5.0 Male Player vs Date Krumm

Discussion in 'Tennis Tips/Instruction' started by El Nino, Mar 14, 2013.

  1. tennisdad65

    tennisdad65 Hall of Fame

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    7.0 lady vs. 5.0 male... no contest.. the 5.0 may get a game in each set if he has a decent serve. And no.. 5.0's do not have great serves..
     
  2. thejackal

    thejackal Hall of Fame

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    sponsored teaching pros
     
  3. WildVolley

    WildVolley Legend

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    What do you mean by great serves? Some 5.0 men have pretty good serves, and many can serve harder than most professional women. I've watched some top ten women serve in person and some are not very impressive.

    However, most 7.0 women regularly practice with men who are better than 5.5, so they're not going to be troubled by anything 5.0 men normally bring.
     
  4. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    Very few 7.0 women have problems with a normal strong college level 5.5 men's serve.
    Lots of 7.0 women have problems with a strong LEFTY serve that is college level, maybe not even Div1.
    That was true in 1978, it's still true now.
     
  5. mad dog1

    mad dog1 Legend

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    yep, masha's hitting partner was cecil mamiit at one point. he reached a career high ranking of 102 in 2006 so nothing any 5.0 can bring is going to surprise a pro like kimiko date.
     
  6. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    Cecil Mammit, like MichaelChang ,have NO serve to speak of.
    Certainly not a ATP level serve. Both those guys rely on great groundies and superior wheels to make their money.
    Goran has a serve. Tanner has a serve. Rudeszki had a serve. Even BradleyKlan has a decent serve at best.
     
  7. JoelDali

    JoelDali G.O.A.T.

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    The rising 5.0 would demolish Cecil on fast hard courts. He has no serve.
     
  8. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    I suppose you cannot read, can you.
    Cecil has no serve for ATP level. He relies on speed, wheels, groundies, tenaciousness, and grit to win points.
    I said that, didn't I?
    Now LeeD is lacking in what? Say he has a serve...:):) one of my old detractors who call me BS just saw my serves today, a certain someone from Florida....:)
    LeeD has NO speed, NO groundies, NO tenaciousness, and NO grit.
    Yes, Cecil would 24 pack bagel LeeD. I can agree with that.
    BUT, he has NO serve at the ATP level. Nor did Chang.
     
  9. JoelDali

    JoelDali G.O.A.T.

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    LeeD has heart. Sprit. And a sturdy mangina.

    He would crush a falling 4.5 based on my calculations.
     
  10. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    LeeD is a falling 4.0.
    A falling 4.5 should crush me.
    While LeeD is skirting the line at 3.5, he can still play some 5.0 doubles.
    LeeD cannot run, cannot plant his back foot. Try playing tennis with that handicap.
     
  11. mad dog1

    mad dog1 Legend

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    ok. whatever. :roll: you don't make it on the ATP tour without an ATP level serve.

    but that's not the topic being discussed. cecil mamiit or michael chang certainly have better serves than any rising 5.0 player and if WTA players have hitting partners who are former ATP players that would mean Date would have NO problem dealing with a 5.0 serve.

    we all know that LeeD from 20 yrs ago would have destroyed Date because LeeD wasn't just any ordinary 5.0. he was an EXTRAordinary rising 5.0 who could throw a football 75 yards without warming up and possessed a devastatingly powerful serve that was comparable to a real ATP level serve.
     
    Last edited: May 10, 2013
  12. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    Date playing like she did when she was #10 WTA, she'd crush a 5.0.
    Date playing like she did as a # 75, it would be close.
     
  13. mad dog1

    mad dog1 Legend

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    would love to see a 5.0 come CLOSE to beating this Date...(and yes, i know this link was posted on the first page of this thread but apparently some folks could use a refresher course on the true level of WTA tennis) ;)

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VzJ9WVcIJlI
     
    Last edited: May 10, 2013
  14. barringer97

    barringer97 Rookie

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    Former NCAA Champion Cecil Mammit or another Cecil Mammit??? :?
     
  15. JoelDali

    JoelDali G.O.A.T.

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    No different Cecil.

    Mammit would make a 5.0 crap his pants with 6 pounds of embarrassment sludge.
     
  16. Pickle9

    Pickle9 Semi-Pro

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  17. rkelley

    rkelley Hall of Fame

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    That's Brad Gilbert in a yellow dress. Wow.

    I've never watched Date play much before, but she's a female Brad Gilbert. Look at the below videos between Gilbert and Becker:

    1987 US Open (features several primal screams from Becker)
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwC_2kSVyRE (start at 1:15)

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T17zqevDMBw

    Hitting the ball just hard enough to get it back over. Simple strokes, low energy swings. Always safe, never goes for too much, but great directional control and can put a bit more zip on it when they need to.
     
  18. onehandbh

    onehandbh Hall of Fame

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    Wow. I watched the Date link and see something totally different. She doesn't
    play like Brad Gilbert at all. Gilbert hits a lot of floaty groundstrokes that
    clear the net by a bit but don't have much topspin either. Date hits
    flatter and drives the ball more.

    She was hitting pretty flat and actually hit a fair number of winners.
    It didn't look like she was hitting much (if at all) softer than her opponent.
     
  19. mad dog1

    mad dog1 Legend

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    while i don't agree with your assessment that Date is a female Gilbert, that's not the point anyways. the point is there's no way a 5.0 male player is going to beat Date.

    agreed.
     
  20. rkelley

    rkelley Hall of Fame

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    I agree that she's hitting harder than Gilbert, but watch her strokes, especially her forehand. Like Gilbert she's not taking a full cut at the ball. She stops her stroke fairly soon after contact. She gets away with it because she has great directional control and she doesn't appear to miss much. The other woman appears to be afraid to make a mistake (like Becker in the Gilbert videos) so she doesn't hit as aggressively, which gives Date opportunities.

    Gilbert was hitting winners too, but against Becker he was content to rally softly from the baseline until Becker tried to get aggressive and come in. Gilbert answered with angles and delicate lobs, all just out of reach. Gilbert had good anticipation and was fast as well.
     
  21. thejackal

    thejackal Hall of Fame

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    its not date-krumm, but talked to carol zhao, a friend whos #13 itf juniors and committed to play for the woman's team at stanford in september. we ll try to get a set in in montreal between jr FO and Wimbledon for her

    predictions?
     
  22. JoelDali

    JoelDali G.O.A.T.

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    If Brad had used the wrist assist when he was on the tour I think he could have felt what Becker felt and added more power to his repertoire.
     
  23. onehandbh

    onehandbh Hall of Fame

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    Yes, she is not swinging super fast, but like Sampras, she uses a very
    heavy racquet so the ball comes off faster than you'd think.
    Actually, I believe her racquet is much heavier than Sampras'.
    Something like 400grams. So her swing lets the racquet do the work.

    I believe racquet is heavier than pretty much every ATP racquet used.
    It's too heavy for most people. Only the best rising 4.0s on TW could
    handle it. Ones that train hard in the gym and can bounce bench (TM) 350+ lbs
    off their sternum and max out 500 lbs on a partial squat.
     
  24. onehandbh

    onehandbh Hall of Fame

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    She's 17 yrs old and ranked in the 700's. She is essentially a solid D1
    player. A low ranked, but possibly rising-up-the-ranks WTA pro. If they player futueres, top college
    D1 men get ranked inside 1000 and I think up to around 300 something. I'm guessing it's
    the same for the college women.

    It will be a good match, though.
     
    Last edited: May 12, 2013
  25. JoelDali

    JoelDali G.O.A.T.

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    A top tier Texas 4.5 would keep up with Carol.

    She would most likely win 6-3 6-4.
     
  26. Devilito

    Devilito Hall of Fame

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    Can a 5.0 beat a high ranked WTA player? Only in the minds of 3.0 TW.com posters.
     
  27. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    I never hinted that EVERY 5.0 player can get sets off a #75WTA pro.
    I never hinted that most 5.0's can get sets off a #75 WTA pro.
    I said there are a few 5.0's, who are just cruising thru 5.0 to better things, they can get set's off a WTA #75.
    MOST, not all, 5.0's would choke against a WTA player. However, some don't get awed by their WTA status, they can take it as a challenge to play their own best game, and ignore the gender on the other side of the court.
    Broken down by specific strokes, movement, and power, a good 5.0 who will soon be 6.0 or better is not ever going to be outhit by ANY WTA pro short of top 5's. Now if they're not getting outhit, they can only beat themselves by putting undo pressure upon themselves and then fall apart mentally.
    Stroke by stroke, there is little difference between 5.0 and LOWER Level WTA players.
    Stoke by stroke there is little difference between 5.5 men and higher level WTA players.
    Date at #10 is a higher level WTA player.
    But Date at #75 is a injured, lost interest, distracted WTA player.
     
  28. JoelDali

    JoelDali G.O.A.T.

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    I lost in an Open tourney to a teaching pro 5.0 6-2 6-1 and I was playing well to get 3 games. I was a falling 4.5.

    This same guy would get shredded destroyed annihilated double bageled by a WTA 75.

    You are delusional Lee. LoL. Absolutely delusional.

    God I hate these threads but they are addicting.
     
  29. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    Yes, they're ARE kinda fun, isn't it?
    So, YOU, as a falling 4.5, although we've seen your vids, lost basically 2 and 1 to a 5.0, so you can extrapolate HE would get smoked by any WTA player. Right?
    Can that be self centered, slightly flawed thinking?
    Is it possible that there are 5.0's who are rising? Guys, young rising players who play Q's and Futures the SAME year, who go more than 3 rounds in them, who actually can serve, can run, and play S/V, who would trouble a WTA player used to playing the women's game?
    If your answer is NO, NO CHANCE, then your're just closed minded and self centered.
    YOU could not beat a 5.0, so stands to reason HE will get beat by a WTA player, right?
    And while Devilito is a 5.0, has he ever played a Q or Future's tourney? How about A/Open?
    There are 5.0's who go several rounds in each of those, and THEY are the guys I'm talking about, not us old codgers who are barely able to limp around the court nowadaze.
     
  30. Devilito

    Devilito Hall of Fame

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    There are plenty of former WTA players that could beat 5.0 males. And we're talking about current WTA players? Look, no doubt a good 5.0 can get games, can be competitive etc. But it would be a total hypothetical outlier. Also there must be some myth, maybe because they're women, that they can't handle pace well, would get pushed back with big serves or out hit etc. No way. 5.0s play other 5.0s. And 5.0s don't have better returns than WTA players. And if a 5.0 is blowing away another 5.0, then he's not really a 5.0 is he.
     
  31. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    Now we're talking.
    OK, and also, a 5.0 male player will never see a shot he cannot handle against a WTA player, certainly a number 75 ranked WTA player.
    YOU are a 5.0. You can return 135 mph first serves. You can return any wide serve under 100 mph hit by a short person. You cannot be overpowered by any woman. YOU will not be intimidated by any girl's speed, movement, or ball striking skills.
    So how can YOU lose to a WTA player? Because you can only lose if you mentally choke.
    Your forehand is stronger. Your backhand is close. Your speed and movement is superior. HER shots can't intimidate you, so you can ONLY lose because you played below your normal standards.
     
  32. JoelDali

    JoelDali G.O.A.T.

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    Lee - I haven't poasted vids here. You have me cornfused.
     
  33. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    You're right, and yes, I was confused.
     
  34. Devilito

    Devilito Hall of Fame

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    Yes. I'm a 5.0 now because i'm in my late 30s, came back from a 10 year layoff and play tennis a couple times/week and do no off-court work. I was closer to a 6.0 right after juniors. Played against pros, played futures and I still hit with futures players that have ATP points. However I was never able to get an ATP point. Heck, least year I even lost to the same guy Filip Peliwo lost to recently (Wett) and got a handful of games off him, and he was serving in the high 130s on a fast indoor surface. However, a match tough WTA player has a lot of other factors that can help them win matches then just the quality of their shots. Because tennis is such a mental game, the match toughness, fitness, anticipation, consistency and ability to handle pace would be enough for a WTA player to take out a 5.0. Especially someone like Date who was high ranked at one point. Most WTA players train with futures level men players. They're not foreign to a quality ball. And remember, we're talking about a 5.0, not someone with even 1 ATP point.
     
  35. Nostradamus

    Nostradamus G.O.A.T.

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    I am going to be brutally honest here. I am 4.5 player and I am not really sure if I can beat top ranked D1 college girls in Singles. Actually I don't think I can. Maybe 10 years ago but not now.
     
  36. JoelDali

    JoelDali G.O.A.T.

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    The rising 4.5 with properly placed lead tape, training, good diet and Vapour 5s can do damage against any female D1+.
     
  37. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    I know a couple of former Div11 players, both top 3 singles, who play in 4.5 now, just 4 years after graduation from college. Naturally, they compete quite well in A/Open tourneys. They got their 4.5 rating by not playing any tourneys for 4 years.
     
  38. Nostradamus

    Nostradamus G.O.A.T.

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    Yea well, maybe get a few games but these girls are in great shape and run all day. and tire you out.
     
  39. JoelDali

    JoelDali G.O.A.T.

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    No whey, you would crush them Bobby.

    I have faith in u.
     
  40. Relinquis

    Relinquis Hall of Fame

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    we're not talking about some miscellaneous WTA, we're talking about Date Krumm... she's can handle Sharapova's big power game and has three mobile phones...

    we're talking 5.0s... i.e. guys who have an occasional hit once every few days, have jobs and party on the weekends.

    no chance... if you guys had picked sloan stephens vs. a TTW video* rated 5.0 guy we'd have a more competitive match, as she would find the cries of C'mon! and Vamos! too "disrespectful", never mind the various gesticulations to the sidelines and wiping the ball on sweat soaked T-shirts... it's the mental game... TTWVR5.0s are known for their mental toughness and aggressive stance as well as their strategic use of MTOs and arguing line calls...

    Also, woodies only, right?


    *poll result 50%+ "is 5.0 and higher" according to a set recorded from the back-fence at roughly 6 feet high, i.e. below where TTWVR5.0s warmup serves hit the backfence on single bounce.
     
  41. Cheetah

    Cheetah Hall of Fame

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    Three mobile phones... hahahaha.
    Thanks.
     
  42. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    5.0.... work full time, party on weekends, go for occasional hits...... f u n n y ......
    5.0.... no job, tennis is it. Tourneys on weekends, structured hitting 5 days a week, interspersed with training.... more like it.
     
  43. Pickle9

    Pickle9 Semi-Pro

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    5.0 schmivo
     
  44. mad dog1

    mad dog1 Legend

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    wow, that's really clean hitting. great forehand!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YQ-YLLKwQEE
     
  45. Govnor

    Govnor Professional

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    [​IMG]
     
  46. GRANITECHIEF

    GRANITECHIEF Hall of Fame

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    Hey were you spying on me?

    How bout Oudin? How many games would the 5.0 job/weekend party guy get? How bout the rising 4.5 academy jr that is destined for greatness?
     
  47. Relinquis

    Relinquis Hall of Fame

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    how do you think you would fare?
     
  48. GRANITECHIEF

    GRANITECHIEF Hall of Fame

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    Since I struggled to get a 6&2 win against a 10 yrs former NCAA #1 & atp 300ish, my guess is that I might get 1 game against that current touring pro (who got a win today in Rome). Reality bites.
     
  49. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    5.0 with a huge serve and tons of reach, not afraid to play net, and a forgetful memory (so he continues up to net position), can be a handful for anyone not ranked top 300 in the ATP tour.
    That would translate to anyone on the WTA tour short of Serena.
     
  50. tennis_balla

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    LeeD, come on be realistic
     

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