8 Grand Slams at 18 y.o.? Has anybody aside from Monica Seles ever did this?

Discussion in 'Former Pro Player Talk' started by rogerfederer26, Jun 21, 2010.

  1. rogerfederer26

    rogerfederer26 Rookie

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    I couldn't think of any other player who has won so much Grand Slams at such a fast place other than Seles.:confused:



    [​IMG]





    1993 Australian Open Final


    Cliff Drysdale: "Graf has won eleven grand slam championships."
    Mary Carillo: "Seles has played 20 less but she's already won seven of them."



    1993 Australian Open Final


    Mary Carillo: "How much can you say about this woman? She is a remarkable - she has that remarkable instinct, when under the gun, when under pressure, to attack. She's got the instincts of a doberman. You know, when confronted, she attacks. It's the natural thing for her to do. I just, as I say, I've never seen her like before. I've seen great players, obviously, great champions. But time and again we've seen Monica in trouble, we've seen her play less than her best tennis, and in the end, I mean, she just basically says, 'All right, gimme the ball, gimme the ball.' And she hits winners. It's great stuff."
     
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  2. TENNISism

    TENNISism New User

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    M.Connoly was an extradinary player. Seles won 1st title at age 16 and won 8 at age 19(not 18). Graf won 1st slam at age 17 and 11 at age 20. Both are excellent legends.
     
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  3. davey25

    davey25 Banned

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    Both Seles and Connolly had 7 slam titles at the time of their 19th birthdays. Connolly was by far the better teenaged player though. Connolly entered exactly 9 slams from ages 16 to 19 and won all 9 before her crippling accident which never allowed her to play again. By far the greatest teenaged player ever. Seles entered 11 slams from ages 16 to 19 and won 8 of them, including skipping one she was certain to lose as well. Connolly was unbeatable on every surface, Seles was incapable of winning squat on grass and in her only final at Wimbledon was humiliated 6-2, 6-1, one of the worst defeats ever by a #1 in a W final. Connolly did not lose a single set to a main rival in a slam all those years, Seles barely won many of her matches vs key rivals in slams.

    The best 15-16 year old player ever was Hingis who won 3 of the 4 slams she played as a 16 year old in 1997, reaching the finals of the other. Youngest player to ever win a slam. Also at 15 was winning tournaments, rising the top 5, nearly won the U.S Open and WTA Championships, and was already beating all the top women including 22 year old Monica Seles who took a 6-2, 6-0 beating from the 15 year old phenom.
     
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  4. samboy01

    samboy01 Banned

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    Seles had 8 slams at age 19, but still could have played a few more slams before her 19th year was over. Graf's 11 slam came at age 23/24, not 20. What are you smoking? Anyways nobody comes close to Seles, we were robbed, to many fans she will always be the GOAT. And before someone speaks about Wimbledon, I've said it again she only had played it 3 times and already had a better record there than Graf & Navratilova in their first 3 tries. Enough said.
     
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  5. Berundi

    Berundi Banned

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    Nobody was better than Seles to be sure.
     
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  6. davey25

    davey25 Banned

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    ROTFL what is with your Graf obsession. I never mentioned Graf at all in this thread. The greatest teenaged player by far is Maureen Connolly which the stats prove. Seles does not even come close to Connollys level of domination over the field as a teenage.

    And you are for some bizarre reason even mentioning Navratilova the latest blooming womens Champion in history in a thread about teenage phenoms. You are hopeless. Who cares how Graf and Navratilova did at Wimbledon as teenagers. Connolly won every Wimbledon she played from age 16 to 19 along with every other slam which is what reflecs on the OPs claim or question that Seles was the greatest teenaged player ever. She clearly was not.

    The greatest teenage player ever by far:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
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  7. samboy01

    samboy01 Banned

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    Also something that davey doesn't seem to understand. Even though I think that Graf's 2 matches against Seles on grass are far from conclusive (one was in 1989 when Seles was 15, and the other one Seles didn't have the usual intensity because of the grunting controversy), I still acknowledge that Graf would always be the favorite over Seles on grass.

    However, Nadal would always be the favorite over Federer on clay, but that didn't mean that Federer could never win the French. He did, even if he didn't have to beat Nadal, and that doesn't take away anything from him. It's like me saying because Seles beat Graf twice at the AO, it means that Graf would never win the AO again. Please.

    Seles reached the final at Wimbledon beating Navratilova along the way, and at 16 she had reached the quarters and even gave a better match to Garrisson then Graf did. So she was probably the 2nd best grass court player after Graf. It's not as if she played it 10 times before the stabbing and couldn't win it. She did STUNNING at Wimbledon in terms of the amount she played, even better than Graf & Navratilova at Wimbledon at the same age. Everything else that happened after with the fat Seles that cameback with a broken career is irrelevant to what would have happened without that horrible incident.
     
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  8. Lionheart392

    Lionheart392 Professional

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    samboy01 = frisco of course.
    Again you're right, Graf has nothing to do with this thread and yet s/he has to bring her up and start the whole debate again. It's disturbing.
     
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  9. Berundi

    Berundi Banned

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    Didn't they play with a shuttlecock in Connolly days?
     
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  10. davey25

    davey25 Banned

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    Idiot. Once again this thread has nothing to do with Graf or Navratilova. It is asking who has achieved more than Seles at the same age and that is clearly Maureen Connolly who already had a Calendar Grand Slam at age 18 and won every single slam event she played after her 16th birthday.
     
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  11. samboy01

    samboy01 Banned

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    Connoley's dominance might have been better, but Seles' era was tougher that's for sure. Seles had Graf, Navratilova, Sanchez, Sabatini, Novotna, Martinez, Coetzer, Huber, Capriati, Pierce, back then the top 10 was huge. In Connoleys' era, it wasn't as competitive. Plus, like I said many times if Seles' career stopped with an injury or anything like that, it would be part of things. But she got stabbed on the tennis court in order to take her from the top, that's why it's different, it was a crime that came upon her simply because she was too good, not part of her regular life.
     
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  12. samboy01

    samboy01 Banned

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    You keep repeating yourself, but Seles' era was tougher than Connoley's era. And you DID mention Graf because you talked again about the 1992 Wimbledon final as if it would have definied Seles' career at wimbledon even if she wasn't stabbed.
     
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  13. davey25

    davey25 Banned

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    Other than Graf who Seles played only 7 times and 4 times in slams in 3+ years here are the others you mentioned:

    Navratilova- was already 33 years old when Seles first began her rise. When Seles first ever reached #1 was the ripe age of 34. You know the age virtually every other great player of the last 40 years was RETIRED.

    Sanchez- someone who Seles fanatics would surely claim would have ended as a 1 slam only winner without the Seles stabbing.

    Sabatini- an underachieving mental flake, another 1 slam wonder who was owned by Graf, Seles, aging Navratilova, and aging Evert.

    Novotna- same as Sabatini but even less accomplished, and only a big threat on grass.

    Martinez- a clay court specialist who was owned by Graf, Seles, Pierce, Sabatini, and Sanchez on clay.

    Capriati- a pre pubescent 14 and 15 year old who nearly beat Seles at the U.S Open then went awry with drug use and other problems and was soon off the tour for years.

    Pierce- Pierce was nowhere near her prime back then. She didnt even begin to flourish into a name people even knew until she left her abusive and horrible father.

    Huber and Coetzer- hahahahahah. What is next, you are going to mention the Maleeva sisters.


    Now lets look at who Maureen faced:

    Doris Hart- one of the few women in history to complete the Career Slam. 6 time Slam singles Champion. Legendary doubles player as well.

    Louise Brough- 4 time Wimbledon singles Champion, and would have won 6 or 7 without teenaged Connolys compete dominance including on grass (too bad for her Seles wasnt there instead of Connolly). 6 time Slam singles Champion despite almost always missing Australia. Legendary doubles player also.

    Margaret Du Pont- 3 time U.S Open singles Champion. 6 time Slam singles Champion despite also rarely venturing to Australian Open. And another doubles great.

    Shirley Fry- Like Doris Hart another who completed the Career Slam. Another doubles great as well.

    Althea Gibson- overcame racism at its worst to win Wimbledon and the U.S Open twice each, and win 5 Slam singles titles including the French. A trailblazer for people like he Williams sisters.


    And you actually believe Seles had tougher competition. Pffft. Teenaged Connolly > Teenaged Seles period.
     
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2010
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  14. samboy01

    samboy01 Banned

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    LOL, so you name your players with their accomplishements (and never mention that most of them were past their primes either), but then you do the opposite for Seles' opponents basically insulting them. You need help.

    And last time I checked, Navratilova beat both Seles/Graf in 1993 and even reached the 1994 Wimbledon final, so she was far from over in 1992, Seles' win over her on grass was huge.

    Btw, if you are downplaying Seles' dominance, then Graf's dominance should be downplayed even further because it's basically the same but yet WITHOUT Seles.
     
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  15. Berundi

    Berundi Banned

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    Bringing Connolly into this discussion is like comparing Renshaw to Federer. Give me a break. Tennis was not even a real sport in those days. After real tennis started no one dominated like Seles did, 8 slams at 19, wow! No one comes close.
     
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  16. davey25

    davey25 Banned

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    The only one I mentioned that was possibly slightly past her prime was Osborne Du Pont. And Gibson was not yet in her prime. Brough, Hart, and Fry all won multiple slams after Connollys accident or during her dominance (only when unbeatable Connolly did not play of course). Again you fail. Also hilarious you believe these women who were all in their 20s (except Du Pont) at a time players generally played much older were somehow past their primes, yet believe Navratilova in her mid 30s was still in hers.

    I could post the achievements of those women if you wish and they would still fall far short of the women who Connolly faced apart from Graf, and a granny way past her best Navratilova.

    Seles beating a 35 year old MN at Wimbledon was HUGE. Well I guess Seles fans are prety desperate when it comes to Monica on grass but the same feat was managed by a 15 year old Capriati a year earlier, and by Linda Harvey Wild at Eastborne just weeks earlier.
     
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  17. samboy01

    samboy01 Banned

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    Like I said, Navratilova is a legend. She even beat your precious Steffi Graf at age 37. The point is, in 1992 she was still no.3 in the world and a force on grass.
     
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  18. davey25

    davey25 Banned

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    Martina's last ever win over Monica was actually after her last ever win over Graf and it was at age 36. Martina was not ranked #3 in the World in 1992. She never again ranked that high after early 1991, flucuating between #4 to #8 for the remainder of her career, being ranked below Sabatini (imagine a prime MN being ranked below Sabatini, LOL). If a flake like Sabatini was better than MN at that age, safe to say all the women I mentioned Maureen faced who are much better players than Sabatini would have been as well. Yeah she was still a force on grass though as long as she avoided grass court legends like Linda Harvey Wild, 15 year old Capriati, or Conchita Martinez in draws.

    Kudos to the great MN for even being competitive in pro tennis at 34-36 years old, but she still was 34-36 years old. To put it into perspective 5-7 years older than when both Seles and Graf retired since they were no longer as competitive (especialy Seles).
     
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  19. Mustard

    Mustard Talk Tennis Guru

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    Seles could potentially have had 11 slams by the end of her teens.
     
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  20. samboy01

    samboy01 Banned

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    That was AFTER the 1992 Wimbledon, so that's all that matters.
     
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  21. LDVTennis

    LDVTennis Professional

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    Seles fans are so desperate. What losers!
     
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  22. davey25

    davey25 Banned

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    From Bud Collins Encyclopedia:

    "A too-brief flash on the tennis scene was that of Maureen Catherine Connolly, but it was of brilliant incandescence; she may have been the finest of all female players."

    "A cheerful and sporting competitor, she crushed the oppostion, never losing an important match, only occasionaly losing a set. She helped the U.S beat Britian in the Wightman Cup matches of 1951-1954, winning all seven of her singles.

    Fifteen years after Don Budge scored the first Grand Slam. Connolly traveled the same route in 1953, winning all the major singles Championships (Australian, French, Wimbledon, U.S.) within a calendar year to achieve the first female Slam. She lost only one set in doing so.........That season she won 10 of 12 tournaments on 61-2 match record."

    "Nobody has ever measured up to her perfect record in the majors after early U.S defeats in 1949-1950 (aged 14 and 15). She sailed through nine successive majors (three U.S., three Wimbledons, two French, one Australian), unbeaten in 50 matches."


    "Whenever a great player comes along you have to ask 'could she have beaten Maureen?"" That was the standard of Lance Tingay, the Hall of Fame tennis correspondent of the Daily Telegraph of London. "In every case the answer is, I think not."
     
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  23. davey25

    davey25 Banned

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    They are so desperate to find any title to give Seles so they come up with greatest 18 or under player ever. Sadly for them there is a player greater than Seles who holds that title as well, which I suspect given the responses the majority of them are so clueless to tennis outside of Seles was someone they had never heard of. Guess time to look for a new category for their hero, "greatest McDonalds customer" maybe.
     
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  24. Mustard

    Mustard Talk Tennis Guru

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    We're desperate? The pro-Graf and anti-Seles fanatics are the desperate ones, trying to treat the stabbing as if it were a mere injury.
     
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  25. Chadwixx

    Chadwixx Banned

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    She would of won wimbledon on her 4th try like many other legends.

    Graf fans are psychopaths who cant take losing to a better player.
     
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  26. davey25

    davey25 Banned

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    Martina was 36 at the time of that match, not 37, and she beat Seles in a tournament AFTER that match which was her last ever win over Graf as well. Yet again me right, you wrong. Poor Selestials, getting schooled in their own thread over and over again.
     
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  27. davey25

    davey25 Banned

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    Yep. The Calendar Grand Slam does not exist, neither does Wimbledon, neither does the final 8 years of Seles's career, neither does the head to head with Graf from 91-early 93, neither does any player who never played Monica Seles in the early 90s. Anything that would make Seles anything other than the fantasy best ever never existed, LOL!
     
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  28. Chadwixx

    Chadwixx Banned

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    Seles was a better player than graf until she was stabbed, all you really need to know.
     
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  29. LDVTennis

    LDVTennis Professional

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    Yeah. After losing 6-2, 6-1 in the 1992 Final, Seles would have come back the following year and beat Graf 6-0, 6-0 in the final. She then would have gone on to win Wimbledon every year for the next 14 years. LOL!
     
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  30. davey25

    davey25 Banned

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    Seles as a teenager was not a better player than Connolly as a teenager and that is what this thread started by a Selestial was supposed to be about. Of course now that that theory of nobody being as good as Seles at 18 or under was blown out of the water the off topic diversions will surely start, rather than the admission of being wrong and of being so clueless on tennis to have never heard of Connolly.
     
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  31. Chadwixx

    Chadwixx Banned

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    Steffi graf lost in the 1987 final and won her first wimbledon in 1988 on her 6th attempt...
     
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  32. Chadwixx

    Chadwixx Banned

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    The op didnt mention connolly, you did on the 3rd post...
     
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  33. Mustard

    Mustard Talk Tennis Guru

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    It proves my point when you think it's a laughing matter.
     
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  34. samboy01

    samboy01 Banned

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    The off topic was started by you. You brought in Graf and the 1992 Wimbledon final as to make a statement that Connoly was better. Did Connoly play Graf at Wimbledon? No. Would Seles still have had many shots to play at Wimbledon without the stabbing? Yes. She never even got to "play" Wimbledon at age 19.
     
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  35. LDVTennis

    LDVTennis Professional

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    The OP asked a question, thinking the right answer was Monica Seles. But, it wasn't. It was Little Mo. The joke is on the OP and you, it appears.
     
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  36. Chadwixx

    Chadwixx Banned

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    Ask him about steffi's blackmail (even though it had nothing todo with her), now thats some serious stuff and the only reason seles took over as the wta #1 for two years.

    Steffi was a great player, but her slam count is extremely inflated because her fan took out her cheif rival. It would be on thing if it were some random crazy but gunter said specifically he did it so steffi could regain #1. And she did.
     
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  37. davey25

    davey25 Banned

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    The scary thing is many Selestials actually believe that. :lol: I can see the excuses for her not winning Wimbledon (what really would happened of course) in all future years:

    1993- After being spanked by Jana Novotna in the semis: "She was still emotionally crushed about being not allowed to grunt the previous year, and even though she grunted this year she was traumatized in fear over that and not able to play her game."

    1994- After crashing out Larisa Neiland in the 3rd round: "She heard about Mary's abusive father possibly showing up at Wimbledon, and when Mary withdrew in fear, she was scared that Mary's father was coming to beat her up after Mary's 6-1, 6-1 trouncing of Monica in the French Open semis. That affected her mindset and she couldnt play her game."

    1995- After being served out of tournament by Brenda Schultz in round of 16: "The local Krispy Kremes was closed. She wasnt able to get her daily nourishment and so her tummy was grumbling all match and she couldnt concentrate on her game. She also is still about not being allowed to grunt 3 years ago. Emotionally she is still ruined by this."

    1996- After losing 2nd round to Katerina Studenikova: "It was the shoulder, she would have won Wimbledon for sure otherwise" (the excuse and claims they actually made at the time )

    1997- After losing 3rd round to Sandrine Testud: "She was a fat" (their excuse as it was but blamed it on the stabbing of course). Well since the stabbing excuse is now out I guess we alternate Krispy Kremes, McDonalds, and Burger King, as the excuses for losing at Wimbledon, until her retirement. Except the year she loses to 5"6 Henin where they will accuse Henin of taking steroids most likely.
     
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  38. Berundi

    Berundi Banned

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    Let's face it, without Gunter, there is no Graf.
     
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  39. Mustard

    Mustard Talk Tennis Guru

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    That post is utter fail.
     
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  40. Chadwixx

    Chadwixx Banned

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    You know this because?
     
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  41. Lionheart392

    Lionheart392 Professional

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    Gunter Parche was a CRIMINALLY INSANE man. Why do you keep quoting him as a voice of authority on this matter? So if he had also said 'because Monica will not win a slam for the next 3 years even if I do nothing', would you believe that too?
     
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  42. davey25

    davey25 Banned

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    Of course I did. The OP asked if anyone had achieved what Seles had at 18. And I answered YES someone has and achieved alot more at that age- Maureen Connolly. Selestials then showed their usual ignorance by demonstrating they know nothing about the great Maureen, Maureen's competition, or how much more highly Maureen is regarded in tennis history than Mrs. 0 Wimbledons Seles.

    And whereas only Selestials still argue Seles was on her way to being the greatest ever without the stabbing, virtually every tennis historian believes Connolly would have actually been the greatest ever without her crippling accident at 19. Yet even Connolly is not regarded as the greatest ever today as life is not based on a what if of course, and Selestials still believe you can actually argue that Seles is in anyway the female greatest ever all based all on a what if, even after returning to tennis and getting owned by Graf and generation next for 7-8 years. Please.

    Anyway this thread was about the greatest 18 or under player ever. And that was clearly Connolly. And the greatest 16 or under player ever was Hingis followed by Austin. And if we are getting ultra desperate greatest 15 or under player is Capriati. Sorry to break the harsh reality but there is no area Seles is tops in, even if you get into age categories.
     
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2010
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  43. Chadwixx

    Chadwixx Banned

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    Lets try not to make a point using "if"

    He did the stabbing and his insane plan worked, steffi regained #1. He is the authority on this matter because its his matter
     
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  44. Berundi

    Berundi Banned

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    Clearly Seles was the greatest tennis champion before 20. Connolly is nowhere to be seen. Graf even smaller.
     
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  45. LDVTennis

    LDVTennis Professional

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    This is insanely funny!
     
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  46. LDVTennis

    LDVTennis Professional

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    I once calculated, in jest of course, that Seles would have ended up with 47 majors and 8 consecutive calendar slams at a time when Seles-tards still thought those existed.

    Seles-tards thought I was not kidding. LOL!
     
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  47. davey25

    davey25 Banned

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    You are so ignorant and blind to reality it is hilarious. And here is a treat for blind Selestials. Lookie what a teenaged Little Mo is holding and held 3 different times:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]


    You know what that is called? It is called a "W-I-M-B-L-E-D-O-N" trophy, something Seles and her fans never got to enjoy, but for a teenaged Maureen it was as easy as picking flowers in a garden.
     
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  48. Chadwixx

    Chadwixx Banned

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    Davey still doesnt undestand grand slams are equal and the year is 2010
     
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  49. LDVTennis

    LDVTennis Professional

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    ... while not grunting.... LOL!
     
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  50. davey25

    davey25 Banned

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    and teenaged Connolly won all the slams, all 4 in the same year, and all 7 slams she played from her 16th birthday until her 19th birthday. And Seles? Imagine Connolly ever losing a Wimbledon final 6-2, 6-1 and then using not grunting as her excuse, LOL!
     
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