  1. SuperLotto

    SuperLotto New User

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    Is there a cut off date for matches played that will impact 2012 ratings? I thought last year the cut off was 10/31 for calculations which came out end of November. Also, will there be a big bump this year. Has anyone heard anything'
     
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  2. dizzlmcwizzl

    dizzlmcwizzl Hall of Fame

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    I heard that this was part of the USTA's three year plan to re adjust the rating levels ... but last year was year two and we did not see major re-adjustments.

    I would expect less than 10% in each level will be moved up and few will be moved down.
     
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  3. dizzlmcwizzl

    dizzlmcwizzl Hall of Fame

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    I think, but do not know, that all matches played for the 2011 season count for the year end 2011 rating. So any nationals event between now and the end of the year count towards the 2011 year end rating. But any 2011 league that counts towards your 2011 rating should be over by now.

    If you are in leagues that are technically for the 2012 season I do not think they count towards your rating 2011 rating.
     
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  4. lostinamerica

    lostinamerica Semi-Pro

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    What all counts in the ratings? I heard Combo does not count. DOes the 40 and over count? Does Tri-Level count? Is it only league?
     
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  5. SuperLotto

    SuperLotto New User

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    I think all but mixed count. Mixed has its own rating. If you play mixed only you will get a rating with an M next to it.
     
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  6. dizzlmcwizzl

    dizzlmcwizzl Hall of Fame

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    Districts have leaway in what they count or not.

    If you play adult or senior tennis generally mixed, combo, tri level and tournies do not count.

    If you play mixed exclusively ... you can get an M rating which is not much better than a self rate. Likewise tourney exclusive can get you a T rating which is also not very helpfull.
     
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  7. ian2

    ian2 Semi-Pro

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    Surprisingly, it's quite difficult to answer this question. As dizzlmcwizzl mentioned, what counts and what doesn't count is up to individual districts. In general:

    - mixed counts into it's own M rating. A player will only get this rating if he/she played mixed exclusively... or more precisely, if player played no more than two (or maybe three?) "eligible" non-mixed matches.
    - tournaments count in some districts but not all. In districts where tournaments count, results from Age, Open, etc. are included into NTRP calculations.
    - there is a cut-off date and it is (I believe) Oct 31. However, in some districts (the ones with "Early Start?) the cut-off date is much earlier... around end of August?

    dizzlmcwizzl, I'm curious: why do you consider T (tournament-exclusive) rating "not very helpful"? I feel it's as "valid" as C rating. I agree though that M (mixed-exclusive) is a different animal...
     
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  8. J_R_B

    J_R_B Hall of Fame

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    A T-Rating is not very helpful because if you decide to play league, a T rating doesn't exempt you from either self-rating or from a 3 strike disqualification.

    Combo never counts towards a C rating because it is a sectional competition, not national, so there is no way to equate the ratings across sections.
     
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  9. g4driver

    g4driver Hall of Fame

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    JRB,

    I was told my our single's league coordinator USTA Single's doesn't count either. I don't know if USTA's Single's as a National Tournament or not.

    I'm curious if you know if Adult Single's counts toward a your NTRP year-end ratings or not.
     
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  10. Islandtennis

    Islandtennis Rookie

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    The Districts do not decide what counts or not, the Sections do. The only difference between Sections that I am aware of is in regards to "T" ratings. Generally the only "League" that counts (besides mixed exclusive) is what is known in the Southern section as the Spring League.

    The October deadline is because the National Playoffs have just finished up for the "Spring" league. This needs to be finished before benchmark ratings can be factored in.

    G4, Singles League does not contribute to ratings in the Southern Section.
     
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  11. ian2

    ian2 Semi-Pro

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    Thanks, I didn't know that. I guess the rationale here is that someone might be playing way "up" (or "down") in tournaments, and therefore a "true" rating might not be established?
     
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  12. ian2

    ian2 Semi-Pro

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    Right... Like "Intermountain Section" vs. "Colorado District". Thanks for clarification!
     
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  13. dizzlmcwizzl

    dizzlmcwizzl Hall of Fame

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    This ^^ (10 char)
     
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  14. J_R_B

    J_R_B Hall of Fame

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    You'd have to get a definitive answer from a USTA representative, but I think it's because of the variability of the tournaments compared to league play. In other words, tournament directors can let anyone play any division that they want. League play has very strict rules regarding self-rating and eligibility controlled by a small number of people that can make sure the rules are at least applied uniformly (if not fairly, LOL). In addition, there are no "national" 4.0 tournaments and in general (at least around here), there are far fewer NTRP tournaments than league matches, so it is more difficult to balance the ratings across sections.
     
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  15. asked_answered

    asked_answered Rookie

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    In Texas, we have three league seasons. (Summer is doubles only, though.) From past research (obsessing, really) on my part, I understand that the spring and summer results count toward year-end computer ratings, as do fall league results through October 31st. The tournament results of league players are also taken into consideration, although they aren't weighted very heavily.
     
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  16. ian2

    ian2 Semi-Pro

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    J_R_B, I don't think it's possible to get a definitive answer, because there is no definitive strategy in the first place, as evidenced by the fact that each Section can apply their own rules. But I agree with your point about stricter rules and more uniformity in league play as compared to tournaments.

    As for balancing the ratings across sections: indeed USTA attempts to do this via national playoffs, and in the end it's possible that 4.0 in SoCal = 4.0 MN - but not due "rebalancing". It's quite obvious that the idea is based on faulty assumptions that a) teams that make it to the playoffs represent an overall level of play in their section, and b) a very small statistical sample (national payoffs) could be extrapolated down to each section and ultimately each player. The former may or may not be true, and the latter is patently bad statistics.
     
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  17. cll30

    cll30 Rookie

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    Not sure I understand why this would be. Sometimes I've played against the same players in a tournament that I've played in league. Seems like the computer could sort all of that out.
     
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  18. asked_answered

    asked_answered Rookie

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    I'm guessing that it's a general rule applied to all tournament results due to programming challenges associated with unrated players and players who only participate in tournaments.
     
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  19. dcdoorknob

    dcdoorknob Hall of Fame

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    Ok, just for clarification, lets say I played 3 leagues this year, adult 3.5, tri-level doubles, and mixed. Am I correct in thinking that only the adult league matches will count towards my rating? The tri-level doubles and mixed matches (even post-season matches) have no weight whatsoever for my rating?
     
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  20. asked_answered

    asked_answered Rookie

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    Mixed won't count, but I don't know about tri-level. The tri-level results might count, if you were on a 3.5 to 4.5 team (no self-rated players allowed on such teams).
     
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  21. dizzlmcwizzl

    dizzlmcwizzl Hall of Fame

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    Most likely yes ... this is what I have read before for most sections but each section can be different.

    Just to confuse the issue a little ... I have heard rumors that our section was going to begin counting mixed into the formula but that is purely speculation and I have not seen anything official about this.

    The USTA purposely keeps details about the formula it uses secret. Perhaps because it a proprietary formula and they worry about competitors, or perhaps they want to keep players from manipulating the system. In any event, there used to be considerably more official information on-line but I am seeing less and less official communication from the USTA about their system. Most of the information you get here is speculative at this point because they guard their formula very tightly and recently there have been some dramatic changes.
     
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  22. Angle Queen

    Angle Queen Professional

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    FWIW, here in Richmond (we're in the Virginia District of the Mid-Atlantic Section), our Singles League Special Notes specifically says the Singles League results count towards your NTRP. When I try to find a specific citation at either the District or Section level, I come up empty. Grand result: whether a particular league's/season's results count towards NTRP depend.

    Personally, it doesn't matter to me whether a particular league counts. Either I'm gonna play in it (and play to the best of my ability)...or I'm sitting it out (usually for logistical or monetary reasons).
     
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  23. Topaz

    Topaz Legend

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    AQ, the singles league counts in NOVA, too. Makes sense, since we are in the same districts. Singles districts is in fact this weekend...I'm bummed that my team didn't make it.
     
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  24. g4driver

    g4driver Hall of Fame

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    The USTA is about as non-standardized of a large organization that I have ever encountered.

    Standardization would make the USTA a better organization IMO.

    What if one area played all matches with 8 game pro sets or banned self-rated players from playoffs? What is one area counts singles ratings to your NTRP and another doesn't?

    The fact that the USTA fails to have the same rules across the country is embarrassing IMO. I am glad my profession doesn't operate like the USTA. ;)
     
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2011
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  25. OrangePower

    OrangePower Hall of Fame

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    What do you see as the value of standardization across areas?

    99% of players only ever play within their section. There is just a small % that get to mingle with players from another section at Nationals, or that live close enough to a neighboring section to play in two sections.

    So for the huge majority of players, what impact does it have on them if other sections have different rules / regulations?

    On the other hand, having different rules / season calendars / etc, allows each section to tailor things based on the weather / preferences / demographics of its residents.

    Kinda like every state can have different laws, tax codes, etc.
     
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  26. OrangePower

    OrangePower Hall of Fame

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    Sheesh... with that attitude, how are you ever going to manage your rating? :)

    Better take it back, or you'll lose your membership to this forum.
     
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  27. g4driver

    g4driver Hall of Fame

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    OrangePower

    The USTA is a National Organization, not a state, or sectional or local.

    Standardization at the highest level makes all the rules the same for everyone. I am not advocating limiting local leagues from have rules and tailoring the game for the communities and players, but rather having the USTA have a minimum list of procedures that every section and local community must follow.

    I have played USTA in four states. The lack of standardization means for me: in one state my USTA singles matches count toward my NTRP, but in another state they don't. Why? I have no idea. Neither does anyone at the USTA it seems. :confused: There is no good answer from the USTA. Someone just thought it isn't a good idea to count a player vs player match in SC, when they do in VA. This makes no sense whatsoever. But it is standard with the USTA. ;)

    I fly airplanes for a living. I fly with pilots who are based in several different states. Thankfully we work off the same standards. The California pilots have a few more taxes taken out due for things the rest of our guys don't have to pay for, so that is similar to a local league rule I guess.

    When flying however, I know what to expect from the California pilot and he knows what to expect from me as an East Coast pilot. We might fly one flight together from Seattle to Denver and never see each other again. But during that one flight, I don't have to ask this guy anything about what he plans to do. I know what standard he will follow.

    Standardization puts everyone on the same sheet of music. In my line of work, that standardization makes flying the backbone of safety. How does that relate to tennis? Well, if the USTA makes a series of mistakes, there isn't any metal bent or lives lost, so what the USTA does or doesn't do will not affect the potential loss of life. But what the USTA could learn from organizations that do consistently apply the same rules around the country to their constituents is a much more informed group of players who know what to expect.

    Here's an example that really made me think the USTA's current system is broken:

    It's complete garbage that a player in one state can register for the USTA with a new name, and a new USTA number, one or two levels below his current NTRP, win matches on a local team, advance to the playoffs and continuing winning, then go to state and keep winning, before someone notices he really doens't play like a 4.0. Then when it is discovered he is a really a 5.0 with a different USTA number and another name, none of his wins are vacated, and the teams he beat keep the losses. National rules would fix this type of garbage. This is the kind of standard that is needed. This happend in Florida according to some of the posters on this forum. I have no knowledge of this, but if true, it is pathetic, the USTA didn't vacate this guys wins and ban him from USTA play for at least two years.

    As far as each local area tailoring tennis to their local communities, there nothing wrong with that at all. But how does having a standard applied consistently hurt anyone?

    If the USTA made a set of rules and regulation at the National level, and those rules were followed by each Section then by local communities, you would not have one state with ESRs, another without ESRs. You wouldn't have some states counting Single's leagues and other not. The grievance procedures would be the same everywhere.

    I've worked in the military and for two large profitable companies (one international and one national), and I never seen the lack of standardization that I see in the USTA. It's just my opinion that the USTA needs to apply some of the same major decisions nationally, not just by Section.

    ESRs? Why do some states use them and other don't?
    NTRP? Why do some states count this and others don't?
    Grievance procedures? Not totally familiar, but it seems this have so many flavors it they might give Baskin Robbins and good run for their money.

    I don't think I am asking for the moon. Do you think I am off-base with my thinking?


    Sorry for the rant in advance. Not sleepy tonight. :(
     
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  28. g4driver

    g4driver Hall of Fame

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    Orange Power, I don't manage my rating either. I play the best I can play in practice and in matches. If I'm bumped, great, if I'm not bumped, great. ;) Tennis has many options regardless of a rating. It's nice to have options. ;)

    Maybe it's the fact that I've been flying for 20+ years and like to know the rules. ;)
     
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  29. Cindysphinx

    Cindysphinx G.O.A.T.

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    USTA does have national standards for league play. They are lengthy and involved, IMHO.

    Why do we need more, exactly?

    Anyway, if someone is going to deliberately cheat (as in the example you gave of a player creating a new identity for league play), having more detailed national rules will make no difference.
     
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  30. g4driver

    g4driver Hall of Fame

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    Cindy, I am not talking about league play. You misread my post.

    I am speaking directly about governing rules of what counts toward NTRPs, penalties for known cheating like in the example I gave above. The USTA is certainly NOT standardized across the nation in these areas.

    How would you feel if your team had lost a match before you got to Nationals by one court, and the person who beat you was really a 4.5? So you as the Captain file a grievance, but the Sectional USTA doesn't vacate the wins of the cheating player, and their team still went to Nationals and your team didn't. That is the type of standardization that could easily be solved with a National Standard.
     
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2011
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  31. jk175d

    jk175d Semi-Pro

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    that is correct.... and nuts. Why singles league doesn't count is beyond me. going head to head with guys at the same level, what could be a better guage?
     
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  32. kylebarendrick

    kylebarendrick Professional

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    The different local leagues and calendars are exactly why different sections handle NTRP calculations differently. For example, ESRs are only necessary if you start a league that has a championship in the next year before that year's ratings come out. So if you have a "fall" adult league in 2011 that feeds into the 2012 nationals, you need an ESR.

    Some of the other stuff makes no sense to me, but there is logic behind those decisions...
     
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  33. g4driver

    g4driver Hall of Fame

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    Thanks kylebaredrick. I didn't know that. It makes sense.

    Since the ratings are coming out soon, I wanted to use the ESRs to see how many players the team will lose, and options for the those players getting bumped. Getting bumped on 3 Dec 10, and trying to find a new team in less than 30 days sucked for my older guys last year. Last year the ratings came out so late in Dec guys had less than 30 days before the new spring team starting registering.

    It's also useful for a team that loses two-three players via bumps as it's nice to know if you can find two to three guys to step in. As a Captain, it sucks to lose your best singles player and best doubles players. The guys who don't play as much see it as a chance to play more USTA matches. These are same guys who only play during a league match, never a drill or practice to actually improve. I see it as a great way to lose more matches next year since these guys don't practice, if the Captain can't replace his best players. ;)

    I don't Captain a team so two or three of my weakest players can play more USTA matches if the strongest guys get bumped. :shock: Shocking I know. The best players practice on their own, they are steady and win more. Amazing how that works. ;)
     
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2011
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  34. g4driver

    g4driver Hall of Fame

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    So a "3.5 Self-Rated player" can play 4.0 Singles in the upstate winning against other 4.0 singles players 0 & 1, 1 & 1 and 2 & 1 as a "3.5", yet still play 3.5 as a Self-Rated player on his 3.5 team, and go to State and maybe Sectionals. :roll:

    You aren't paying very close attention. ;)
     
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  35. kylebarendrick

    kylebarendrick Professional

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    We see the same thing with combo here (Norcal). Players self-rate for the fall combo season and dominate. Since combo doesn't count towards ratings, they dominate again in the adult league the following spring. They then get a second round of domination at combo since it take place before the new ratings are published.

    I'd really like to see all USTA matches used in the NTRP calculations (except maybe mixed since it has a different dynamic) to limit the ability of captains (I blame them more than the players) to bring in ringers and use them for multiple years.
     
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  36. OrangePower

    OrangePower Hall of Fame

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    Hey, didn't mean to imply anything about you and your rating - was just poking fun at AngleQueen and the board in general... eveyone is so obsessed with rating when really it's just an artificial construct designed only to ensure competitive matchups for recreational play.

    And thanks for your detailed response re the standardization. I get your points. I just think that you're in the small minority of people that play across sections and so are impacted by the lack of standardization. Most people play completely within a section, and so what other sections do is of no relevance. I still think the pros of tailoring things to the needs of every section far outweigh the cons of any confusion caused by lack of standards.

    Your personal example as a pilot is not quite analogous; obviously pilots from various areas interact a lot and need to have common standards. Players from different sections typically don't interact.
     
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  37. g4driver

    g4driver Hall of Fame

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    OrangePower, can you understand why our State not counting Single's matches toward an NTRP could affect others playing in our state, but it might not affect you or Hawaii?

    The self-rated 3.5 would have to make a choice. Would he be playing 4.0 if this affected his NTRP? A National Standard doesn't hurt you and protects our area from people who do this. If this guy plays up and his matches count, he is bumped to 4.0. Right now, he can play 4.0 Singles Spring and Summer and none of these matches count.

    How in the world does a National Standard affect NORCAL? SOCAL? Or another area of the country? Please enlighten me as I am completely baffled. National standards don't add any restrictions to a local area tailoring their local needs in any manner. What is does do is put everyone on the same sheet of music.

    My example is to show how standardization works. When you've never seen an organization that uses a system with standards it much harder to see how jacked up the USTA is regarding grievances, and what counts vs what doesn't count in your NTRP. A National Standard would have zero affect on your local area, other than possible stopping some sandbagging.

    The TSA is a another example of a non-standardized organization. Crewmembers can carry coffee through in every city but Orlando. It has nothing to do with security, but the Orlando TSA doesn't like it, so the local TSA makes crew put coffee in a bag then walk through the scanners. We still have coffee, but the TSA feels better because they made us put the coffee in a paper bag. Security Theater. But no purpose whatsoever. It doesn't really affect anyone, but it's a rule that someone came up with just because.
     
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2011
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  38. OrangePower

    OrangePower Hall of Fame

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    ^^^^

    I'm not sure I completely follow what you're saying.

    It seems your grievance is that your section does not count Single's league matches towards NTRP, and you want a national rule to force all sections to count all leagues towards NTRP.

    How does that affect me in Norcal? Well, mabe in Norcal we don't want Mixed results to count for NTRP, because over here we don't believe Mixed is real tennis? Just kidding... kinda... point is, if there was a national rule such as you suggest, it has implications on other sections also.

    Ok, so you might say, allow Norcal 'override' that rule, if we here feel a particular league shouldn't count. To which I say, well, if you in (whereever you are) feel Singles league should count, then why don't you and all the others who feel the same way just pressure your specific section to make it count?

    On a different note, and about your concern that a self-rated 3.5 could just play 4.0 singles forever without ever getting bumped up... what do you care? There is always going to be a small percentage of sandbagger players who get their kicks out of beating weaker players, and they are always going to find a way to bend the rules to achieve their sandbagging dreams. Just accept it and move on. Most of your matches are going to be competitive and fun, and that's really the only point of NTRP.
     
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  39. Angle Queen

    Angle Queen Professional

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    Thanks, OrangePower. And no worries. I had a good laugh over your reply. My original comment was also meant as a dig to those who try to "manage" their NTRP. I find that practice silly, sad and a bit infuriating.

    I can see a bit of g4's troubles with the lack of similarity across the various Sections. I, too, am probably of the "make it the same" everywhere camp...but realistically understand that differences do (and probably should) exist. I mean, it is called the National Tennis Rating Program. I never used to understand ESRs but given the vastly different playing climates (both natural and man-made) that exist across the country, I can roll with the idea of "seasons" that cross the calendar divide.

    It's the abuses of said system, though, that I think are what rankles people most. But bottomline, I think it does what it's supposed to do -- give similarly rated players a competitive match. And I think that remarkable given the number and skill-level ranges of players involved.

    Just my $1. Inflation, ya know.

    All that said, I'm awaiting the YER as well. They come out around the end of Nov (as best I can recall) and it's always a mad scramble to re/assemble a Winter Mixed Team that begins the first week of January. And I'll venture this, regardless of what happens to me, I doubt the folks I lost to, in the leagues that count :p ...will remain 3.5s. :)
     
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  40. cll30

    cll30 Rookie

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    But once someone is caught red-handed, the USTA needs to lower the boom and not just move them to their real level.
     
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  41. g4driver

    g4driver Hall of Fame

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    Part of the problem with the USTA is the apathy of the management. Roger Goodell is a leader. He gets it. The USTA is void of leaders IMO. And yes, I understand it's a volunteer group. I volunteer too. I've had multiple discussion about "Self-Rated" players with our local President and he too agrees with the call to Ban "Self-Rated" players from playoffs. The message has fallen on deaf ears. I will go to the State Annual Meeting with as much data as I can to prove my point. The local president told me "I know you 8itch about this and that, but with every complaint, your offer a solution. You bring up strong arguments. "

    No malice toward you OrangePower. If I didn't make my early arguments clear, I apologize. I hope my thought process is clearer now. I understand local needs and demographics and am not advocating making any changes that would affect local play. My goal is to get a truly National System with the same rules for everyone. Wow, what a concept. ;)
     
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  42. OrangePower

    OrangePower Hall of Fame

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    ^^^^^

    I would never claim the USTA is perfect, and so I appreciate folks like you who are willing to fight the good fight to make it better for all of us.

    But in general I have to agree with what Angle Queen said:

    Yes, there are some cheaters. Very few, given the number of people playing. The cheating bothers me in principle. In practice, I don't care - my goal in recreational tennis is to enjoy the tennis, not to win the competition of being the best of the worst. At the end of the day, it's the cheaters who have a problem, not me.
     
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  43. J_R_B

    J_R_B Hall of Fame

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    Guys who are going to throw games and cheat the system to avoid DQ are going to do that anyway. In this guy's case, I'm guessing he wouldn't have played singles leagues at all if he knew those matches would jeopardize his 3.5 adult rating since it's clear he was willing to go to great lengths to preserve that rating.

    You make it sound so simple, but the crux of the matter is that you can't control cheaters no matter what you do, and most of the penalties that are put in place end up catching people who are playing honestly rather than those that are willfully manipulating the system. The manipulators are too smart to get caught.

    I really have no problem with Sections wanting to do their own thing.
     
    #43
  44. g4driver

    g4driver Hall of Fame

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    Please tell me how my idea is flawed. Give me one example. I understand why people are afraid of change. It's different. People like stability. Last night all I heard from and over 50 crowd was the complaining about the new 40+, 55+ 70+ Age Brackets for the USTA Leagues.

    I spoke up and said "Everyone of you can play in two leagues, many of you in three leagues". A 43 year old can play in one league. Under the new system, every one of you can still play in two leagues if you are 49, three leagues if you are 55. How does this hurt you again?" Crickets. Nothing. Not a word.

    All I read from you and others is "The system isn't perfect, but it's good enough, and I don't care enough to change it since it really doesn't affect me." All I can gather from the naysayers is they fear doing something that implements a National NTRP, national grievance procedures, and makes the most basic elements of the USTA standardized. There would be no change to any local leagues.

    I'm just asking for one example of how my idea hurts anyone but those who manipulate? Where does it hurt honest people? Bueller? Bueller?
     
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2011
    #44
  45. J_R_B

    J_R_B Hall of Fame

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    The answer is because what's right for one section might not be right for another. Why? I don't know, go ask the sections that do it differently. I'm sure they have thier reasons. Many people have said this. You don't accept it, but that's not our problem.

    And I agree that people who re-register with a different number to self-rate at a lower level should face severe punishment. That is blatant cheating, and that's an entirely different issue.
     
    #45
  46. g4driver

    g4driver Hall of Fame

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    Two or three people certainly isn't many. And again, you can't offer one example, but that's not by problem.

    I've asked for honest feedback, and I can't get one example of how my idea hurts honest people. Just one example. I will be asking the Southern Section. I've never asked the question directly to the USTA but I will ask, in person and via email.

    Not picking at you JRB, and I appreciate your response, but neither you, OrangePower, Cindy or anyone else has offered one example of how my thought process is flawed. Not one example. All you can offer is "Many people have said this. You don't accept it, but that's not our problem.

    You're right on one account. I don't accept the lack of examples or evidence as a reason to let it go.

    If one person could offer just one example of where my idea hurts honest people I won't bring it up at the Annual SC meeting. That isn't a very big request. The problem is not one person can do that.
     
    #46
  47. Cindysphinx

    Cindysphinx G.O.A.T.

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    I'd be happy to tell you what I think of your proposal, but I am not sure what it is.

    Can you bullet-point it, please?
     
    #47
  48. ian2

    ian2 Semi-Pro

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    Cindy, I don't know if you meant to sound snarky, or it just happened to come out that way, but g4 was quite specific in his posts. I see no reason to bullet-point his ideas... the jist of it is obvious: he questions the lack of "standardization" in USTA approach to NTRP ratings. And rightfully so in my opinion. I can see why different sections may want to have different league offerings (due to climate, demographics, facilities availability etc.). But what is the point in, say, counting the same type of league towards NTRP in SoCal and not counting it in Eastern? Or including tournament results into the calculations in Intermountain but not in [some other section]?

    Of course it's worth remembering that there is a total of about a dozen people who give a damn about this kind of thing, all of them on this board :) This stuff really doesn't matter to the "masses". To think of it, it doesn't matter much to the majority of the paid USTA functionaries/"tennis professionals", nor do most of them know much about how NTRP works, differences accross sections, etc.
     
    #48
  49. Cindysphinx

    Cindysphinx G.O.A.T.

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    No, no snark intended.

    I guess I just didn't follow what he is proposing. I got snippets, but mostly it sounded like to me that there should be a ban if someone plays under a fake identity.

    Yeah. Sure. Whatever. I can get behind that.

    In general, though, I am not persuaded that standardization for standardization's sake is always best. There are certain efficiencies to handling things locally. Take my player who wasn't allowed to appeal down. Maybe she would have been allowed to appeal down had she been in Southwest instead of Mid-Atlantic. I disagree with the decision, but the world didn't tip off of its axis because of it.

    Given that league tennis is far from life and death importance, I think the existing system works OK (although I would like to see National USTA set a more strict tone overall about rating offenses).
     
    #49
  50. J_R_B

    J_R_B Hall of Fame

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    I don't have an example because I don't care why Southern doesn't want to include singles league matches in its NTRP while NorCal does when I live in Middle States and we don't even have singles leagues. If you want an explanation of why it is advantageous for each side to want it the way they do, go ask them. I'm sure there is a good reason for each. You're asking me to do research about somethng that you clearly care deeply about and I don't. Go do the research yourself.
     
    #50

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