70 Barker vs 80 Hanika

Discussion in 'Former Pro Player Talk' started by kiki, Aug 8, 2014.

  1. kiki

    kiki Banned

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2010
    Messages:
    18,714
    The big FH of the british girl vs the superior athleticism and great lefty Bh of the german.Barker won RG in 1976 ( and reached a W sf in 1977 that she should have never lost to Stove) but Sylvia defeated Monster Martina in the 1982 Avon finals, which was also a major, just indoors.

    Hanika was also great on clay, having reached the Italian and French finals.

    Sue wins 2-1 on clay and 3-0 on grass but is beaten by the german 3-0 indoors and 2-1 on hard (Hanika played two Flushing QF´s).Sue holds her nerve better to take 7-5 the deciding tie break, so it is now 4-3 for the 70´s.
     
    #1
  2. kiki

    kiki Banned

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2010
    Messages:
    18,714
    Hanika is one of the most complete women players of the open era; but she is a poor women´s Court.

    She could hit better than average almost all the textbooks shots and effects, but she was not dominant at any.Being a lefty should have helped her a lot more than it did, mainly because her serve was rather erratic.And her footwork and movement were not what you expect of a top player and that was most likely her biggest liability.
     
    #2
  3. conway

    conway Banned

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2014
    Messages:
    721
    I would favor Barker. Her forehand was a far superior weapon to anything I saw from Hanika. Hanika is one of those players who made top 10 for periods during the very weak Navratilova and 7 dwarfes (to quote the arrogant b*tch Navratilova's quote regarding Graf's competition when it really applies far more to the pitiful era she dominated) mid 80s field, while Barker was a top 10 player for awhile in the much superior and deeper late 70s field.

    Neither had much staying power as a top player though. Both only about 2 years, which shows their inability to adapt or improve their games once others figured them out.
     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2014
    #3
  4. BTURNER

    BTURNER Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2007
    Messages:
    3,535
    Location:
    OREGON
    Hanika had a very nice serve so she might win a match or two in grass or carpet. Otherwise that forehand dominates rallies.
     
    #4
  5. conway

    conway Banned

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2014
    Messages:
    721
    Hmm wasn't Hanika considered better on clay and slower courts? Then again in this matchup she would probably only stand a chance on a surface that aided her strong lefty serve.
     
    #5
  6. BTURNER

    BTURNER Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2007
    Messages:
    3,535
    Location:
    OREGON

    I had heard that before, but I just don't get why. never made sense to me.
     
    #6
  7. kiki

    kiki Banned

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2010
    Messages:
    18,714
    Barker never ever beat a player like peak Navy
    Hanika twice
     
    #7
  8. conway

    conway Banned

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2014
    Messages:
    721
    Once. Early 81 Navratilova who lost 6-0, 6-0 to Evert and was on a 3 match losing streak to young Jaeger was not peak Navratilova. The other one was a huge choke by Navratilova after winning the first set 6-1 (which she references in her own biography) but still full credit to Sylvia for the huge win.

    Hanika definitely did better vs Martina than Barker but that doesn't mean she is better, or would be better in a matchup with Sue. Sue didn't have great passing shots, especialy off the backhand. So she would hate playing an all out attacking player.
     
    #8
  9. conway

    conway Banned

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2014
    Messages:
    721
    Probably since she made the French Open final, and had other strong results on clay.
     
    #9
  10. kiki

    kiki Banned

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2010
    Messages:
    18,714
    Yes,a choke.Navratilova won first set 6/1...
     
    #10
  11. kiki

    kiki Banned

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2010
    Messages:
    18,714
    Hanika beat Graf as well
    Germanic yellow press wanted to confront Hanika and Bunge.
    Germanic press is even worse than english tabloids
     
    #11
  12. conway

    conway Banned

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2014
    Messages:
    721
    Wasn't Hanika's last win over Graf in 1984? I suspect the 76 or 77 Barker could post a win over 14 or 15 year old Graf too.

    A more contemporary based comparision would be both beat Chris Evert only once, but Barker beat prime Evert and took peak Evert to 3 sets in the World Championship final. Hanika got her 1 win over Chris when Chris was already old and past her prime.
     
    #12
  13. kiki

    kiki Banned

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2010
    Messages:
    18,714
    RG 76 compared to Avon 82???
    Who Sue beat in F?
     
    #13
  14. conway

    conway Banned

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2014
    Messages:
    721
    Oh yes Hanika's big title was more impressive given the crappy field of RG 76. No question about that. Granted Evert didnt play the Avon Hanika won, and despite her win over Martina I highly doubt she would have won had Chris played (she would have had to peak both, and wouldnt beat Chris for another 6 years). I still don't think that necessarily makes her the better player though. Peak Barker just impresses me more having seen both on tape, and I think would be a bad matchup for Hanika anyway.
     
    #14
  15. BTURNER

    BTURNER Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2007
    Messages:
    3,535
    Location:
    OREGON
    You misunderstood. I had heard Hanika was a good clay courter - and I can't figure out why.
     
    #15
  16. kiki

    kiki Banned

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2010
    Messages:
    18,714
    Sylvia not only beat Martina en route to the 81 RG final.But she beat Andrea in Andrea´s best year in their sf.

    And won the first set of the final

    and played the IO final against Tracy Austin in 1979
     
    #16
  17. conway

    conway Banned

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2014
    Messages:
    721
    She didn't actually win the first set of the final. She was up 4-0 in the 1st set over Hana but still lost the set 6-4, and the 2nd set 6-2.

    I imagine the belief that Sylvia was a good clay courter is based upon her French Open final run. I don't even know that much about her history or results (although have seen her play a number of times) but I believe (could be wrong) she has a number of other strong showings on clay too. Her best results were both clay and indoors/carpet weren't they.

    One factor I realize I had forgotten up until now was Sylvia being a lefty could find Sue's backhand more easily than a righty. We see that all the time with Nadal against Federer for instance. She also had a really good lefty hook serve which could force Sue to hit a backhand return on the ad side, and on important points. That might give Syliva a stronger shot in the matchup than I previously was thinking. She wasn't able to do this effectively against Graf but Graf is fast enough to get around and hit a forehand anyway, and her backhand is still light years stronger than Sue's.
     
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2014
    #17
  18. kiki

    kiki Banned

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2010
    Messages:
    18,714
    Not at all just 81 RG F.In 79 she lost the IO final to Tracy Austin, who had just ended Evert´s 125 winning streak in their sf.

    Tracy was a very bad match up for her.destroyed her twice at the US Open QF, exactly in 1979 and in 1981, the two years Tracy won the US Open...maybe Hanika was her talisman¡¡¡
     
    #18
  19. conway

    conway Banned

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2014
    Messages:
    721
    I wouldn't expect Hanika to have much chance vs Tracy. Although she had a good serve, and some decent volleying capabilities, Hanika was still predominantly a baseliner and Tracy has far too much firepower and consistency from the baseline for Sylvia. She would atleast have more chance against Sue than she ever would vs Tracy, as she could atleast target her backhand and weaker movement.
     
    #19
  20. kiki

    kiki Banned

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2010
    Messages:
    18,714
    ...and, as I said before, Hanika also beat Andrea Jaeger and Martina Navratilova ( fat or not, a far superior player to Sue) the year she played the FO final.

    Andrea was a helluva clay court player as you guys probably know.

    I don´t recall now her record against the other great cc players of her generation, like Fromholtz,Bunge and some older ones such as Jausovec and Ruzici, who still played very well in the early 80´s.
     
    #20

Share This Page