40 Singles Titles in 4 Consecutive Years

Discussion in 'General Pro Player Discussion' started by McEnroeisanartist, Oct 25, 2012.

  1. McEnroeisanartist

    McEnroeisanartist Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2006
    Messages:
    2,199
    Do you think any player will ever again win 40 singles titles in 4 Years?

    Federer won 42 from 2004-2007.
    Borg won 42 from 1977-1980
    Connors won 49 from 1973-1976.

    Lendl won 39 from 1980-1983
    McEnroe won 34 from 1979-1982
    Sampras won 31 from 1994-1997
    Nadal won 30 from 2005-2008

    No other player has managed 30 singles titles in 4 years.
     
    #1
  2. Andres

    Andres G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2005
    Messages:
    12,541
    Location:
    Mar del Plata, Argentina
    Vilas won 34 from 1974-1977 or 1975-78 (since he won 7 on both 1974 and 78)
     
    #2
  3. Andres

    Andres G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2005
    Messages:
    12,541
    Location:
    Mar del Plata, Argentina
    Nastase won 39 in 4 years, 1971-1974.
     
    #3
  4. Andres

    Andres G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2005
    Messages:
    12,541
    Location:
    Mar del Plata, Argentina
    That's of course, only counting officially-recognized-ATP tournaments. If not, Nastase's would be very well into the 40s, and Vilas could scratch the 40s mark, as well.
     
    #4
  5. TMF

    TMF Talk Tennis Guru

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2009
    Messages:
    21,232
    Borg is tie with Fed at 42 but Fed won more important titles.

    connors won 49 but how many mickey mouse titles?

    The weight of each titles has a lot more to say than just total number of titles. Just saying...:)
     
    #5
  6. NatF

    NatF G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    May 10, 2012
    Messages:
    13,859
    Location:
    On the road from would of to would have
    What's were those tournaments that were won? E.g how many were slams or master equivalents etc...
     
    #6
  7. Mustard

    Mustard Talk Tennis Guru

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2009
    Messages:
    25,114
    Location:
    Cwmbran, Wales
    Laver won 66 titles in 4 years (1966-1969). He even won 38 titles in his last 2 years as an amateur (1961-1962).

    Gonzales won 42 titles in 4 years (1954-1957), while also winning professional head-to-head tours against Segura, Sedgman, Budge, McGregor, Trabert and Rosewall in those years.
     
    #7
  8. TMF

    TMF Talk Tennis Guru

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2009
    Messages:
    21,232
    I knew you will bring in the pre-era.

    As I've mentioned above, the total titles doesn't say much, but the weight of each title that is important. Who cares if a player win 20 mickey mouse titles, a player win 1 slam outweight all of them.
     
    #8
  9. SQA333

    SQA333 Professional

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2012
    Messages:
    1,447
    Not anytime soon. Nadal is the closest, and he can barely manage to walk right now. So Fed is safe for now.
     
    #9
  10. mary fierce

    mary fierce Banned

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2004
    Messages:
    734
    Weird thread. If something's been done several times in just the last few decades, why WOULDN'T you think it will be done again??
     
    #10
  11. Towser83

    Towser83 Legend

    Joined:
    May 17, 2011
    Messages:
    9,496
    why 4 years? isn't that a rather arbitrary number?
     
    #11
  12. McEnroeisanartist

    McEnroeisanartist Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2006
    Messages:
    2,199
    I can't help but think it may be a long long time before it happens again, if awesome players like Nadal and Djokovic couldn't do it.
     
    #12
  13. kimbahpnam

    kimbahpnam Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2007
    Messages:
    2,675
    What kind of path is Djoko on from 2011?
     
    #13
  14. Gonzo_style

    Gonzo_style Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2012
    Messages:
    3,897
    15, 2 tournaments left this year
     
    #14
  15. Gonzo_style

    Gonzo_style Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2012
    Messages:
    3,897
    Why 4 years? Why not 3 or 5? There is probably a good reason for that...
     
    #15
  16. Mustard

    Mustard Talk Tennis Guru

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2009
    Messages:
    25,114
    Location:
    Cwmbran, Wales
    Roger Federer
    Australian Open: 2004, 2006, 2007, 2010
    French Open: 2009
    Wimbledon: 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2009, 2012
    US Open: 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008

    Masters Cup/World Tour Finals: 2003, 2004, 2006, 2007, 2010, 2011

    Indian Wells: 2004, 2005, 2006, 2012
    Miami: 2005, 2006
    Hamburg: 2002, 2004, 2005, 2007
    Madrid (clay): 2009, 2012
    Canada: 2004, 2006
    Cincinnati: 2005, 2007, 2009, 2010, 2012
    Madrid (indoor hardcourt): 2006
    Paris Indoor: 2011


    Bjorn Borg
    French Open: 1974, 1975, 1978, 1979, 1980, 1981
    Wimbledon: 1976, 1977, 1978, 1979, 1980

    Masters: January 1980, January 1981
    WCT Dallas: 1976

    Las Vegas: 1979, 1980
    Monte Carlo: 1977, 1979, 1980
    Rome: 1974, 1978
    Boston: 1974, 1975, 1976
    Canada: 1979
    Tokyo: 1978, 1979
    Stockholm: 1980
    Wembley: 1977


    Jimmy Connors
    Australian Open: 1974
    Wimbledon: 1974, 1982
    US Open: 1974, 1976, 1978, 1982, 1983

    Masters: January 1978
    WCT Dallas: 1977, 1980

    Philadelphia: 1976, 1978, 1979, 1980
    Johannesburg: 1973, 1974
    Los Angeles: 1973
    Las Vegas: 1976, 1977
    Boston: 1973
    Indianapolis: 1974, 1976
    Washington: 1976
    Tokyo: 1980, 1984
    Wembley: 1976, 1981


    Ivan Lendl
    Australian Open: 1989, 1990
    French Open: 1984, 1986, 1987
    US Open: 1985, 1986, 1987

    Masters: January 1982, January 1983, January 1986, December 1986, 1987
    WCT Dallas: 1982, 1985

    Las Vegas: 1981
    Boca West: 1986
    Miami: 1989
    Monte Carlo: 1985, 1988
    Rome: 1986, 1988
    Forest Hills: 1982, 1985
    Hamburg: 1987, 1989
    Canada: 1980, 1981, 1983, 1987, 1988, 1989
    Cincinnati: 1982
    Philadelphia: 1986
    Tokyo: 1983, 1985
    Stockholm: 1989


    John McEnroe
    Wimbledon: 1981, 1983, 1984
    US Open: 1979, 1980, 1981, 1984

    Masters: January 1979, January 1984, January 1985
    WCT Dallas: 1979, 1981, 1983, 1984, 1989

    Philadelphia: 1982, 1983, 1984, 1985
    Forest Hills: 1983, 1984
    Canada: 1984, 1985
    Cincinnati: 1981
    Tokyo: 1982
    Stockholm: 1978, 1979, 1984, 1985,
    Wembley: 1978, 1979, 1980, 1982, 1983


    Pete Sampras
    Australian Open: 1994, 1997
    Wimbledon: 1993, 1994, 1995, 1997, 1998, 1999, 2000
    US Open: 1990, 1993, 1995, 1996, 2002

    World Championships: 1991, 1994, 1996, 1997, 1999
    Grand Slam Cup: 1990, 1997

    Indian Wells: 1994, 1995
    Miami: 1993, 1994, 2000
    Rome: 1994
    Cincinnati: 1992, 1997, 1999
    Paris Indoor: 1995, 1997


    Rafael Nadal
    Australian Open: 2009
    French Open: 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2010, 2011, 2012
    Wimbledon: 2008, 2010
    US Open: 2010

    Indian Wells: 2007, 2009
    Monte Carlo: 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012
    Rome: 2005, 2006, 2007, 2009, 2010, 2012
    Hamburg: 2008
    Madrid (clay): 2010
    Canada: 2005, 2008
    Madrid (indoor hardcourt): 2005
     
    #16
  17. TheFifthSet

    TheFifthSet Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2009
    Messages:
    2,356
    Dude, the OP didn't include any analysis whatsoever, it just listed the facts, nobody was being slighted. No need to be insecure.
     
    #17
  18. beast of mallorca

    beast of mallorca Legend

    Joined:
    May 19, 2010
    Messages:
    7,780
    Well, you know TMF is one insecure dude. Nothing surprising there.
     
    #18
  19. Agassifan

    Agassifan Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2009
    Messages:
    2,545
    Safe to say that nobody is going to ever win 11 slams in 4 years either
     
    #19
  20. BobbyOne

    BobbyOne Banned

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2012
    Messages:
    7,773
    TMF, You think Laver won Mickey Mouse tournaments from 1966 to 1969? Then learn history!
     
    #20
  21. Mustard

    Mustard Talk Tennis Guru

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2009
    Messages:
    25,114
    Location:
    Cwmbran, Wales
    And ruin the illusion of Federer being the only GOAT contender? LOL :twisted:
     
    #21
  22. timnz

    timnz Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2008
    Messages:
    4,548
    Lendl

    Actually you could add up to another 10 titles from the 1980 to 1983 to Lendl's total. The ATP didn't recognize every title. But Lendl still had to do the work to win them. The Antwerp event being missed out from the ATP totals is particularly glaring.

    The 10 titles I am talking about:

    1980 Sept 10-14 São Paulo - Brazil Invitational Cup Clay Gene Mayer 6–3, 7–5

    1980 Feb 25-27 Genoa - Bitti Bergamo Memorial Carpet Johan Kriek 6–2, 6–2

    1981 Aug 26-30 White Plains - AMF Head Cup Hard Ilie Năstase W/O

    1981 Nov 4–5 Calcutta - Indian Classic Cup Hard John Alexander 6–4, 6–2

    1981 Nov 7–8 Jakarta - Indonesian Grand Prix Tennis Hard Wojciech Fibak 6–1, 7–6, 9–7

    1981 Nov 23-29 Milan - Master Brooklyn Chewing Gum Carpet John McEnroe 6–4, 2–6, 6–4

    1982 Feb 4–7 Toronto - Molson Light Challenge Carpet John McEnroe 7–5, 3–6, 7–6, 7–5

    1982 Oct 19-24 Melbourne - Mazda Super Challenge Carpet Vitas Gerulaitis 6–2, 6–2, 7–5

    1982 Nov 30-Dec 5 Antwerp - European Champions' Championship Carpet John McEnroe 3–6, 7–6, 6–3, 6–3

    1983 Jan 10-16 Rosemont - Lite Challenge of Champions Carpet Jimmy Connors 4–6, 6–4, 7–5, 6–4
     
    #22
  23. Bobby Jr

    Bobby Jr Legend

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2010
    Messages:
    7,435
    This ^. Connors won a massive heap of titles in his career that wouldn't even be equivalent to 250 level tournaments today. He was prolific but the 70s and early 80s were boom-time for top players racking up easy titles.
     
    #23
  24. timnz

    timnz Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2008
    Messages:
    4,548
    Connors and level of tournaments

    To balance this:

    Connors won 28 tournaments that were Masters 1000 equivalent or greater in stature. He got to a further 21 finals of tournaments at that level. So that makes 49 tournament finals of Masters 1000 equivalent or greater level. Hence, he couldn't be accused of just winning at the low level of tournament.
     
    #24
  25. Bobby Jr

    Bobby Jr Legend

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2010
    Messages:
    7,435
    I didn't say just winning low level tournaments. His sheer number of titles are however hugely inflated by them.
     
    #25
  26. pc1

    pc1 Legend

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2008
    Messages:
    9,411
    From 1976 to 1979 Borg actually won 64 tournaments. The ATP records didn't keep track of all tournament victories instead some WCT tournaments. You can argue Borg's year in 1979 was better than some of the player's careers who are in the Hall of Fame. Borg won 21 tournaments, Wimbledon, the French, the Canadian Open and the Year End Masters. Compare his one year to Patrick Rafter's entire career for example.
     
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2012
    #26
  27. Ms Nadal

    Ms Nadal Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2012
    Messages:
    554
    Fed has been very lucky to avoid injuries due to his effortless playing style. We will never see his like again. And he schedules well so that he has enough rest throughout the year.
     
    #27
  28. sbengte

    sbengte Legend

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2010
    Messages:
    8,700
    Comparing the total no. of titles doesn't mean much IMO. Players can choose to play a bunch of 250 tournaments with weak fields and collect titles.
     
    #28
  29. Ms Nadal

    Ms Nadal Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2012
    Messages:
    554
    Very true and we all know how people roll over and die when they play FedEx. He won so many titles like that in the past. Fed had won many matches before he went onto the court. He had such an aura. I used to not bother watching the matches as I knew he would win.
     
    #29
  30. pc1

    pc1 Legend

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2008
    Messages:
    9,411
    Yes but that's the case with many great players. Federer wins the matches (usually) that he's supposed to win. He's upset very rarely by clearly inferior players and that's not easy to do. Look at Murray, he loses often to players I believe he should crush.
     
    #30
  31. Ms Nadal

    Ms Nadal Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2012
    Messages:
    554
    Yes you are right. But FedEx was so dominate during those years. He was untouchable :shock:.
     
    #31
  32. TMF

    TMF Talk Tennis Guru

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2009
    Messages:
    21,232
    Exactly, and thanks. It's misleading just to look at #'s of titles without knowing event that each player won. If people just go blindly by the numbers, then Connors is the goat because he holds the record for most single titles. Agassi has more titles than Sampras, but Sampras is way more accomplished and a greater player.
     
    #32
  33. Mustard

    Mustard Talk Tennis Guru

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2009
    Messages:
    25,114
    Location:
    Cwmbran, Wales
    Connors won big and small titles. 149 of them in his career.
     
    #33
  34. pc1

    pc1 Legend

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2008
    Messages:
    9,411
    I agree with you. Connors' record was fantastic.
     
    #34
  35. pc1

    pc1 Legend

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2008
    Messages:
    9,411
    TMF,

    Do you realize the competition that players like Laver and Gonzalez faced? Gonzalez, in the late 1950's toured with Anderson and Cooper. Cooper I believe the year before won three classic majors and Anderson won a major as an amateur also. Gonzalez defeated Anderson and Cooper by a combined match scored of 34 to 0. Essentially defeating Gonzalez in a single match was tougher for them than winning several majors.

    You have to look at the strength of the tournaments also. Yes there are some weaker tournaments but almost never in the pros in those days. The competition was generally very very strong.
     
    #35
  36. Mustard

    Mustard Talk Tennis Guru

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2009
    Messages:
    25,114
    Location:
    Cwmbran, Wales
    Gonzales did this regularly. Trabert was the best amateur player by far in 1955 by winning 3 of the 4 majors. Trabert turned pro in the fall of that year and faced Gonzales in a 101 match tour going well into 1956, and Gonzales won 74-27. The following year, Gonzales beat Rosewall 50-26, and the year after that, beat Hoad 51-36. True ability tells even more over such a long format, as there's no chance that an off day or a little run of form can overshadow the reality in the players' abilities.
     
    #36
  37. ramosxp

    ramosxp New User

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2012
    Messages:
    8
    Location:
    NMB, FLorida
    Lendl was without a doubt the most underated #1 if you look at his head to head vs other hall of famers, and players of his Era. There aren't many that can say they have a winning record over him, perhaps only Pete.

    I think the 40/4 had a much better chance of happening years ago. Obviously the depth in the game has a lot to do with it. Lendl himself said theh biggest difference was early round losses in major tournaments made headlines, today they happen all the time.

    It may happen, you never know. I think a tougher record to beat is the Fed Majors Quarterfinal or better streak, Semi Final streak as well. The reason not just because it's 4 tournaments in a year and you have to go 4 years without an early loss, but because you have the best of the best on 3 different surfaces. To me, that's Fed's legacy, not the majors, but the consistency, over multiple surfaces over many years.
     
    #37
  38. McEnroeisanartist

    McEnroeisanartist Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2006
    Messages:
    2,199
    Well said. But, I don't know about Lendl's comment. Today it seems early round losses at big tournaments almost never happens to the big 4. That is remarkable about them is how consistent they have been each grand slam for years now.
     
    #38
  39. mattennis

    mattennis Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2011
    Messages:
    2,234
    This must be a joke, right?

    There has never been a time before in tennis where the top players reach almost always the SF stage as they do today.

    Today is much easier for them ( for the top4 ) to reach the SF stage than ever before.

    It is a fact, you have only to look at the data.
     
    #39
  40. Sabratha

    Sabratha G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2012
    Messages:
    12,203
    Location:
    Australia
    It will be repeated... eventually.
     
    #40
  41. kalyan4fedever

    kalyan4fedever Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2012
    Messages:
    2,956
    May be the OP is counting if fed can reach the titles of connors in 4 years ofcourse.
     
    #41
  42. McEnroeisanartist

    McEnroeisanartist Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2006
    Messages:
    2,199
    I selected four years because I knew Connors, Borg, and Federer had done it and no one else, so it was achieveable, but there have been several other players who were able to win at least 30 titles in 4 years, but 40 titles is an incredible achievement.
     
    #42
  43. pc1

    pc1 Legend

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2008
    Messages:
    9,411
    Actually Sampras won more tournaments I believe 64 to 60 and had a higher winning percentage.

    http://www.atpworldtour.com/Players/Head-To-Head.aspx?pId=S402&oId=A092
     
    #43
  44. Polvorin

    Polvorin Professional

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2006
    Messages:
    817
    These kinda stats are always misleading imo. If the guys cared about padding their tournament victory stats they could play more of the smaller events.
     
    #44

Share This Page