Advice on Stringing Machine

Discussion in 'Stringing Techniques / Stringing Machines' started by MagicalRain1, Apr 4, 2013.

  1. MagicalRain1

    MagicalRain1 New User

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    I've never owned a stringing machine, but I am afraid I may fall prey to the biases of the site. I really want to help out my tennis team and teammates over these next few years by being the town stringer and I want to do a job that compares to the professionals with their fancy stringers.

    I grew up getting the best string jobs from pro shops and throwing tons of money at the best brands year after year and I was never disappointed. However, I've been trying to use my friend's cheap stringers to save money and I've been getting way less out of the strings and I blame their stringers/quality of machine etc. I don't even know what good strings feel like anymore, but I want to find that feeling again on my own.

    So here I am now, reading about every brand, type and interest I can find to quench my thirst for getting my own machine to feed into that. However, I'm afraid to trust anyone. Every writer seems so one-sided it's pretty disheartening. I am not looking for the cheapest possible fix to trick my friend's into earning me a profit. I really want them to know what it's like to have good strings and to have someone dependable there for them. I don't want to set a limit or price range for my dream machine. I don't care if it's the slowest, ugliest piece of machine out there, just help me find something dependable.
     
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  2. abllee2198

    abllee2198 Rookie

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    Looking for a no frills pro grade machine?

    Just buy a Babolat Star 5. It is best value out there and will definitely do a pro level string job.

    For more flexibility, get the Yonex Protec 8. Very reliable and adds multiple speeds and better tension accuracy, no overshoot.

    I haven't tried the new Tecnifibre Mika yet, but it looks very promising.

    All the best,

    Albert Lee
     
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  3. Radicalized

    Radicalized Semi-Pro

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    There are biases anywhere, but for the most part, most stringers here, no matter how accomplished, have had limited exposure to all of the machines on the market. Some clearly state they use a certain machine because of the cost and number of racquets they do at a time. Even the best stringers may use one machine at work and another at home, and wish to get their hands on other models, but it isn't always possible.

    First, you should find out what machines these "poor" stringjobs are coming from. Second, despite volume, what kind of technique do the stringers have? Here you have put the onus on others.

    If you have read the posts, you should have determined that the general thought that the stringing process and technique, beyond a particular machine itself, are responsible for a good job.

    That said, you could go to the threads regarding a company like P1 and say, "They string for pro X. I'll use that machine." Even in those circles, machines vary. Babolat string team. Wilson string team. Well-known shops.

    Regardless, as it's no longer April 1st, and I feel safe in saying this, the onus will be on you, and despite the recent thread regarding "how easy is it to learn to string," to string volume consistently and learn the techniques forum members drool over, takes time and some physical effort.
     
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2013
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  4. Irvin

    Irvin G.O.A.T.

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    Maybe it is not your friend's stringer but the strings or technique you are using. But if you want a stringer a good place to start is Mansewerz's Guide to Buying Stringing Machines. Everyone can string but not everyone will like doing it. I suggest you start with a good low end stringer. Don't spend more than 2 times what you can afford to lose. If you don't like it sell the machine and walk away. You should be able to sell a quality machine for 1/2 price easy. If you like it and want to upgrade sell it and upgrade. If you find the first machine you get is all you need - perfect.
     
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2013
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  5. max

    max Hall of Fame

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    It would help us to know these things:

    (1) how old are you? (what kind of tennis time horizon do you have before you "age out" from play)

    (2) what's your budget?

    (3) how many frames a month do you expect to be doing?

    (4) are you expecting to do this is a business? (if so, you want a more expensive machine that minimizes your time commitment per frame).
     
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  6. anubis

    anubis Hall of Fame

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    The best, most accurate string jobs that I've ever done were on a crank/lockout machine with fixed clamps and a nice, solid, sturdy base that doesn't warp under the pressure of over 1000 lbs of tension. I paid less than $400 for a used stringing machine.

    You don't have to pay thousands of dollars. From what you describe, you'd do well with either a new or used Prince Neos. They are great, reliable machines that will last thousands of string jobs. Just get a Gamma tension calibrator to make sure the crank is properly calibrated.
     
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  7. Tamiya

    Tamiya Semi-Pro

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    Good workman needs to "be One" with his tools,
    tool needs to be dependable & reliable.

    Get both to tango & you're laughing.
     
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  8. MagicalRain1

    MagicalRain1 New User

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    Hey all thanks for quick replies. I won't disband from this topic like I have done for my last one. My friend from that topic gave up on tennis shortly after so I stopped trying to help him get a stringer. Now I'm back to where I want a better one. I just used my friends $400 drop weight I just know it was from Eagnas, but I ended up with dead strings in a week and I strung it at 62lbs so probably the strings are at about 40lbs now just 2 weeks later or at least from what it feels like...

    @abllee2198 -- I couldn't immediately find the second two stringers you suggested, but I would like to see them :// for the most part anything over $2,000 I won't be able to justify for my first stringer.

    @max
    (1) 19 (also note I'm from the USA as well)
    (2) Under $2,000 for now
    (3) I have about 4 guys trying to work with me to test out strings and learn this "business" with me so for the first couple of months the stringer will be shared and I don't want to say abused... but very heavily used...
    (4) Yeah I was hoping to get a stringer that I can get along with and not have a lot of problems using right away. I wouldn't call it a business it's more of a team stringer and one for myself (3 of my racquets already need new strings and a few of my teammates). and I know I have a long way to go before I'm at THAT level for stringing but I just have to get one that isn't being thrown around like a prostitute on a Friday night (I want to know I'm getting something special).

    And yes I fully agree with the comments I'm getting. I know it wasn't my friends' fault they aren't professional stringers and watching them I honestly didn't have any problem with their technique. Of course I blame the machine, but probably I will struggle here too.

    Okay back to what I am wanting to get at...
    Stringway has automative drop-weights. Ultimately I want to stay away from drop weights, but this seems so close to an electric/electronic that I would gladly take the inconvenience of a pump to know my string jobs would be accurate, even with the label "drop weight". I've read a lot of topics about these, but I want to know what I get more if I buy an electronic machine over one of these?

    Prince Neos/crank... They are fast but a little bit inaccurate + require the turning of the crank, right? With the add-on of a Wise-Tension Head does that turn it into an electronic? Why then wouldn't I purchase an electronic machine?

    Now for me the electric seems like an updated crank. I've heard some pretty good things about them and obviously they do something right to still have a place on the market. What features am I actually looking to benefit from? Will there be more of that accuracy that the crank lacks?

    And finally a couple questions about electronic stringers. Which ones would you recommend under $2,000? I know that there may be a bunch of stringers that are with in the realm of possibilities here, but just for electronic machines which ones are there? And for these correct me if I'm wrong I'm looking at a little added time on the overall job, but pinpoint accuracy?

    That should do it. I'm reading Mansewerz Guide here before I post this, but I am pretty sure I am understanding this all correctly so I'll numbre the questions and please correct me where I am wrong so I can know I'm going in the right direction
     
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  9. struggle

    struggle Hall of Fame

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    If you really want to buy a nice machine and stay under $2k, i'd likely just get a crank/lockout machine.

    NEOS or Gamma 6004. I'm talking a new machine, i guess...

    If you could find a decent used electronic i might consider that too.
     
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  10. beernutz

    beernutz Hall of Fame

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    I had a $2000 or less budget for a stringing machine I'd be very tempted to get this one:

    http://www.tennis-warehouse.com/Gam...Stringing_Machine/descpageGAMMA-6900ELS6.html

    Gamma 6900 ELS w/ 6-Point SC Mount Stringing Machine

    Of course if had a budget that big I'd try to find the extra $400 or so to move up to the 5800 ELS to get a linear pull machine.

    However my next big stringing-related purchase, if it ever happens, will be a Wise for my Neos at ~$530.
     
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2013
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  11. Lakers4Life

    Lakers4Life Hall of Fame

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    The machine is not the problem, it's the stringer's fault. Also, was the string you used a poly, because that would explain the tension drop. Over stretching poly above 55lb, shortens the life of the tension. Pro Players can string at high tensions becuase they change string sooner than chaning thier underwear and they are not worried about how long the string will last.
     
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  12. Big_Dangerous

    Big_Dangerous Legend

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    Yeah, most pros change rackets after every 7-9 games.
     
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  13. MagicalRain1

    MagicalRain1 New User

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    Well okay I agree but it's just some ****ty synthetic string that gives me no spin. I just want more information on these different kinds of stringing machines so I can understand the differences between what I am looking at in your suggestions.

    #1 Automative drop-weights
    I heard that these are more like cranks in the sense that you pump the machine, but get results like an electric/electronic.
    If this is true then what brands would be good for an American? Stringway is all over seas... do I have any other option?

    #2 Crank/Lockout
    Faster than a drop weight maybe a little inaccurate. With the add-on of a Wise-Tension Head it makes it accurate? Why then wouldn't I purchase an electric machine?

    #3 Electric
    Would you ever call this an updated crank? Sounds to me like it's a notch above the crank but I still have to turn the crank.

    #4 Electronic
    Convenient, ease of use, little bit slower, but with pinpoint accuracy. Probably I can afford a decent one, but I hear a lot of these don't give off a great warranty at around 1yr for electronic. I would want at least 3-4 years out of the entire machine ://

    So then out of these which one lasts longer? Cranks? I don't need a machine for 10-20 years, but I want one that will be reliable! Which one of these options would be best for me assuming I use it heavily over the course of the next 3 years?

    And yes I see your suggestions, but I want to have some comparisons rather than suggestions. I like to be able to understand what my options are between the different stringers. Pros and cons etc. like looking through my questions you can see I'm still weighing out the different mechanics in my head.

    As of now I'm a fan of the Stringway Automative and the electric as a better version of a crank, but still don't know of the brands. Electronics would be amazing if I can get one for less than $2k even if it's a table top. Hope you can follow along with my scattered thoughts here and I would be happy to absorb as much information as I can on this discussion.
     
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  14. eelhc

    eelhc Hall of Fame

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    Sorry...

    I'm a new stringer myself but you're asking the wrong question...

    Instead of asking for advice on what machine you should purchase you should be asking what's the best way to learn how to string IMO.

    even though I've just started... stringing is not that complicated IMO... That said... there are still no short cuts.
     
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  15. MagicalRain1

    MagicalRain1 New User

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    Oh I can string it's just going to be tying off and learning how to adjust to different racquets/strings. I want to know if I'm biased or have any misinformation before I decide on brand I need to learn of the different types of stringers and of the 4 out there I want to make sure I'm understanding these things right.
     
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  16. Irvin

    Irvin G.O.A.T.

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    not like a crank at all. Drop we it's are CP cranks are not. Alpha sell Stringway and Eagnas makes one too.
    cranks can be fast but the faster you string with a crank the more tension loss you will have. Some electronics are CP and some are not. If you have a CP then as you are moving the clamp it continues to pull where a crank just holds.
    again cranks are not CP
    Electronic are the fastest but some will argue that point.
    Longest lasting? The fewer the parts the less there is to fail. Drop weights and cranks may outlast an electronic machine.
     
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  17. Lakers4Life

    Lakers4Life Hall of Fame

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    To answer your question bluntly. All machines will string rackets in one way or another. It's just a matter of how easily you want to accomplish your task. Basically the more you pay the easier it gets, or the higher the machine the easier it is to string. I say that because some machines are just over priced. Albert's suggestion of getting a Babolat Star 5, is a bit extreme, but most of who have used that machine or very similar to it, will agree it's an easy machine to use.

    As for what eelhc pointed out, you should be more concerned in learning how to string correctly. I strongly suggest watching YULitle's Videos on YouTube, if you have not already. Mike covers all the important points in learning how to string.
     
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  18. MagicalRain1

    MagicalRain1 New User

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    back at Irvin -- #1 you are saying Eagnas makes automative DWs but their site is so hard to maneuver I haven't seen one there yet. I am against getting a normal drop weight just from using my friends, but if Eagnas makes an automative I would really like to see the way they work.
    #2 is well versed
    #3 are you saying electric is constant pull? or how do these compare to electronic?
    #4 and yes electronics are very nice, but like you said the reliability would be the trade-off here.

    L4L I can see where you are coming from. Like I was saying it's not about how easy it is for me. I just want a dependable stringer that can push through a hard hit 3-5 years of stringing. I will gladly post another thread if I need help with using it, but I want to get a stringer ordered here soon. I'm really not sure that my dream stringer exists, but so far I'm interested in these American Automative stringers by Eagnas (still haven't found any), electric cranks, and probably I will keep trying to compare these to the electronic stringers. I might just go after a stringway because they seem to last people 5-10 years and string very consistently, but again I have yet to understand most of the other options. With a crank too I could see myself going for that, but I don't like the idea that I could string too fast and come out with an inconsistent string job after spending $800-1400.
     
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  19. Radicalized

    Radicalized Semi-Pro

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    The OP should clearly get a mainstream machine used by those to whom he can compare himself. This way he can string and only blame his own technique for any issues that arise with quality.

    The Eagnas is a manual portable and is called the Logic 90 (automatic DW), as you couldn't find it. And what you mean is sold in America by Eagnas.

    Or you could get an ML100/120 and call it a day.

    You are 19-years-old. Others here have learned, even if they don't like it, items may need to be repaired. If you don't care how slow or ugly, get something that doesn't require electricity or any sophisticated components. Also, and to speak in a manner like you have already used, if you are going to be "pimping" the unit out, you want something that can withstand the rigors of movement and the careless.

    That is a big comment based on your opinions of the machines and the stringjobs. Have you guys gotten together to be sure you are doing a quality job, if of course that is the issue, rather than other factors? Secondly, strings will last only so long. Some types break faster. Some types die faster. Some people never break them, but they should be changed. We don't know anything about your playing style/time/strength or string use either.
     
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2013
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  20. Radicalized

    Radicalized Semi-Pro

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    To answer some of your questions, the automatic drop weight was noted in the above post.

    The use of the crank in terms of speed depends on you. Again, it is constant pull vs. lockout.

    You can have a Wise added because of the electronic pulling it offers that you might not get in a certain lower-end machine. You can research that product individually for features. However, if you need to have it serviced or can't go electric, you can revert back to the manual mechanism.

    There are different types of electric machines because they use different methods to stop pulling at a certain tension. Some are based on the motor stopping based on torque, for example. Some use microprocessors that detect the load.

    There is no way you are going to get a single answer because so many models work well.

    For what you've told us, I'd say you are pointing mostly at longevity/durability and accuracy. And this is perhaps why you have pointed out the automatic dropweight a couple of times.

    Perhaps you don't want to deal with calibrating a crank down the line. Or perhaps the fear of the electric "dying" in some way bothers you.

    A machine that has manufacturer backing and wide use, regardless of type, will get the job done on the mechanical level.
     
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2013
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  21. Irvin

    Irvin G.O.A.T.

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    If you can't find something on their site you could always call. Here is their machine though http://eagnas.com/logic90.html
    Some electronic machines are constant pull and some aren't. Sme pull until a set tension is reached and shut off similar to a lockout machine. Some pull to a set tension and shut, then when the string relaxes it pulls again. That is considered constant pull
    I think a component could go bad in an electronic circuit before you string your first racket. But it could last for years and years.

    I am not going to choose for you that's your problem only you really can determine what you really want and need.
     
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  22. MagicalRain1

    MagicalRain1 New User

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    Okay I feel a lot better about my understanding today in comparison to a week ago. My friends' have all tied off for me, but I don't know how they adjusted to the different string types or how I will adjust to different racquets/strings myself.

    Still today, I feel the need to ask about the clamps/crank for lockout machines. Say I tension the L/o off and the crank stops. When I switch the clamp the tension then has a slight drop. What I'm wondering is if there is some consistency in this? Or is it more of a requirement getting a Gamma tension calibrator?

    Also from this link http://www.eagnas.com/logic90.html
    I saw that there is Laserfibre Quantum TT vs. Eagnas Logic 90 vs. Stringway ML100... I just wonder what the differences actually are from a more technical standpoint?

    Obviously the SW MS200 T92 seems like such a perfect stringer in comparison, but if I can trust a crank to be within half a pound I'd be fine putting more effort forth to be more accurate with that. I think for me the concept of constant pull vs lockout is very hard to grasp but what I'm understanding is that 58lbs = 58 for CP machine while 58lbs is = or > 58 for L/O machines ??

    And okay about the European sites vs. American I am seeing some varying prices on machines (maybe because of outdated sites, shipping costs, inflation etc.). I think that I may need a price guide!

    And btw Radical, you definitely have an approach that goes beyond my logic. What I am starting to see from your standpoint is as this example explains: "Once you learn your machine you will be capable of achieving the same results as any other experienced stringer." Something down that line so then would you say that I would need a much better stringer then to accomplish a higher standard for my string jobs or rather that it is the stringer not the machine that ultimately decides the outcome?

    But yes okay I am hoping to get away with using a crank / automative DW wherein I can accomplish quick and accurate results as such from a profession stringer. But on top of that, I would like to know that I won't have to keep checking tension or risk killing the string using a crank, or that I am not losing a whole lot of value moving down from an electronic to an automative drop weight. And I think that having the comfort of a Gamma 5800 ELS is important. As it would show the string is at XX desired lbs and I couldn't possibly be off by 3-4lbs for my "client". I do think that it's hard for me getting past these psychological aspects, but probably you are right about all these different mechanics bringing someone to a desirable end result as long as the stringer is patient, skilled and confident with the machine of choice.
     
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  23. Irvin

    Irvin G.O.A.T.

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    58 lbs is 58 lbs no matter what type of tensioner you have. Get a calibrator and check the tension and you will see for yourself. Take any machine you want to use and pull tension. If it does not pull exactly to the set tension it's broke or simply needs adjusting.lets assume you are using a drop weight. You pull to reference tension, while you move the clamps gravity continuously pulls at reference tension like you were hanging a 58 lbs rock on the string. You move you clamp and remove the tensioner. DRAWBACK - no way around it it is going to happen (worse with flying clamps that only clamp two strings) all clamps drawback. You tension the next string and the first thing you see is the clamp returns to its original position as it was in when you originally set the clamp and you repeat.

    Now let's assume you are using an electronic constant pull machine you pull tension and the motor winds until the set tension is reached (more than likely a tiny bit over but there is more overshoot on some stringers) and the intelligence in the tension stops the motor hold the string at the same length as it was in when the tension was reached. Mind you the electronic constant pull is no longer pulling it is now holding. Because there is no longer any pulling action the string will relax and tension will fall, then the tensioner intelligence steps in recognizes the loss of tension and pull and holds again and continues doing that until you clamp the string. Then DRAWBACK - again now way around it. From this point on same as a drop weight. Maybe instead of calling an electronic CP a constant pull they should call it a constant pulling and holding tensioner.

    Now take the crank, you pull tension and at exactly the set tension it stops with no overshoot and holds the string at the same length. The string starts to relax and tension will be lost. You could wait a few seconds and disengage the lockout and pull tension again and you will have the same result as you did on the electronic CP wouldn't you? You could do that as many times as you want. But many people don't and will tell you a lockout will pull at a lower tension. It it pulls at a lower tension it needs to be fixed.

    IMHO there is only one tension that pulls at the same exact tension every time with no overshoot and that is the lockout. Don't sell it short.

    Drop weights are good too and they are the ONLY true constant pull. Electronic CPs are much faster than either (drop weight or lockout,) you start the tension and while the tensioner is adjusting the tension on the string you can prepare to move the clamp.
     
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  24. Radicalized

    Radicalized Semi-Pro

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    MagicalRain1,

    This is extremely verbose, but as I don't know your thoughts beyond how I interpret your writing, this is it for the thread. None of my notes are an attempt to point to any particular flaws of you or your friends, only to question exactly how you all arrived at what the causes were for the stringing issues you noted. However, from general experience with other stringers with different machines, and this forum, one sees flaws in both technique and machine use that cause undesirable consequences. It's that "you don't know what you don't know" idea.

    For example, as you've pointed out a few times, you have questions about tying off. I'm sure you've read methods for getting slack out before fully tying off or whether or not to add tension on the final strings. Different stringers and methods will give you answers on this. Likewise, you may personally prefer one knot to another. There isn't always a general consensus a new stringer can go by.

    My concern is in recommending a machine by which you can't compare your results to determine where the stringjob you've done may not meet your expectations. The difficulty in that, is without getting into huge thread debates, is you are more likely to find accomplished/high-volume stringers using particular machines, such as a Neos. The electric versions can go into the thousands.

    There is a competitor of TW that can't be mentioned because of forum rules that, for example, has discussed the use of the Stringway automatic dropweight, crank, and for example, the high-end Wilson Baiardo, all with acceptable results to what they claim to be their tested high standards.

    Given all of your perceptions (as I don't know the reality) of your recent stringing issues, research, and questions, you're going to have to believe in your machine or it will drive you crazy. You have to know the machine is doing its part. That is how I see it. That was part of my point.

    I'm also looking at this from the point of view based on your first post, where you "grew up getting the best string jobs from pro shops" but have now "been getting way less out of the strings and…blame their stringers/quality of machine etc." If you have a higher-end machine matching those from which your previous "best string jobs" came from, you might feel better, whether the benefit is real or perceived. Again, you'd have a baseline to which you can compare a stringjob with string X that you've done.

    From there, I've tried to pick out your key points:
    Not the cheapest, but you set a price limit under $2000 for now
    Don't care if slow and ugly
    Dependable
    Accurate
    Handle heavily use

    Again, cranks and automatic dropweights result, as long as you keep the crank calibrated.

    Electronics are hard to say unless the idea of possible failure and repair no longer bother you, with electronics warranties being at 1-year when you want 3-4 of use.

    Of course, anything mechanical can fail, but you get the point.

    Standard dropweights are discounted already by you. Plus, you and your friends wouldn't want to be lifting and dropping all day, watching the bar to "perfection."

    And the answer would be the stringer (person) determines the outcome but a machine must tension accurately, the clamps most hold properly, and tension shouldn't be applied too abruptly, if using a machine where the user has manual control of the speed and force of the tensioner. I simply thought you put too much emphasis on the machine being the cause without a specific evaluation of why or the model in question.

    The problem is that there are so many ideas "debated" here about what constitutes the best machine, and where are possible "weaknesses" allowed that don't affect quality to any "humanly" detectable amount. Are you going to get string meters to monitor your work? Compare? Again, there are so many things one can do.

    Well, the best with your purchase. I certainly don't have anything to add.
     
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2013
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  25. MagicalRain1

    MagicalRain1 New User

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    Electronic $1,800-2,500... by company or by choice?

    All right, since this is my journey I guess I'll bump my post back up and exude some more information and hopefully get some more insightful responses!
    
    To Irvin -- I will definitely not sell any machine short and will be kind to explain these same ideas with my friends. Much appreciated information.

    To Radicalized -- I agree with the notion that you can never be too telling; especially not when you have an intent listener. Other people might find it boring, but I can absolutely agree with the psychological boundaries that are present and choose to take it seriously.

    I know I have a long way to go and I was more afraid that people would criticize my lack of knowledge. I know very little and need a lot of help, but I have a strong will to make this happen. I want to use the stringer as a coach, but also I want to start playing tennis very seriously again. So even with the tortoise approach I think I will make for a great stringer with whatever machine I purchase.
    ---------------------
    As far as picking out the stringer goes I have had the leisure of time so rushing this decision was never a problem, but I only have one more concern left.

    I have come to the conclusion that an electronic machine is the best choice for me. I really like the idea of being professional and being a serious dedicated stringer and not just one doing it as a part time thing. I've even been considering joining the USRSA and learning as much as I can about this stringing institute.

    As I said, I have one more concern to tackle, which is: Company! I see electronics in the $1800-2500 range as my ultimatum. However, I don't know much about the services or benefits I will receive. Right now, I'm all about the Alpha Ghost vs. Gamma 2800 ELS, but an interesting thing caught my eye. I found a brand I had never heard of, TTSM, and I wondered if other companies have followed suit with their ideas (amazing crank machine and clamping mechanisms). And I wonder what other opportunities there are (keep in mind I'm an American).

    I mean TTSM is all about "perfection" wherein today we are seeing it's more about speed. Nobody wants to take 10minutes to mount a racquet and 45 more to string the thing. Basically, I was wondering if there are any underground/up-and-coming stringing machine manufacturers that you know of (within my price range) that would make me happy! And yeah I will definitely be looking for warranties and maybe making my machine last as long as it can so the company is a great factor, but in your opinion what should I be more worried about, the company or the product's reliability?

    I don't want to get stuck with a dud.
     
    #25
  26. Slitch

    Slitch Rookie

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    The TTSM is a very old machine. I wouldn't bother with the mounting, it looks time consuming.

    What type of stringer you buy for that kind of money won't make much of a difference. You can get some reliable and accurate machines with a sturdy mounting base and clamps that will do a great job in aiding you to string.
    If you want to have stringer that comes with a longer warranty look for a stringway (or laserfibre). The 200 with 92 single action clamps looks great and a lot of people swear by it. It comes with a 10 year warranty and you can use it when the power is out. However, I'm biased towards stringway so decide for yourself.
     
    #26
  27. Irvin

    Irvin G.O.A.T.

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    #27
  28. beernutz

    beernutz Hall of Fame

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    'I mean TTSM is all about "perfection" '
    Come on, that is marketing speak if I ever heard it. Perfection isn't produced by the machine. The person using it has a lot more impact on the final product than the machine does, imo.

    That stringer is an interesting idea but the website says even a rebuilt model is $2500. That seems pricey for a used stringer, particularly when you compare it to what you could get new for that same money.
     
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2013
    #28
  29. Lakers4Life

    Lakers4Life Hall of Fame

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    I have a friend who owns a TTSM and swears by it. According to him, you have to string at a lower tension to get correct reference tension. I've seen the machine one time, but I was amazed at how the thing was built. Most of the parts are anodized aluminum. The closest thing I can compare the tensioner is the Manual Toyo-Zouki (manufacturer of Yonex Machines) and the Kimony machine.
     
    #29
  30. struggle

    struggle Hall of Fame

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    translated as, "i need to calibrate my machine"?

    that makes no sense otherwise.
     
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  31. Lakers4Life

    Lakers4Life Hall of Fame

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    When I mean reference tension, it was the dynamic tension. The TTSM does not allow the frame to expand and contract like other machines. It has like 8 supports. So you really have to lower the tension to get the correct target dynamic tension. You have to see it to believe it.
     
    #31
  32. MagicalRain1

    MagicalRain1 New User

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    well I was just using that as an example that stringer was the **** in the 90s I was asking more so what that would be like in this generation. I honestly don't think anyone would be that crazy to buy one and I would not call the "perfection" thing I said as a marketing ploy. It's a nice machine but it's like an hour to string and I was just saying it was fun to read about.
    Alpha vs Gamma ??
    stringway appears to be with Alpha and I do like their machines would the 2800 dollar one be an insane investment or would I get a lot more out of that?
     
    #32
  33. struggle

    struggle Hall of Fame

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    unless you just have money to burn, i can't honestly suggest that you need a 2800 dollar machine (although we all would like to have one).

    i'd go with gamma over alpha any day. stringway is a whole different thing, not to be compared really (users seem to swear by them).
     
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2013
    #33
  34. MagicalRain1

    MagicalRain1 New User

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    yeah that's the thing with stringway. it's either their automatic with a stand or a $2800 electronic. They do have tension calculation plus the string length with that machine so I mean that would make things pretty convenient. Not sure what the other machines have for special features or how difficult it is to learn the length/tension calculation. I just see a bunch of electronic machines for Gamma and I can't really process what I'm getting differently in order to make an informed decision.
     
    #34
  35. Lakers4Life

    Lakers4Life Hall of Fame

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    I own, what was once a $6000 machine. :D Even though I paid $1500 for it.

    Stringway owner are fanatical about thier machines, but I don't see any great advantage in using the machine. I used one before and was not impressed.
     
    #35
  36. struggle

    struggle Hall of Fame

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    well, with Gamma..... unless you buy the highest end machine you don't get the good/best base-clamps (they also come on the Gamma 6004 lockout, for example, at $1300).
     
    #36
  37. Lakers4Life

    Lakers4Life Hall of Fame

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    Most of us with what are considered high-end or Professional machines, don't really appriciate what we have unless they have use lower end machines. All I can say is the higher-end machines are more efficient (easier to use) than the lower ones. But one thing is certain, all machines will string rackets in one way or another.
     
    #37
  38. kkm

    kkm Semi-Pro

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    The Kimony machine was made by Toyo-Zouki.
     
    #38
  39. Lakers4Life

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    They also made the Gosen machine.
     
    #39
  40. kkm

    kkm Semi-Pro

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    Toyo-Zouki made Gosen's GM-400, GM-1200, GM-1300 and GM-1400, but the GM-680, GM-700, GM-800, GM-1500, and GM-2000EX have been Taiwan-made.
     
    #40
  41. MagicalRain1

    MagicalRain1 New User

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    I guess I could look into getting one shipped from international :// that wasn't really in question but I should think about that too I suppose... I can't really find any of these stringing machines, but hey one more question! Are there any companies that make table-top electronic machine (not electric). I'll have to read about electric machines again, but I know people are against them
     
    #41
  42. MagicalRain1

    MagicalRain1 New User

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    Any examples of an electronic table top? I'm looking for portability... what options do I have? Probably I can keep it at home, but if I save money my parents would support me more.
     
    #42
  43. Irvin

    Irvin G.O.A.T.

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    What do you mean by electronic not electric?
     
    #43
  44. MagicalRain1

    MagicalRain1 New User

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    hmm I still can't edit my posts... but I guess I wouldn't really be able to string electronically without an outlet anyways... paralysis by analysis is really horrible right now and I'm really tired... cranks are starting to look good wherein I can pull up to the courts and string for some of the kids on my team. I really want a good electronic, but I can't really justify the extra $1,000 over a crank/automative anymore Prince Neos 1000 vs Stringway MS-200 vs. Gamma Progression ELS 2pt vs. Alpha Ghost

    I have the money, but it's hard to justify anything anymore..... sorry for the multiple posts and thinking out loud! I max out at $2500 so probably I wont get as many strings to try out, but if 2 years down the road I'll be happier with this machine with time saved and convenience that would be awesome... If there is some other electronic machine that anyone has to share with me that would be great too. I don't know what it was about the Gamma 5800 Els 6pt that seemed unappealing, I think looks really got to me, but with this one I could buy 2 or 3 reels and such.... I feel like such a twit... there are just too many choices
     
    #44
  45. MagicalRain1

    MagicalRain1 New User

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    I read somewhere that electronic is plug in and electric is charger like a battery vs an engine so that was my question Irvin. It still hasn't really clicked in my head tbh.
     
    #45
  46. Irvin

    Irvin G.O.A.T.

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    Many are going to say to get the best machine you can afford but I would start out a little slower just in case you find you really don't like stringing. You can get a table top Stringway automatic drop weight and it may be something you may like. I think they start around $700 and seem to have a good resale value.

    EDIT: Then there is no ply or battery to haul around. BTW you will be able to edit most after you get a few more posts I have no idea what the count has to be.
     
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2013
    #46
  47. Slitch

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    In comparison. I started out on a Gamma Progression II 602 with flying clamps. Very nice quality machine. It was fun to string on but you need to adjust a lot. Especially with a stretchy multi. Nevertheless a great buy for a beginner.

    Upgraded to a Stringway ML100 and the difference is like night and day. The clamps are just top notch. With light pressure these things grip, even though mine are about 10-15 years old. The gripper is easy and fast. The tension mechanism is so easy and fast. The biggest benefit is the long warranty. The second biggest is you can sell it within a week for a nice price. These things are really wanted.
    The only downside to a stringway is the mounting, which takes more time when you need to string different rackets with different head sizes.

    For the budget, look for a stringway or a prince neos. Both are reliable and a lot of forum users can confirm that. Both will aid you in achieving a fast and consistent stringjob for many years. Remember; a great stringing machine will AIDE you, but eventually it comes down to your skills.
     
    #47
  48. MagicalRain1

    MagicalRain1 New User

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    Going with the Gamma 5800 2pt. Looking for the best place to order as of now.

    Final thoughts:
    If my range didn't make it over 2k I was definitely going after the Neos and the wise head. I like the idea of portability and switching between electric and crank when necessary.
    Less than 2k = good crank + Wise

    If I didn't have a budget over 1.5k I would have gone for the Stringway ML 120 maybe push towards the MS200 with being a weekend stringer.
    1.5k and less = Stringway

    at the 1k Range you are looking at crank and upgrade later. Drop weights at this stage are going to be good to. I even imagined buying an electric and just going to a wise if the socket blew up... but I didn't find anyone else who had done that. I'm sure that would be a good 5year plan :D

    You got Mutual Power, AG, Gamma, Prince, Stringway... they are all very competitive. These are just final thoughts and really I haven't read the rules to know what I can and cannot say, but for all the readers out there, like they've told me 15 times here; all of these machines are going to treat you well. You aren't going to find any major problems with them and they are going to get the job done. The only reason I went with Gamma was because they were the brand that fit in with my price range and really I'm maxing out my credit card like a crazy 19 year old invincible mthaftha and I love it. Hopefully all goes well :D
     
    #48
  49. MagicalRain1

    MagicalRain1 New User

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    actually I picked up a barely used $2k + shipping Gamma 5800 6pt SC over the web which feels like a hell of a deal for such a quality machine! I'm excited it will be here sometime next week! Time to hit up the "strings" section... will post back on how things go!
     
    #49
  50. tennis007

    tennis007 New User

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    Gamma makes great machines. I own a 6400 6pts machine w/ Wise 2086 and love it. Congrats...
     
    #50

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