2HBH -- Hitting My Backside With My Racket

Discussion in 'Tennis Tips/Instruction' started by Cindysphinx, Oct 11, 2007.

  1. Cindysphinx

    Cindysphinx G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2006
    Messages:
    15,067
    I did a 90-minute clinic yesterday devoted solely to backhands. We hit *a lot* of backhands. It was a good class.

    I noticed about halfway through that my right butt-cheek was getting sore from being smacked with the frame of my racket on my follow-through.

    I am wondering whether this means anything (other than that I have a Big Butt). Does it mean I'm not extending enough into the ball? Or is it normal for the racket to hit your behind?

    I have noticed it in matches and practice, but it doesn't bother me. I noticed it yesterday because I hit so very many backhands.
     
    #1
  2. Geezer Guy

    Geezer Guy Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2005
    Messages:
    2,792
    Location:
    Big Canoe, GA
    Sounds like you're hitting a pretty flat backhand (not much topspin). You must be breaking your wrists also.
     
    #2
  3. krz

    krz Professional

    Joined:
    May 23, 2007
    Messages:
    889
    Location:
    Concrete Jungle Where Dreams are Made
    Are you following through above your shoulder? If so you must be very flexible to get the racket to hit your butt.
     
    #3
  4. Cindysphinx

    Cindysphinx G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2006
    Messages:
    15,067
    Don't know about the broken wrists. Doesn't seem to be an issue at contact point.

    Definitely generating plenty of topspin, though.

    Maybe my racket is too long for me? :)
     
    #4
  5. Kaptain Karl

    Kaptain Karl Hall Of Fame

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2004
    Messages:
    5,236
    Location:
    The High Country of Colorado
    Cindy, we've just gotta see the film on this question. Otherwise there are too many ... indelicate ... questions to ask you....

    - KK
     
    #5
  6. Narcissist

    Narcissist Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2006
    Messages:
    478
    Finish for 2hbh is usually over the shoulder with butt cap pointing at the net. Perhaps with a flatter shot you are finishing more like this?

    [​IMG]
     
    #6
  7. Doc Hollidae

    Doc Hollidae Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2006
    Messages:
    1,668
    Typically your follow through should end up no where near your arse. Traditionally follow throughs were supposed to be over the shoulder, but the topspin in the modern game has players following through closer to their biceps or elbows. However for a two handed backhand you should still be following through over your shoulder and when finished with your stroke your buttcap should be facing your opponent. From what it sounds like if you're starting your swing low and finishing low. Instead you should be concentrating on swinging low to high, regardless if you're hitting flat or topspin.
     
    #7
  8. Cindysphinx

    Cindysphinx G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2006
    Messages:
    15,067
    No, it can't be like the picture. Her racket is nowhere near her butt.

    I think my wrists/hands are behind/next to my right ear at finish. I'm definitely not going across my body. You could never reach your butt that way. I have been told by one pro that I start my swing path too low, but another pro thinks it is OK.

    Boy, I'm surprised no one else does this. I assumed it was common. No pro has ever told me to stop, but then again, maybe they can't see behind me and are wondering what that thumping sound is. :)
     
    #8
  9. a_6m

    a_6m Rookie

    Joined:
    May 21, 2007
    Messages:
    115
    it happens sometimes, with excessive use of wrist not straightened arms, but not often.
     
    #9
  10. Topaz

    Topaz Legend

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2005
    Messages:
    6,782
    Wow Cindy...you did it! You've totally stumped me! :)

    I'm just wrapping my head around how you could be hitting your butt on your BH, especially if your hands are up by your ear?!? Lol, you must be *very* flexible!
     
    #10
  11. Kaptain Karl

    Kaptain Karl Hall Of Fame

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2004
    Messages:
    5,236
    Location:
    The High Country of Colorado
    Or she has unusually long arms ... and a short torso???
    (Which is why I *must* see the vid, please.)

    - KK
     
    #11
  12. VGP

    VGP Legend

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2005
    Messages:
    6,311
    Location:
    Location: Location
    Cindysphinx - how tall are you?

    I'm not tall and I think I can see what you mean.....

    that is if I was a 2hander.....
     
    #12
  13. Cindysphinx

    Cindysphinx G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2006
    Messages:
    15,067
    Topaz, you couldn't do it?

    I'm 5'4" with a short torso and long legs. That must be it.

    I was playing around with this today, and I noticed that my butt cap is pointed ahead and upward when I manage to thwack my butt.

    KK, I don't have video capability. I have an old Sony HandiCam that takes VHS mini-cassettes. No digital. Maybe I'll ask for one for Christmas and take some video . . .
     
    #13
  14. Topaz

    Topaz Legend

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2005
    Messages:
    6,782
    I just tried, and honestly, my racquet isn't anywhere near my butt! I'm 5'4" as well, but short torso and short legs. My hands are up near my right ear, and I can hit myself on my back if I try hard, but not my butt!

    Cindy, just face it...you're gifted! :)
     
    #14
  15. Kaptain Karl

    Kaptain Karl Hall Of Fame

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2004
    Messages:
    5,236
    Location:
    The High Country of Colorado
    ... or she's got one heck of a caboose!

    - KK
     
    #15
  16. Cindysphinx

    Cindysphinx G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2006
    Messages:
    15,067
    Are ya sure? I mean, if you just stand there, it might be hard to reach. But if you swing full speed, if you get some real racket head speed momentum going, doesn't it whap your butt?

    And yes, KK, my butt is *spectacular!* :)
     
    #16
  17. Kaptain Karl

    Kaptain Karl Hall Of Fame

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2004
    Messages:
    5,236
    Location:
    The High Country of Colorado
    [size=+2]Oh my!!![/size]

    - KK
     
    #17
  18. sharpy

    sharpy Banned

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2005
    Messages:
    295

    Yeah. you outta take some video of that butt kicking backhand of yours.

    Post it up and it'll be one of the funniest moments in tennis:p :p :p
     
    #18
  19. Mahboob Khan

    Mahboob Khan Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2004
    Messages:
    2,094
    I am happy that you have a spectacular butt (what is butt? hips?). Really, I am not sure what butt means? If by butt you mean hips area, then:

    -- it is clear that your follow through is closer to your body and/or across your body; your elbows do not extend forward-upward. (Maybe you also squeeze your chest as you followthrough)?

    OK, as you hit the ball, imagine you are hitting three balls in a row; which will force you to hit through on a forward-upward path, let your elbows extend forward-upward; this will ensure that your racket finish over your right shoulder NOT on it/behind it. Since it will finish over your opposite shoulder, it will not reach your butt! Try my advice.

    Mahboob Khan
     
    #19
  20. Rafa freak

    Rafa freak Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2007
    Messages:
    445
    Location:
    Tennis court
    Sounds like you need too stop hiting bh's
     
    #20
  21. Mahboob Khan

    Mahboob Khan Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2004
    Messages:
    2,094
    She is enjoying her BH. We will help her to overcome this problem. I have already given her advice. If she follows my advice, the problem will be cured.
     
    #21
  22. Topaz

    Topaz Legend

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2005
    Messages:
    6,782
    Tell you what Cindy...I'm headed off to my own lesson in a bit here, which I'm pretty sure will also be devoted to backhands. I'll try and see if I can hit my butt! Just for you!!!! ;)
     
    #22
  23. Cindysphinx

    Cindysphinx G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2006
    Messages:
    15,067
    Just to be clear, we're talking about an area at the very top of the right butt cheek. I wouldn't call it the hip. I think of hips being the side of the uppermost part of the leg. The butt is the part you sit on, just below the small of the back.

    Mahboob, if the finish is over the right shoulder, why is it so hard to imagine the racket continuing over the shoulder to the top of the right cheek?

    I played around with the idea of extension to see if that was the problem. More use of the left arm. I still hit my butt if I finished my shot. If I am out of position and don't finish the shot, then I don't hit my butt, of course. In that drill class with the ball machine, every ball was right to me, so I hit my butt a whole lot.

    I'll bet Topaz will score at least one first-rate butt slap during her lesson. Come on, Topaz! You can do it!
     
    #23
  24. BeHappy

    BeHappy Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2007
    Messages:
    4,789
    does your hand finish on top of your shoulder or beside it, makes a big difference.
     
    #24
  25. Topaz

    Topaz Legend

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2005
    Messages:
    6,782
    Ahhh! I tried Cindy, I really did! But my BH finish is no where near my butt! I'm up over my right shoulder, and at the most, I can tap myself on the back, but that is it. Maybe you do have a really long racquet? Or a really high butt?!? :grin:
     
    #25
  26. Cindysphinx

    Cindysphinx G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2006
    Messages:
    15,067
    BeHappy, my fists are on slightly above my right shoulder or a little behind.

    Topaz, all you need is a slightly higher butt. Nothing a few leg lifts won't fix. :)

    OK, I'll ask my pro about it on Tuesday. I can see That Look on his face now: "Now what weirdo Freak Of Nature thing is she gonna ask me about this time?"
     
    #26
  27. BeHappy

    BeHappy Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2007
    Messages:
    4,789
    well they have to end right on top of your shoulder, iot is impossible to hit your ass from there.
     
    #27
  28. Shashwat

    Shashwat Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2007
    Messages:
    548
    Location:
    San Antonio, Texas
    Ass said before, your follow through should be behind your shoulders rather than waist level. I don't know how you are hitting the ball if you are hitting your butt on your follow through.

    Good luck.
     
    #28
  29. Mahboob Khan

    Mahboob Khan Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2004
    Messages:
    2,094
    Cindy: can you load your video here. Easily downloadable video. Click and it comes. I would like to see how in the world you hit your butt?
     
    #29
  30. Cindysphinx

    Cindysphinx G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2006
    Messages:
    15,067
    Oh, Mahboob. I would *so* like to show you some video. I don't have any way to record myself. My camcorder was purchased in 1991 and was crummy from the get-go. The battery is probably quite dead, and no way am I buying another battery for that lousy thing. I mean, you have to peer into this teensy viewfinder gizmo, which is black and white and the image is always fuzzy.

    I promise, as soon as I get some way to do video, I will load it for your viewing pleasure. Maybe I should ask for a camcorder for Christmas?

    You know, I took some rough measurements today for those who believe this is impossible. I took my Aeropro Drive and held it straight up and down behind me, with its head down on the top of my butt, the racket handle extending straight up. You know, just to see what my, erm, proportions are.

    When my racket is touching this spot on my butt, the entire grip is visible above my right shoulder. In other words, if I swing and my fists land on my shoulders, the racket is plenty long enough to touch my butt. Add some racket head speed, and you can get a pretty good whap.

    Now, sometimes when I swing the racket doesn't hit my butt and instead hits my back somewhere. The follow-through for hitting the butt is a bit more toward the end of the shoulder rather than toward the neck/ear. But it is definitely over the shoulder. Also, if I am relaxed so the wrists break a bit at the end, the racket thwap is even more do-able.

    Did that make any sense at all?

    Cindy -- who doesn't have a digital camera, either
     
    #30
  31. BeHappy

    BeHappy Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2007
    Messages:
    4,789
    how tall are you?
     
    #31
  32. Kaptain Karl

    Kaptain Karl Hall Of Fame

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2004
    Messages:
    5,236
    Location:
    The High Country of Colorado
    Now I'm curious to see if the bruises are showing the pattern of the edge of your frame ... or your strings.
    Use your phone camera and post some pics(!).

    - KK
     
    #32
  33. Topaz

    Topaz Legend

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2005
    Messages:
    6,782
    Cindy, I suppose if you're really set on providing these guys some photographic evidence, I can come and take some pictures of this phenomenon. Again, I can hit my back, but not my butt. Maybe this particular talent can be parlayed into something that makes you rich and famous? ;)
     
    #33
  34. Cindysphinx

    Cindysphinx G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2006
    Messages:
    15,067
    I'm 5'4". Although every time I get a physical, they keep saying I'm 5'3/4". Those liars!

    I don't hit my butt with the strings. It's the frame. That's why it stings if I hit 90 minutes of backhands.

    Topaz, what part of your back do you hit?

    You know, I'm going to have to cancel my Tuesday lesson, and rain is forecast for my group lesson on Thursday. Then my pro is out of town for the rest of the month.

    This burning Butt-Thwacking question may have to wait until November to get an expert diagnosis.
     
    #34
  35. Topaz

    Topaz Legend

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2005
    Messages:
    6,782
     
    #35
  36. Cindysphinx

    Cindysphinx G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2006
    Messages:
    15,067
     
    #36
  37. Topaz

    Topaz Legend

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2005
    Messages:
    6,782
     
    #37
  38. Kaptain Karl

    Kaptain Karl Hall Of Fame

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2004
    Messages:
    5,236
    Location:
    The High Country of Colorado
    [KK is trying to get his mind to erase the mental image of Cindy's body parts.]

    Aaaagh!!!

    - KK
     
    #38
  39. Mahboob Khan

    Mahboob Khan Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2004
    Messages:
    2,094
    Cindy: You are getting very special for us.

    Try gripping your racket a bit tightly and keep your wrists firm. Hold it little bit more upfront (choke it up). Do not hold it at the butt cap. This because I believe that because of your loose grips/wrists the racket-head is shaking and breaking downwards like a rubber to hit the top edge of your butt.

    After you grip your racket the way I suggested, then as you hit, imagine hitting three balls in a row, let the racket head go forward-upward and stop your follow-through in front of you (as if you are hitting down the line). Once this habit is drilled into your system, then finish your follow through over and above your other shoulder (on the follow through your hands should not touch your shoulder). Let your hands (and the racket head) finish more toward the sky. The solution is quite easy, try it. If you want to send me an email it is: makhan67@hotmail.com. I will try to help you.
     
    #39
  40. AlpineCadet

    AlpineCadet Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2006
    Messages:
    4,649
    I sense some 'tension' in this thread, lol. :grin:
     
    #40
  41. Cindysphinx

    Cindysphinx G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2006
    Messages:
    15,067
    OK, I could try to stop the butt thwack.

    But really, is it necessarily a bad thing? Why? I mean, if I extend through the shot and result is good, is it something I should fix?

    And if I choke up a bit, this will affect my reach negatively, no?
     
    #41
  42. yjcturtle

    yjcturtle New User

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2007
    Messages:
    33
    hi, i am using 2HBH too and i usually hit my butt. i think what cindy did is similar to a full golfclub swing?
     
    #42
  43. Cindysphinx

    Cindysphinx G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2006
    Messages:
    15,067
    **YESSSSSS!!!***

    I knew I wasn't the only one!

    Pleased to meet you, YJCTurtle . . .
     
    #43
  44. ananda

    ananda Professional

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2007
    Messages:
    914
    pun/mis-spelling noted and appreciated, Shashwat :)

    i tried it based on cindy's detailed description, and i WAS able to replicate the phenomenon.
    I think at the end of the follow-through when her hands are around the shoulders, she completely loosens the grip especially with the right hand, so the racquet swings and falls and hits the right butt, on the upper side, not the soft part.

    although, i could only do this in slow motion, and consciously, and it would take me a year of dedicated practice to actually be able to hit the ball while trying to do this and get it across the net.
    But its doable.

    Maybe i could keep posting videos of how it can be done, and cindy can check and give feedback, and approve when i finally get it correct :)
     
    #44
  45. yjcturtle

    yjcturtle New User

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2007
    Messages:
    33
    nice to meet you too :)

    I know how you feel about the sore part accept that mine is nearer to the upper part of the butt and closer to the spine. After a long match it starts to get sore :p

    sometimes when i hit too hard, the racquet will go *SMACK* and everyone will be looking at me like o_O
     
    #45
  46. Mahboob Khan

    Mahboob Khan Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2004
    Messages:
    2,094
    I gave you the solution. If you are happy with your butt thwacking then why complain?
     
    #46
  47. Cindysphinx

    Cindysphinx G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2006
    Messages:
    15,067
    I wasn't complaining. Well, it did get sore during that clinic, but I don't usually hit 90-minutes of non-stop backhands . . .
     
    #47
  48. Bagumbawalla

    Bagumbawalla Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2006
    Messages:
    2,458
    I have tried to duplicate your stroke, and the only way I could come close was by allowing my elbow to turn out horozontally after impact and, at the same time, loosening up my grip. Now, I feel as if I've been kidney-punched by Mike Tyson.

    Anyway, I think your self-flagilation may be OK on certain days of religous atonement, but not-so-much for tennis.

    Imagine an arcing pathway through the ball and follow-through along that pathway with your racket. Dont' loosen or shift your grip during the stroke. Allow your elbow to follow along the stroke path and don't bend it so much. These things should prevent your playing wack-a-mole with your butt.

    Of course, trying to change the stroke (that you have spent so long grooving in), even slightly, will seem awkward and your game may suffer for a while, without any real hope of dramatic improvement in your shot- just less pain.
     
    #48

Share This Page