2nd serve pts won for 1992-1999 - corrected stats

Discussion in 'Former Pro Player Talk' started by slice serve ace, Jul 10, 2013.

  1. slice serve ace

    slice serve ace Rookie

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    those not familliar with the issue can read through this thread
    http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=207411

    and this


    grand slam matches on atp site, for whatever reason, counted aces and double faults twice from 1992 untill US Open 1999...from that tournament on stats are correct...important - only grand slam matches have wrong stats, the rest of the tour has correct stats (the only exception here is frankfurt world championships 1992)

    how do i know - making stats is my hobby, and i have tons of matches from all slams in the 90s...i notticed the difference and the pattern pretty soon

    what makes me believe that all GS matches untill 2000 have wrong stats - well, my sample size is about 200 matches from pretty much all these slams...and never, not once did the stats match one another, the difference always being aces and double faults counted twice (i'll explain how that works little later)

    if only some and not all matches are "infected", i should be able to hit some of the matches with correct stats by now...but zilch


    ok, so how does it work for the 2nd serve - here, some random example...

    henman vs sampras wimbledon 98
    per atp henman is 27/64 on 2nd serve pts won and has 10 double faults
    real stat for henman is 27/54



    the more double faults in a year at grand slams player hits, the more wrong ATP stats are. so by extracting double faults player made during the year at grand slams should get us more correct number. however, even that number is not entirely correct because doublecounting of DFs is not the only error from atp site. we don't have stats from DC matches, grand slam cup matches, matches that end 8-6 or higher in the 5th set are missing stats from that final set etc. but doublecounting DFs is the biggest error by far, and makes the most confusion

    i should mention that i added stats from davis cup and grand slam cup matches if i had them for a player

    also, i didn't touch 1991, as krosero told me that year might have correct stats

    so the lists below are not exactly correct, but much closer to reality than ATP lists. and pretty much as close as we can get


    so here goes. mostly top 10 for the year, sometimes more


    1992

    1. stich......... 1044/1807 - 57.8%
    2. courier....... 1405/2531 - 55.5%
    3. agassi......... 785/1425 - 55.1%
    4. edberg....... 1355/2462 - 55%
    5. ivanišević... 1346/2452 - 54.9%
    6. masur........ 1002/1831 - 54.7%
    7. bruguera...... 930/1718 - 54.1%
    8. krajicek...... 1246/2307 - 54%
    9. steeb.......... 979/1817 - 53.9%
    10. lendl........ 1398/2602 - 53.7%
    11. mancini...... 680/1268 - 53.6%
    12. muster....... 773/1442 - 53.6%
    13. mansdorf.. 1077/2010 - 53.6%
    14. sampras... 1355/2542 - 53.3%


    1993

    1. muster...... 1529/2660 - 57.5%
    2. courier...... 1308/2320 - 56.4%
    3. chang....... 1481/2650 - 55.9%
    4. mansdorf... 1184/2142 - 55.3%
    5. sampras.... 1701/3126 - 54.4%
    6. washington 1051/1935 - 54.3%
    7. bruguera.... 1374/2535 - 54.2%
    8. volkov....... 1455/2712 - 53.7%
    9. ivanišević... 1315/2451 - 53.7%
    10. stich........ 1773/3322 - 53.4%


    1994

    1. agassi....... 972/1755 - 55.4%
    2. chang...... 1449/2635 - 55%
    3. sampras... 1519/2780 - 54.6%
    4. muster..... 1342/2463 - 54.5%
    5. palmer....... 786/1454 - 54.1%
    6. washington 998/1852 - 53.9%
    7. martin..... 1291/2399 - 53.8%
    8. courier...... 964/1792 - 53.8%
    9. larsson...... 773/1441 - 53.5%
    10. edberg... 1163/2170 - 53.6%





    1995

    1. agassi..... 1151/2013 - 57.2%
    2. muster.... 1641/2997 - 54.8%
    3. chang..... 1601/2923 - 54.8%
    4. courier.... 1304/2374 - 54.9%
    5. rios.......... 882/1622 - 54.4%
    6. steven..... 763/1408 - 54.2%
    7. siemerink 1038/1938 - 53.6%
    8. sampras. 1739/3250 - 53.5%
    9. reneberg.. 846/1585 - 53.4%
    10. costa.... 593/1120 - 52.9%
    11. larsson.. 773/1464 - 52.8%
    12. martin.. 1078/2045 - 52.7%
    13. stich... 1098/2089 - 52.6%
    14. ivanišević 1198/2293 - 52.2%
    15. schaller.. 717/1378 - 52%


    1996

    1. muster..... 1436/2612 - 55%
    2. sampras... 1427/2606 - 54.8%
    3. rafter........ 711/1312 - 54.2%
    4. courier...... 769/1420 - 54.2%
    5. clavet....... 945/1749 - 54%
    6. chang..... 1700/3163 - 53.7%
    7. raoux....... 855/1593 - 53.7%
    8. spadea..... 805/1511 - 53.3%
    9. ivanišević 1717/3225 - 53.2%
    10. costa..... 943/1771 - 53.2%


    1997

    1. rusedski... 1407/2503 - 56.2%
    2. sampras... 1010/1815 - 55.6%
    3. rios......... 1552/2846 - 54.5%
    4. costa........ 745/1377 - 54.1%
    5. chang...... 1468/2731 - 53.8%
    6. muster..... 1128/2098 - 53.8%
    7. raoux........ 916/1708 - 53.6%
    8. rafter...... 1483/2774 - 53.5%
    9. krajicek... 1143/2148 - 53.2%
    10. korda.... 1429/2686 - 53.2%



    1998

    1. rios.......... 1231/2146 - 57.4%
    2. rafter .......1142/2076 - 55%
    3. raoux....... 1047/1912 - 54.8%
    4. rusedski.... 1337/2447 - 54.6%
    5. krajicek.... 1062/1963 - 54.1%
    6. agassi ......1123/2089 - 53.8%
    7. mantilla.... 1117/2091 - 53.4%
    8. clavet...... 1024/1918 - 53.4%
    9. spadea...... 758/1422 - 53.3%
    10. siemerink 1163/2183 - 53.3%
    11. muster..... 838/1578 - 53.1%
    12. sampras. 1316/2479 - 53.1%


    1999

    1. agassi.... 1148/2004 - 57.3%
    2. courier.... 761/1359 - 56%
    3. sampras.. 800/1446 - 55.3%
    4. hewitt... 1021/1849 - 55.2%
    5. rusedski 1168/2136 - 54.7%
    6. rafter...... 769/1413 - 54.4%
    7. rios....... 1074/1990 - 54%
    8. corretja 1157/2164 - 53.4%
    9. clavet..... 911/1708 - 53.3%
    10. costa.... 838/1587 - 52.8%
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2013
    #1
  2. krosero

    krosero Legend

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    Slice Serve Ace, thanks for this tremendous effort. This should now be the go-to place when we want to see 2nd serve stats from the 90s.

    The 1999 French Open might be an exception. As I noted in my thread, a boxscore in the Globe and Mail has Agassi trailing Medvedev 144-152 in total points won in the final: the ATP has Agassi at 145 though all their other numbers line up with the stats in the boxscore.

    I've tried w/o luck to find stats for other rounds in that tournament. Maybe the ATP has correct stats only for the final, who knows.

    Yes, in 1991 I have not found any double-counting and I've confirmed that the ATP has correct stats at least for these matches:

    - Becker-Lendl, AO final
    - Courier-Agassi, RG final
    - Stich-Edberg, Wimbledon semifinal
    - Stich-Becker, Wimbledon final
    - Connors-Krickstein, USO R16
     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2013
    #2
  3. krosero

    krosero Legend

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    The ATP has no stats at all for certain GS rounds: at 1991 RG they're missing R128 and R32 entirely. At 1997 AO they're missing the R32.

    They're also missing the R32 at Wimbledon '96, with the exception of one match: Krajicek-Steven. But the numbers they have for that match are way off: they've got each man winning 73% of the points in the match: http://www.atpworldtour.com/Players/Head-To-Head.aspx?pId=K214&oId=S321.

    Anyway all the (correct) third-round stats for that year at Wimbledon can be found here:
    http://web.archive.org/web/19970130121112/www.wimbledon.org/live/resulndx3.html (June 28-29).
     
    #3
  4. abmk

    abmk G.O.A.T.

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    Slice Serve ace,

    Great work. Thanks for posting. :)
     
    #4
  5. 2ndServe

    2ndServe Professional

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    good stuff
     
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