70 King vs 80 Tracy

Discussion in 'Former Pro Player Talk' started by kiki, Aug 8, 2014.

  1. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    Here, King starts the recovery of the 70´s.Tracy wins 2-1 on hard and carpet, King wins 2-1 on clay and 3-0 on grass.

    The firepower and mental strength of the baseliner vs the schrewd mental strength and tactical assets of the S&V´er, a great match whatsoever.

    Don´t you all forget King, at 39, beat Tracy, at 20, in their W QF match ( 1982)
    So, 80´s on the lead 2-1
     
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  2. conway

    conway Banned

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    In the era they played in I would favor the early 70s King (70-73, not the one with butchered knees and playing part time singles from 74 onwards) over the 79-81 (peak) Austin. Most of the slams and tournaments were on grass then which would heavily favor Austin. Neither was much a factor on clay, and there wasn't even a hard court slam for the first time until 78.

    Interstingly I would probably give the edge to Tracy on both hard courts and clay, but in the context of the eras and the surface distribution of the tournaments back in their era, King would have the edge in the matchup. Then again Tracy generally avoided grass or lost so early she didn't even play the best there often.
     
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  3. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    still Austin played two or three back to back W sf ( never bothered to go down under). and her return was very good on grass.
     
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  4. conway

    conway Banned

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    True, she wasn't terrible on grass when she was healthy and willing to play, but still would give King the clear edge on that surface. If even a really old King beat an Austin only a level below her prime level in mid 82 (when she was starting to struggle with her injuries that would increasingly weaken her), I would favor her heavily on that surface prime to prime.
     
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  5. suwanee4712

    suwanee4712 Professional

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    I love this matchup. I would never understimate the fight in Tracy nor the cleverness and craftiness of BJK. I tend to favor the player that forces the action more, and I think that's King. My guess is we would all give grass to King and clay to Tracy.

    The interesting part would be the hard and indoor matchups. Tracy was strong on both. She could easily beat anyone on those two surfaces. But I'm a big believer in the tactician that King is. I think she might do a better job of quickly assessing what's working for Tracy that day and what's not.

    I also think BJK would avoid having Tracy hit through her by jerking her around the court with short angles and by drawing her in. I also think King's pressure on Tracy's serve would be key. I'm sure Tracy would hit some fine passing shots, but King would make her do it all day long.
     
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  6. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    Tracy´s mental strength is underrated but is right there with the best.

    I often wondered what would happen if Austin and Jaeger merged in one ( injuries aside).What a superplayer may that be for Andrea lacked Tracy´s minds ( not in the tactics department of course) and Tracy lacked Jaeger´s game
     
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  7. BTURNER

    BTURNER Hall of Fame

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    BJK's problem is that the more different spins, angles and shots you employ in your strategy to break another's rhythm, the more you have to have grooved and mastered so that you don't break your own more. A lot of these short angles and droppers are fairly low percentage anyway. Off a heavy hit ball like Tracy's, it is even more difficult to keep the unforced errors down and the ball from sitting up. And everyone knows which wing of BJK's to pound on to produce even more errors. IMO< BJK has to have a good serving day on hard and carpet. If the bounce and footing is sure, Tracy's game will be as well regardless of speed.

    I think Tracy is overrated on clay ( almost all her cred comes from one famous win) and underrated on carpet. On har-tru clay on the right dry day, BJK might have a shot at a win. King actually has a past on the green stuff.
     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2014
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  8. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    BJK won Roland Garros, which Tracy didn´t ( and to her fault not to enter the 79 tournament when she would have been a clear favourite to win it)

    Tracy Austin was impressive indoors, beating Martina to win the VS finals and playing another Masters and Avon Finals where he handled Chris ( and the rest of the croop as well) with huge ease; only Navratilova, the best indoor player of all time could beat her.
     
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  9. suwanee4712

    suwanee4712 Professional

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    All very true. I actually liked watching BJK on green clay.

    I think my answer is heavily influenced with what I saw BJK do against both Tracy and Chris at 82 Wimbledon. Sometimes her execution was off, but I thought King's tactics were brilliant. I actually think she might've beaten Martina had she got to the final.
     
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  10. BTURNER

    BTURNER Hall of Fame

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    King could do anything on a grass court, even rally with the best. All that slice and underspin off both wings takes on grass. Court, Goolagong, Bueno, everyone from her generation used slice and 'chop' shots regularly because they worked so well at 3-4 majors. Evert figured out how to handle them out of necessity young enough and she prepared so early on her strokes that she could still get underneath the balls on her backhand. Tracy and most any baseliner coming up later than 1975, would be completely screwed against a peak King on damp grass court.

    Sigh, .I really miss slice . An underspin winner is beautiful . Its so sweet to watch it slither and die. Henin and Mauresmo were the last, you know. Its sad.
     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2014
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  11. suwanee4712

    suwanee4712 Professional

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    Yep. The art of an offensive slice seems lost.

    I think one of the key differences between Tracy and Chris was that Chris seemed to have the flexibility to handle the chops and slices. I think it might have been a little easier to get Tracy off balance.
     
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  12. BTURNER

    BTURNER Hall of Fame

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    The real secrets to Evert's superb grass game were all fundamental. Always in position early. Always on balance. Always keep an eye on the ball. Always prepare your racket early. She did those all more consistently than any baseline player and they matter more on grass than any other surface. It helps of course if you sense where the serve or volley is heading a millisecond before anyone else.

    Two-handers who grow up on clay courts in Florida, with no serve or volley to speak of, have absolutely no business getting to 15 grand slam finals on grass courts with a lifetime w/l percentage of 85-86% respectively at Kooyoung and Wimbledon. She had to be doing something else well.
     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2014
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  13. conway

    conway Banned

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    I think Martina was happier playing Chris than BJK in that final TBH.
     
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