Discussion in 'Tennis Tips/Instruction' started by yshengyi, Jan 11, 2010.
comments are welcome.
Technique is very clean (very much like 4.5) but overall it's hard to assess as he can probably hit harder and faster with stronger opponent.
The guy in black is solid even though the competition is poor. Nice backhand (better than 4.5), nice serve, and nice overall groundstrokes. I think his net play needs improvement. He needs to put away the volleys rather than 'rally' from the net.
It is tough to say until he is under pressure from a good player, but I think he is a 4.5 atleast. I normally see 5.0's with that Backhand.
Tough to tell. He gets to sit and set up for ever ball with all the time in the world. Looks solid though, footwork isn't really there but that could easily be from not being pressured at all. Needs a better partner
How does that guy hold serve at 4.5 with that weak serve? 4.5 guys I play would eat that crap up for breakfast.
You can tell the guy is NOT playing to top speed. He has lowered his racket head speed on most shots on purpose I suppose to play the weaker player appears to be a full 1.5 levels at least away from him.
agreed. need a vid hitting with Noveson. you up for it?
LOL,,,why is the other guy on the other side so SLOW ?? How can i judge this guy when the guy suck so bad ????????
Let me guess... he's really an ATP touring pro! :neutral:
Your friend might be correct - looks like a legit 4.5 to me..
I would venture to say he can play at 4.5. He's a lot better than the so-called 5.0 guy from Hawaii or wherever. Ha!
He would probably eat JollyRoger for breakfast.
Looks like he has the skills. The guy in white has the goofiest serve, and his volleys are just laughable.
this made me lol:twisted:
His game is almost an exact replica of mine.
Not even close to 4.5 rating. A lot of you are totally exaggerating his level (himself included).
Poor footwork and no extension during those volleys.
A more accurate rating would be close to a strong 2.5
Looks 4.0+ to me. I'm sure he's not even playing full strength. I love how his strokes are smooth, he takes his time and he has great composure as well. The guy across the net seems to use his arm too much and looks to be muscling the ball.
I can't really rate anyone more than a 4.0 unless they have official match records or at least a full length video of a matchplay...and even then it's hard to tell from just videos.
However, he is NOT a 2.5. Please share whatever it is that you're smoking, good sir?
Ha, he certainly is not a 2.5. Hard to tell where he stands since he is hitting against a weak player.
But I would say he is a no brainer 4.0 and most likely a 4.5 if we saw him play against a better player.
he is good. classic looking strokes.
looks like a legit 4.5 .... although even a 4.0 can look good when the other side is a total hack... but his strokes are all 4.5 caliber.
oh... wait, if that 'guy from hawaii' is 5.0, then this guy has to be 6.0 at least.
Does he play on the University of Hawaii varsity team ?
solid player, but alot of guys can brake down when opponents hitting deep hard shots...
Footwork needs some work but strokes looks solid. His balance is good, and very smooth mover.
I would believe him if his a 4.5!
Looks like solid 4.0+ strokes for sure.
Is that a facility in MN? It looks a lot like the Lifetime Fitness in Lakeville, MN.
Nice strokes. He looks like he could be a weak 4.5, it's tough to tell because he's not being pushed, but nice strokes.
One of the few NTRP video threads that wont turn into a flame war.
It's actually in Iowa City, IA.
Lifetime in MN has tennis courts????
Your friend is legit. Indeed, a 4.5 with beautiful strokes and timing(its not always the case with the other 4.5s). His oppenent might be alittle weak. But the guy in black is really solid and like the others said he hits it clean.
Very nice looking strokes and got a complete game. 4.5 is fair.
Oh and your friend plays with GREAT MARGIN. I like that. This is the way we all should play.
lol Yes, we're all conspiring to pick on you Bud. But you're safe this time. No way in hell they're ATP pros. ATP pros warming up serves have more penetration than their first serves.
The guy from Hawaii would destroy the guy in black the way he's playing in that video, no doubt about it. Groundstrokes would be about even (the 5.0 going for more consistent, high topspins and this "4.5" kid being the aggressor), but the serves and volleys are on completely different levels.
Okay... Now this is either a brutal joke or a terrible sense of what's going on. Even the "bad" player is better than a 2.5. lol
The guy in black is playing roughly on a 4.0 level in the video the OP posted. The other guy is a 3.5-4.0 even if he doesn't look like it. He can get balls back pretty well, though they have very little on it. But these are all highlights, so the errors are all cut out as well, so they can be maybe 0.5 NTRP lower than what we think.
I really think this kid is a strong 4.0 max. I feel he was trying harder than you all think. We need a video of him playing equal competition and trying to be totally sure. I think real 4.5s could do better using less effort than he did (or at least make it look that way). The things I'm looking for are to force errors off short balls or solid approach shots that force weak replies, a solid return of serve (taking it on the rise regardless of speed, spin, or penetration), a pretty solid all court game (which to a certain degree he has), solid serve (spin, good placement, some pace, good penetration), ability to play solid defense, consistency, and depth.
He's consistent, plays deep sometimes, can hit approach shots, and has a solid all court game in the works (not quite there yet). The rest either he wasn't trying enough to do or he simply can't do it. So we need to see some real matchplay to confirm it. Also, 3-4 games nonstop would be nice. The three biggest things I want to see from him are his serve, return, and mid-court game.
I'm going to say solid or strong 4.0 for now. If any new clips come up I could bump it up to a solid 4.5.
I'm not from the States, but he's sort of what I imagined a 4.x would look like.
The other guy doesn't pressure him at all though, so all of that "flowing" technique could break down with some better placement / depth from the other side (I know my strokes tend to do that sometimes). He's playing "conservative" and "with margin" because he has the time to prepare as much as he wants due to what's coming from the other side of the net.
He looks a bit like me in the stroke production but I probably can crack the serve a bit harder due to being taller than he is.
With regards to the comments made on the "5.0 from Hawaii" (assuming he's the guy with the snow shoe racket from the other "rate these guys" thread with pro Canadian players filmed)... I would think guys who are making those comments are a bit harsh.
I'll agree that this guy is "better looking", and the Hawaii guy wasn't all that orthodox or elegant with his technique, but there was a certain "alertness" in his movement, a certain attitude/opportunism/reading of the game, and certainly some good put away volleys that would make me think that guy is tougher to play against than most people think.
My 2 pence worth ...
pretty sure we can all agree this guy is good, hits clean and is taking this way easy. I think we can also agree that his volleys aren't crash hot so he isnt an extremely high level player.
^ One can be an extremely high level player without playing any volleys, ever (at least in theory ).
I agree. The guy in black clothing seems like a legit 4.5. Solid footwork, clean strokes, good depth, placement, spin, and pace. I know videos can be deceiving, but this one seems pretty clear cut to me.
Some of them do - the Lakeville facility actually looks a lot like the facility in the video. I'm not a member, so I only play there for tourneys and league stuff, never casually.
Jrod is correct.
This asian player would provide me with very challenging competition.
He's easily 4.0+ and i'd say he's even holding back a little.
I've no problem handing out 4.5 star.
Sweet 1hbh, wish it was mine. :\
I'd agree with ballpark 4.x - based purely upon this tiny fragment of his play, which I think we all could agree isn't really the way to rate someone.
I can't tell if he's going all out, or holding back (i presume some). Decent FH and BH stroke technique. Net game doesn't look too strong. IMO can't be much higher than low end of 4.5 range based upon net play.
Many players, particularly strong players adapt their games and dynamically throttle up or down to do what they can to win against opponents. That doesn't always translate into playing aggressive all the time which many 2.5x to 4.0 players presume that strong (IMO 4.5+) players always do. This is another aspect that makes ratings based solely off videos of questionable merit.
I can't tell if he's legitimately playing against the other guy as in a competitive match (which IMO speaks to mid to high 4.0 range), or just being nice to hit with them (which IMO would speak to low 4.5 range).
He's being nice.
You can tell he hits directly at other guys forehand, maybe increasing the pace after a couple of shots.
He's just feeding balls to the background guy.
As for 4.0 or 4.5, tough one there. Depends on area. He can certainly play 4.5, but can he go 4 rounds consistently?
Some 4.5's are closer to 5.5's, while others rely on mental strength, consistency, and wearing the other guy down.
Here is a video of him playing with a better opponent: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PeoY5_NFy_s
It seems like this is from half a year ago judging from the post date. If so he had made some good progress.
I assume that during a drilling session he would be working on his game and not just hitting balls back to the player on the other side of the net. So based on that I would say he is closer to a 4.0 he lacks a good shoulder turn on his backhand and pace on his forehand.
Yeah, that second vid taken maybe 6 months ago seems to expose quite a few flaws in his hitting.
That one overhead looks particularly bad.
Good groundies, good enough to be 4.5, not backed up by volleys or serves of any significance.
Let's see more half volleys and hitting on the rise. The latter looks atrocious from the few we've seen.
i would call the guy he's playing a 3.5, his strokes look too good to be a 3
The 1st video was so much better, but I'm guessing that's because he actually improved his game.
Just out of curiosity, how do you think this guy would do against JollyRoger.
Speculation is worth less than zero, as usual, but so are my responses.
I'd bet Jolly's superior service and power, added with quicker footspeed, would really rattle this guy.
This guy would maybe try to out consistent Jolly, something I see not happenning.
Oh. Are you referring to that thread someone made about a 4.0 volleying better than Soderling?
I wouldn't say his strokes look good... But what comes off the racket as well as his ability to cover the court and get balls back is way too good for a 3.0.
Hmmm... When you mention service power, if Jolly can keep his first serves at a solid percentage, he won't get broken. And this "4.5" will have all of his second serves pounded (whether they go in or not I won't even guess at). So I think it'll just be Jolly waiting to string along 4 good points to get a break. But it really comes down to first serve percentage. But I still think Jolly has the slight edge.
Could you provide a link of Jolly's video?
I ain't falling into THAT trap, again :-D
link is in his sig.
some of you guys are really too fixated on jolly and his game.. sure he has made some comments in the past, but making bets, monitoring his win/loss record in comp, pitting his skills against others on this board.. dont think this really happens to anyone else on this board
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