2015 BNP Paribas / Indian Wells (R4) - Roger Federer vs Jack Sock

[FD3S]

Roddick's backhand wasn't great, but to compare it to an awful backhand like Sock's is going too far. Roddick's was serviceable at the tour level, at least.

Depends which stage of Roddick's career we're talking about. Early Roddick's BH was serviceable in the sense that he generally wouldn't make errors off routine rally balls, and that's the nicest thing I can say about it. Apply some consistent pressure to that wing and things could get ugly pretty fast, though this was mitigated by his tendency to run around it and kill forehands. I'd have rated it better than Sock's, but not by that much. I'll give him credit though, even in his younger years he'd have moments every so often where it sort of clicked for some reason.

Connors and Stefanki eventually got it to the point where Courier had his - not the prettiest shot, but it was near rock solid in terms of rallying consistency, and when combined with his slice (as a standalone groundstroke and not a suicide approach) he was actually pretty well set off that wing. It was never going to be a shot that won him matches alone, though, and it was quite rare when he amped up the pace and used it offensively aside from passing shots.

 

[President]

Depends which stage of Roddick's career we're talking about. Early Roddick's BH was serviceable in the sense that he generally wouldn't make errors off routine rally balls, and that's the nicest thing I can say about it. Apply some consistent pressure to that wing and things could get ugly pretty fast, though this was mitigated by his tendency to run around it and kill forehands. I'd have rated it better than Sock's, but not by that much.

Connors and Stefanki eventually got it to the point where Courier had his - not the prettiest shot, but it was near rock solid in terms of rallying consistency, and when combined with his slice (as a standalone groundstroke and not a suicide approach) he was actually pretty well set off that wing. It was never going to be a shot that won him matches alone, though, and it was quite rare when he amped up the pace and used it offensively aside from passing shots.

I totally agree with you. Even early Roddick's backhand was clearly better for me than Sock's is, Sock doesn't seem to be able to hit 5 shots in the court in a row with it, at least not shots that land past the middle of the service box...

 

[FD3S]

I totally agree with you. Even early Roddick's backhand was clearly better for me than Sock's is, Sock doesn't seem to be able to hit 5 shots in the court in a row with it, at least not shots that land past the middle of the service box...

Which is odd, b/c last year I thought I saw signs of improvement off that wing. Hopefully this just a brief step back, otherwise he's not going to have an easy ride.

 

[chjtennis]

I think you're all forgetting (kind of at least) that both Federer and Nadal have some serious work to do for the match to even happen personally. I think it will happen this time, but I'm just saying they have formidable opponents coming up. A Raonic-Berdych SF shouldn't completely shock anyone at this point. If it does, that's your fault.

It would be relatively surprising, but not shocking.

You are right. I actually think Raonic will take Nadal out and Fed v Berd will be 50/50. We'll see how they go.

 

[merwy]

I think you're all forgetting (kind of at least) that both Federer and Nadal have some serious work to do for the match to even happen personally. I think it will happen this time, but I'm just saying they have formidable opponents coming up. A Raonic-Berdych SF shouldn't completely shock anyone at this point. If it does, that's your fault.

It would be relatively surprising, but not shocking.

I think most people are aware that those guys are big threats. chjtennis just said Berdych-Federer is 50/50, which I agree with. I can't imagine Raonic beating Nadal. But maybe that's because I always expect Nadal to beat everyone except Djokovic.

 

[Deleted member 688153]

I ... want .. to see . Nadal Federer semi, dang it !

So do I actually.
I'd call it 50-50, and wouldn't even be mad if Fed lost.

Dayum I want that match, Berdych better not ruin it.

 

[gut wax]

So do I actually.

I'd call it 50-50, and wouldn't even be mad if Fed lost.



Dayum I want that match, Berdych better not ruin it.

Raonic, you mean. In either case, Fed will be there.

 

[cc0509]

You are right. I actually think Raonic will take Nadal out and Fed v Berd will be 50/50. We'll see how they go.

Take him out where? For dinner or a coffee? Milos has improved a lot but how is he going to get through Nadal's defense on this slow as a tortoise, high-bouncing court?

 

[Deleted member 688153]

Take him out where? For dinner or a coffee? Milos has improved a lot but how is he going to get through Nadal's defense on this slow as a tortoise, high-bouncing court?

Because Nadal might play like balls.

I thought that was obvious.

But no, I don't think Milos will be winning.

 

[Deleted member 688153]

Raonic, you mean. In either case, Fed will be there.

Let's hope so.

 

[cc0509]

Because Nadal might play like balls.

I thought that was obvious.

But no, I don't think Milos will be winning.

He might but even a half-arsed Nadal's ground game is so much better than Milos'. Milos will have to serve like lightning the entire time, keep the rallies super super short and hit the lines over and over again. Sure it is possible, but I will be surprised if it happens.

 

[Deleted member 688153]

even a half-arsed Nadal's ground game is so much better than Milos'.

Definitely.

Milos will have to serve like lightning the entire time, keep the rallies super super short

Not a big ask. :lol:

and hit the lines over and over again.

This is where a good day would come in handy.

Sure it is possible, but I will be surprised if it happens.

Same here.

 

[Djokovic2011]

Take him out where? For dinner or a coffee? Milos has improved a lot but how is he going to get through Nadal's defense on this slow as a tortoise, high-bouncing court?

Mmm, I don't think the idea of Raonic beating Nadal is that far-fetched cc0. :?

 

[cc0509]

Mmm, I don't think the idea of Raonic beating Nadal is that far-fetched cc0. :?

Ok, I will be over here on Planet Earth while you stay in fantasy land. :twisted:

I would not mind if Milos upset Nadal but I am having a difficult time imagining it.

 

[Deleted member 688153]

Mmm, I don't think the idea of Raonic beating Nadal is that far-fetched cc0. :?

cc0 is basically right though, Raonic is probably the least likely of that group of players to upset Nadal.

Simon had a much better chance IMO.

 

[Djokovic2011]

Ok, I will be over here on Planet Earth while you stay in fantasy land. :twisted:

I would not mind if Milos upset Nadal but I am having a difficult time imagining it.

Why is it fantasy land? Nadal ain't exactly hitting through the ball like it's 2013 this week. For an objective poster you do make some strange comments at times.

 

[cc0509]

Why is it fantasy land? Nadal ain't exactly hitting through the ball like it's 2013 this week. For an objective poster you do make some strange comments at times.

Ok, suit yourself. We are going to find out soon enough.

 

[Deleted member 688153]

Why is it fantasy land? Nadal ain't exactly hitting through the ball like it's 2013 this week. For an objective poster you do make some strange comments at times.

Oh yeah, Nadal is playing terribly, especially on the serve.

But his opponents will fold, don't worry. :twisted:

 

[Djokovic2011]

Ok, suit yourself. We are going to find out soon enough.

Lol, I can't believe you think what I'm saying is so ludicrous. If Nadal were playing like we all know he can then I could well understand your reasoning but from what I've seen of him in his last two matches he's been stinking the joint up. Your posts in this thread are making me want Raonic to win even more than I did before. :twisted:

 

[chjtennis]

Take him out where? For dinner or a coffee? Milos has improved a lot but how is he going to get through Nadal's defense on this slow as a tortoise, high-bouncing court?

Out of the tournament, mate. Raonic can be really tough to deal with when he serves well and I am not sure Nadal is in good form currently. It will be tough for Rafa, but of course, never write him off completely.

 

[fecaleagle]

Out of the tournament, mate. Raonic can be really tough to deal with when he serves well and I am not sure Nadal is in good form currently. It will be tough for Rafa, but of course, never write him off completely.

I'm worried about this match for Nadal. H2H means nothing after some of the performances he's given in the last year. Nadal has been broken quite a number of times so far in this tournament, and Raonic only needs one break (or none) to seal a set when he's serving lights out.

 

[MichaelNadal]

I'm worried about this match for Nadal. H2H means nothing after some of the performances he's given in the last year. Nadal has been broken quite a number of times so far in this tournament, and Raonic only needs one break (or none) to seal a set when he's serving lights out.

It's the exact match he needs right now. If he wins, it will do WONDERS for his confidence.

 

[Gary Duane]

It's the exact match he needs right now. If he wins, it will do WONDERS for his confidence.

MN, if you watched closely tonight, Nadal was playing slower. He is still doing the 10-11 bounce thing with his racket in sync with ritual, 4 bounces with his hand, but he was delaying more.

I think he is trying to balance the faster pace against a slightly slower pace overall, trying to find a rhythm.

Courier kept blabbing about how he is "worried" about Nadal's movement, but I think it is tension and nerves, not slowing down, or age, and I think he is going to mess up Raonic big-time.

I'm expecting a Nadal/Fed SF, and it could go either way.

With Novak's win against a VERY good Isner tonight, I favor Novak to win it all. Looking forward to the next 3 nights!

 

[ArcspacE]

MN, if you watched closely tonight, Nadal was playing slower. He is still doing the 10-11 bounce thing with his racket in sync with ritual, 4 bounces with his hand, but he was delaying more.

10-11 bounce?

 

[BretH]

Summary for those who missed the Fed match:

Federer better (er)

Serve - MUCH better
Return - MUCH better
Forehand - better
Backhand - hard to compare against nothing
Net game - see Backhand
Tennis sense - MUCHMUCHMUCH better

Sock really isn't as bad as he looked - Federer just has the ability to make even good players look much worse than they are.

 

[TheMusicLover]

Summary for those who missed the Fed match:

Federer better (er)

Serve - MUCH better
Return - MUCH better
Forehand - better
Backhand - hard to compare against nothing
Net game - see Backhand
Tennis sense - MUCHMUCHMUCH better

Sock really isn't as bad as he looked - Federer just has the ability to make even good players look much worse than they are.

Well thanks, I wasn't able to watch his match yesterday night (pretty nasty when the match starts around 01:15 AM and your alarm clock is set for less than six hours later to just try and be at your proper level at the law firm - let alone appear over there on time ) - I hope your impression is indeed correct.

 

[Sysyphus]

Summary for those who missed the Fed match:

Federer better (er)

Serve - MUCH better
Return - MUCH better
Forehand - better
Backhand - hard to compare against nothing
Net game - see Backhand
Tennis sense - MUCHMUCHMUCH better

Sock really isn't as bad as he looked - Federer just has the ability to make even good players look much worse than they are.

Thanks for the summary! I didn't get to watch the match. This sounds promising and I'm glad he looked betterer.

 

[racquetreligion]

that stat of fed avg higher spin rates than Nads is right???

Must the the 97 and the serving definitely has improved to think for so many years
he was wielding that 90 inch stick and framing so many balls while the
rest were already onto the extra square inches of real estate.

Id like to see Fed use that crosscourt killer he pounces on more often
against Nads and also that down the line BH he used against Nole.

 

[DRII]

Anyone wondering what is wrong with US mens tennis - watch this. Sock, nice guy, but was done in by his junior coaches - just like Roddick, Johnson, Isner, etc - no BH! I'm sure it was great as juniors to hit bombs and FHs and zoom up the rankings. You'd think at some point they'd realize they might have a pro prospect on their hands and teach him to hit a serviceable BH. No way Roddick wouldn't have beaten Fed in a few of their majors encounters if he'd had a decent BH. And don't need clay courts to learn one on.

No way to know how good Fed is playing. This is a training match.

i pretty much agree; and also the forehand itself, of many American players after Roddick, is not the best. too much spin and not enough penetration...

 

[Nathaniel_Near]

Sock was game, but he ended up getting biznitch slapped and then crumbled in the second set. Fed's intensity level was too much for Sock to deal with.