Adding even more weight to a 12.8oz racquet?

Discussion in 'Racquets' started by The Meat, Mar 5, 2013.

  1. The Meat

    The Meat Hall of Fame

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    For the past 5 years I've used the 6.1 tour and then switched to my Prokennex at 12.8oz strung. I've gotten so used to swinging at this weight that now I think it's too light, I'm thinking of bumping it up to the low 13 oz. weight range. I already have a fast swing speed at 12.8oz, almost as fast as most people who swing fast with a 11 oz. racquet. I really feel like I need to bump up the weight so I can swing normally again, not too fast.

    Any suggestions? Keep it the same or add some more lead?
     
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  2. S&V Specialist

    S&V Specialist Rookie

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    What's your current swingweight and what is your desired swingweight?
     
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  3. The Meat

    The Meat Hall of Fame

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    I hate calculating and referring to swing weight as a way to explain what a racquet swings like. It's 12.8 oz, 12pts headlight, that's all I cared to know about my specs. It's similar in feeling to a stock strung 6.1 tour.

    I don't really want to change the balance, just the weight so I can slow down my fast swing. At this point I feel like the racquet is too light, I get the feeling that I'm swinging an 11oz. racquet.

    I've thought of adding blue tac under the guard and inside the handle, but I'm not quite sure how much a stick weighs.
     
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2013
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  4. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    Just slowly add lead to the 12 position.
    At 12 pts. headlight, it must have a SW of only 315 or so, about the same as most 10 oz rackets.
     
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  5. The Meat

    The Meat Hall of Fame

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    I really like the balance of my racquet as it is now, I just want to make it swing heavier. Would an increase of .5 oz make it swing heavier?
     
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  6. S&V Specialist

    S&V Specialist Rookie

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    Only slightly, so long as you keep the balance the same.
     
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  7. The Meat

    The Meat Hall of Fame

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    Do you think at some point in weight that being too head light as it is now, might make the racquet feel awful on the wrist?
     
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  8. S&V Specialist

    S&V Specialist Rookie

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    I wouldn't think so, but I'm not sure since I usually keep my racquets right around even balance.
     
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  9. UCSF2012

    UCSF2012 Hall of Fame

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    You learn to adjust and move on. Takes a couple hitting sessions, but it'll come.

    It's a pointless endeavor to find what you've been used to. It'll never be the same. You'll always find something different. Overtime, different can be better.
     
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  10. cork_screw

    cork_screw Hall of Fame

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    Does your dick get longer when you add more weight to your racquet? Or does it just make you feel that way?
     
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  11. The Meat

    The Meat Hall of Fame

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    I'm not saying that I'm stronger than anybody who uses 11oz racquets, only that I don't like how I can swing my racquet fast like I could with an 11oz racquet. I like a more hefty slower swing.
     
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  12. kpvols

    kpvols New User

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    honestly these people are telling you what you need to know/hear but you are refusing to listen or have no clue what swingweight actually is to pay attention to what they're saying.
     
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  13. The Meat

    The Meat Hall of Fame

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    No I'm listening to any suggestions, but I don't want to change my balance. I've already gotten my info from the poster who said that evenly added weight will make it swing a little more heavier.
     
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  14. tlm

    tlm Legend

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    This is a common occurrence on this site. The racket should weigh at least 13.7 ounces with a swingweight of 370 and up with a minimum of 4 3/4 grip. Now you have a certified macho man talk tennis racket, anything less is a wimp stick.
     
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  15. Larrysümmers

    Larrysümmers Hall of Fame

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    how as it effected your game? has it being too light hurt you?
     
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  16. Stroke

    Stroke Rookie

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    If you simply add about 3 oz to the 12 position, and 3 oz to the lower handle, the racquet will swing heavier and the balance will remain unchanged.
     
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  17. fuzz nation

    fuzz nation Legend

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    Not in my experience - I think this would only be the case if we gripped our racquets on their throats (near their mid points). If I add a little 3&9 o'clock lead to the hoop of a racquet, I'll also need to add perhaps twice that amount under my grip to get the balance back to where it was before the tuning started.

    Just my experience.
     
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  18. PKfan1

    PKfan1 Semi-Pro

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    Its simple math 3 gr @ 12 would be counterbalanced by 3 at the butt. Your SW will have increased, but the balance would be the same. What you perceive at the balance being off is just the increase in mass at the tip of the racquet increasing sw while leaving the balance unchanged. Which is what meat is looking to do.
     
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  19. spaceman_spiff

    spaceman_spiff Hall of Fame

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    Keep in mind that 20 years ago the Wilson Profile 2.7 OS was considered a granny stick.

    Racquet Name: Wilson Profile 2.7 Oversize
    Head Size: 110 sq. in. / 710 sq. cm.
    Length: 27.00 inches / 68.58 cm
    Strung Weight: 13.20 oz / 374 g
    Balance: 6pts HL
    Swing Weight: 356
    Stiffness: 74
    String Pattern: 16 Mains/20 Crosses


    That's right, 20 years ago, 60- and 70-year olds were wielding 13+ oz sticks with swingweights over 350.
     
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  20. fuzz nation

    fuzz nation Legend

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    I think that if you know what you like in terms of balance, then you're probably onto something. Among the many racquets I've owned or sampled over the years, I find the most familiar handling and swing behavior in a racquet with the "right" balance - but that means the right balance for me. That same degree of "rightness" may occur in two frames where one weighs 11.8 oz with 7-8 pts. HL balance, while another weighs 13.4 oz. with 11 pts. HL balance.

    The good news is that just a little 3&9 o'clock lead can make the hoop of a racquet significantly more stable and "heavy". My old ProStaff 6.1 Classics weigh about 12.8 oz and balance at 10 pts. HL in their stock layout. If you've got 12 pts. HL balance with the same heft in your frame, that may actually be a little twitchy (too HL).

    Some mild tuning ought to add a little of that extra heaviness that you want and you don't need to worry about the experiment. If it feels wrong, you can just peel the stuff off. If it doesn't quite work, just add a little more. The weight of a racquet isn't necessarily excessive as long as its balance gives you the maneuvering you want along with that stability you prefer. I can't function around the net without at least a 12.3-12.5 oz. frame, but I also need 9-10 pts. HL balance with that racquet. That's just me.

    Carry on!
     
    #20
  21. The Meat

    The Meat Hall of Fame

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    It just doesn't feel like there's any plowthrough any more, I like the feeling my racquet hitting the ball and its weight helping me generate pace. If I do bump it up to the 13oz range and can still swing as fast, I might go even higher.
     
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  22. fuzz nation

    fuzz nation Legend

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    I read you.

    I think what I'm describing has a little more to do with voodoo than pure physics. As I make a racquet heavier by leading the hoop, I usually also need to make it more head-light in order to preserve its handling personality. That means that lead out on the hoop (farther from my hand) needs to be counterbalanced with more lead under my grip (essentially under my hand).

    Btw, wouldn't the simple math here only work if I placed the 3 grams at equal distances from the balance point? If I place it at 12 o'clock and at the butt cap, I think the math only works if the racquet had even balance to start with. No physics wiz am I, but I think that the further the lead is placed from the balance point, the more it alters the racquet's balance.
     
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  23. Fuji

    Fuji Legend

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    All I would do is add lead in the throat at the V. It really shouldn't change the balance or SW much at all, it will just make it heavier.

    -Fuji
     
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  24. The Meat

    The Meat Hall of Fame

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    But then it would negate the polarization in my racquet from adding even weight in the head and grip, which I don't even want to think about.

    Racquet physics you are tearing me apart!!!!! :(
     
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  25. fuzz nation

    fuzz nation Legend

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    HA!!!

    That's why I try to avoid the math I guess. In basic terms, a little lead on the hoop will make it "heavier through the ball". Once I have that to the degree I like, I'll counterbalance to get the handling to where it's cozy for me, but not twitchy and unpredictable. Just add lead in small portions to keep the changes not-too-drastic.
     
    #25
  26. Muppet

    Muppet Hall of Fame

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    Another angle to approach this from is to keep your frame the same, but with a lower powered string bed. Then you can put the light feel of your racquet to good use, really nailing the ball with lots of spin.

    Then again, maybe you like a relaxed stroke.
     
    #26
  27. chunlimeyers

    chunlimeyers Rookie

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    Quote:
    Originally Posted by LeeD
    Just slowly add lead to the 12 position.
    At 12 pts. headlight, it must have a SW of only 315 or so, about the same as most 10 oz rackets.

    Reply:
    I really like the balance of my racquet as it is now, I just want to make it swing heavier. Would an increase of .5 oz make it swing heavier?

    Ok, first of all, thank you LeeD for answering the question i had in my mind of, "how can i make my racket lighter".

    I had an old donnay racket i took the leather grip off of, and it became more head heavy, and thus harder to swing! I realize as their is no racket protection whatsoever in this thin frame, only some crazy drilling in the hoop could I lower the weight. However, I realized by LeeD, that simply putting that leather grip back on, would correct the frame, make it more head light, and thus lower the swingweight, and allow it to again be a great racket that i could swing fast yet have tons of weight to be the great volleying racket that I remember it to be!

    Now for meats problem. First, your racket being soo head light, can only be depolarized at this point(please correct me otherwise wise tw posters if I am wrong). Only adding tons of lead at the top so the POLES top and bottom are balanced is how to get it polarized, and, at that point, it would be very heavy and hard to swing).

    This problem is easy to visualize if you simply imagine your racket as a rubber mallet or hammer. The more weight you put at the top, the harder it is to swing, but the more 'plow through' is the word everyone likes to use, occurs. If you take that mallet and hold the rubber part, then your just swinging the handle into the ball, and you have next to nothing to plow through the ball. That is what you have now, Meat.

    So LeeD is right, all you have to do is add weight to the tip to make it 'swing heavier', because I have a microgel mp, and did this, majorly polarizing it and yes, making it slightly "heavier to swing" adding 1/2 oz at between 10 and 2. I gained TONS of power and gobs o spin!

    The other posters are right, if you just add weight to the middle, you will just make a heavier racket, and since u have a depolarized frame, it won't do much of anything except add more mass, so maybe add some power, and maybe slow down your swing(if your not strong enough to swing the heavier racquet, but if you are, you only achieve slightly more stability, and will be more fatigued after the set.)

    So, even though you say over and over you don't want to change the balance of the racket, you need to change the balance of the racket.

    If you string it looser, shots will/can just go out quicker, tighter, you will still mistime shots from it being too head light and well, you get the scenario there.

    Thanks again LeeD for solving my problem, hope this helps.
     
    #27
  28. tlm

    tlm Legend

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    Okay and what exactly does that mean today? Lets see 20 years before that everybody used wood rackets. So I guess we should still be using those also.
     
    #28
  29. jonestim

    jonestim Professional

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    Nope. You made it more headlight and changed the balance, but you didn't lower the swingweight by adding the leather grip back. This is a myth that I see discussed on this board on a regular basis.
     
    #29
  30. chunlimeyers

    chunlimeyers Rookie

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    Originally Posted by spaceman_spiff
    Keep in mind that 20 years ago the Wilson Profile 2.7 OS was considered a granny stick.

    Racquet Name: Wilson Profile 2.7 Oversize
    Head Size: 110 sq. in. / 710 sq. cm.
    Length: 27.00 inches / 68.58 cm
    Strung Weight: 13.20 oz / 374 g
    Balance: 6pts HL
    Swing Weight: 356
    Stiffness: 74(should be 100!)
    String Pattern: 16 Mains/20 Crosses


    That's right, 20 years ago, 60- and 70-year olds were wielding 13+ oz sticks with swingweights over 350.

    I know old guys(i am talking in their 70's to 80's) that still use and love that racket!(because they can BLOCK anything, or swing super slow with no take back, and it probably will bound back to the service line with decent enough pace!) It is weighted and balanced so it CAN'T be moved very fast. Its like a WALL o RACKET its soo thick and stiff!(If you look at it, and were to guess, i would guess a '100' would be the tested stiffness rating on that racket. Like, that was were they established their BASELINE for testing purposes! haha) If one could swing it fast, you could hit the ball IN, from 3 COURTS DOWN! haha

    Jonestim said,
    "Nope. You made it more headlight and changed the balance, but you didn't lower the swingweight by adding the leather grip back. This is a myth that I see discussed on this board on a regular basis."

    And yes, if you are right, well, that was the problem, the racket became simply too head heavy by taking off that grip and i need to put the balance back to where it was. So, regardless of swingweight, i realize changing the balance and making it more head light balance is all I can do because this is a 12 ounce racket to start with, not the nice 11 ounce nearly even strung microgel i can customize all day with and not worry about too much weight when i am done.
     
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2013
    #30
  31. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    I had several friends who used that WilsonProfile. All my skill level, about 4.0.
    They had slow swing speeds, and could hit moderate pace balls with that racket, slow balls with another racket, like the ProStaffs.
    When swung fast, those rackets do NOT hit faster. Instead, they hit about the same. They hit fastest with moderate firm, medium speed swings. Anything faster, the ball did NOT go faster.
    A player with a fast swing speed could serve much faster with softer, smaller rackets. Same with forehand and backhands. I'll give the Profile the edge in punch volleys.
     
    #31
  32. spaceman_spiff

    spaceman_spiff Hall of Fame

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    What it means is that a "heavy" racket might not necessarily be all that heavy. It's just our perception that has changed.

    20 years ago, there were loads of people with short, flicky strokes who could use those 13-oz Profiles without any problems (other than TE from the stiffness). They were called granny sticks because even a half-blind, arthritic 80-year-old could get the ball over the net with the flick of the wrist.

    The point is, not everyone has a problem swinging a 13-oz frame, so not everyone is leading up their frames out of some insecure desire to impress people as you imply. Some people (not all) genuinely play better with a heavier frame despite the widespread belief that lighter is better.
     
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