about POG History / different versions

Discussion in 'Racquets' started by MichaelChang, Oct 25, 2007.

  1. MichaelChang

    MichaelChang Hall of Fame

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    Could someone please share some light on the history of POG?
    I have seen people saying "4 stripe", "1 stripe", "110", "oversize", "recent from TW" as different versions. also, I tried "search" but were not able to find the definition of these different versions, except I know the "recent TW" means the ones selling on TW.
    Thanks!!
     
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  2. RoarTT

    RoarTT Rookie

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    i would like the same. Great thread chang!
     
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  3. TheShaun

    TheShaun Hall of Fame

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    yes, have the head sizes changed over the years or have they always been the same as what TW sells?
     
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  4. The Watchman

    The Watchman Rookie

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    They've always been the same - the oversize was released as a 110, but that was measured using the outside of the frame. Using the inside of the frame, it's 107. Same for the midsize (95 remeasured as 93).

    I believe the very early ones came without a bumper guard. The others (which includes 4 stripes, 'straight shaft', 'tour'/recent TW) are meant to be the same, but some folks say they've got more head heavy over time.

    I've got 8 of the 'tour' version, and they hit pretty good.
     
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  5. MichaelChang

    MichaelChang Hall of Fame

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    thank you very much. what exactly does "stripe" mean here? I mean how to tell that one is a "4-stripe" by looking at the racket?
     
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  6. tenniko

    tenniko Semi-Pro

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    It's the green line that goes on the frame.
     
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  7. MichaelChang

    MichaelChang Hall of Fame

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    Thanks Tenniko.
     
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  8. Klatu Verata Necktie

    Klatu Verata Necktie Hall of Fame

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    Are you sure about the 110? I have a POG Series 110, and when I compare the size of the frame to my Donnay Pro One Oversize, the Donnay is noticeably larger.
     
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  9. mrw

    mrw Semi-Pro

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    Great handle Klatu ;)
     
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  10. desilvam

    desilvam Rookie

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    POG History

    I did a bit of research on this and this is what little I know or believe so far .

    1) Prince website says that the POG was first introduced in 1980. This is the one that had the 1 green stripe, and the words PRINCE & TOUR on the frame.
    I do not know if this 1980 model had a bumper guard. I have seen POG without bumpers on the big auction site. I assume that the earliest version (i.e. 1980) would be the one without the bumper.

    2) I have 2 of the POG OS 1987 model. This one has 4 stripes. On the side of the frame it says 'Graphite 110' . The word TOUR is NOT on the frame. It has 4 PRINCE's printed on the frame near the throat. The crossbeam stabilizer has GRAPHITE written on it. It has a bumper guard. The recommended String tension is 60-75 lbs. The current frames being sold have a lower recommended tension range.

    3) I believe that the current production and sale of POG is based on the original 1980 model with the single Green Stripe and word TOUR on the frame. This is the same one sold on TW. These ones have bumper guards on them.

    4) There are only 2 sizes made, the OS (107) and the mid (93)

    5) The specs for the OS and mid have not changed much since 1980, and are as follows:
    size: 107 for OS, 93 for mid
    Stiffness: 63 for OS, 66 for mid
    Composition: 100% Graphite
    Cross Section: 19mm head/19mm shaft
    Weight: 11.6oz/330oz unstrung, 12.2oz strung for both
    Balance: 5 pt headlight for OS, 8 pt headlight for mid.
    Power Level: 700 for OS, 600 for mid
    String Pattern: 16x19 for OS, 14x18 for mid
    Tension 57-67 for OS, 53-63 for mid
    Tension range recommendation has changed from 60-75 for 1987 POG OS.

    Feel free to add or correct any incorrect information above :)
     
    #10
  11. MichaelChang

    MichaelChang Hall of Fame

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    Thanks Desilvam. I have learnt a lot from the posts here.
     
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  12. tandayu

    tandayu Professional

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    There are at least 2 or 3 molds on POG over its production life.

    1) The real original one was POG made in USA, tear drop shead hape, shorter handle, no grommet

    2) THen same as #1, but with individual grommet on each hole, then

    3) New mold, more rounded head shape , bumper guard, longer grip handle, fairway leather

    4) then it getting worse afterward ..........

    There was a complete explanation by a knowledgeble guy from Japan on this forum a while back, can't remember his name
     
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  13. MichaelChang

    MichaelChang Hall of Fame

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    ahh, does it still worth to buy the ones (such as the MID) from TW? how bad has it getting? (like the PS 85 china compare to s.v.?)
     
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  14. tandayu

    tandayu Professional

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    It is a matter of personal preference. The original one sold for $200 or more back then (I know several friends bought in different countries, it was too expensive back in the 70s). Today at my local store, the reproduction sold for $99

    You can demo from TW, and maybe ok for you or maybe not
     
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  15. Klatu Verata Necktie

    Klatu Verata Necktie Hall of Fame

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    I appreciate it, mrw :)
     
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  16. iTennis

    iTennis Rookie

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    Here's what in my book (done some research about 6 months ago before acquiring two 4-stripe OS's)....


    Origimal (first gen) POG (Late 70's to late 80's):

    Single green stripe around the frame, green 'Prince' and 'Graphite' printed on the throat faces (i.e. up/ down), cork filled, shorter grip/ stabilizer bar closer to grip than later models, 3 versions; the original w/ no grommets, then individual grommets, then molded 1-pc grommet, older one has egg-shaped hoop, later became more oval, heaviest of all around mid-12oz, earlier model made in USA, later in Taiwan.

    2nd gen POG (late 80's to mid-90's?):

    4 green stripes around the frame, 'Prince' in gold printed (4) on the throat, 'Patented 1987' also printed, longer grip than original, foam filled frame, weight just around 12oz strung at about 6-pt head light (strung) balance (at least two of my OS sticks), 2 versions; one printed '110' or '95' printed on hoop top and 'Graphite Series 110' or Graphite Series 95' on one side of the throat, later one with 'Oversize' or 'Midplus' on hoop top and 'Graphite Oversize' or 'Graphite Midplus' on both sides of the throat (I have one each of the OS), 'Oversize' or 'Midplus' version frame bit less stiffer (my own experience), made in Taiwan.

    3rd gen POG (late 90's? to current):

    One green stripe/ one gold stripe around the frame, two versions; 'Prince' and 'Straight Shaft' on the throat, most current with 'Prince' and 'Tour' printed, bit more top-heavy and stiffer frame than gen 2 (at least OS), made in China.


    I'm not a racquet historian or old enough to know about POG from back then...and would appreciate fellow POGers to further provide accurate info.
     
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  17. Klatu Verata Necktie

    Klatu Verata Necktie Hall of Fame

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    Is there a difference between the oversize and the Series 110?
     
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  18. PBODY99

    PBODY99 Hall of Fame

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    No, the oversize is the series 110. I'm not sure about the cork in the frame on the earliest models, as I remember it was a foam, which wasn't uncommon for frames of the early 1970's. {I didn't start saving broken frames until the early1990's}

    The frame you like is the one you should play with.
    Most people forget that there was a Prince Graphite II ( 20% fiberglass) introduced at the same time & at a lower price than the all graphite model . Demand was so great for the 100% model that they quickly stopped selling the 80/20 version as they used the same molds.
     
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  19. superstition

    superstition Hall of Fame

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    There should be a POG FAQ on this site, as well as a review, since there are an endless number of repetitive topics about this racquet. I have heard that the first version had cork inside.
     
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  20. iTennis

    iTennis Rookie

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    Sorry... for Gen 2, it is '90' not '95' printed for the mid/ midplus sticks....

    I read people talking about cork deterioration, etc. on this web....so I assumed it was used in fact. No I have not seen it personally inside the frame. Also I thought that is why Gen 1 (early) sticks are heavier, even with thinner frame, shorter grip and no grommets.
     
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  21. MichaelChang

    MichaelChang Hall of Fame

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    thanks iTennis.

    and yeah, I definitely think there should be a POG faq link. however wasn't able to find it in "search". sorry for asking the same question over.
     
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  22. Putt4Dough

    Putt4Dough New User

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    Does anyone know when the POG Longbody (LB) was introduced? Did Prince ever make a 4-stripe POG LB?

    I think to make this thread even more informative, we should try to post pics of the different POGs. I have a 4-Stripe Mid and OS which I will take pictures of in the next couple of days and post. In the meanwhile, here's the stock picture of a new POG LB from TW's site:

    [​IMG]
     
    #22
  23. MichaelChang

    MichaelChang Hall of Fame

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    I'd like to know the answer to this as well, thanks!
     
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  24. crvlvr

    crvlvr New User

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    i just received a used 110 today and noticed that the racquet head is narrower (more oval) than the oversize (more round). Both are 4 stripers. Is that part of the design, or one of them has gotten deformed over the years ?
     
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  25. vince916

    vince916 Semi-Pro

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    Most people on this board favor the 4 stripe version. Thats the one I use as well.
     
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  26. Yonex.

    Yonex. Semi-Pro

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    I don't get it....You said that the early POG had 60-75 tension range, you also said that nothing has changed of the racquet till now. Then why isn't the tension range the same as before? maybe since back then everyone used natural gut? And now we use Polyester or something? Can someone answer this question for me? Thanks!
     
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  27. Klatu Verata Necktie

    Klatu Verata Necktie Hall of Fame

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    That's probably one of the reasons. Another may be that manufacturers reduce the suggested string tension to prevent possible frame damage.
     
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  28. Yonex.

    Yonex. Semi-Pro

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    yep. anyone else? I would really want to string my racquet over 65 with synthetic gut.
     
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  29. Klatu Verata Necktie

    Klatu Verata Necktie Hall of Fame

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    65 lbs shouldn't be a problem with either the Oversize or the Mid. It may feel a bit stiff in the Mid, but the frame can certainly handle the tension.
     
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  30. LPShanet

    LPShanet Banned

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    I still have a couple of the very first generation of midsize Prince Graphites (single stripe, no "Tour" on frame) lying around. It came out in 1984 and was called the Series 90 (not 93 or 95), and was marketed as being 90 square inches. While there were grommetless and individual grommeted versions of the original oversize (110), the mid's first version already had a grommet strip with integrated bumper guard. I'm sure this was the first version, as I was sponsored by Prince at the time, and got them before they hit the market later that year.
     
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  31. tandayu

    tandayu Professional

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    How the buttcap looks like and how is the end of the string channel (round or square)?
     
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  32. LPShanet

    LPShanet Banned

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    The buttcap is solid black with the "P" cut out of it, almost like a stencil. In the hole created by the cutout is a yellowish plasticized sticker with tiny "Princes" written all over.

    Not sure I'm understanding the second question, but if you mean where the grommet channel ends at the throat, it's square, but the grommet strip is rounded, so it overhangs a mm or two.

    I should mention that since my racquets were sent to me at the beginning of (or maybe even prior to) the first main production run, small details such as the butt cap may not be what was stock at retail, though I suspect they are the same.
     
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  33. tandayu

    tandayu Professional

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    Thank you. I have one like your description, but I also saw one of later batch (also single green stripe) which the "P" on buttcap is protruding, and the end of the grommet channel is round. The paint quality of the later batch is pale.

    You have one rare items, a sponsored POG MP of the earliest version.
     
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  34. Dunlop300

    Dunlop300 New User

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    I too have a couple of the 1984 Series 90 POGs lying around. I attended university between 82-86 and many of my friends on the tennis team were sponsored by Prince and to make extra cash would sell these frames to hackers like myself. Great racquet after playing HS tennis with a Red Head.
     
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  35. iTennis

    iTennis Rookie

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    My '110' and Oversize' versions of 4-stripers have exactly the same head-shape. I know single stripers have tear-drop-shaped head, so maybe your 110 it the earlier version, whose head shape is the same as single striper?
     
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  36. AceofBase

    AceofBase Rookie

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    Hey you guy forgot about the Prince Triple Threat Graphite one which is the last generation of the Graphite series. Go check this one out and you'll love it for sure as for collection or hitting with it.
     
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  37. LPShanet

    LPShanet Banned

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    Not sure what use that will serve me, but it's nice to know that I'm in an exclusive club:)
     
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  38. tandayu

    tandayu Professional

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    The Prince TT Graphite and TT Warrior was sold for $29.99 for long time at my local store.

    I am not saying they are bad frames, but maybe not known to the general population
     
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  39. ccelis

    ccelis Rookie

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    Hi, just wondering if you notice any difference in play and feel between the "110" and "oversize"? I have heard that is labled "Oversize" is slightly stiffer ? Also, is one more Headlight?

    Thanks
     
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  40. iTennis

    iTennis Rookie

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    Not really, especially once I matched weight and balance exactly. I recall seeing another old post here saying 'Oversize' is bit more flexier, though.... In stock form my '110' was 5g heavier and slightly more head-heavy. But the difference between the two is very minor enought not to worry about..... could be just within mfr tolerance.
     
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  41. superstition

    superstition Hall of Fame

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    Does anyone have a photo of the tear drop shaped version?
     
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  42. MichaelChang

    MichaelChang Hall of Fame

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    somehow, I just saw a 4-stripe POS OS, with "Oversize" on top of the frame. and the recommended string tension is 50-60 lb, 23-27kg. why so low? a bad paint quality control or what...
     
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  43. Putt4Dough

    Putt4Dough New User

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    The POG on the left is a Single Stripe POG which is more of a tear drop. The POG on the right is a 4-Stripe POG which is more round. Hope that helps ...

    [​IMG]
     
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  44. superstition

    superstition Hall of Fame

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    Ah, from that photo I see Howard Head's influence on the old version of the Prince Graphite. That head shape is a Head head shape. It looks like the Head Classic Tour racquet I own. The other shape looks like a standard Prince shape.

    Maybe people will stop calling these racquets (except for the actual original model) Prince "Original" Graphite? They're clearly not the same.
     
    #44
  45. g9clem

    g9clem New User

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    I see lot of post for different versions of POG but none talk about the Longbody Michael Chang model. I have a Longbody Michael Chang OS model and used it primarly as my goto weapon when I was younger. However, I don't remember the specs for it and don't seem to be able to find it anywhere online. I can only find the spec for other longbody versions of Prince Graphite but not the Michael Chang version. Any POG guru out there know?
     
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  46. haerdalis

    haerdalis Hall of Fame

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    From racquet finder:
    Prince graphite tour os
    sw 327
    weight 345
    balance 32.25
    flex 66

    Prince graphite classic OS
    sw 335
    weight 348
    balance 30.8
    flex 62

    The classic os seems like a dream frame to me. I wish I knew which one that was.
    I am hoping the avery m5 will play like that.
     
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  47. string70

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    #47
  48. Nastase

    Nastase Rookie

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    Question please someone answer. Is the weight and balance of the "Straight Shaft" version the same or dfferent than the current TW "Tour" version?

    Also....If I recall correctly Prince very briefly made a super oversize POG 125 sq inches way back when graphics were all green.
     
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  49. MichaelChang

    MichaelChang Hall of Fame

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    Thanks for the pictures link.
    I have 2 POG Midplus, that one says Made in China, and the other doesn't say where it was made, both are 4-stripes.

    And yes, I think POG had a 125 sq head size. "large head" called?
     
    #49
  50. bluetrain4

    bluetrain4 Legend

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    I know POG devotees tend to (at least it appears that way) not like the current TW version. But, I really love it, even though it is less headlight and has a higher swingweight.

    Then again, I really have no point of comparison since I didn't play with the earlier version.

    Any other takers for the current TW version?
     
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