4.0 doubles

Discussion in 'Adult League & Tournament Talk' started by Playtennis, Jun 2, 2013.

  1. Playtennis

    Playtennis New User

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    Any doubles players s/v exclusively? Who does? Any " rules " you follow to s/v or stay back?
     
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  2. Nostradamus

    Nostradamus G.O.A.T.

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    There are no rules, man. Be smart and use different court positioning and change it up. Serve and volley70 % of the time. stay back and use topspin lobs against netrushers.

    must practice I-formations. It is not only for advanced or pro level players. It works in Amateur level but stupid amateur 4.0's think it is too hard to do and they try it only once and if it doesn't work the stop. LOL
     
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  3. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    Nobody does ONE thing every single time.
    You gotta play the percentages, and use your smarts.
    Even dedicated S/V players will stay back when they know a lob return is coming, or if the returner is going DTL against his netman.
     
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  4. jonnyjack

    jonnyjack Rookie

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    Completely agree with this, haha.
     
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  5. dizzlmcwizzl

    dizzlmcwizzl Hall of Fame

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    In 4.0 getting both of you to the net as quickly and as often as possible is key to success.

    Sure, you can have some success staying back. Also, you should avoid doing the same thing every time. However, nothing in 4.0 tennis is as challenging as being at the baseline with two competent net players hanging on the net.

    Sure, you can lob but competent net players will usually win that battle.
     
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  6. Cindysphinx

    Cindysphinx G.O.A.T.

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    Yeah, what the heck?

    I swear, people call themselves 4.0 doubles players but they can't do anything but plain vanilla doubles. Geez, it happens all the time:

    "Oh, man. We're getting smoked. What are we gonna do?"

    "Let's change it up. Let's try I formation."

    "No, I don't know how to do that."

    "Um, OK. How about Aussie? You line up at net on the same side as me, and I will cross to cover the DTL. All you have to do is stand there and prevent the crosscourt return."

    "No, that's too much to remember."

    "All right. How about a signaled poach?"

    "Too confusing."

    "OK. How about this? I'll serve up the middle, and you poach if you can reach it and I will cross behind."

    "Nah. I can't poach with my backhand."

    "Never mind. Let's just keep losing."
     
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  7. maggmaster

    maggmaster Hall of Fame

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    HAHA I love that post Cindy, it is entirely too true though.
     
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  8. jonnyjack

    jonnyjack Rookie

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    Hahahahahaha. I'm going to steal that line next time I play with someone who doesn't want to change things up.
     
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  9. OrangePower

    OrangePower Hall of Fame

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    I agree that Australian and I are good tools to have.
    But not always effective and often they are not the answer when things are going badly.
    Sometimes you are better off making other adjustments before going to alternate formations.
    It really is situational.
     
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  10. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    Most of the time, in 4.0 doubles, we lose points thru our own mistakes, either strokes or strategy. Changing our formations is a very small, obscure part of changing our losing game into a winning game.
    We can affect a positive change just by getting good first serves IN, and returning sharp low CC.
     
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  11. Cindysphinx

    Cindysphinx G.O.A.T.

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    It is indeed situational.

    But formations are some of the easiest changes to make. It's much harder to hit different types of shots (e.g lobs, slices, angles) if you don't already own those shots.

    Formations are something anyone can do, and they are very effective at making the opponent beat you with their Plan B.
     
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  12. Nostradamus

    Nostradamus G.O.A.T.

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    Ok then just tell her if she doesn't do what you tell her to do, she will Never play on your team as long you are the captain. I will bet she will do it then
     
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  13. OrangePower

    OrangePower Hall of Fame

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    Well, maybe. Formations don't help you on your return games of course. On your service games, it is tempting to try change formations when you are not holding serve... but often there are more fundamental things that should be tried first, like changing the types of serve you are going for, or just going for less on the first serve in order to get a higher percentage.

    One of the most basic winning strategies in doubles is S & V, and the most direct and uncomplicated (and least error-prone) path to the net for the server comes with the traditional formation. You give this up somewhat as the price for challenging your opponents with a different formation.
     
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  14. chatt_town

    chatt_town Hall of Fame

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    Yes...I pretty much serve and volley on both first and second in doubles....and my serve is weak most days and pretty good very seldom, but the key in doubles especially 4.0 is getting it in deep and moving it around(right ladies).lol Seriously...the quicker you get to the net the better your chance of winning the point and the game and match..lol


     
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  15. OrangePower

    OrangePower Hall of Fame

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    Actually it's more for rec than for pro players. Pro players play regular formation 90%+ of the time, since it is the most effective when done right - easiest path for the server to get to net.

    Here's a 8min highlight reel of this year's Indian Wells dubs final. My favorite tournament, and this is some of the best dubs you will ever see. Really great stuff. Anyway, count how many times they use Australian or I...

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N7Ht8jLKd0s
     
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  16. chatt_town

    chatt_town Hall of Fame

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    I can tell you this about I as well as Ausi...if your serve isn't worth a flip that day you may get your partner's balls knocked off and then you'll be posting in the "Have you been nailed in the groin thread"...lol I love it when I come out and and someone tries to run I with the serve dropping a foot over the net. Talk about target practice.lol


     
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  17. Cindysphinx

    Cindysphinx G.O.A.T.

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    Formations can help you on your return games. Playing two back is a formation that can be helpful if you are losing. I don't know why, but some opponents will struggle with two back. They feel like they ought to hit drop shots when they don't own a drop shot. They feel like they should blast the ball and will overhit. They no longer have their usual targets for volleying and will try angles that aren't there. And if their volley technique is poor you can run down their volleys and start the point.

    Regarding S&V . . . if my partner and I could S&V effectively, we wouldn't be getting crushed! And most people my level and below do not have different types of serves, so changing the type of serve is not an option. I'm not saying you are wrong, but we do have to recognize that the reason people are rated where they are is that they lack certain skills.

    I have turned around entire matches using various formations or mixing things up, so I think it is important to have those tools at our disposal. A very common situation is that the returner is blasting returns for winners or making the approach volley too difficult. That is because they have their crosscourt return dialed in. Well, I like to line up Aussie to see if they can go DTL, or use signals to get them to think about what return must be used.

    Once you know how to play using different formations and tactics, you still have to use the right tool for the job. You still have to know why you are losing, of course.
     
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  18. Cindysphinx

    Cindysphinx G.O.A.T.

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    You proved my point. :)

    Pros don't need formations. They have all the shots, and they are not distracted or intimidated by tomfoolery.

    Rec players have weaknesses; you just have to find them. Formations can expose weaknesses that can allow you to turn around a match sometimes.
     
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  19. OrangePower

    OrangePower Hall of Fame

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    ^^^^^ :)

    That's some great dubs though, isn't it. I saw both teams playing in person earlier in the tournament but I wasn't there for the finals. They are even more impressive live.
     
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  20. schmke

    schmke Professional

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    Agreed. I also saw both earlier in the tournament live and was inspired.

    Janowicz/Huey took out the Murrays despite Andy's best efforts and Janowicz's serve and forehand have to be seen in person to appreciate them, and he can volley too. Huey is a prime example of how you don't have to be tall to be an outstanding doubles player.

    Also saw the Bryan's take out Isner/Querrey and the way they just dissected them and their big serves was astounding. Don't let anyone ever tell you that you can't step inside the baseline and take a 140 mph serve on the rise as the Bryan's did it nearly every serve.
     
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  21. LuckyR

    LuckyR Legend

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    Pretty much yes. In fact I almost always Chip and Charge service returns too.
     
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