2hbh, pass on your advice [vid]

Discussion in 'Tennis Tips/Instruction' started by aimr75, Aug 10, 2010.

  1. aimr75

    aimr75 Hall of Fame

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    I have been using a 1hbh for quite some time, but have been dabbling a bit with the 2 hander.. its very new to me.. i've tried it a bit in the past but have not tried to learn it properly.. i am a relative noob with this shot..

    Pass on any advice you might have to help improve it..

    there are a few backhands in amongst the forehands:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dDhKN_y1ZEU

    cheers
     
    #1
  2. ho

    ho Semi-Pro

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    the funny thing about this site is if you do or said something wrong, there is a ton of rough answer right in your face.
    otherwise they all disappear never see a thing !!!
    That not because they are nice with you, just that they cannot find anythings to criticise you, and make them look smart !!
    So if you do not see anybody answer you post, if means that you doing good. Real good in fact.
    You are a talented young man thru the way you move, that first, your mechanic on forehand is almost perfect. only thing i can see is if you trail your arm behind your shoulder a little. you will hit harder.
    i do not see any thing wrong with your 2hbh. a newly learn and i cannot see any flaw, you are a born gifted. If you can show the other side, it be better for me to find something to make me look smart, but so far, i fail.
    Congratulation young man, a 4.5 is absolutely in your reach.
     
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  3. Bud

    Bud Bionic Poster

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    Your 2HBH looks like a natural shot... agree with the poster above. However, in a video displaying your BH... hit more BH returns.

    Let's see video of your 1HBH :)
     
    #3
  4. supineAnimation

    supineAnimation Professional

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    There's a lot of good stuff in your stroke, but you wanna try using your right arm more. It'll help you get your contact point farther out in front you. And you can extend your left arm towards your target longer through contact before you let your arms wrap around your right side. But you have a nice quiet torso and a smooth swing speed.
     
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  5. Ultra2HolyGrail

    Ultra2HolyGrail Hall of Fame

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    Yes, you want to use your right arm more. Keep both arms extended the same at impact. And really step into the shot and use your body transfer as much as possible. And imo try to keep a flatter swing path which leads to a better follow through instead of a big low to high shot with a follow through over your shoulders like a golf swing.
     
    #5
  6. bhupaes

    bhupaes Professional

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    Jeez, man - you look like you've been doing it all your life! Great stuff!
     
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  7. aimr75

    aimr75 Hall of Fame

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    hey thanks! :)

    I dont have much uploaded of the 1hbh,

    some slo mo 1 handers:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VGcHUw_gR-Y

    and a couple at the end of this vid:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lNlv6FNh70Q

    interesting, i keep hearing about this left hand dominance thing, so i was trying to use less of the right arm, or am i being off track with this?

    I noticed i dont extend enough through contact. Will work on this. Thanks


    When i looked back on it, i could see that my arms in the follow through seemed fairly "close" to the body as they wrap around.. as you say, like a golf swing.. but is it more an issue of extending through the shot, or the low to high?
     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2010
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  8. Ultra2HolyGrail

    Ultra2HolyGrail Hall of Fame

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    I would say extention. But if you like the low to high watch some slow mo of safin and nalbandians backhand. And watch the follow through after they hit the ball. It's going to be hard to get a golf follow through over your shoulder with the arms extended.
     
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  9. aimr75

    aimr75 Hall of Fame

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    actually i like safin's 2 hander and would like to emulate his technique.. will need to work on the extension

    Up until i shot this vid the night before, i hadnt actually tried hitting a 2 hander for over a year.. so will see how i go over the next few sessions
     
    #9
  10. supineAnimation

    supineAnimation Professional

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    Go with Nalbandian. Guy has the sickest two-hander since Agassi and uses both arms beautifully and exactly the way you should. Try finishing your stroke with the racquet on the other side of your right arm rather than over your shoulder. That'll help you extend more towards your target. A closed stance two-hander uses linear force, so you wanna step into the shot and use your legs to push your hips forward into the shot, and engage your core so your upper will slow down and allow your arms to come through with free energy. Try using your right arm for the entire takeback and the initiation of the forward swing before engaging your left.
     
    #10
  11. Ultra2HolyGrail

    Ultra2HolyGrail Hall of Fame

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    I'm sure you will figure it out. Whatever you get the most power with and feels natural will tell you. Don't put too much thought into extending, just keep it in mind. You just might need to hit through the ball a little more. Pace can be tough to generate with the two hander. I'm sure my techinique could probably be improved to get more pace. Maybe i am extending too much. I think i hit my backhand more like connors, a straight takeback and flat swing path. Safin, nalbandian-etc seem to have a low to high whippy kind of motion.
     
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  12. aimr75

    aimr75 Hall of Fame

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    supine, i will take a look at nalbandians, i havent focussed on his much

    ultra, with the extension, i might just try the "hit through 3 balls" visualisation and see what happens.. it might help
     
    #12
  13. Nellie

    Nellie Hall of Fame

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    For good extension, it helps me to think of the 2hbh is a pushing (or punching) with the backhand side (your left) arm, rather than a swing.

    Also, try to hold your max extension for 1 second and then finish over the shoulder to become more aware of your extension. It is one of those things where you swear you have good extension, but video will show otherwise. With good extension, you should feel like you might fall over but then step forward/ finish over the shoulder to recover your balance.
     
    #13
  14. ho

    ho Semi-Pro

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    you basicly hit with a pull stroke. the key of pull stroke is to extend your arm out STRAIGHT when the ball is hitted.
    There is several ways to do it, but the easiest way is to drop your left hand to your chest and stay there. when you do that, you will stop the rotation of your left shoulder, by kinetic chain, your right shoulder will move forward, and you hit thru the ball.
    stand near a wall use a pencil to mark your right shoulder where it finished in 3 different way:
    1. left arm drop to the chest
    2. left arm wave around
    3. left arm point longer to the target

    you will see which motion extend your shoulder more (means your arm will extended more)
    look at the left hand of this guy. he may agree with me
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ImeQaAyFPc
     
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2010
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  15. aimr75

    aimr75 Hall of Fame

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    thanks will try this :)

    ah, it was a reference to the left hand dominance with the 2hbh, but i see what you mean on the forehand
     
    #15
  16. panatta

    panatta Rookie

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    Nice shot, aimr75...
    A question: for my two-handed backhand I use an extreme eastern grip for my dominant hand and a western grip for my non dominant.
    Can someone tell me, please, which professional players use this combination of grips?
    Thank you
     
    #16
  17. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    Well, your 1hbh slice is one of the worst, ugliest, least effort attempts ever, so you better not repeat that one ....ever.
    Yeah, 2hbh looks on the way. Maybe more effort, try to hit the ball, not just return it from whence it came.
     
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  18. decades

    decades Guest

    I have been experimenting with Borg's backhand technique. Anything wrong with that? low to high. letting go of the stick....
     
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  19. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    Only problem is Borg's era, the ball was mostly LOW incoming, while modern daze, the ball his much higher incoming.
    Letting go is a personal thing.
    Borg was unusual. Low heartbeat, skinny legs, really stable torso, eyes like an eagle, steady head.
     
    #19
  20. ho

    ho Semi-Pro

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    i'm sorry, i paste the wrong one, that's for forehand
    on the 2hbh, several people use different technique, some hit with left hand, some hit with right hand, some hit with 60 left, 40 right and so on.
    But the real power and easiest way to hit the 2hbh is to hit with your body. There is no hand in it, absolutely not. Only the rotation of your body, that about all you need to do. Body is your most powerfull muscle, why not use them ? check out most all pro, they rotate 2 arm and body in one unit forward, at contact, push out your arm and follow far out.
    to me, 2hbh if you hit with your body, it's be the easiest stroke to do, there is no room for errors.
    Really, i was surprise when people try to complicate the easiest mechanic.
     
    #20
  21. ho

    ho Semi-Pro

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    it's hard to know, but if you still have problem with your 2HBH, do not pay attention to the grip too much, the real power is rotate arm and body in one unit, hitting shoulder is under your chin at the beginning of the forward motion.
    As far as grip, feel free to try different combination, (i use continental at the bottom and eastern on top, that alow me to hit thru the ball more). if some kind of combination that you see you can extend far out more, then that the favorite. 2HBH hit with your body, NO HAND IN IT set aside grip. until the ball is hitted, then the grip will give you the kind of extension out. As i see, you probably do not master your 2HBH yet. if you have a video, then we can help you out.
    Do not try to complicate the stroke at all. Just remember one thing: hit with your body.
     
    #21
  22. aimr75

    aimr75 Hall of Fame

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    The slice is my worst shot and i dont pay enough attention to it.. i obviously need to improve it, and i want to improve it, so i am not going to stop attempting it

    its a new shot for me, why would i be trying to hit out when i still need to understand the mechanics of the shot?

    no worries ho, thanks for that
     
    #22
  23. bhupaes

    bhupaes Professional

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    aimr75, you have a very natural 2-hander. IMO, all you need to do is keep practicing it until you get a feel for what makes it work. Took me a long time to make it a weapon, but you'll probably get there much quicker than I. In the end, I got the best results when I tried to make my 2hbh as similar to a lefty forehand as I could. Hitting lefty forehands against the wall helped me a lot. All the best!
     
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  24. aimr75

    aimr75 Hall of Fame

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    ^ thanks bhupaes

    I went out and had a hit on the wall and tried to implement a few things, but mostly, still just trying to feel comfortable with it..

    here is some slo mo (240fps) of the wall hit:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qhmmz1qWBRk

    I threw in a couple slices backhands just for LeeD too ;)
     
    #24
  25. Bud

    Bud Bionic Poster

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    I like the look of your 2HBH better as it appears more fundamentally solid. It seems you're more of a natural 2HBH player.

    As you play the 2-hander more you'll gradually work out the dominance between the right and left hands.

    When I hit the 2HBH I try and visualize the same swing path as my SW FH while focusing on the left hand (SW left hand, continental right).

    It looks like it's coming along pretty well, IMO. After a year it will feel much more natural.

    I was also one of those people who switched from a 1HBH to a 2HBH (about a year ago). I recall how little confidence I had in the stroke during matches... but I just persisted and forced myself to keep hitting it (rather than the slice).

    Agreed. Your 2HBH looks like your natural shot. For me it felt weird, awkward, powerless, etc. I think you're ahead of most people who switch. Coming from a 1HBH, I assume you have a fairly decent slice... so you have an added benefit that many native 2HBH players never develop.

    I know some guys who are 4.0+ with great 2HBH's... but I chuckle a bit when they attempt a slice (it's not pretty).
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2010
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  26. aimr75

    aimr75 Hall of Fame

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    ^ thanks bud, actually my slice isnt the best since even with a 1hbh, i didnt use it much.. but you can see my slice (last 2 shots in that slo mo vid)

    i dont mind developing my 2hbh and see where it goes.. one thing i like in particular was how much easier it was to deal with very deep balls..
     
    #26
  27. bhupaes

    bhupaes Professional

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    Again, very good. And if that doesn't make LeeD happy, I don't know what will! :)
     
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  28. Limpinhitter

    Limpinhitter Legend

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    I like your 2h'er better than your slice. On the slice, you allow your wrist to straighten on the downswing just before contact, causing you to lose the angle of your arm to your racquet. This is an unecessary variable which will cause you to loose control of the shot. Try to lock the wrist in position so that your arm and racquet are at a fixed angle to each other, and maintain that angle throughout the swing and follow through.

    The 2 hander looks like you've been doing it all of your life. Very natural.
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2010
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  29. aimr75

    aimr75 Hall of Fame

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    ^ thanks, will try not to break that "L" shape.. will keep that in mind, next time i have a hit

    again, thanks, comments like these are encouraging and unexpected..
    cheers
     
    #29
  30. Sandwichman

    Sandwichman Rookie

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    I agree, I think you're hitting the ball too close to your body.
     
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  31. xFullCourtTenniSx

    xFullCourtTenniSx Hall of Fame

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    Yeah... I actually like the backhand much more than the forehand.

    The forehand could use more of your shoulders and hips into the shot. Your arm is generating most of the power but is so loose that you pretty much lose all of the power you got from rotating your shoulders and hips. Some looked absolutely solid, but that was when there was almost no delay from the shoulder rotation to contact. It seems like you are making contact too far out in front, and as a result you try to slow down your arm mid motion, and as a result end up losing a lot of power. With a two handed backhand, it's a little more difficult to pull this off as rotating your shoulders pretty much means the shot isn't going to stop until you finished your follow through.

    If you need to work on anything, it's mostly going to be feel for the ball and confidence. The feel for the ball will just help you take a cut at the ball without fear that you hit it too short, too long, or too far off to the side; basically getting used to it and learning to work with it as a weapon.
     
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  32. aimr75

    aimr75 Hall of Fame

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    ^ as ive been working on and developing the forehand, my arm/wrist has gotten more and more loose.. as seen here

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MEhvlZyz_8U

    and i tend to hit out in front as i dont have much of a double bend.. but i dont think these are as much of the root of my problems on that wing than the hips/shoulder core rotation and how im utilising it.. i am aware of issues that i have on that wing.. i tend to lock my hips out with my footwork and tend to step out and unit turn in the wrong sequence.. this all leads to a loss in power due to inefficient loading.. there are many aspects of my game i have issues with, but slowly i am addressing them
     
    #32
  33. Dechizen

    Dechizen Banned

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    Wow technique wise it looks great, i think if you continue like that for a couple of months you will have a solid two hander
     
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  34. xFullCourtTenniSx

    xFullCourtTenniSx Hall of Fame

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    Hitting out in front is okay if your body is still close enough to support it, but you're reaching for the ball. You're taking it out at least 6-12" farther out in front that you should.

    Your shoulders should be driving your arm to the ball. And your hips (if you use them, which at this point you should) should be increasing the force you can generate with your shoulders. You get a little bit of hip action, and an okay shoulder action, but then you stop it because you're catching the ball so far out in front. You end up reaching for the ball and lose a lot of the power you got from loading.

    You catch it so far out in front that your body realizes it and slows down to try and let the ball catch up. As a result, you end up guiding a lot of your forehands. Try letting the ball come in an extra split second and see how that goes. Let the shoulders drive the racket into the ball.
     
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  35. aimr75

    aimr75 Hall of Fame

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    will give this a go..
     
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  36. papa

    papa Hall of Fame

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    Well, this sounds like something I would have said so I certainly agree with your assessment but not sure he's hitting the ball "that" far out front - you might be right but I think it may be just a couple of inches, he does overreach in one or two of the shots instead of waiting or moving his feet (little steps) which is what I would prefer.

    Anyway, this guy is a good athlete/player and probably could go much further with a little help. The shots are lacking in "pop" which with some adjustments/work can be fairly simply corrected. Background noise must be somewhat confusing also.
     
    #36
  37. Djokovicfan4life

    Djokovicfan4life Legend

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    Your one handed backhand is fine, from what I can remember. Why waste time learning a new stroke when you could use that time to make your one hander even better?
     
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  38. aimr75

    aimr75 Hall of Fame

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    ^ i had an eye opening experience when i hit with a guy recently who at one time earned some ATP points. I was keeping up with him, particularly on the forehand wing, but he dismantled my backhand when he really started cranking it up.. obviously i am outside of his league, but it still made me question how stable i could be on that wing, hence dabbling with the 2hbh
     
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  39. xFullCourtTenniSx

    xFullCourtTenniSx Hall of Fame

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    The slow motion video he posted shows him clearly reaching.
     
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  40. aimr75

    aimr75 Hall of Fame

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    ^ If i was over reaching in every forehand then there would be major problems, but i do not.. i may have a tendency to do so, but it is something which i dont think will be difficult to correct, so i dont think it really requires much further discussion, id rather this stick to the 2hbh as i originally posted anyway
     
    #40
  41. xFullCourtTenniSx

    xFullCourtTenniSx Hall of Fame

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    Backhand looks solid. Just need to keep practicing and developing more feel on it as well as slowly adding more hip and shoulder action just to increase racket head speed. Don't overdo it obviously, as it'll come with time anyway.

    And in this video, you're reaching.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MEhvlZyz_8U

    When you see great groundstrokes, there's a certain compactness about them that's unmistakable. Your forehand lacks that. However, your backhand does a good job of staying compact and getting the whole body into the motion.

    For your forehand, you're pulling off a little. It's hard to explain. It's mostly just whipping the arm and wrist. It's just a look of balance that your forehand lacks.
     
    #41
  42. chico9166

    chico9166 Guest

    Well, he is using a straight arm, so the contact point is further forward and further away in a lateral sense. So it's difficult to compare double bend and straight arm contact point references. An apples and oranges kinda thing. I also disagree with the over-rotated comment. He looks pretty "squared up" at impact. The hips and shoulders are pretty much parallel to the baseline at contact, his center of gravity is still within his base, and his posture is good.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 19, 2010
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