A new neighbor moved in with 3 pitbulls - WWTTD?

Discussion in 'Odds & Ends' started by norcal, Aug 27, 2007.

  1. norcal

    norcal Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2004
    Messages:
    1,811
    Last night my daughter (4 yrs) and I were walking our (little) dog on our street (we live at the end of a cul de sac) when a neighbor mom called me over. She looked upset and said, "You know those college guys who are moving in across the street? They have 3 pitbulls and they don't seem to have much control over them. I don't know what to do". She has a 5 year old and a two year old as well as a cat who roams the hood.

    Most of my neighbors are families with young kids, cats, dogs etc who are always outside playing. The last thing we need is poorly trained pitbulls running around.

    I am surprised a landlord would rent to young guys with a bunch of pitbulls. Think about the liability. I'm guessing they told the landlord they had a couple dogs but weren't specific about it.

    Should I contact the landlord
    or
    Give the new neighbors a chance (yeah right)

    CN: Mike Vick moved in next door.
     
    #1
  2. Fearsome Forehand

    Fearsome Forehand Professional

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2007
    Messages:
    1,183
    Location:
    USA
    Lucky you.

    Absolutely get all the neighbors together and contact the landlord and b*thc a fit. I would also contact your local police and see what local ordinances apply such as leash laws, etc.

    And I would talk the college kids just don't expect it to do any good. In one ear, out the other.

    Anyone who would bring pit bulls into a residential neighborhood is a total jerk. Those dogs are psychos especially the males. They can go off at any moment like dobermans or german shepherds. In my opinion, vicious breeds like that should be used exclusively for police dogs and excluded as pets.

    When I was a kid, our kitty corner backyard neighbor had two vicious male German Shepherds. One named Bouncer and one named Champ. Champ was particulary vicious and mauled our cocker spaniel once. Bouncer chewed on my arm pretty good when I was about four. I was pals with the owner's four year old son so Bouncer knew me but still felt like I was a potential snack. Finding dead cats around the neighborhood became the norm anytime those two brutes escaped their fenced in yard. And if you climbed up on the fence (a 6' fence?), those two would jump up and try to get you.

    Looking back, I'm amazed none of the neighbors acted proactively and killed those dogs. If I was in a similar situation, those dogs would have poisoned before they killed someone's kid. It's a miracle nothing tragic ever happened given all the small children in that neighborhood. As I recall Champ eventually had to be destroyed because there were too many incidents. What was Mr. Hiller (the owner) thinking? Hard to understand.

    Good luck,man. I wouldn't let your kids out much until the matter is resolved.
     
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2008
    #2
  3. QuietDaze

    QuietDaze Rookie

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2007
    Messages:
    142
    Location:
    Atlanta

    There is way too much drama surrounding pits. Go meet the neighbors and decide for yourself before you jump to conclusions. BTW, anyone who allows their cat to roam free can't get upset when it gets killed by a dog.
     
    #3
  4. Fee

    Fee Legend

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2004
    Messages:
    7,308
    Location:
    In front of my computer, obviously
    Contact the landlord immediately and let him know that you will hold him responsible for the behavior of those dogs. Ask him if his homeowners' policy will cover any damages those dogs create if they escape. That will probably scare him. Also, (without naming our fair city) call the business line of the police department and request a community services officer to come to the neighborhood to speak to all of the concerned parents. That officer might bring along an animal control officer to answer any questions you have about safety, animal behavior, etc, etc. Feel free to invite the college kids and the landlord along (but they probably won't come). These are the proactive steps that you can take to get the assorted 'resources' involved so that the dog owners understand that everyone is keeping an eye on them and their potentially dangerous dogs.
     
    #4
  5. ollinger

    ollinger Legend

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2004
    Messages:
    5,904
    Better keep the door locked. Story on aol news about 5 days ago about a woman who woke up in her own bed to find 2 pit bulls mauling her. They escaped in the neighborhood and came into her house through one of those little pet doorways built into the door to her house.
     
    #5
  6. alwaysatnet

    alwaysatnet Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2004
    Messages:
    524
    No, there is absolutely the appropriate amount of "drama" surrounding pit bulls. They are bred to kill and maul and today's young morons gravitate towards them because it makes them feel like real bad,big men and real studs you'd better not mess with!
    The punks that perpetuate the bad ass mentality by using pit bulls as a way to enhance their own insecure sense of masculinity should do some mandatory long term prison time for negliegently allowing their killing machines to attack others.
    And btw for you... it is the cat's nature to roam about and any dogs known to attack and kill cats should be put down by a vet as a potential killers! A dog that will attack and kill a cat is capable of doing the same to a child.
     
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2007
    #6
  7. QuietDaze

    QuietDaze Rookie

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2007
    Messages:
    142
    Location:
    Atlanta
    Surely you're kidding me. You seriously correlate a dog killing a cat to killing a child? I beg you to look up the difference between animal aggression and people aggression. The two are entirely different. If you have a pet you should contain it - period, otherwise you can't get upset when something happens to it when you weren't protecting it as a responsible owner. It's also the nature of an intact male dog to roam so we should let them? It's also the nature of MOST dogs to chase small furry animals, be a squirrel, bird, or cat. Unfortunately my dog would kill a cat if he could catch one, but he loves children. A child could pretty much do whatever they wanted to him and he wouldn't budge. However, I would NEVER leave him alone with a child - ever. But if a neighbor's cat decided to roam in my yard and gets killed, the dog is at fault? That makes no sense. Are you as up in arms about the number of birds, chipmunks, squirrels and rabbits cats kill? Or are you just ok with them killing pesky mice and rats? What about the many homeless kittens those roaming cats bring into the world? Maybe if you took the time to actually research pits for yourself instead of listening to the media. Yes, some people RAISE them to be mean and unstable but for the most part they are very human friendly and typically animal aggressive. At the end of the day, before a posse forms to get the boys kicked out the responsible and adult thing to do is talk to them and actually ask them what kind of dogs they own and how they plan on containing them. Ask them if the dogs are aggressive. I am an animal lover, I love dogs, I have two Rotties and the conclusions people jump to when they see my dogs is ridiculous. So yes, I am sensitive to people with 'aggressive breeds' and the misconceptions and judgement people seem to lean toward. If it turns out those dogs are dangerous, then by all means they should be put down. If MY dog were dangerous I would give him the shot myself I have no problem with that. But calling landlords and police before you even SPEAK to the neighbors is a bit unreasonable and alarmist.

    And also, as far as the little old lady attacked in her own bed by pitbulls? Get the rest of the story please, it's on CNN. The neighbor's little jack russell terrier was running the streets, the pits broke free chasing him, the dog runs into the womans house via an OPEN sliding glass door (she apparently allows HER dog to go in and out as he pleases without a fenced yard) and jumps on her bed trying to escape the pits. The woman got injured trying to save the jack russell, and when her gun didn't work she commenced to beating the dogs, at which point they turned on her. Don't misunderstand me, the dog's owners (both of them) are absolutely at fault but generally when you break up a dog fight, you get bitten. When you HIT a dog, they will probably defend themselves. So no, the sweet little lady didn't get attacked in her bed. Every last dog owner involved, including the bitten lady is irresponsible.
     
    #7
  8. norcal

    norcal Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2004
    Messages:
    1,811
    I agree, roaming cats do so at their own risk. And of course I plan on talking to the neighbors and meeting the dogs, I introduce myself to all new neighbors. If they are violating their lease by having the dogs there I will have no problem reporting them even if the pits are 'nice'.

    It is pretty obvious Pits and Rotts are inherently dangerous though. Here are the dog homicides over the last year...and many of these were 'family dogs'.

    Pretty easy to do the math on this one:

     
    #8
  9. Jonnyf

    Jonnyf Legend

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2005
    Messages:
    5,048
    Location:
    Scotland ;-)
    I'm not sure if it's inyour list (didn't read the whole list) but a few years ago their was a couple of children killed throughout the UK by pitbulls
     
    #9
  10. Brettolius

    Brettolius Professional

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2004
    Messages:
    815
    Location:
    Beyond Thunderdome
    #10
  11. LafayetteHitter

    LafayetteHitter Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2004
    Messages:
    2,954
    Location:
    Lafayette, Louisiana
    If it's ok for roaming dogs to kill a roaming cat because it's in their nature, the dog owners should beware of roaming humans like myself walking around with a baseball bat or possibly some other weapon who finds it in their nature to kill a roaming dog that might kill a roaming cat! lol
     
    #11
  12. QuietDaze

    QuietDaze Rookie

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2007
    Messages:
    142
    Location:
    Atlanta
    I'm glad you plan on talking to your neighbors first. I think all dogs are dangerous if they are bigger than a football. But that's just me. I do agree that the larger the dog, generally they will do more damage. I'm not a huge statics person because they can be swung in any direction. As far as 'inherently' dangerous, I don't think so. Some dogs are born with mental issues and are crazy. But the majority of dogs don't bite, so for me, the minority of killers and biters don't make a whole breed inherently dangerous. I think people are at fault. For instance, if I knew my dog was dangerous, it's my responsibility to put him down or if I had the means and knowledge, contain him in a way where I was 100% certain he would not escape. A lot of people don't do that. And I don't care if it's a chihuahua or a mastiff. Folks think it's cute when little football dogs snarl and act aggressive, not so cute when its a 120lb rottie so the bigger dog the one people call the puppy police on even if it hasn't even done anything. But ok, I'm off my soap box ;) I'm glad you are going to talk to the boys before calling the law on them. All bets are off if the dogs either 1-don't belong there or 2-are vicious.
     
    #12
  13. QuietDaze

    QuietDaze Rookie

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2007
    Messages:
    142
    Location:
    Atlanta
    LOL - I would be the first one to tell you to bash my sweet dog's head in if he threatened you because he was running around the streets. 'Pets' do not belong in the streets - out there it's survival of the fittest. :)
     
    #13
  14. alwaysatnet

    alwaysatnet Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2004
    Messages:
    524
    I've had lots of dogs that would chase a cat. But none that would kill one. A dog that would kill a cat is overly aggressive and dangerous. Most dogs aren't killers but you seem to think it's a natural byproduct of domesticated canine behavior. It says a lot about your starting point in all this.

    Apples and oranges. A cat may kill a mouse but I've yet to read of a cat mauling a child to death, unlike a pit bull.

    I'm not in favor of letting unfixed cats roam but it is in a cat's nature to roam about. And unless you are a mouse or bird there is no danger from a roaming cat.
    You can't say the same for a roaming pit bull.
    Unfortunately for you the link between pit bulls and the thug wannabes that own them is solid. You can't seperate the two as much as you'd like to.

    A little punk with self esteem problems and a dacshund is no problem. A little punk with self esteem problems and a pit bull,or two, is a disaster waiting to happen. Guess what types of people like to own pit bulls?
    Invariably it's someone that needs a dangerous killer breed to prove what a big man he is. If you need a dog for companionship then get a golden retriever. If you need one to intimidate people then you get a pit bull(or some other large aggressive breed).
    Those are the facts. Period!

    I know a thing or two about dog breeds and the agression that is innate to the pit bull is undeniable and putting a pit bull around any other breed is asking for problems. The number of "friendly well adjusted" pit bulls that have turned on family members is staggering.
    I understand that a pit bull isn't inherently evil(whatever that means in dog terms) but when you combine the potential for violence bred into the dog and the sort of idiot yahoo that wants a killer breed you have a recipie for disaster.
     
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2007
    #14
  15. GRANITECHIEF

    GRANITECHIEF Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2004
    Messages:
    3,737
    Location:
    Santa Barbara
    My wife used to have a chow mix, before i met her. It bit her 2yo daughter in the neck as she stepped over it and almost killed her, just missed the jugular. Nice family doggy.

    Now we have 115 lb newfoundland that keeps a close eye on the children, in a protective way. Also acts as a lifeguard at the beach. He does chase the cat when he sees him in the downstairs part of the house, but its because he wants to play.
     
    #15
  16. Moose Malloy

    Moose Malloy Legend

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2005
    Messages:
    7,863
    Notable Pit Bulls owners include:

    Jessica Alba[93]
    Michael J. Fox[94]
    Alicia Silverstone[95]
    Jessica Biel owns three pit bulls[96][97]
    Adam Brody and Rachel Bilson have a pit bull named Penny Lane.[98]
    TV cook Rachael Ray has two pit bulls.[102]
    Comedian Jon Stewart has 2 pit bulls, named Monkey and Shamsky.[103][104]
     
    #16
  17. Fearsome Forehand

    Fearsome Forehand Professional

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2007
    Messages:
    1,183
    Location:
    USA
    Agree that is irresponsible to allow dogs and cats to roam free if you don't live on a farm.

    Pits Bulls and their ilk are bred to be super aggressive and vicious. They are attack dogs and/or guard dogs. They can be "nice" one minute and then the next minute something sets them off and they are trying to rip out you throat. That tendency is not true of all breeds. When was the last time you heard of someone being mauled by a cocker spaniel or a golden retriever? It is almost unheard of for those breeds to attack someone. 99.99% of the problems are with certain breeds. It is inappropriate for vicious breeds to live in residential areas.

    Dauchsunds are sort of nasty also. I think they are just piised off because they are so short. They are the napoleons of psycho dogs. But, at least they can't rip your throat out unless you are laying down on the ground.

    I don't think the OP and his neighbors would be out of line by demanding the landlord take immediate action regarding the pit bulls or risk a lawsuit. He and his family shouldn't have to live next to that sort of a potential threat.
     
    #17
  18. alwaysatnet

    alwaysatnet Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2004
    Messages:
    524
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2007
    #18
  19. Fee

    Fee Legend

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2004
    Messages:
    7,308
    Location:
    In front of my computer, obviously
    I have friends who own two 'pit bulls' but they are not the typical American Pit Bull (the in-bred, aggressive kind). They are well-bred, from registered lines of something or other Bulldog (sorry I can't remember the real name). These are very docile, friendly, even affectionate dogs and I really like them. BUT, I don't ever want to be alone with them, even if they are fixed females. I know that somewhere deep inside them there is still an instinct to kill if necessary. Thankfully, this couple does not have kids and they don't ever plan to have kids, so I think those two dogs could die of old age without ever biting anyone.

    However, what I have seen in America is this mutant breed of dog that was taken away from its protective, working dog instinct and turned into something else entirely. That is the dog that I dislike and the one that I am very wary of. Norcal and his neighbors are wise to feel the same, in my opinion.
     
    #19
  20. WildVolley

    WildVolley Legend

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2007
    Messages:
    5,688
    Pit bulls are the psychopaths of the dog world, mostly because they've been bred to be. Strangely enough, some of the best fighting pit bulls are almost completely harmless to adults who aren't afraid of them. This is because a lot of the fighting breeds are such that they actually separate the dogs by hand. The one's that didn't take a bite out of the owner when they pried their jaws apart with a stick were allowed to live and breed.

    I've met random pit bulls that I could have picked up and run off with, and I'm was a total stranger. Yet, I wouldn't want those dogs around small children. I've seen attacking dogs run around someone who isn't afraid of them to go after someone who is. They're pretty good at sensing fear.
     
    #20
  21. angharad

    angharad Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2006
    Messages:
    498
    I'll agree that some dogs are more prone to violence than others, but it truly depends on the dog and its treatment. Two examples: A friend of mine (a piano teacher) adopted a formerly abused rottweiler from a shelter. She had kids walking in and out of her house for lessons, and this dog never so much as growled at any of them. It was an angel. On the other hand, a neighbour purchased a dalmatian mix puppy that savaged a 3-year-old girl. If you're going to make a fuss - which I do think you should do - make sure that the same rules apply to all dogs in the neighbourhood. If you won't tolerate a pit bull being off their leash, you shouldn't tolerate any dog being off its leash.

    When I was younger, I was attacked by a roaming cat for making the grievous error of retrieving a tennis ball from under the tree it was sitting in. A few months of antibiotics and keeping your arm in a sling seems to be a bit shy of "no danger".
     
    #21
  22. Bodacious DVT

    Bodacious DVT Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2007
    Messages:
    560
    my dad was recently bitten by a neighbor's dog.

    she defended the dog saying that "it was a friendly nip" and "she only does that when you do something to threaten her". yea right. my dad was rushed to the ER with a gouge out of his calf. so much for a "friendly nip."

    i would find out if they need to be kept on a leash and dont be afraid to call in a violation. unfortunately, you often cant do anything (legal) until its too late.
     
    #22
  23. alwaysatnet

    alwaysatnet Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2004
    Messages:
    524

    Yes, those notorious cat maulings that happen frequently to unsuspecting people can be quite a problem.
     
    #23
  24. CanadianChic

    CanadianChic Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2006
    Messages:
    2,303
    Location:
    CowTown
    Uh huh, nice try sweetums. I almost fell for yet another of your hypothetical "issues". I'm still weary of you since the "my buddy's wife" drama. ;)
     
    #24
  25. tennispro11

    tennispro11 Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2007
    Messages:
    1,586
    Location:
    Kansas
    That is not really a factual statement. Pit bulls are by far the most known dogs to attack kids for no known reason. This is proven over and over again by the amount of press they get every time this happens. I have had several experiences with pit bulls that were raised in a loving home and environment. They will go after you for anything. I would not trust any pit bull period.
     
    #25
  26. angharad

    angharad Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2006
    Messages:
    498

    Congratulations! You completely missed my point. Let me try to spell it out: Cats can be dangerous. Are they as dangerous as dogs? No. I never claimed them to be. But to say that they pose no threat at all is absolutely ridiculous.
     
    #26
  27. CanadianChic

    CanadianChic Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2006
    Messages:
    2,303
    Location:
    CowTown
    The likelihood is very rare.
     
    #27
  28. crazysoccer00

    crazysoccer00 Rookie

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2006
    Messages:
    128
    #28
  29. Fearsome Forehand

    Fearsome Forehand Professional

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2007
    Messages:
    1,183
    Location:
    USA
    They stop filming when he ate them all. ;O)
     
    #29
  30. alwaysatnet

    alwaysatnet Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2004
    Messages:
    524
    And congratulations! You completely missed my point in return.
    Yours is the first case I've ever heard of an unprovoked(really?) cat attack.Or any cat attack at all, for that matter.
    Could a cat attack a person? Sure. So could a squirrel or a sparrow or even a garden snake.
    But as I claimed, unless one is a bird or mouse the chances of being attacked by a cat are about as good as winning the state lottery or being hit by falling space debris. You haven't changed my mind one bit.
     
    #30
  31. CanadianChic

    CanadianChic Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2006
    Messages:
    2,303
    Location:
    CowTown
    Oh, that's too funny. Reminds me...a friend told me her cat caught a bird and brought it to the back door. She was watching out the window and said the bird must have been suicidal as it basically flew right into her cat's mouth. (You would have to see the fat lazy cat to fully get the humour).
     
    #31
  32. alwaysatnet

    alwaysatnet Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2004
    Messages:
    524
    Yes indeed. If a cat really did attack this guy unprevoked it would be the first such case in recorded history that I'm aware of.
    Domesticated cat brains aren't wired that way and the term 'fraidy cat wasn't coined for nothing.
    I had an ugly scraggly tomcat scratch my finger once for stroking it's tail. The tail had been injured previously,unbeknownst to me. That is as close as I have ever come to a "cat attack".
    To claim cats can be dangerous in any real life way is absurd.
     
    #32
  33. Fearsome Forehand

    Fearsome Forehand Professional

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2007
    Messages:
    1,183
    Location:
    USA
    Maybe he was attacked by the rare and little understood "pit cat."
     
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2008
    #33
  34. Deuce

    Deuce Banned

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2004
    Messages:
    5,270
    Location:
    A not so parallel universe...
    ^ You are yet another who simply - and blindly - swallows everything you are fed by the media, rather than seeking the truth.
    Read on to be educated...

    ^ I agree. This has been my experience.

    ^ Indeed - too many people speak before they think.

    ^ I don't buy that for a second.
    There are no "inherently dangerous" types of dog.

    ^ The latter portion of your paragraph is correct - young morons indeed gravitate toward pit bulls.
    The first portion of your paragraph is very wrong - pit bulls are not inherently "bred to kill and maul". If they behave thusly, it is the result of the training and influence of the young morons you speak of.
    Just like the young morons themselves, pit bulls are not born bad. Outside influences make them bad. If there are no negative outside influences, the person does not become a "young moron", and the pit bull does not become a dangerous threat.
    Cause and effect.

    ^ I agree - except for you reference to "killing machines". I would describe them as manufactured killing machines, for the reason I cited above.
    ^ This is obviously untrue.
    Technically, all dogs are "capable" of killing a child. But then, all adult humans are "capable" of the very same thing.
    ^ I agree... but this is so simply because of the reputation that pit bulls have.
    Why do they have this reputation? Well, certainly NOT because they are "born killers", or anything close to that.
    Somewhere along the way, some of the "young morons" with self esteem problems decided to adopt the pit bull as their security blanket. Why the pit bull? Likely due to its intimidating physical appearance. "Young morons" rely very much on physical appearance. And a pit bull simply looks more intimidating that just about any other type of dog. They look muscular - like body builders. This aids with both the intimidation factor, as well as with identifying oneself through a separate object. The 'cool, tough' car or motorcycle, the 'cool, tough' tattoos, the 'cool, tough' clothes... and the 'cool, tough' dog. It all goes together. No other breed of dog would have fit the bill. So, the pit bull it was.
    And what better way to be "cool and tough" and intimidating than to train your tough looking dog to behave aggressively?
    As time has gone on, this unfortunate use made of the pitt bull has snowballed.
    But don't blame the pit bull.

    All that said... college guys with three pit bulls doesn't sound like a good recipe to me, as "college guys" run dangerously close to the "young morons" previously referred to.
     
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2007
    #34
  35. Fearsome Forehand

    Fearsome Forehand Professional

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2007
    Messages:
    1,183
    Location:
    USA
    When Cats Attack:

    My only experience with a cat attack: I was at a friend's apartment when I was in college. She had a cat which I was pretending to like because I wanted to nail her. (In reality, I dislike cats and am somewhat allergic to them.) The cat was on my lap at the very moment one of my roommates entered the room with his black labrador "Bo" in tow.

    After an instant which seemed to last forever, the dog saw the cat and made a move towards it. The cat (more importantly the cat that had not yet been declawed) decided it was no longer safe sitting on my lap anymore and entered into what I can only describe as a frenzied climb up my upper body. I was in Florida so I think I was wearing a tank top. An unfortunate wardrobe choice given the circumstances. Needless to say, I was scratched up pretty good. I believe I had repressed this memory until now.

    Cats do like to play "the ambush game" so maybe that is what happened to the cat attack victim.
     
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2008
    #35
  36. alwaysatnet

    alwaysatnet Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2004
    Messages:
    524
    I too feel you are teetering on the brink of understanding but then you pull back at the last moment.
    What you fail to take into account is that pit bulls had certain characteristics "bred" into them that makes them unique from all other breeds. They are fearless,aggressive and can be very very violent if something in them snaps a certain way. Everything about this "designer" breed makes it an ideal killing machine.
    You can't say that about a golden retriever, an Australian Cattle dog, a dachshund,etc. because those dogs weren't created with the idea of attacking and mauling something in mind. It's as simple as that and yes, a well treated pit bull may be quite loving...until something happens to push that dog's buttons. Then it is indeed a killing machine. I've had a dozen dogs and never had the fear that one day one of them would be capable of turning on me.
    A golden retriever doesn't instill that sense of fear in one. A pit bull does.

    To address your other point,yeah, all dogs are capable of killing a child( I guess a determined chihuahua could,if given enough time). But a dog that would attack and kill a cat, in a pack or solo, purely for the sport of the kill is
    clearly a potentially lethal beast should it snap.
    It has not been sufficiently domesticated.
     
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2007
    #36
  37. Deuce

    Deuce Banned

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2004
    Messages:
    5,270
    Location:
    A not so parallel universe...
    ^ No, it's not nearly "as simple as that" because of the variable of human influence, which you yourself made reference to several times with the "young morons", etc.

    ^ Pit bulls are simply physically stronger than most, if not all, other breeds. So, when they 'snap', they can potentially do more damage. This, combined with the fact that "young morons" gravitate to them, and the media's sensationalism, explains their unfortunate reputation.
    Every breed of dog, given equal 'upbringing' and human influence, is just as capable of 'snapping' as is the pit bull - no more, and no less. It's just that the pit bull, due to its superior physical strength, can cause more damage when it 'snaps' than can other, less physically strong breeds.
     
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2007
    #37
  38. CanadianChic

    CanadianChic Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2006
    Messages:
    2,303
    Location:
    CowTown
    Since when are German Shepherds considered to be a dangerous animal? You are aware they are trained to "be" vicious by their handlers - the reason they are chosen for police duty is their ability to follow commands and their loyalty (combined with superiour intelligence, stamina and muscular build) - not for some "mean" or "violent" personality trait.

    Yeah...you had my attention but just had to go and lose it by pulling the "crass" card.
     
    #38
  39. alwaysatnet

    alwaysatnet Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2004
    Messages:
    524
    Yeah, it's taken for granted a well treated pit bull will behave better than a pit bull raised by say,Michael Vick. But the very characteristics that were bred into the breed in the first place,part of what makes a pit bull a pit bull, is the temperment.
    A temperment to maul, attack, fight etc. There's no way of getting around that.
    Bringing a pit bull around another breed of dog is a big risk and so is leaving a pit bull alone with a child. The fact is the accounts of "good" pit bulls that one day snapped and mauled a family member are very very numerous.
    They weren't just bred for their physical qualities. They were also bred for their personalities(aggression,fearlessness,etc.)

    You're only half right. Because of the fighter's psyche that was bred into the breed a pit bull is infinitely more liable to snap than a chihuahua,let's say.
    Other dog's simply don't have the fearless aggressiveness in them that a pit bull does and that makes all the difference.
     
    #39
  40. CanadianChic

    CanadianChic Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2006
    Messages:
    2,303
    Location:
    CowTown
    Interesting that you mention that breed Always (for me anyway). There are only two times that I have been "attacked" for lack of a better word by the canine variety. My hands were nipped at by a pit bull once and I was outright bitten by a chihuahua once on the hand. I would take my chances against a rotty over a chihuahua any day. Carry on.....:p
     
    #40
  41. Kobble

    Kobble Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2004
    Messages:
    2,365
    Seems like the hornets nest of trolls was hit; continuing to pump out myth after myth.

    As for norcal, you live in a **** neighborhood, now. Take this as a sign of the future. Move out.
     
    #41
  42. Deuce

    Deuce Banned

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2004
    Messages:
    5,270
    Location:
    A not so parallel universe...
    I don't believe this nonsense for a second.

    If you p!ss off a dalmation (or any other breed of dog), he is just as likely to snap at you as is a pit bull - no more, no less.
    Pit bulls are not inherently aggressive. If they were, 100% of them would attack at some point in their lives.
     
    #42
  43. CanadianChic

    CanadianChic Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2006
    Messages:
    2,303
    Location:
    CowTown
    Even though I am sure you were lumping me in that descriptor, that line is too funny!! Thanks for the laugh!!
     
    #43
  44. 35ft6

    35ft6 Legend

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2005
    Messages:
    6,557
    From what I've experienced, this is absolutely correct. My ex-gf's retarded brother had a pitbull. It seemed like the gentlest dog in the world, but one day my GF woke him up so she could open her closet, he was asleep in front of it, and it mauled her. He almost bit off her fingers as she fought him off. Luckily for my ex, she is feisty, she fought off the dog enough to crawl out of her apartment and demanded a second opinion when the first doctor said they couldn't reattach her fingers, which were hanging by skin. Her demands were met in the form of a microsurgeon in Manhattan who volunteered to operate immediately. This dog would have killed or horribly maimed 2 little kids.
    In your opinion, what cognitive distinction would the pitbull make?
    By that logic, are people allowed to kill pitbulls that stray from their yard on sight?
    Do you own a pitbull? If not, you do realize that the crux of this discussion is pitbull, not dogs in general. Not all dogs are bred the same or have the same jaw strength.
    How many articles have you read about golden retrievers killing somebody?
    Waiting until the dogs "prove themselves dangerous" is stupid. Real politik in this instance. Look after your kids. Get them pitbulls out of there IMO.

    It's her fault that HER dog ran into his home and she happened to be in there?
    My sister's poodle was biting me last night because that's how it plays sometimes. When a dog that isn't a pitbull does that, it's kind of cute I guess, but dangerous when a pit does it.
    These anecdotes establish no cause and effect whatsoever. Your assumption seems to be that if a dog is gentle, it's because it was raised that way plus was genetically predisposed towards gentleness. That doesn't exactly illuminate. I guess a pitbull is gentle until it isn't by that logic, but I don't think it's worth risking the safety of children to gauge the turning point. Some breeds are simply more aggressive and powerful. They're animals. All the love and unconditional trust in their "doing the right thing" isn't going to stop them from being animals. It's ridiculous. Even Seigfried or Roy blamed himself after being mauled, and you would think they would describe themselves as the biggest animal lovers in the world. And they might be, but people are stupid when they project human motivation and understanding into animals, even domesticated ones. If you won't tolerate a pit bull being off their leash, you shouldn't tolerate any

    Norcal, I would do everything I could to get those dogs out of that neighborhood.
    To me, the part in bold is meaningless, the dog equivalent of "the lord works in mysterious ways." If the overwhelming majority of past dog attacks were perpetuated by pitbulls and Rotts, then to me it stands to reason that all dogs are NOT created the same, and that those two breeds are more likely to cause injury.

    Back to my ex's retarded brother. He had to bring the dog up from Texas to NYC because nobody in his family back in Texas would watch it because they were afraid. ******, a dog lover of the unconditional kind, poo-poohed the notion of his dog being dangerous or worthy of being feared, and when we discussed how his dad didn't want the dog around because one day the dog just started and growled at him for no reason, he blamed it on his dad for "probably giving the dog a weird look." :sad:
     
    #44
  45. 35ft6

    35ft6 Legend

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2005
    Messages:
    6,557
    Do you think all breeds of dogs are equally predisposed to, say, retrieving dead game? Did you know that dogs have been bred not just to look differently but to behave differently? When a dog, like the pitbull, has incredibly strong jaws, what do you suppose they were bred to do? Nature AND nurture are factors here, and it's folly to suppose that humans are so great that through nurture they can completely neutralize the nature of animals.
     
    #45
  46. Deuce

    Deuce Banned

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2004
    Messages:
    5,270
    Location:
    A not so parallel universe...
    All this tells me is that, due to a negative experience of a personal friend of yours with a pit bull, you have something against them.

    Gee... if my friend got hit by a Ford Taurus, should I hate all Ford Tauruses?

    Now you're comparing tigers to domestic dogs.
    Not only tigers... but Las Vegas, 'show' tigers...

    In trying to 'prove' your point that pit bulls are more dangerous than any other type of dog, you offered what seemed to be an article of some sort on dog attacks.
    Unfortunately for you, the article also produced some common sense, like the quotes both above and below.

    How about an injection of logic into your sensationalistic condemnation of pit bulls (and Rottweillers)...
    The majority of past dog attacks were perpetuated by pit bulls and Rotweillers because more "young morons" own these two breeds than any other type of breed.
    It is very likely, even, that "young morons" own more pit bulls and Rottweillers than all other breeds of dog combined.
    THIS is why more pit bulls and rotweillers attack than any other breed - because pit bulls and rotweillers have an overwhelmingly higher number of idiots as owners than any other breed.
     
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2007
    #46
  47. Phil

    Phil Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2004
    Messages:
    3,877
    Location:
    In a tent, along the Silk Road
    I agree that ALL dogs should be controlled and kept on a leash, but...this all smacks, to me, of more mass hysterial ala the constant "ter-rist" fear mongering that we've been inundated with for the last few years. Oh, and also food and pedophile scares, etc., etc. We are becoming a nanny state that is extremely pre-disposed to fear and paranoia. The list of fatalities that Norcal posted is sobering, but I'm not sure this is the full story...though maybe it is.

    I think anyone who TRAINS a dog to kill-a pit, sheppherd, etc., should be jailed for a long time. The problem isn't the dogs...as usual, its the HUMANS.

    I've read that a pit bull, raised from birth by a good family, and given love and care, will be as friendly and obedient as just about any other dog. Most of the pits that I've "met" are a helluva lot friendlier than the ill-tempered rat-like chihuahuas that seem to populate my neighborhood. But I'm not a dog expert...but again, I think the "pit bull" scare smacks of the knee-jerk paranoia that has overtaken our country (and the UK).
     
    #47
  48. Dilettante

    Dilettante Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    May 13, 2005
    Messages:
    2,108
    Location:
    Katy Perry's belly button
    And Spain for that matter.
     
    #48
  49. 35ft6

    35ft6 Legend

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2005
    Messages:
    6,557
    Yes. And you're really no different:
    If this Ford Taurus was the sentient kind, I would understand if he hated THAT particular Taurus, sure.
    I'm comparing an animal to an animal. Likewise, I always found those "When Animals Attack" shows to be quite funny. They should just call it "When Animals Behave Like Animals."
    But what do you think of the numbers? One third pitbull, and half by Rotts. And keep in mind that pitbulls and rotts aren't the most common breeds of pets, which suggests their propensity to attack is even more disproportionate. You should give me some credit for keeping that last part in. Most people only post quotations that unequivocally support their position.
    Links, please.
    You do realize that you're just speculating here.
    I look forward to you providing real evidence to support this claim.
     
    #49
  50. Deuce

    Deuce Banned

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2004
    Messages:
    5,270
    Location:
    A not so parallel universe...
    Yes. And you're really no different:

    ^ No - I am speaking based on 4 decades of observation of various breeds of dogs, whereas you are invoking one specific incident, which seems to have resulted in your paranoia against a certain breed of dog.

    I'm comparing an animal to an animal. Likewise, I always found those "When Animals Attack" shows to be quite funny. They should just call it "When Animals Behave Like Animals."

    ^ So... you're saying that no distinction can be made between animals who have been domesticated for hundreds of years and animals from the wild?

    But what do you think of the numbers? One third pitbull, and half by Rotts. And keep in mind that pitbulls and rotts aren't the most common breeds of pets, which suggests their propensity to attack is even more disproportionate.

    ^ I've answered this already - as seen in my quotes below.

    You should give me some credit for keeping that last part in. Most people only post quotations that unequivocally support their position.

    ^ Fine - I give you credit.
    Links, please.

    You do realize that you're just speculating here.

    ^ Not at all - I am basing it on decades of personal observation. You'd have seen the same thing, had you bothered to open your eyes, and had you been able to find some objectivity on this issue.

    I look forward to you providing real evidence to support this claim.

    ^ You ask for "evidence" because you know that it is difficult, at best, to provide any for this type of thing. How is "an idiot", or a "young moron" defined? Do you honestly believe that statistics are kept on this type of thing? Of course you don't.
    This is simply your particular form of manipulation, designed to make yourself appear to be the 'winner'.
    I think little of your tactic.

    As stated earlier, my observation and experience has shown me that pit bulls and rottweillers are owned mostly by the "young moron" type, and that these types of people own more pit bulls and rottweillers than any other breed of dogs, and, quite likely, than all other breeds combined.
    And I firmly believe that those living with their eyes open will have observed the same thing.
    Kind of like seeing that more rich persons drive Ferraris than drive Chevy Cavaliers.
     
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2007
    #50

Share This Page