26" racquets

Discussion in 'Junior League & Tournament Talk' started by t135, Mar 26, 2012.

  1. CoachDad

    CoachDad Rookie

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    Good for you Ga. I gave up on this thread. Macci, Sanchez-Casal, and myself will keep on producing our players using our methods and the rest can do their thing. They want to have kids hitting rocks with 25 inch sticks....whatever.
     
    #51
  2. widmerpool

    widmerpool Rookie

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    I have a 7 y/o boy in a 25. Going to move up to a 26 soon.

    Use red and now orange balls.

    I agree with "dad" that it's really bad to hit a regular ball with a 25" racquet. That said, my son didn't start at 3.

    QuickStart is not a complete disaster for all kids. When it's time to move on, we'll move on.
     
    #52
  3. nn

    nn Hall of Fame

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    CoachDad, you need to stop repeating ONE thing million times because I never mention hitting regulation balls with 25inch racquet (hit regulation balls with better racquet not the walmart one)

    I don't have anything else to add fuel in fire use whatever you want with anyone don't repeat one thing again and again kind of annoying (like many parents in camp)
     
    #53
  4. BMC9670

    BMC9670 Hall of Fame

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    Correct. I think you'll find most of us here believe it has it's place in teaching tennis at young and/or beginning stages. It's the mandates that we have a problem with. There is no one size fits all. Kids start and progresses at different ages and rate, depending on a range of variables.
     
    #54
  5. CoachDad

    CoachDad Rookie

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    Not sure what your problem is, you pull a quote from a post from 2 weeks ago?

    Sorry, I have not read any posts on this thread in a while, certainly none of yours. I did not gain anything informative from your posts so I moved on. My last post was simply responding to an old friend of mine, Gatennis, with whom I have had discussions in the past about parents who bring kids to Macci's for $300/hour lessons and insist on using these little 25 inch frames.

    My post was not related to you nor referenced you in any way, shape, or form.
     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2012
    #55
  6. SFrazeur

    SFrazeur Legend

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    Super light weight aluminum kids racuqets are not intended for high paced yellow/regulation balls and really should not be used. If a child is using yellow balls they should use a heavier, longer 26"+ racquets to match the weight and pace of said balls. When I talk about "pace" I am referring to "rotating mass at high speed." Meaning, the faster weight travels with rotation the heavier it impacts a racquet. Pace with yellow/regulation balls can completely overwhelm light weight racquets.

    If a child cannot handle using such racquets then they should be on progressive courts with lighter, slower paced balls and smaller racquets.

    Soapbox:
    I do not think 5 year-olds should be on the fullsize court unless they can play the game on that court size. If they can then great! Tennis development isn't a race, it's a marathon. Yes. I went to the cheese.

    If they cannot serve, groundstroke, transition and volley on that court then they are not playing the game on that court. Otherwise they should at lest be on the 60ft Court, the second progression of court sizes. The first being 36ft and the last being the fullsize 78ft court.

    To first train a young child on the fullsize, 78ft court creates what I call "Tupperware Tennis Development." This locks a child in a sterile environment where every ball is feed perfect; and where said child has to wait a prolonged time to actually play the game. The point of playing Tennis is to play Tennis.
     
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  7. CoachDad

    CoachDad Rookie

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    I agree with your first 2 paragraphs.

    But I do not agree with the last part. The worst thing you can do is feel the need for a kid to 'play tennis' to soon. Rick Macci, Sanchez Vicario and other top coaches design proper drills that push kids on a full court, they never just give perfect feeds.

    When a kid starts to 'play tennis' right away on a tiny court they barely sweat, barely move. They can cover the court with a few steps. These kids are shocked when they later realize how much running is involved in real tennis. The small courts and playing tennis right away creates the Tupperwear Tennis you mentioned.

    There is no easy way. You want a future rec player let them play Quickstart right away and play points on a tiny court. Let them think tennis is not a running sport. But if you want an elite player use the Macci or Sanchez Vicario way of hand feeds and racquet feds, pushing them to move around a full court, fun and challenging drills for years before they every play 'real' tennis.

    The future elites do everything you say, transition, volley, serve....but they do it at young ages in the context of drills and feeds that push them to the edge of current abilities. They do not do it on a tiny court with slow balls in the context of playing "real tennis".

    It is what it is, no short cuts to producing top players. Ask any top kids coach and they will all tell you that the earlier a kid is allowed to play 'real' tennis on a mini court, in the vast majority of cases, the worse their fundamentals will be, the worse their hustle will be, and the worse their overall success in tennis will be.

    Tennis is the only kids sport they call their own lines, the only game they have no coach or caddy with them during play, the only physical game that they have no teammate to come in when they get tired. It is a unique sport and to develop a top junior they must be developed unlike any other sport, and that includes no early 'real play'. There is simply no way for a 5 year old to actually play real tennis because mini courts are not the same. In bitty basketball they still get banged and get tired, in mini baseball they still have to race to the bases, in mini soccer they still run a lot. But in almost all mini tennis they move 2-3 steps and tap a ball and can use awful technique to have early success....its just not tennis and is not useful for long term development. Those amazing kid's mini tennis points you see on You Tube are very rare. But it is just fine if you want hack weekend players down the line at the local park....nothing wrong with it if that is your goal.
     
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2012
    #57
  8. Postpre

    Postpre Rookie

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    CoachDad,

    I want to get my 7 yr old boy a 27' racket. He's been using a 26' (Wilson Surge) for a few months, and has been hitting real balls. I think he can step up to the 27'.

    What kind of racket would you recommend? Weight? I'm hoping to use my $50 e-b-a-y gift card to pay for part of it :)

    Thank you.
     
    #58
  9. CoachDad

    CoachDad Rookie

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    Look for head light, smaller grip size and lower stiffness at that age. He should be using a 4-41/8 inch grip. Keep the stiffness under 70, under 65 is even better.

    Wilson has some nice choices. We like the one below but it is near the very top of the stiffness scale that I would recommend. I believe Tennis Warehouse carries it in an 4 1/8 grip. My girl is 7.5 and loves it, she hits like a demon with this frame!

    http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0048FGL0G/ref=wms_ohs_product
     
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2012
    #59
  10. SFrazeur

    SFrazeur Legend

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    When first training someone a stroke (forehand or backhand) you start them out close to the ball and there is a lot of stroke repetition. You can them send them wider, shorter, deeper. Repetition, rinse, repeat. Using smaller progressive size courts is the same process. No. I don't want players to have to move all that far to the ball because I want that stroke to be technically correct while they are rallying.


    What you do not understand/know is that I train children on "QuickStart " progressive size courts with world class fundamentals and technique. When learning to Tennis on these courts there is no excuse for them not to learn correct form.
    This is Tupperware Tennis. You defined it very well. Don't get me wrong, it will work great and has worked great all these years to develop the world's finest players. However, as your Macci is fond of saying "not a right way, not a wrong way but a better way. Also, for the players with appropriate skills Tennis on 36ft courts and 60ft courts IS real Tennis.
     
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  11. doubleshack

    doubleshack New User

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    Two really strong 8 year old kids on a full size court will hit a lot of winners, simply because an 8 year old can not cover a full size court like an 18 year old.

    Put those same 8 year olds on a smaller court and the balls will be returned. They will need to learn point construction in order to win a point. I don't know if Quickstart has the dimensions correctly, but there are advantages to having smaller kids on smaller courts.

    Youth baseball does not have the pitchers mound at a professional distance, simply because the time the ball leaves the mound and crosses the plate will making it easy to hit. At the shorter distance, the time from mound to plate with a slower ball, is the same time as a faster ball from a longer distance. The kids are throwing slower, but the batters reaction time needs to be as quick as if it was a 90 MPH pitch from regulation.

    Likewise, 8 years old, no matter how well they hit the ball, do not hit it as fast as 18 years olds. Why should they be on the same size court. Put them on a smaller court and they will improve their reaction time.
     
    #61
  12. slice bh compliment

    slice bh compliment G.O.A.T.

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    I play with my 5 yr old daughter on two courts side by side with those huge novelty racquets and autograph balls. Then we go to a regulation court, we both feel like superheroes. It's been really great.

    I think we're going to package it and call it 'Slow Start'. I just hope we don't get hurt or anything. My daughter sometimes cries, but it's all part of the journey.

    Tomorrow she gets to wear my shoes so she can develop agility and leg strength. It's like ankle weights and hurdles all in one!

    Then next week, we're goin' with volleyball nets! I ordered them through vicarioussdadwarehouse.com and used my frequent psychosportsdadcard!
     
    #62
  13. CoachDad

    CoachDad Rookie

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    The kids who go on to more success do not worry about playing 'real tennis' too soon. And even if they do compete, their coaches realize the real improvement comes with a proper designed practice, not in a tournament, small or large court. They drill at young ages, play other sports, they do not play organized matches on small courts, nor do they rush to moonball back and forth on full courts with poor technique....it is a simple as that.

    Kids playing on small courts are shocked when they find out how much running is involved in real court tennis. Anything learned in point construction is overshadowed by the fact they do not run on tiny courts.

    The top kid's coaches use proper drills to push kids to move. You can teach kids to construct points much better with a sequence of proper feeds. You can put a kid into the corner, bring them to the middle, get them to hit set up shots, get them to the net.....this is done in drill settings way better than playing mini tennis.

    There is no way around it, tennis is not any other sport. Baseball analogies do not work. In tennis the best kids need to bust it and sweat and move and hustle and have no team to take up the slack. Any top coach will tell you that you must find out which kids will bust after balls at age 8 because if they will not run after balls at 8 they will not run after balls at 12. Sorry, the realities of tennis are what they are. The best kids are pushed on full courts, maybe not rallying with other kids, but with proper feeds or rallies with a talented teacher.

    The problem is kids do not construct points on smaller courts for the most part. Once it becomes a tournament for a trophy, they resort to bad technique just to win. And if it is a practice setting the coach does not need a smaller court, the coach can use proper feeds to both construct points and push the kids to move.

    Its has nothing to do with an 8 year old not moving like an 18 year old. A good coach can design the drills and practice matches to push any kid at any age to move on court. And you would be surprised what an 8 year old can do when properly trained. They use anticipation and improved efficient movement to get to balls they would never had they been trained on small courts.
     
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2012
    #63
  14. CoachDad

    CoachDad Rookie

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    Last time I checked this board was for tennis kids and parents who are serious about tennis. I would guess parents and kids who come here are not the vast majority who just want to play tennis in the park.

    So yeah, the advice here will be from coaches and parents who deal with higher ranked kids and what extremes are needed to get there.

    As far as living 'vicariously'....kids would be a lot better off if more parents were more involved with their lives. So being too involved is by far the lesser of problems with kids today. Too many parents let a kid's peers raise them with mediocre at best results.
     
    #64
  15. slice bh compliment

    slice bh compliment G.O.A.T.

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    Higher ranked kids...and yes, we play in the park. We even ride our bikes there.
    We take a few extremes here and there, as I mentioned in the earlier post, but one day we will ratchet it up. I hope one day to be as involved as the parents in this clip.

    http://www.bing.com/videos/watch/video/helicopter-parents/17w5zywhu

    Best regards.
     
    #65
  16. doubleshack

    doubleshack New User

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    For an 8 year old to have a full time coach so they can be fed balls to simulate constructing points, they either need to have a parent who is a strong player and has the time and patience, or they need parents with deep pockets. If the future of US tennis is dependent on these 2 small groups of people, then don't expect the US to dominate tennis any time soon.

    It would be great if all kids had this opportunity, but the reality is, only a few kids have this privilege. So, most kids play baseball, soccer, basketball and other sports that have adjusted the size of the game.

    Will Quickstart adjustments change tennis so that the numbers increase? Only time will tell. However, given the current stigma of the only tennis is regulation tennis, it will be an uphill battle.
     
    #66
  17. tennis5

    tennis5 Professional

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    This is the funniest video!

    Up there with -

    http://lisawallerrogers.wordpress.com/2009/11/23/general-macarthur-had-a-helicopter-mom/
     
    #67
  18. BMC9670

    BMC9670 Hall of Fame

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    #68
  19. SystemicAnomaly

    SystemicAnomaly G.O.A.T.

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    I assume that you are being facetious here. Seriously, if you have your mind set on a 26" racket, go with the heaviest one that you can find. I've not come across one yet that does not require some added weight. At 8 years old, I can't see your daughter using a 26" frame for a full year.

    She will probably be ok with a 27" racket in the 10-11 oz range for groundstrokes. The 26" frame might fill the ticket for serves, o'heads and volleys for now.
     
    #69
  20. Soianka

    Soianka Hall of Fame

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    Very true.
     
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  21. nn

    nn Hall of Fame

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    You are right. USTA should do something about coaching and facility. Right now, it is very expensive to coach someone from junior to pro level.

    I know many kids love playing tennis because of quick start simply because they can get to the ball and hit it.

    If someone remembers that it is not a race to graduate to regulation balls. Some people think kids hitting of a regulation ball asap means they are next pro or champs (such a wrong notion)

    Also every kid will be a next champ or pro but quick start gives them an opportunity to enjoy the tennis.
     
    #71

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