A Serve

Discussion in 'Tennis Tips/Instruction' started by Topspin Shot, Sep 19, 2013.

  1. Topspin Shot

    Topspin Shot Legend

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    Last edited: Sep 19, 2013
    #1
  2. Roger Wawrinka

    Roger Wawrinka Professional

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    I would move your toss to the right and into the court more. Other than that it looks pretty good.
     
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  3. cjs

    cjs Semi-Pro

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    Fast whippy uncomplicated action. I like it.

    Not sure if you are making contact with the ball with full extension though and perhaps losing a little bit of height. Your ball toss is taking your weight transfer a little more to your left rather than into the court than is ideal.

    Quality of video though is so poor that when I try to freeze frame it all I see is a blur of arms and legs.

    So how is the serve working for you in match play?
     
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  4. taurussable

    taurussable Professional

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  5. Lukhas

    Lukhas Legend

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    Dolgopolov called, he wants his serve back.

    More seriously, there's some good action going on there. However, I feel your momentum is forward instead of being upwards. Your left arm is low, your contact point doesn't seem as high as it could be, you seem to crouch. You have to throw your racquet upward towards the ball, not forward where you want to aim.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WlPVdppfYGs

    And get a better recording method. The quality of your video is too low.
     
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  6. Topspin Shot

    Topspin Shot Legend

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    Yeah, could get the toss in a better spot. In match play, my serve isn't a weakness but isn't a weapon either. And yes, the video quality is really bad. Oh, and tell Dolgo that if I ever do get my hands on his serve, I'm gonna keep it! :)
     
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2013
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  7. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    Nice heavy topspin serve, with a slice component. Can be used first or second, should go in often, nice strong effort.
     
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  8. cjs

    cjs Semi-Pro

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    With that whippy action you should be working towards getting lots of free points through accurate placement and disguise. I'd imagine its hard for the returner to read where its going.
     
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  9. Topspin Shot

    Topspin Shot Legend

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    I don't actually get too many free points though. For the most part, my opponents get the serves back, so I focus on serving them out wide and off the court to set up the point. I'll throw one up the T when I see them leaning.
     
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  10. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    Like Agassi, Connors, Hewitt, you will never get lots of unreturnable serves because you are hitting safe, spinny serves, NOT going for winners on flat first serves looking for lines and aces.
    Your serve might go close to 100, but all that spin slows the potential speed, and few players get more than 2 aces a set off a spinning serve only.
    Aces need to be set up. You need to hit your spinny serve for sure, but to both corners, have a flat heater 110+ to one of the lines, and throw them out of their timing with slower, different spinning serves.
    Repeating the same serve is great for you to groove, but it also grooves the opponent.
     
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  11. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

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    Be careful about developing back pain as you get older due to the fast and deep arch. You don't want to be having back surgery like Murray.
     
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  12. Tight Lines

    Tight Lines Semi-Pro

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    Hi Topspin shot,

    I hope Haverford is treating you well.

    As you know, your serve is a lot faster than mine. But, I do see one thing that you can improve upon.

    As others have noted, there is too much arch to your backside which can be a little dangerous. You should try to arch more to your right side IMO.

    One way to tell whether you are arching to the right is to have your right leg cross over your left leg so that your right foot is to the left of your left foot. Now, try to bend down with your legs. The only way to do it is if you bend your legs to the left, over the baseline. That will naturally get your upper body turned to the right for balance.

    Try it. You might get another 5 mph to your serve.

    Harry

    PS When you come home for a break, give me a call. I have gotten a lot better since the last time I played you.:)
     
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  13. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    Had to look at your serve again, since so many detractors have posted.
    It's fine. You have good knee bend, not excessive back arching. Toss location is fine for top/slice serves.
    Add a twist, add some pure flats, and your serve would be better than your overall game.....which is probably already pretty darn good.
     
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  14. psv255

    psv255 Professional

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    Nice serve man, fast rhythm, low toss. If you bring the toss up a slight bit and allow yourself time to start slow and build up speed to contact, you'll find yourself hitting more fluidly and with less apparent effort. It also brings up your contact point, giving you more room over the net, to a degree.

    Mine looks very similar, actually...whippy and forward-oriented.
     
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  15. taurussable

    taurussable Professional

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    [​IMG]

    is this bending forward because of the contraction of abs?
     
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  16. Topspin Shot

    Topspin Shot Legend

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    I have no idea! Actually, I think it might be a flaw in my motion since I don't see anyone else do it. Something to do with letting my upper body collapse too early.
     
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  17. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    That serve does use lots of ab crunch.
    Roddick used lots of ab crunch, it didn't hurt his serves.
    Most servers try to stop the effort before the ball goes upwards of their vision.
     
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  18. Topspin Shot

    Topspin Shot Legend

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    Interesting point. I never thought of it that way. I'll think I'll stick to the crunching motion, at least for now.
     
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  19. Topspin Shot

    Topspin Shot Legend

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  20. cjs

    cjs Semi-Pro

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    Thats a big grunt dude.

    I do like your service action but that serve isn't spinny enough to be called a kick serve.
     
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  21. tennis_balla

    tennis_balla Hall of Fame

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    I like the quick release, however your contact point could be slightly higher. If done right it shouldn't hinder your momentum and quick serve. The thing that concerns me is your arm isn't exactly extended at contact which could lead to elbow, back or shoulder problems down the road because of your fast racket head speed and the energy you put into the serve. It'll take the strain off your body and increase both control and power.
     
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  22. Topspin Shot

    Topspin Shot Legend

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    Great to see you here, balla. So how should I go about correcting this? Are there any drills/progressions I could do that would implement the correction? I don't want to try to correct it without a series of progressions or something like that and inadvisably make things worse. Also, how would I keep the topspin while straightening out my arm? I feel like straightening my arm would flatten out the serve.
     
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2013
    #22
  23. tennis_balla

    tennis_balla Hall of Fame

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    Topspin is generated by the angle of how your racket attacks the ball, not if its straight or bent. Even with topspin you'll want a fully extended arm towards the ball.
    No real complex progression, toss a bit higher and make contact higher. :)
     
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  24. Topspin Shot

    Topspin Shot Legend

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    Okay. I'll give it a go! Thanks!
     
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2013
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  25. Topspin Shot

    Topspin Shot Legend

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  26. tennis_balla

    tennis_balla Hall of Fame

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    Step in the right direction for sure. How does it feel? Watch out about being too off balance after your serve, against a good returner that will work against you in a big way.
     
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  27. Topspin Shot

    Topspin Shot Legend

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    It feels pretty good; there's more power there but I still don't feel like I have enough control over the amount of spin (but no worse than before). Can you be more specific about how I'm off balance and how to fix it without compromising the serve itself?
     
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  28. tennis_balla

    tennis_balla Hall of Fame

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    I take it back sorry regarding your balance. When I viewed it I thought I saw something but its just my imagination lol my bad
     
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  29. Topspin Shot

    Topspin Shot Legend

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    Okay then, thanks balla! Anything else you see?
     
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  30. tennis_balla

    tennis_balla Hall of Fame

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    Not particularly. Its a quick video, low frame rate but you've done a good job already with getting a straighter arm on contact. What are you looking at improving on your serve?
     
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  31. Topspin Shot

    Topspin Shot Legend

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    The disturbing lack of free points I get against a good returner. I feel like whenever I play someone below my level, I hold easily because they can't return my serve. But when I play someone at my level, it seems like every serve comes back deep, and I have a hard time holding. I have a pretty consistent ground game that keeps me in matches, but I feel like I need to start holding 70-75+% of the time to get to the next level. My hold percentage right now is about 65-70%.
     
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  32. boramiNYC

    boramiNYC Hall of Fame

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    two things you can think about. your head is bopping up and down too much. and your left heel is lifted already to the max and heel lift is not aiding in launching kinetic chain. with these in mind watch Fed slow mo.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wXkAK_iFBuQ
     
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  33. tennis_balla

    tennis_balla Hall of Fame

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    Are you serving the same speed all the time or do you vary your spins and speeds and placement? Also, what is your first serve in percentage? Thats a big one.
     
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  34. taurussable

    taurussable Professional

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    topspin shot, did you model your serve from someone or it evolved on its own naturally? Did you hire a coach before?
     
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  35. Topspin Shot

    Topspin Shot Legend

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    I think you've hit something. :) My first serve percentage is high, but only if I don't vary spins and speeds and placement. If I try to go for anything like that or even change the pace, my rhythm goes, and my first serve percentage dips below 50.

    And tarussable, I have received coaching, but a good portion of my serve is self-taught. I didn't model any pro in particular.
     
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  36. NLBwell

    NLBwell Legend

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    I'm agreeing with LeeD here. I like your serve motion.

    I also use my abs a great amount in my serve. The problem is being off-balance at the end of the service motion.

    Keep that serve as your basic serve. Learn a flat serve and a big kicking serve to go with it. You'll have opponents not knowing what to do.
     
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