8 Nutrition Myths Debunked

Discussion in 'Health & Fitness' started by Posture Guy, Nov 24, 2013.

  1. r2473

    r2473 Legend

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    Egg producers have a lobby, and still the USDA/FDA recommended limiting intake for years.

    And on and on. Every commodity has a lobby
     
  2. WildVolley

    WildVolley Legend

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    I've always believed that eggs get a bad rap and not just because the Egg Council pays me to say that.:twisted:

    I've seen a number of cites to studies showing either no statistically significant or a very small positive correlation between dietary cholesterol and blood cholesterol. Anyone know of any new studies contradicting those results?

    I'm currently chowing about 14 eggs a week and the only time I had my cholesterol levels checked I was in the good range. Of course, I supplement my eggs with large quantities of butter and bacon. I've basically stopped eating breakfast cereal. For carbs I just have a piece of fruit.
     
  3. r2473

    r2473 Legend

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    ^^Obviously the bacon is saving your life. Bacon cures cancer you know.

    Eggs are fine.

    My point is, you can look at the USDA recommendations, find something you don't agree with, and say it is the result of a strong lobby. And you can do this for anything because everything has a lobby working for it.

    So if I decide I don't like carbs, I can point to the powerful "Carb lobby". But ask yourself why the powerful "Protein Lobby" or powerful "Fat Lobby" weren't able to push their agenda's.

    EDIT: If you want to see the strange negative effects of powerful lobbyists, a good place to look are details of school lunch programs. My mother ran the program for a small Catholic school for 20+ years and would tell me stories about the mandates she had to follow.

    And if you want to understand where our poor eating habits come from, you can learn a lot from school lunch. Kids are always fussy, but according to my mother, things changed quite a lot in her 20 years. She said that the kids would throw away the majority of the food that wasn't "junk food" (chicken nuggets, pizza, etc). She had to find creative ways to meet the government's rather crazy nutritional requirements (and what qualifies as meeting those; lots of garbage qualifies) with what the kids would actually eat (again, lots of garbage), and try to sneak in something with nutritional value. Then she had to be wary of parents that would complain that the school had the nerve to serve her kid green beans instead of French fries, so her kid didn't eat anything for lunch, "how dare you tell me how to raise my kid", etc. You know what I mean.

    School lunch is a crazy world, but very, very instructive.
     
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2013
  4. movdqa

    movdqa Legend

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    The egg company that I own is one of the largest in the US. I once called investor services at the company and was connected to the CFO of the company. Another time CNBC had him in for an interview some time after a good earnings report. He showed up for the interview in a checkered flannel shirt and trousers as if he had just picked up the eggs himself from the farm.

    Egg growers may have a lobby but it doesn't look terribly effective.

    > Every commodity has a lobby

    Perhaps.

    But the amount of money that the lobby has varies widely and there are competing lobbies.
     
  5. movdqa

    movdqa Legend

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    > So if I decide I don't like carbs, I can point to the powerful
    > "Carb lobby". But ask yourself why the powerful "Protein
    > Lobby" or powerful "Fat Lobby" weren't able to push their
    > agenda's.

    Do you trade commodities or commodity companies?
     
  6. TCF

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    Ha, I am no obsessed health nut but this does not pass the sniff test. I would guess all those people and 'studies' are sponsored by the cured meat industry in some way, shape, or form.

    Common sense says its doubtful the human body was designed to eat large amounts of meat processed with numerous chemicals.

    Enjoy if you like it....but just like you do not believe the studies saying its bad, also do not buy into the bacon is great thing either. Odds are some trade group has their hands in that message too.
     
  7. r2473

    r2473 Legend

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    I work for a company that makes ag loans and grew up on a farm. I know my way around commodities.
     
  8. movdqa

    movdqa Legend

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    I trade commodities and commodity companies.

    I know my way around the commodities and companies that I trade. Are you making megabucks at it?
     
  9. r2473

    r2473 Legend

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    ^^I don't have a pot pi$$ in
     
  10. maleyoyo

    maleyoyo Rookie

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    Posture Guy & movdqa:

    I did read the article’s sources about sodium intake, and here is what I found:

    “This review set out to assess whether intensive support and encouragement to cut down on salt in foods reduced the risk of death or cardiovascular disease. This advice did reduce the amount of salt eaten, which led to a small reduction in blood pressure by six months. There was not enough information to detect the expected effects on deaths and cardiovascular disease predicted by the blood pressure reductions found. There was limited evidence that dietary advice to reduce salt may increase deaths in people with heart failure. Our review does not mean that asking people to reduce salt should be stopped. People should continue to strive to do this. However, additional measures - reducing the amount of hidden salt in processed foods, for example – will make it much easier for people to stick to a lower salt diet.”

    And Mr. Gunnar’s conclusion for the article was:
    “Bottom Line: Sodium restriction has been thoroughly tested. None of these studies have found any evidence that it actually leads to better outcomes.”
    He cleverly made an absolute statement as a myth to be debunked: “ Everyone Should be Cutting Back on Sodium”. I think we can all agree that the majority of the population, not all, consumes way more sodium than we need based on the food available.

    As an average guy, I can see that his intention was to sensationalize the topic by playing with words. Indeed, there was nothing new, but then what else we can expect from a guy writing for a magazine and trying to sell papers.
     
  11. movdqa

    movdqa Legend

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    It may very well be that some people get too much sodium and some don't get enough. I know that I get cramps when my electrolyte levels are too low.
     
  12. Posture Guy

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    re the post that had the link about eggs and prostate cancer, observational studies like that are very difficult to use to draw firm conclusions. They beg some interesting questions, but there are so many confounding variables that it's almost impossible to draw conclusions with certainty.

    For example, the people eating eggs, were they also eating grains? Were they eating the same amount of grains as people who ate no eggs, or more grains? What about processed sugars? Some postulate that a high fat diet in the presence of grains and processed sugars has a very different effect on the body than a high fat diet with no grains or processed sugars.

    Hopefully we get more valuable data as time goes by, but at this point I think the benefits of choline far outweigh any perceived risks.
     
  13. Posture Guy

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    I do like the line about 'coffee is unicorn blood'. Hah!

    And while the article didn't address farmed fish versus wild caught, I think farmed fish is both ecologically kinda scary, and nutritionally inferior to wild caught. Check out what they feed farmed fish. In many cases, it's absolutely gross.
     
  14. movdqa

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    My wife doesn't buy farmed fish - I didn't really ask her why because she was adamant about it but I figured that she had a good reason for it.
     
  15. West Coast Ace

    West Coast Ace G.O.A.T.

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    Well said. Above and beyond that, Food has become people's best friend, way of dealing with sadness, rejection... and people (especially over 30) drink way too much alcohol and don't realize how many calories it packs. And most Americans aren't playing tennis (or exercising to improve their tennis) like many of us on these boards.

    A little common sense goes a long way - food is fuel. One size (diet strategy) doesn't fit all.

    My heroine:

    [​IMG]
     
  16. movdqa

    movdqa Legend

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    A lot of women hate this lady - I guess that she makes them look bad.
     
  17. Posture Guy

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    People love their excuses. Everyone has a story about why something in their life isn't better than it is. And a lot of folks get VERY attached to their stories.
     
  18. West Coast Ace

    West Coast Ace G.O.A.T.

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    ^^^^ Yes. She has irked those lacking discipline and self-respect. Boo hoo!

    I guess I'm doomed; if I had a dime for every pound of farm raised salmon I've eaten I could retire.
     
  19. Posture Guy

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    West Coast......doesn't mean you're "doomed", but does mean you've been eating some stuff you'd probably rather not eat if you knew what it was.

    When we eat an animal, by proxy we also eat what they eat. I'll include a link below from Mark Sisson's site. You can easily verify what he wrote elsewhere. Factory farmed fish generally is loaded with some pretty toxic crap. And now there are more and more genetically modified "foods" being fed to these fish. If you're comfortable eating all that stuff, have at it. I'm definitely avoiding it.

    Note: I find it amusing that TW automatically puts asterisks to 'black out' part of the word "retar-dant". But when you eat factory farmed fish, you're getting some. So the good news is, if your spouse tries to set you ablaze, your survival chances just went up a bit!

    http://www.marksdailyapple.com/salmon-factory-farm-vs-wild/#axzz2mGrumUrm

    To truly whet your appetite, I can’t skip the added ingredients you’ll get with a farmed fillet: dioxins, PCBs, fire ******ants (those da-n things are everywhere, aren’t they???), pesticides (especially for sea lice), antibiotics, copper sulfate (to take care of algae on the nets), and – oh yeah – canthaxanthin (a dye associated with retinal damage used to make gray farmed fish various shades of “wild” pink).

    As for dioxins, PCBs, and fire ******ants, they show up in wild varieties as well, but the concentrations are vastly different. Tests have shown that farmed salmon contains 16 times more cancer-linked PCBs than wild salmon. The reason behind this difference? It’s those nasty little protein pellets – nuggets of mostly mashed fish and fish oil. The intense concentration of toxins from the fish feed builds up in the raised salmon over time – from fish farm to your fish dinner. Bon Appétit, by the way!
     
  20. r2473

    r2473 Legend

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    It has nothing to do with discipline. People could look like that, but the USDA is controlled by the HFCS and processed grain lobbyists. In modern food HFCS and processed grains are in everything. Couple that with the USDA recommending that we eat 60% or more of our calories daily from carbs and you get fat people.

    And once we get caught in this cycle, there is no way we can exercise. And even if we did, exercise does nothing for losing or controlling weight. In fact, some of the most active people are the fattest. Think about construction workers. Active people, but fat. Modern research has proven that exercise makes us fat.

    So it really has nothing to do with discipline. This probably makes us all feel good, but do you really think that past generations were more disciplined than we are now? Of course not. There hasn't been any evolution in the past 50 years or less. It is all about the government being in bed with big business. Forces beyond our control that pretty much force us to be fat. It's not our fault at all.
     
  21. Povl Carstensen

    Povl Carstensen Legend

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    Yes this, combined with the supersize, bigger soft drinks bottles etc. Candy, choccolate bars etc. also comes in bigger servings now than earlier. Remember the 19 cl Coca Cola bottle? It was a beauty.
     
  22. OTMPut

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    Convenience as a virtue ranks on par (probably displaced it) with say being truthful or heroic.

    Everyday life is riddled with "click away", "dont have to do nothing, just order from couch", "no you dont have to move", "now all in one pack", etc, etc.

    To think this would not have any unintended consequence would be naive.
     
  23. ollinger

    ollinger Legend

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    ^^ Interesting to read in the January issue of Car and Driver that we're only about 3 years away from the advent of cars that do most of the driving for themselves. People used to think this was not feasible in the near future because of some kind of under-road track or guidewire infrastructure that would be needed, but we've gotten past that barrier. The computerized "visual" technology that already allows cars to park themselves and hit the brakes on their own or swerve away from obstacles is being refined to essentially recognize all the things you recognize when you drive. Within the decade all you'll need to do is input changes of destination, though I imagine the GPS could handle that for you. Engineers say the only real obstacle now is the legal one of whose fault an accident would be.
     
  24. El Diablo

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    this of course will mean all cars on a road will need to be going essentially the same speed
     
  25. Overdrive

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    Only if you buy the larger versions. If you go to the check out, the packages are actually smaller but charge the same price.
     
  26. maleyoyo

    maleyoyo Rookie

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    For our food choices we can only choose 2 of the three options: convenient, healthy, or cheap. If you want convenient and healthy food, it ain’t cheap. If you want it healthy and and cheap, it won’t be so convenient. If you like it cheap and convenient, it sure can’t be healthy.
     
  27. SteveI

    SteveI Legend

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    I have to agree in most cases. You can rip open a bag of salad and add a few things and you are good to go. You can also make a large amount of black beans and brown rice and keep that on hand. Add some lean meat and veggies and you have a cheap and easy meal.
     
  28. r2473

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    Can I choose tasty?
     
  29. Posture Guy

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    No.

    Next question, please.
     
  30. maleyoyo

    maleyoyo Rookie

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    If something tastes good or makes you feel good it’s poisonous. Think bacon, ice cream, candy, carbs, alcohol, smoking, drugs, fat, Hollywood, video games, internet, Facebook, salt… so on and so forth…
     
  31. Posture Guy

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    One thing I've found interesting is that the longer I'm on this style of eating, the better this kind of food tastes and the less I enjoy the stuff I used to consider a treat. I used to LOVE places like Cold Stone Creamery and would get these elaborate concoctions with rich ice cream, brownies, cherries and hot fudge. Now, that stuff just doesn't appeal to me.

    To me, a hamburger comprised of grass fed organically raised beef topped with raw milk/grass fed cheese tastes awesome. or one of my favorite meals, sautée up a cup of mixed greens in grassfed butter with some garlic and onions, add in 3 'clean' eggs and some grassfed cheese and it's a great scramble that keeps me fueled for a long time. For dessert, I'd rather have a ripe mango or some kiwi than a bowl of ice cream.

    And I love how I feel when I eat this way. My adrenals are functioning at a much higher level, energy and immune function is significantly improved. And I don't feel deprived at all.
     
  32. El Diablo

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    ^^ what measurements of your "adrenals" and your "immune function" did you use, or is this all an elaborate delusion?
     
  33. r2473

    r2473 Legend

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    ^^Posture Guy is just frustrated because he can no longer enjoy Cold Stone without guilt.

    And Maleyoyo is frustrated because he can no longer enjoy grass fed Kardashians without guilt.
     
  34. ollinger

    ollinger Legend

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    Does ANYONE enjoy Cold Stone? Gummiest ice cream I've ever had, apparently engineered less for taste than for its capacity to be spread out thinly on that cold slab and then reconstituted into a bowl.
     
  35. maleyoyo

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    Holy cow! grass fed huh…no wonder their … are so big.
     
  36. Povl Carstensen

    Povl Carstensen Legend

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    Well here in Denmark the trend has been that the packages have become bigger, and the smaller are no longer available. The biggest selling newer line of icecream is called "Magnum", etc...
     
  37. Posture Guy

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    el Diablo, a combination of objective and subjective measurements. With respect to adrenal issues, I've suffered from adrenal fatigue for many years after a 2 year period of off the charts physical, financial, emotional and spiritual stress. The onset was actually back in Dec '93. In the intervening years, I've sadly had to become very well tuned to what helps and hinders my body. Also had standard adrenal function panels, like cortisol levels over a 24 hour period, other adrenal-related hormone levels, etc... Re immune function, both subjective observations like things like how much I can exercise without crashing my immune system and getting sick (one of the main ways my issues have manifested over the last 20 years), but also measuring things like t-cell counts. 5 years ago, my immune markers were so low that had they had a slightly different profile, my doc would've thought I had lymphoma. Now they are all in or very close to the normal range, and my subjective experience correlates perfectly with that. My ability to engage in physical stress without an adrenal or immune backlash is MUCH better after transitioning to this style of eating, especially eliminating grains.
     
  38. SteveI

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    Posture Guy:

    Great work getting back on track. Nice to see you have numbers to confirm how you are feeling. In most cases "adrenal fatigue" is quite clear to the person suffering from it. The immune issues are also quite clear to you when you have them. Your doctor appears to be on top of your issues and you are.

    Good Luck..
     
  39. ollinger

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    ^^ notwithstanding the joke here, animal studies reveal just the opposite. If animals (studies mostly done with small mammals) are made deficient in a particular nutrient and then offered a choice of two chows -- one with it and one without it -- they very consistently seek the chow with the nutrient they lack. Well, so much for being a more advanced life form!
     
  40. Posture Guy

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    Thanks SteveI. My doc has played a role (he's a neuro-immunologist), but most of the improvements are from things I've done on my own. He's been very impressed with the improvements shown in my blood work, and I'm excited about the changes I'm experiencing in day to day life. Many years ago, an "active" day was going for a 30 minute brisk walk. And a recovery day was spent basically lying on the couch with flu-like symptoms. Now, an active day is singles tennis and an Egoscue workout and a modest amount of strength and conditioning work, and a recovery day is an Egoscue workout, 10 minutes on a rebounder and a 45 minute walk with the dogs.

    And this eating style has absolutely contributed in a very important way to that improvement.
     
  41. AtomicForehand

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  42. movdqa

    movdqa Legend

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    Thanks a ton for that article.
     
  43. r2473

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    About time the "mainstream" catches up with what I've been saying for years.

    This is what I was trying to tell Systemic Anomaly. He's got to stay away from those apples and start eating more bacon.

    Sounds about right to me. I'm tossing out my potatoes, pasta, rice, and bread and filling my pantry with candy. Woot, Woot!!!

    http://newsfeed.time.com/2013/05/09/105-year-old-woman-says-bacon-keeps-her-alive/

    I'm probably going to live to be 150 years old.
     
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2013
  44. OTMPut

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    we need to bring food back to homes. we dont cook as often as we should. far too many of us (at least where i live) "grab" "stuff" from counters/stalls to eat on the go!

    i have been a vegan last three months (an about turn from Paleo, which i followed for two years!). i cook a lot now and what one can make in a kitchen with fresh produce is incredible. just the variety of foods i eat now has exponentially increased from my standard bacon, eggs, cheese, steak diet of two years.

    i don't claim vegan as the best diet. i think a properly executed paleoish diet that includes fresh fruits and tubers is perhaps a more optimal diet. i switched for different reasons.
     
  45. r2473

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    Kris Dillon's curry recipe is the real deal. Just made a Korma tonight. Took all of 20 minutes (I have frozen curry base and I took 2 minutes to put the chicken in a yoghurt marinade on Saturday). I guess you'd have to omit the chicken (and cream?).

    http://www.amazon.com/Curry-Secret-Kris-Dillion/dp/0716021919

    Her Thai curries are awesome too.

    http://www.amazon.com/Thai-Cookery-...KD8_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1386038641&sr=1-1

    If you like Chinese (takeaway style), this is the best:

    http://www.amazon.com/The-Chinese-T...3&sr=8-1&keywords=chinese+restaurant+cookbook

    Practical sauce making:

    http://www.amazon.com/Get-Saucy-Din...UTF8&qid=1386038816&sr=8-1&keywords=get+saucy
     
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2013
  46. movdqa

    movdqa Legend

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    I agree that food prep can greatly improve the diet. Unfortunately too many people don't have the time to shop well and prepare food well and even spend a leisurely amount of time to enjoy their meals.
     
  47. OTMPut

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    Look pretty good. Thanks for the suggestions. Will try them this week.

    Yes i would skip the chicken and use a bunch of vegetables: perhaps mushrooms, potatos, green beans, corn and eggplant.

    My curry base would be ground fresh coconut, chilli powder, turmeric powder, ground ginger and garlic. you can make these over the weekend and stick in the fridge. They stay fresh for a week and come handy.

    Try this. two cups of quinoa, 3 cups of water. use the curry base along with small cut potatos, carrots and green peas and corn. Cook the quinoa and potatos first for 20 minutes and then add all other ingredients and cook it for another 15-20 minutes. Add salt as required. Makes a delicious meal!
     
  48. r2473

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    The curry base from the book is just onions, garlic, green ginger, and water. Simmer for about an hour, blend until smooth, and freeze. Stays forever. I have 25 pints in my freezer.

    When you are ready for use, all you have to do is add oil, blended tomatoes, turmeric, and pa****a. This is the base for everything and from this point, the dish will take just a few minutes. Perfect for weekday meals.

    COOKS TIP: Buy the best garam masala you can find. I got mine from a local Indian restaurant. It makes a big difference.
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2013
  49. West Coast Ace

    West Coast Ace G.O.A.T.

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    Sorry, we can agree to disagree. That is a cop out. The 'too busy to exercise' excuse is ridiculous. People just don't budget their times - that's a discipline issue. And there are plenty of healthy food choices; people just want to eat for pleasure/gratification; food is fuel.
     
  50. Posture Guy

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    FYI, just had some bloodwork done. Wasn't interested in total lipids as I don't think cholesterol levels has anything whatsoever to do with cardiovascular risk. I'm far more interested in inflammation levels. For those who might be interested, here's how some of those markers came back on this kind of diet (which includes eating a LOT of grassfed butter, some grassfed meat and raw milk grassfed cheese, along with lots of veggies, greens, and some low glycemic fruits.

    Lp(a): 13
    CrP: 0.7
    Homocysteine: 7.0

    According to two different doctors, those numbers are "really, really good. They show you have a VERY low risk of cardiovascular disease."
     

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