65-79 Graphites

Discussion in 'Classic Racquet Talk' started by proracketeer, Sep 24, 2010.

  1. d-quik

    d-quik Rookie

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    i meant 1/32th of an inch OR 1.5mm; not 1.5mm of an inch.
     
    #51
  2. d-quik

    d-quik Rookie

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    and yes, the size increased. don't make me dig up the article to embarrass youfeedthetrolls
     
    #52
  3. BreakPoint

    BreakPoint Bionic Poster

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    No, it didn't. Look it up. For an experiment over 10 years ago, they allowed a slightly larger ball as 1 of 3 types of balls, the other 2 were standard size balls. Nobody uses them today, if they even still exist. When you buy a can of standard Wilson, Penn or Dunlop Championship balls, they are the same size as the balls used in the '70's.
     
    #53
  4. proracketeer

    proracketeer Professional

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    #54
  5. Long Face

    Long Face Rookie

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    Does this one count?

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    #55
  6. ritton07

    ritton07 Rookie

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    ...my contribution (with a racquet already seen here), found new, by chance, at a shop by the seaside...

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    I discovered its frame is quite ... soft (after all these years?), I levered with scissors, to remove some strings, I left a track on it...
     
    #56
  7. magnut

    magnut Hall of Fame

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    I have played with a bunch of these frames. They are interesting and probably the most demanding of the player. the head xrc comes to mind. Stange because I hit great with the arthur ash comp models. I think it may be the balance throws me off. It has always seemed very head heavy. Power is definitly not a problem with the XRC. It may be the most powerful frame I have with with.

    The old yamahas and wilson play pretty well. The yfg is a favorite of mine but its a 26 inch racquet. Yamahas have some interesting differences between models.
     
    #57
  8. Sanglier

    Sanglier Rookie

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    Here are some sub-79 graphite composites I picked up in the past year.

    First, three pairs of clones: The Fansteel Super-Graphite and Spalding GC-1; the Bancroft Scorpion and Celion Graphite; and the Kneissl Worldstar Pro and Snauwaert FC 200.

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    As one can see from the specs, they are not true clones, as they come with different grips and may even have different layups under the skin. However, there is no doubt that each pair came out of the exact same mold. Indeed, the first two pairs were made by the same Fansteel/American Sports Equipment crew that made the earliest 100% graphite frames for a bunch of different brands, including Tony Trabert, Prince, Slazenger, Bancroft, Spalding, as well as many smaller 'boutique' labels. In fact, I am now quite convinced that any US-made early composite frame that doesn't wear the Head, Wilson, Dura-Fiber, Aldila, BBC/Fox or MatchMate name tag is virtually certain to be an OEM product of this company.

    As for the Kneissl and Snauwaert pair, the former was developed and made in Austria between '76 and '78 (one of the earliest European-made 100% graphite frames, if not THE earliest), the latter was made in Belgium, possibly at a later date? Kuebler made no mention of the FC 200 in his book, so I suppose it's not that common. I can picture a scenario in which Snauwaert may have purchased the mold from Kneissl when the latter decided to go in a different direction with their frame design. However, the more likely reason these two frames look identical may be that Kneissl and Snauwaert had collaborated on this project. Given that Kneissl was a newcomer to the racquet-making business at the time, it would have made sense for them to seek out a partnership with an established manufacturer to reduce the initial development cost. I assume "FC" stands for "fibre de carbone", so this may have marked Snauwaert's first effort at a 100% graphite frame as well?


    Next are three singles:

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    The first-generation Red Fox and Limao came from a fellow forum member, whose evil-bay listings are trade-marked with a giant handlebar mustache in the background. Unlike the later Red Fox, which is a mid-size, the earlier iteration has a 74 sq.in. head, and is made and finished in the same manner as the earlier still BBC frames, later carried over to (and only seen on) MatchMate racquets.

    I have zero doubt that the handsome Italian Maxima in the middle is a cousin of the Bancroft Scorpion/ Celion Graphite above, made in the same southern California workshop. It is THE heaviest composite racquet in stock form that I've come across so far, due possibly in part to the dense string pattern. It's even heavier than most metals and woodies in my collection; only the Tensor Ultra and one of my Maxply Forts weigh more in unmodified form. Talk about 'plow-through'! When I hit a ball with this thing, it's like driving a train through butter. :)

    The Limao frame may not actually belong in this thread, as it is really a tubular aluminum frame bonded to a braided graphite outer sleeve encased in transparent resin. However, other manufacturers have also used this approach to make cheaper 'composite' frames, or perhaps to avoid patent issues, so I am counting it as a bonafide graphite composite. David Fernandez of American Sports Equipment did in fact take out a patent on this exact manufacturing technique in 1984, though by then the Taiwanese were well on their way to conquering the global OEM market, so it no longer mattered.

    As far as I can tell, Limao has been in business since 1974 and currently makes carbon fiber bike frames. They totally ignored my email inquiries however, so my guess is that they are no longer interested in tennis, or in that period of their own history. It's a shame really ... though it's equally vexing that I should care about it more than they themselves do.

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    Last edited: Jul 10, 2014
    #58
  9. jiddy-p

    jiddy-p Rookie

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    Cool thread guys, especially like that Yamaha.

    Do you guys actually play these rackets?
     
    #59
  10. retrowagen

    retrowagen Hall of Fame

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    Yes. We are the hipsters of the tennis world.

    :)
     
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  11. Le Master

    Le Master Semi-Pro

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    Does anyone have more info about this racquet? Like, exact model name and how hard it is to come by?
     
    #61
  12. Autodidactic player

    Autodidactic player Semi-Pro

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    I don't know the date Slazenger released the Phantom but I can confirm that it was before 1977. I have a Slazenger catalog from 1977 which shows the Phantom listed at $130.00! Must have been the most expensive racket available from any manufacturer in 1977. Here are a couple of pictures. The first one shows the racket, the second shows a model holding the racket in "short-shorts" which was the style back then and the final is my Phantom which I think is earlier than the one pictured in the catalog.

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    #62
  13. ChrisABC

    ChrisABC New User

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    Wilson Sting Standard, Kneissel White Star Pro Masters, Yamaha YFG 90, Bosworth Wilson Ultra 2, Tremont C-6
     
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2014
    #63
  14. ChrisABC

    ChrisABC New User

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  15. proracketeer

    proracketeer Professional

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  16. proracketeer

    proracketeer Professional

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  17. joe sch

    joe sch Hall of Fame

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  18. joe sch

    joe sch Hall of Fame

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