Ad player vs Duce player

Discussion in 'Adult League & Tournament Talk' started by tnnisfan, Sep 29, 2012.

  1. floridatennisdude

    floridatennisdude Hall of Fame

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    You mean that after all these years of trying to ingrain this in my brain, I can now do it. Sweet!
     
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  2. McLovin

    McLovin Hall of Fame

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    Late to this discussion, but it is intriguing as I spoke with my 'possible' doubles partner for our tri-level team last night about this. We're both 4.5s, but he smacks the ball much harder than I do (imagine the pairing of del Potro & Ferrer).

    We can both return well from both sides, but my ad return is pretty much automatic, no matter the serve. I feel that this gives him the ability to 'swing away' at his return, knowing 90% of the time, I will give us a good opportunity to win the point on my side.

    Of course, it helps that (1) he's solid at the net, and (2) is 6' 4" and has the wingspan of a pterodactyl, but still, it is my feeling that having the solid returner on the ad side *can* free up the other person mentally, allowing them to take a crack at the ball with minimal negative effect. You just need to let them know you are OK w/ them taking a crack at it.

    "No worries, I'll give you another shot"...
     
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2012
    #52
  3. Cindysphinx

    Cindysphinx G.O.A.T.

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    This.

    It is very demoralizing to play the ad court with someone who has no BH volley/BH overhead in the deuce court. They will spend the whole match terrified to poach with their BH. Sometimes they will even start the match by declaring that they won't poach to their BH.

    Return of serve is an important shot, but it's a long day at the office when you get no help at net. I like to play my BH volley, so deuce court is a good fit for me.
     
    #53
  4. tennis tom

    tennis tom Hall of Fame

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    Well, you should be able to. Where is your BH breaking down? If you've followed my instructions on the grip and footwork it should be working for you--have you hit a million balls as you've been told to do? Maybe it's your swing technique? Are you using a proper loop or are you listening to an ignorant pro and getting your "racket back"? Are you familiar with the concept of LTR, (length, tension, ratio?). Post up a video and maybe we can discover the missing link to your hitting a proper BH.
     
    #54
  5. LuckyR

    LuckyR Legend

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    Assuming that both partners are right handed, then the decision should be based on whether the team wants to maximize the strength of one player (perhaps the "better" player, whatever that is...) or minimize the weakness of the other player (perhaps the "lesser" player, see above).

    Obviously if you can accomplish both at the same time, no discussion necessary, just do it (tm).

    The discussion happens when you have to choose between them and it is not predictable which will lead to a better outcome.
     
    #55
  6. floridatennisdude

    floridatennisdude Hall of Fame

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    Sorry, thought you understood what I was getting at. I fully understand how to hit a good backhand. Zero of what you've stated I didn't know.

    The issue I have is doing it perfect, at match speed, ad nauseum. I could spend the next ten years doing BH work and would get a negligible result.

    Even Fed's BH breaks down on him and I am nowhere near as skilled or fit as him. In fact, laziness is probably my simple issue.
     
    #56
  7. TonyB

    TonyB Hall of Fame

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    Fed's BH return is actually very good for a one-hander. His slice BH return is extremely consistent and he gets the ball deep near the baseline almost every time.

    However, since we're basically talking about doubles here, try this as a hint: Wait for the service return holding your BH grip, choked up slightly (maybe 1 inch), with your body rotated slightly towards the backhand side as if you are expecting a backhand return. If the ball comes to your FH, you have to change grips, but that's the price you pay for anticipating the BH return.

    If you're not waiting for the BH return, you're really at a disadvantage, especially if you have a one-hander. Give it a try.
     
    #57
  8. tennis tom

    tennis tom Hall of Fame

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    My apologies, I will brush-up on my mind-reading. Please disregard the $5,000.00 invoice I mailed you for online instruction. Maybe try hypnosis.
     
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  9. floridatennisdude

    floridatennisdude Hall of Fame

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    Hmmm, I do everything except choke up an inch. What's the theory on that? Gain a little control in exchange for a loss of reach?
     
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  10. tennis tom

    tennis tom Hall of Fame

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    I'm glad to see there's something you DON'T know about the BH, I'll stop bowing now.
     
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  11. TonyB

    TonyB Hall of Fame

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    Reduces the effective swingweight and allows you to swing a bit faster, often with a bit more power. Give it a try.
     
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  12. Mongolmike

    Mongolmike Professional

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    Sorry to butt in, but that sounds like good, practical advice. My one hand BH return is decent, but any advantage is good advice. Thanks.
     
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  13. floridatennisdude

    floridatennisdude Hall of Fame

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    Nice, ill give it a whirl.
     
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  14. TonyB

    TonyB Hall of Fame

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    Yeah, unfortunately I had to figure it out for myself. I realized that it was tougher to find the proper BH grip on such short notice during the return, but it was easier to find the proper FH grip, so I just started waiting with a full BH grip all the time. My returns dramatically improved. But now, I tend to try to "pick" my opponents serve a bit more, so sometimes I wait with a FH grip. If the ball comes to my BH, then I generally decide to slice it back, as it's easier for me to find a continental grip on my BH in a pinch. Besides, as a deuce-court player, sometimes I slice a lob down the line for a return in doubles, which puts pressure on a right-handed server, as he has to backpedal into the corner of the ad side to retrieve the lob. So it actually works out in my favor most of the time.

    Anyway, it's helpful to be prepared with a BH grip before actually receiving the serve to save time on the grip change, especially if you're a one-hander. It helps to anticipate the BH return. Expect it. You'll be much better off.
     
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  15. Vcore89

    Vcore89 Hall of Fame

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    Anticipating with a Rgoer-like BH grip doesn't need a change of grip to a forehand grip if one executes a Roddick-kind-of ''biceps curl'' forehand.:wink:
     
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  16. floridatennisdude

    floridatennisdude Hall of Fame

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    Finally ran up against an opponent this morning with a big enough 1st serve to try this. Felt like I could time it better, but a little tricky to generate pace and drive the ball. I think I can work with it though and figure it out. Thanks!
     
    #66
  17. chatt_town

    chatt_town Hall of Fame

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    I agree with the coach that won the arguement. This is why. I was a 3.5 and was playing a 4.5 doubles tourney with a guy in fla. I was just learning how to hit through my backhand. So me and the guy(who was clearly the stronger player) agreed that I would return better from the ad side(cross court) with my backhand as opposed to trying to hit it inside out from the deuce court. The thing is this though. I also knew how to be smart returning from the ad side. So that helped us and we won the tourney. Guys tried to serve to my backhand but you couldn't tell I was a 3.5 the way I returned that day. They both had pretty good serves but if it kicked up too high...I just lobbed it back into play giving us a chance. So the other girl may not be as strong of a player all around but the bottom line is this. As long as you are getting points on your side(deuce) then they can still never win the game. If she can't return well....then she should be on the deuce side, but if you are both 4.5 then I would think she can't be garbage. So i don't know that it really matters at that level which side you all play. I would play to the strength of the return and not persay the strength of the player. I'm clearly a stronger player than my wife but she plays the ad side a lot because she can get on top of the kick serves with her two hander as opposed to me with a one hand backhand. When we play teams where the guy's serve is no threat then I play the ad side. So I think it can vary from match to match depending on who you play.




     
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  18. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    Lots of players choke up the grip a bit for return of serves. Often, it's more important to just get your racket on the ball than it is to hit that perfect groundstroke return of serve, and percentage play favors getting the ball back over textbook form strokes.
    Now if you face only powder puff serves, keep stroking from the butt.
    Against hard serves, it's often just as important to defend your body as much as reach out wide.
     
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