4.5jumping to open in pursuit of 1glorious atp point

Discussion in 'Adult League & Tournament Talk' started by yonexpurestorm, Jun 18, 2011.

  1. yonexpurestorm

    yonexpurestorm Rookie

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    sorry for the late reply CStennis, i dont get on this site as much as before. ill try and answer your q's for what its worth.

    i actually feel my serve has always been pretty good and one of the stronger parts of my game. the problem i noticed as i played better and better players is that my first serve % is not as strong as it should be. when i would have to rely on my second, it would get attacked by the better players. this would essentially force me to have to hit weaker, but higher % first serves and i wouldnt get the free points i was used to. i also noticed how inconsistent my serve can be. some days im bombing aces, others i cant find the service box.
    the better players i play have big serves that are consistent. some of them are real fast, but others are just placed well. some guys have real good spin and it takes a while to adjust. i think one of the bigger problems is that when i play some of the higher players, their serves are much better than im used to and it takes at least 3 games to adjust.

    fitness is probably one of the most important things i have noticed. especially for older guys like me when playing against some of these college kids. when im playing some of the better guys out there i find myself able to hit with them and play really fun and competitive fast paced points. however, the next point i cannot give 110% like i did on the previous point. this is situation that seems to happen to me a lot in open tournaments. we will start out having good fast paced play for 3 to 4 games, going serve for serve. then we will come to my serve and have some long points where i had to go all out to keep my self in the game. eventually it goes to 30 all and we begin to go all out again, but this is when i lose a step and make a dumb error or give an opportunity for an easy winner. being tired, i dont get the pop behind my serve that i normally should and either cant equal the score, or if i do going to duece and back to ad a few times really kills me. eventually i get broken and lost the first set 3-6 or 4-6. the next set kind of works the same way, except now im even more tired. its my fault for not being in better shape, but lately time has not been my friend to improve upon this. in order to win, you have to be in shape to give 110% on every point. these guys are so good that if your not they will exploit your weakness every chance they get.
     
  2. yonexpurestorm

    yonexpurestorm Rookie

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    i would say stick with playing open tournaments as much as you can. i never played any ITF tournaments, but i assume they are the same. being in atlanta i am sure they are no shortages of good tournaments with good competition. i think on of the things that has held me back a lot is the pressure that comes along with playing tournaments. i frequently get in pressure situations and will allow myself to tighten up and lose crucial points. the more tournaments you play the better you will become at winning in pressure situations. it is also a good idea to play down a level a few times to get the feeling of winning and how to do it.

    another thing that you have to focus on is increasing the number and quality of hitting/practicing partners. you will only become as good as the hitting partners you play against. also try and have a mix of them, a few lefties, serve and volleyers, baseliners, guys with big serves, basically try and prepare yourself for different playing styles. a problem i see myself running into frequently is when i play some college kid that beats me pretty handily doesnt have any need for me as a practice partner, since he plays daily with kids just as good as him. whenever i play a tournament i will always ask the guy after the match where he lives and usually exchange numbers to practice later. ultimate tennis is also good for this. however, i have noticed lately that i have been able to beat my practice partners more than before. as you get better the pool of players to practice with will get smaller and smaller.

    theres really not any great advice i could give, especially since my results havent been the greatest. being in so cal with the competition as good as it is the only thing that i can do is work on fitness and practice. however, practice smart. practice tactics and strategy along with shots. ill assume your strokes are pretty good. usually at the higher levels ppl all have very good strokes. it comes down to how well you can execute, how smart and where you are hitting your shots, can you find and exploit your opponnents weakness better than him to you, can you outlast your opponent, who performs better under pressure and so on.

    good luck on getting your points, but just enjoy the ride. i am fully aware ill never make any money playing tennis, but just getting to go to some of these events and play guys that are that much better than me is fun. i like the atmosphere and the chance to pull off an upset against some top players. also, try and not get frustrated. i let this happen to me in the beginning, but eventually tried to use every match as a learning experience.
     
  3. Murrayalmagrofan

    Murrayalmagrofan Semi-Pro

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    So to bring this thread back from the dead...

    What are your plans for 2013? Has your NTRP changes at all after having played all of these open tournaments over the last 2 years?
     
  4. yonexpurestorm

    yonexpurestorm Rookie

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    i have really fallen back on the training this year. in the last few weeks i have only played a few times. two of those days were in a tournament. ive been really busy and my tennis practice has suffered. for some reason my motivation just isnt there right now. ive put back on a few pounds and am definitely not making any progress right now.

    all that said, in my last tournament i did take out a seeded player in the first round, but then proceeded to play like crap and get crushed in the next round. i just started eating healthy again about a week ago and got a hit in yesterday and felt pretty good. in march i am playing in the tri level nationals at indian wells, and am going to sign up for a local open tournament. i would like to do well in both of these so i am going to try and ramp up my tennis schedule again and really try and get fit enough to compete.

    for 2013 i have the same goals as last year that i didnt accomplish. i still would like to win a small local open tournament, i would prefer to win the hb open. i would like to go a good number of rounds in one of the futures qualifiers that come here in the summer. i would also like to get a win against someone that has an atp ranking.

    to do all this i need to get back down to my ideal weight around 175. i need to really work on backhand consistency and not allowing people to exploit it. most importantly i need to get in tournament shape. i need to not allow my legs to tire out and cause me to make errors because my footwork is sluggish.

    there is obviously much more that needs to be done before i am really going to have any semblance of a chance at a point, but so far i have really improved from where i was. hopefully in 2013 i will have some good results and then i can make this thread interesting again.
     
  5. jdubbs

    jdubbs Hall of Fame

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    Just a thought...you might want to hire a trainer and maybe a nutritionist. You can do this pretty inexpensively relative to your goals.
    I am travelling for a few months starting in May and want to get in super shape for surfing, hiking, tennis etc and so hired a trainer and she shocked me by how much work ai needed to do to get in shape...I thought i was in shape, but not even close.
    Seeing a nutrionist this week as well to get betterr eating habits. You are trying to compete at very high levels so why not get the tools that can help you succeed if those are the areas that are giving you problems. Just a thought. Best of luck.
     
  6. Murrayalmagrofan

    Murrayalmagrofan Semi-Pro

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    Thanks for taking to time to provide such a detailed update. Hopefully, you can get into fighting shape within the next couple of months and do well this season.

    I'm also *considering* making the jump to open this season, but I'm quite a bit older than you (35 yrs). I'm planning to start off the season playing three 4.5 NTRP tournaments, and depending on how things shake-out, making the jump to open around the summer. As I live in Virginia, I couldn't play frequently over the winter, so I've really worked on my fitness and strength. So I feel like I'm starting my 2013 season at a much higher fitness level than ever before.
    Interesting suggestion. I'm a member of a gym where these services are available to members are quite inexpensive prices.

    Something to consider for sure...
     
  7. MarinaHighTennis

    MarinaHighTennis Professional

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    Yonex your goals sound great but you do know that winning in opens, you gotta play everyday thats where the problem lies for most people including me. Also, you cant just play for fun. Everytime you come out for tennis, there has to be something to improve after the training session. Even though i love tennis amd would like to get that good, i find that that kond of mentality to "win" would reallybmake me hate the sport
     
  8. doug9238

    doug9238 New User

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    Here is how to do it (and why most don't)

    Here is how to get the one point that you are seeking:

    #1 - get down to 8-10% bodyfat or less. You can't afford to be carrying extra weight or you will hurt yourself in the stress of the hard training. This is the point where you look down and see the hollywood six pack of abs. All rising and current tennis pros have it, and maybe the falling ones don't anymore and that partly explains why they are falling. This will take you anywhere from 3-6 months depending on how out of shape you are now. This will come with 80% diet and 20% exercise. Once you have acheieved this, you will have an A+ bodybuilder diet and a great exercise regimine as your base to begin the next steps.

    #2 - build a huge cardio base. Work up to the point where you are 40+ miles per week. You will be running 6 days per week and have a combination of a long run (15+miles), a tempo run (6-8 miles at 80% max HR) and speed work (10 800's @ 95% max HR). The other three days will be easy/recovery runs with one rest day. Depending on your shape, this will take 3+ months to get to this point. A good test to see if you are ready for the next step is when you can run a mile sub 5:50, 5K sub 20 minutes and a half marathon sub 1 hr 35 min. Once you pass this test, you are ready to move on.

    #3 Hit the gym hard. You need a ton of fast twitch muscle in your lower and upper body. You will achieve this by doing supersets and cicuits alternating days with upper body and lower body. Lower body exercises will be power squats, lunges, calf raises hip flexors and abductors. Upper body will be mainly core and back, along with wrist/forearm with a little chest and arms. This will be about 3 months. Your body will look a bit like a boxer once you are done with this phase. Next you will be ready to begin the tennis specific training

    #4 Find a great coach that you can work with a minimum of 3x per week for 1.5 hours per session. Plan you budget to be about $500 per month minimum for this service. Your coach will analyze your game and more than likely have you start over completely and teach you the basics, which will start with very fast and explosive footwork and and cat like reflexes. Even with all of the prep you did in steps 1-3, you will walk away from the training feeling like you body was run over by a truck, but since you put in your time with the diet, cardio and weights, you will recover quickly and make gains without getting injured. after about 6 months of training like this, you will begin to get muscle memory and be taking split steps on every shot without even thinking about it. You will instictively explode on the first and last step with every ball you hit. You will will take large steps and follow them up with tiny steps. You will wear out your shoes about a pair per month. You will get smart and purchase your shoes 6 pairs at a time. You will rarely even touch your heels on the tennis court. Plan on 6months to one year to get to this point, depending on your mental strength.

    #5 Once you are ready, your coach will teach you the technical aspects of the 5 types of shots. forehand, backhand, volley, overhead and serve. Then you will hit over 10,000 balls before the muscle memory kicks in and you can do them instinctively. You will hit 100 forehands crosscourt and miss 5 or less and no pushing. They will all be deep with topspin. Then you will do backhands and volleys. Once you can sustain this, you will have decent rally shots. Then you will work volleys, overheads and serves. You will work your serve on your own time, 4x per week 100 1st serves to both sides with 60% in and 100 2nd serves to both sides with 98% in. Plan on 6 months to achieve this

    #6 Next you will hit the tournaments. You will crush everyone so bad at a 4.5 tournament that it will not even be fun. You will find that you can hit winners without even bending your knees or even raising your heart rate. You will never touch a 4.5 tournament again. In the opens, you will win the matches and it will feel just like the training that you have been doing. You will realize that you play in the matches exactly the same way you have been hitting in training. No such thing as a good day and a bad day anymore. The variation in your game is minimal, and you act on instinct and not on emotion.

    7# Next you hit the qualies of the futures. Here it is a whole new game because you are facing some big leage spin and pace and variety that not even your coach was giving you. Your instincts tell you what to do and you have to rely on your fitness to get you to the ball every time. You will realize that you belong here, but everyone will play hard and the competition will be fierce. The mental toughness is what will win in the end along with a little luck and the wise shot selection on the few key points.

    from here the only way to elevate your game is to take your fitness to a new level and to increase mental toughness

    Those are the steps to get a few ATP points, and only in that order with no shortcuts. The adaptability of the human body is absolutely incredible and the honest truth is that most people are actually capable of achieving it, but the reason that 99.9% do not is because who would actually committ put themselves through the process described above, which is torturous to say the least.
     
  9. yonexpurestorm

    yonexpurestorm Rookie

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    very informative post. i honestly dont think i would have anywhere near the time to acheive all the steps you layed out. i also dont think i will ever get that point, but competing and maybe winning some local opens will be good enough for me for now. as long as im enjoying the ride im winning in my book.
     
  10. spinorama

    spinorama Rookie

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    Read some of this thread, sounds cool and sounds like you have progressed a lot. I'm surprised you beat David in bagels, you must be really improving fast.

    I'm always down to hit on weekends, let me know if you are ever up in the valley and would like to play a quick set
     
  11. aced_Tezuka

    aced_Tezuka Rookie

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    @doug
    I should follow this while I'm in college or after. If I were to follow this 100% I could play like the pro's lol.
     
  12. jdubbs

    jdubbs Hall of Fame

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    Best post I think I've ever seen here.
     
  13. jrs

    jrs Professional

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    Great post

    Great post - I am starting another thread with this Hope you don't mind
     
  14. yonexpurestorm

    yonexpurestorm Rookie

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    Just in case anyone is wondering, no i am not dead.

    i haven't posted in a while and figured i would give a brief update. this summer definitely didn't go as i would have liked. i am still far from my ideal weight and am not in the shape i need to be. for some reason this summer i have had zero motivation to play and get better. i think losing and not having any success sort of burns you out. even though i went undefeated in 4.5 league, i didn't feel the competition was very good and didn't consider those wins as any measure of success.

    for the last month i have been able to get my motivation back. i feel like i am finally playing well, but most importantly playing smarter. my bh is actually consistent and i am learning to rally with it, not over hitting it and making errors. ive been concentrating on form and really using my legs in my fh, which has really improved my accuracy and cut down on errors. however, during matches i find my legs getting tired and causing me to lose.

    i played a tournament in santa monica, and while i didnt win i took a guy to three sets that i lost to previously 0 and 0. i then made the finals in a small tournament and won 75 dollars. its a small amount, but any winnings is cool to receive. im still no where near where i would like to be, but any progress is good to have. i have a few more tournaments scheduled for the rest of the year and i hoping to post some decent results and maybe make a deep run in one of the larger tournaments.

    anyways, nothing really big to update, but figured i would revive my thread for anyone wondering if im even still playing.
     
  15. NLBwell

    NLBwell Legend

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    Glad you are still hacking away. There are always ups and downs with tennis; maybe you were burnt out a little. Glad you are playing better now and WINNING MONEY!
     
  16. TimeSpiral

    TimeSpiral Professional

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    Yes! Winning money is intensely more rewarding than I anticipated it would be. I was lucky enough to come away with a $250 gift certificate to my local pro shop. I was more happy than I care to admit.
     
  17. Govnor

    Govnor Professional

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    Nice one!! Don't give up!
     
  18. TennisProdigy

    TennisProdigy Semi-Pro

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    To the OP: I'll tell you a nice story to affirm that getting 1 ATP is by no means impossible. I first picked up a racquet at 16 years of age. My friend picked one up at 14 years of age, he is 20, I am 22. He just earned his first ATP point last month, his name is collin johns. We both played hard when we started, entering junior tournaments and practicing together. When I turned 18, I started college, while he continued to train (his goal for the start was to be a pro tennis player).

    Before we stopped practicing together however, I was able to watch him develop what I believe is the most unique skill on tour right now. As a junior, Collin failed at hitting a topspin backhand. Whether it be a OHBH or THBH, he could not hit one effectively. To solve this problem, he taught himself how to hit a right handed forehand and a left handed forehand. Through hard work, he overcame his backhand weakness, and through his dedication and tenacity, he is on his was to earning a living as a pro tennis player and realizing his dream!

    Moral of the story: never give up on any dream no matter what it is!
     
  19. TimeSpiral

    TimeSpiral Professional

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    Pics (video, preferably) or it didn't happen. :twisted:

    Half-kidding, naturally. I want to see it though, so, let's make with the video of this guy play low ATP level tennis with two forehands. Is he leaving his left hand chocked up on the racquet when hitting the 1HOHFH (one-handed off-hand forehand abbreviation = ha!).
     
  20. GRANITECHIEF

    GRANITECHIEF Hall of Fame

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    I'd like to see him match up with a guy that only hits backhands.

    That pretty awesome that the guy was able to get a point without a BH.

    It maybe debatable to say that he is on his way to earning a living as a pro tennis player but I wish him the best and hope he makes it onto a livestream or especially on TV soon! Sounds entertaining to watch.
     
  21. skiracer55

    skiracer55 Hall of Fame

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    There it is...

    ...ain't no shortcuts, and no gimmes, either. That is, you could do all this stuff and still not get that single ATP point. But you have to do all this or you won't even have a chance....which very few players will commit to ("Everybody wants to go to heaven, but nobody wants to die...")...
     
  22. goober

    goober Legend

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    I would say pretty much everybody on this board outside a handful of people could do all this stuff and not get an ATP point.
     
  23. TennisProdigy

    TennisProdigy Semi-Pro

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    Well his name is on the ATP rankings so you at least know he has a point. It would be pretty ridiculous for me to make up he hits two forehands, but I'm in optometry school at OSU in Ohio and he trains at the College Park Center at the University of Maryland, but when I go back home for X-mas I'll video him with my gopro for u :)

    Edit: addon - he does not choke up his left hand for the left handed forehand. But on the return he has both hands on the racquet so for the return his left hand is choked up.
     
  24. yonexpurestorm

    yonexpurestorm Rookie

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    two forehands would definitely be something interesting to see in a high level match. i know if my bh was simply a forehand that was as good as my regular fh, i would be much better than i am today.
     
  25. damazing

    damazing Rookie

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    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5P_B_-LU-ys

    Is this the guy with the two forehands? This looks like he is a lefty with a two handed backhand but it may not be the same guy.
     
  26. TennisProdigy

    TennisProdigy Semi-Pro

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    Haha funny you found this guy. Me, Collin Johns, and John Collins were all part of the mid-atlantic in juniors. But no, that is not Collin Johns, thats John Collins! Hilarious how their names r so similar.
     
  27. Moz

    Moz Hall of Fame

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    When I was at the Bath futures indoor tournament in England this year there was a chap playing with two forehands - and they were both bloody ugly shots.

    I believe it was this guy and he has a high ATP singles ranking of 687.

    http://www.itftennis.com/procircuit/players/player/profile.aspx?playerid=100143847
     
  28. mp2002

    mp2002 Rookie

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    Did OP ever get his point?
     
  29. maggmaster

    maggmaster Hall of Fame

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    No he is currently pretty successful in open tournaments which is a big step.
     
  30. GRANITECHIEF

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    Should have given the 3 Socal futures Q's happening now a shot.
     
  31. maggmaster

    maggmaster Hall of Fame

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    I am just going by what I read in the thread. I don't know how well he would do in Qs right now. Never seen him play in person.
     
  32. TennisCJC

    TennisCJC Legend

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    I agree. I think you would also have to start playing at 12 years of age or younger and do all the stuff in the list. And, even that would not work for everyone - those with very limited athletic ability or size or coordination or body limitations would struggle.

    But, I do think someone with decent coordination and physical size could get on the ATP tour if they started young, were committed, and did pretty much the subscribed stuff.
     
  33. MethodTennis

    MethodTennis Hall of Fame

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  34. goober

    goober Legend

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    Well I guess it depends on how you define successful. I don't think he has close to winning an open tournament or even going deep in one that has a sizable draw (32+). OTOH he has dominated 4.5 level players which he wasn't doing at the beginning of the thread.
     
  35. yonexpurestorm

    yonexpurestorm Rookie

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    i would agree with goober. ive had limited success in opens. i dont really have any chance at the moment of winning points. however, i have moved myself out of the 4.5 range. sadly, i have not been able to practice as much as i would like due to my work schedule. i have gotten a lot better, but no where near where i would need to be. the level of competition here in so cal is crazy. even small local tournaments draw some pretty good players.
     
  36. MarinaHighTennis

    MarinaHighTennis Professional

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    are you playing in top gun?
     
  37. jhick

    jhick Semi-Pro

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    Maverick, Goose, or Iceman?
     
  38. maggmaster

    maggmaster Hall of Fame

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    Sorry my definition of success is competitive play. Only one person wins a tennis tournament and half are knocked out in the first round. If you are putting up a good scoreline you are close to the level that you need to be to advance.
     
  39. yonexpurestorm

    yonexpurestorm Rookie

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    ya, im pretty sure im going to play in it. i just need to make sure i dont have any scheduling conflicts first.
     
  40. yonexpurestorm

    yonexpurestorm Rookie

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    i see what you are saying. sometimes losing int he second or third round seems early, but i forget that at least half the ppl are already gone.
     
  41. GoSurfBoy

    GoSurfBoy Semi-Pro

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  42. Murrayalmagrofan

    Murrayalmagrofan Semi-Pro

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    Thanks for this update!

    I haven't been on the board much lately, but came back to specifically check on your progress in this thread. Glad to see that your found your inspiration again! How did your final open tournaments of 2013 work out for you?

    I'm now a USTA computer-rated 4.5 and my coach had me make the jump to playing in USTA open tournaments this Fall/Winter. I've only played one so far back in November, but I made a run to the round of 16 (64 person draw), beating a current Div 3 player in the 1st round, a high school player in the 2nd round, before losing to a current Div 1 player in the Rd of 16.

    I'm playing in my second open tournament this coming weekend in both singles & doubles (playing with one of my buddy's who played Div 3 tennis).
     
  43. arche3

    arche3 Banned

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  44. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    Seems quite a few guys try the 2 forehand thing, as for most of us, our forehands are stronger and more consistent.
    My rightie forehand is both stronger and more consistent than my lefty, but I can't serve or hit topspin backhands with it. I do volley about the same with either hand.
    When I was playing tennis back in the 70's, there were at last 3 guys I knew who played forehands only.
    Now, I know exactly 3 guys who play with only forehands, but two of them are Open level players, while the other is just messing around.
    Personally, using tactical tennis, as opposed to pure power, I find the switch more daunting than the gains by having solid topspin off both sides.
     
  45. burn1986

    burn1986 Banned

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    Yeah, good update! I have been feeling the same lack of motivation myself. I am NTRP 4.0 but have started playing 4.5s and made it to the final of 2 tournaments in doubles but lost in the final in each. I've been playing better, but my fitness has held me back a little. Either way, excited to hear that you guys are bouncing back.
     
  46. Murrayalmagrofan

    Murrayalmagrofan Semi-Pro

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    Virginia
    A quick update - I lost in the 1st round in singles in three sets to a guy ranked at one point in the top 250 of his class on tennis recruiting. Doubles is going much better and I'm into the semifinals with my buddy. However, we play the #1 seeds next! :shock:
     
  47. Murrayalmagrofan

    Murrayalmagrofan Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2012
    Messages:
    404
    Location:
    Virginia
    Bump!

    So how has the 2014 season treated you yonexpurestorm?

    I made the jump to playing only open tournaments in 2014, and I'm now ranked in the top 50 in my Mid-Atlantic region (Virginia, DC, Maryland & West Virginia).

    Best result has been a semifinal run at one tournament. I also won the back-draw at a recent tournament I played, beating a high-school senior ranked in the top 20 in the state (according to TennisRecruiting) in the final.
     

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