Agassi says Nadal has a strong case for being the GOAT

Discussion in 'General Pro Player Discussion' started by octogon, Sep 23, 2013.

  1. Backspin1183

    Backspin1183 Legend

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    a few years ago, we all thought his Slam records would not be broken in several decades. Now looks like someone might just do it whilst Federer is still playing.
     
    #51
  2. Bud

    Bud Bionic Poster

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    Football teams are teams - not individual players. Team members and dynamics change yearly. So, your example is inaccurate.

    A better analogy is boxing. If Joe Schmoe is the heavyweight champion but has been beaten 70% of the time by another boxer then he's certainly not the greatest of all time. Would that be a bad match up, too? :grin:

    I you're going to use an analogy, at least make it fairly accurate.
     
    #52
  3. ripitup

    ripitup Banned

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    Laver last referred to Federer as GOAT several years ago. Who knows what he thinks NOW. Laver also refuses to acknowledge himself as GOAT. He even called McEnroe better than him which everyone knows is pure BS (including McEnroe himself). So him caling someone else as GOAT is basically "GOAT except Laver himself" as he is far too humble and refuses to even recognize himself, even though most of the World have for the last 45 years viewed him as GOAT.

    Federer never did really overtake him. The true passing of the torch might take place from Laver to Nadal though. If Nadal solidifies himself as GOAT it will be the first time Laver truly had to pass the mantle on. There have been pretenders since- Borg, Sampras, Federer, but none could overtake the Rocket.
     
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  4. 90's Clay

    90's Clay Legend

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    These former pros change GOAT candidates like you change underwear.

    I gotta feel for Pancho and Laver and Rosewall. The forgotten GOATs.
     
    #54
  5. ripitup

    ripitup Banned

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    In 2020 some kid will have won his 5th slam and he will be the new GOAT. Federer, now the #2 of his era, will be forgotten by then, and even less talked about than Sampras, Borg, Gonzales, or Rosewall, all who were atleast the best players of their own era. This is except on Tennis Federer Warehouse where 12 year old Federer fans will still fantasize over Federer besting best ever just like they do today, and just like they fantasize over He Man and Barbie being the Duke and Duchess of England, while the rest of the World almost forgets his name. Nadal, the new hyped GOAT of the mid 2010s will still be talked about, but pushed into the background of favor of the new big thing who is halfway to double digit slams. :lol: It is the way of things.
     
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  6. Shaolin

    Shaolin Hall of Fame

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    The point I was making was that football is about beating the field not just one team. Just like tennis. If you weren't in such a rush to make a snide comment to make yourself feel good inside you would see that.
     
    #56
  7. The Dark Knight

    The Dark Knight Legend

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    All sports it about beating the field.....

    Take boxing for example ....fighters fight to be the #1 contender . But in the heavyweight championship bout the winner is the best .

    Same for baseball.....you have the regular season league and the first place team gets into the World Series....

    But the difference in tennis is that the regular season matches are only half matches!!!! Tennis is 5 sets ....it's like playing 4 1/2 innings and declaring a winner . It's insane !
     
    #57
  8. ScentOfDefeat

    ScentOfDefeat Hall of Fame

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    As the obsession with number of Slams increases in public opinion, so to will the focus of players shift exclusively towards winning Slams. The history of the ATP Tour is also the story of how tennis became a measurable sport in terms of achievements. I very much doubt anyone in Laver's time would go to the effort of compiling endless detailed statistics such as these:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tennis_records_of_the_Open_Era_–_Men's_Singles

    I remember my grandfather talking about Rod Laver's Grand Slam as a somewhat mythical feat, but he wouldn't scrutinize his career or go crazy comparing his stats with Rosewall's or any other player from that era. Even the language that was used to describe great players was different from the type of language we use to describe current champions.

    Try as we may to compare across eras, the instruments we use to compare past and present will always reflect how we perceive tennis nowadays more than a universal "truth" about what a tennis champion is.
     
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2013
    #58
  9. Finisterre

    Finisterre New User

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    Nadal career is not over..Let see if he'll be able to add another major off clay entering in the discussion with Sampras achievements..i think he needs another slam extra clay to match Sampras..he needs 6 slam extra clay becasue Sampras has 7 extra grass..
     
    #59
  10. Federer20042006

    Federer20042006 Banned

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    Rafa can win 4 more French Opens to get to 17, and he wouldn't be the GOAT. He has to have more balance than that. You can't just utterly dominate one surface but merely be well-accomplished on the others and be the greatest tennis player of all-time.

    2 US Opens, 2 Wimbledons, a 1 Australian Open just isn't enough to compliment 12 French Open titles when you're comparing a guy to a man with 7 Wimbledsons, 5 US Opens, 4 Australian Opens, and 1 French Open.
     
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  11. Finisterre

    Finisterre New User

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    Obviously he can't reach Federer slam achievements but i think he has a chance with Sampras if he has 1 more slam extra clay (grass or HC)
    anyway titles of major aren't enough..head to head are more important..Federer has bad head to head with rivals..I think Federer and Nadal have not number of a real GOAT..
     
    #61
  12. Bud

    Bud Bionic Poster

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    I was simply pointing out your poor analogy. Team H2H's over 17 seasons is irrelevant to individual H2H's over multiple seasons.

    To your other point about beating the field. Sure, Federer can demolish 99% of the players on tour. However, if someone owns him 70% of the time H2H (especially over 31 meetings), he simply has no claim to be classified as the greatest of all time. He's not even the greatest of his generation.
     
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2013
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  13. chandu612

    chandu612 Guest

    Hey Agassi, shut your mouth. H2H is not relevant...Its all about No of weeks at No 1 and WTF's...lol
     
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  14. chandu612

    chandu612 Guest

    But But But Agassi, Nadal wont even be in the all time top 5 or even top 10 according to most of the TW experts
     
    #64
  15. bullfan

    bullfan Legend

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    Rafa has to actually win the slams.
     
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  16. octogon

    octogon Semi-Pro

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    Wishful thinking. Nadal is now the best hardcourt player in the world. He just had one of the greatest hardcourt seasons ever. Anyone who thinks he won't win any more slams off clay is deluded
     
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  17. Bud

    Bud Bionic Poster

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    Why does Federer receive a GOAT pass with a single French Open? :confused::confused:

    Clay is the most difficult surface to play on for a number of reasons.
     
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  18. BrooklynNY

    BrooklynNY Hall of Fame

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    Where have you been?

    Don't you know the GOAT was so unlucky to have went up against a mythological beast called the "Clay GOAT". This clay GOAT isn't really a great tennis player, he uses technology and slow surfaces to create spin which in turn creates what the world has come to know as a "matchup problem".

    If you question how there is a Greatest of all time, with 1 French Open, playing against a Surface-specific Greatest of all time at the exact same time, you now have an answer.

    Bring on the 0 FO comments...

    :twisted: :D
     
    #68
  19. Bud

    Bud Bionic Poster

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    It's that darned polyester .. without which, Nadal wouldn't even own a single slam.
     
    #69
  20. THUNDERVOLLEY

    THUNDERVOLLEY G.O.A.T.

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    Laver said there's no way to judge that, and also said he believes Nadal & Federer's abilities are equal.

    However, the supreme achievement and what it means to a player has been recognized for decades--a criteria Federer never met.

    He's out of that conversation, and even within his own generation, Nadal is being considered superior (objectively, of course).
     
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  21. octogon

    octogon Semi-Pro

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    That argument has never made much sense. It'll ring even more hollow when Nadal picks up a 2nd Australian Open, which means he'll have won every slam at least twice, which Fed will never accomplish. Nadal will have a better distribution of slams when that happens.

    Feddy should really have tried to get 1 more French. It'll be hilarious when Nadal will actually have bragging rights in terms of winning multiple slams on at all the slams.
     
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  22. RF20Lennon

    RF20Lennon Legend

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    Nadal is number 3 in my book, a tie with Sampras. But weeks at no. 1>>>H2H. But if Nadal wins 18 slams, he is the GOAT obviously.
     
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  23. Bud

    Bud Bionic Poster

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    :lol:

    Even the most ardent Fed fans don't believe that

    Federer would exchange that record in a second to have a winning H2H over Nadal
     
    #73
  24. ripitup

    ripitup Banned

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    Years at #1 >>>>> weeks at #1 as that is the most accurate way to compare players in history. Neither Federer or Nadal are even close to being the leaders in that stat with guys like Gonzales (8 years), Rosewall (6 years atleast shared the #1 rank), Laver (8 years), Sampras (6 straight years), Tilden (7 years straight), well over both. Nadal after this year is closer to Federer in years at #1 than Federer is to guys like Gonzalez and Laver in years at #1. So that said it becomes much less important than the head to head, as it isnt a GOAT category for either one. Had Federer been an all time leader in being #1 or Nadal not been the years #1 player several years himself it might be different, but he isnt. So that said the head to head record between two of the all time best is far more important than a category neither are even close to the best in.

    Of course Federer fans will continue trumpet only the weeks, as it shuts out everyone who would have had him bested if computer rankings were around then, and shuts out all the people I mentioned except Sampras. That is "their way" of doing things. I would add the sheer bogusness of Nadal still not being ranked #1 at this moment over Djokovic (despite his certainty to end the year there) puts a further stain on much of the credence of this "weeks at #1" thing, along with Federer holding it over Djokovic for a period last year undeservedly when Djokovic always held more slams and Masters in the last 12 months at any given period than Federer. Just a couple examples of why years at #1 far trump weeks which often hold questionable value as they seem to conflict with reality for a period of time.
     
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2013
    #74
  25. ripitup

    ripitup Banned

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    1. Nadal is going to win more non clay slams. You are living under a rock if you dont believe this.

    2. If Nadal did reach 12 French Opens it would just indicate Nadal's greatness on clay is so profound, that it is worth as much as Federer's greatness at Wimbledon and the U.S combined.


    You can think what you want and continue to post your 25 times a day saying "Fed is GOAT no matter what, Fed is GOAT no matter", but in the real World Nadal will be viewed as GOAT with 17 slams no matter how he gets there. Maybe even if with 15 given his mammoth head to head ownage of Federer, which btw even favors him excluding clay (3-2 in slams, 8-7 overall), his greater longevity at the top, his winning more on any surface than Federer could on clay (which throws out the so called one dimensional argument btw, Nadal on grass or hard courts > Federer on clay).

    Will he be the GOAT mostly due to his clay greatness, especialy in your proposed (never going to happen as Nadal is going to more majors off clay contrary to your beliefs and wishes) scenario? Yes. Clay is part of tennis though, and that is just the way it is, like it or not. A swimmer could become the best swimmer ever over Michael Phelps just by winning enough freestyle golds if they were that great. Say someone who won the 50, 100, 200, 400, 1500, Open Water, and all 3 relays at the next 3 Olympics, they would be greater than Phelps, regardless if they swim no backstroke, breastroke, butterfly, or individual medleys, and Phelps wins gold medals in all of those except breastroke. Now that said if Nadal had nothing on other surfaces could he best ever? No, but that ship has already LONG sailed. He is already a multiple U.S Open and Wimbledon Champion, with the Career Slam, Olympic singles gold (not on clay), soon probably to reach double digit hard court Masters, many other finals and top results, so unfortunately for Federer fans that argument will never be able to be made.
     
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2013
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  26. Vcore89

    Vcore89 Hall of Fame

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    Obviously, Agassi is being smart about what he is saying AND he can be wrong (or correct) but he essentially meant ''potential'' = ''strong case'', not utterly saying so or slamming the door shut. He is one of the greats (not GOAT) and so he has the say so (more than the other guy) to a certain extent.:)
     
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2013
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  27. The_Order

    The_Order Legend

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    Here's something I found interesting from this article:

    http://www.tennis-x.com/xblog/2013-09-23/13722.php

    Hmmmm, no mention of WTF? I wonder why :twisted:
     
    #77
  28. TMF

    TMF Talk Tennis Guru

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    Before thinking about surpassing Federer, Nadal has to surpass Laver, Sampras or Borg first. Don't forget Borg has an incredible streaks of his own. If you list Nadal and Borg impressive stats/streaks and compare them side-by-side, I wouldn't be surprise if Borg's numbers are better. Sampras owns the ranking over Nadal. Lendl, Connors, Borg all have multiple years winning over 90%, Nadal has none. These players all have won the WTF, a tournament where only the big boy show up. Nadal hasn't past the this test.


    Right now, Nadal just got past first base, he's still along way from home plate.
     
    #78
  29. octogon

    octogon Semi-Pro

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    Agassi has won a WTF and he never even mentions it. He talks about his olympic singles gold all the time though.

    The significance of the WTF is a recent invention by Fed fans (because he's got a bunch and Nadal hasn't) to try and keep some distance between Fed and Nadal in the GOAT conversation.

    What I find hilarious is that none of the pros who have actually won the WTF seem to be falling for it. The likes of Djokovic, Agassi, McEnroe etc seem to see it as any sort of factor or "hole" in Nadal's resume when takling about him being the GOAT. Says a lot really.
     
    #79
  30. ripitup

    ripitup Banned

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    Most people now have Nadal above Sampras, and pretty much everyone feels Nadal has passed Borg. Already obvious you are living in a fantasy land to even suggest Borg > Nadal at this point. Even suggesting Connors or Lendl could be over Nadal too, hahahahahaahahahahahahaahha! Back under your rock delusional Nadal hating troll.
     
    #80
  31. octogon

    octogon Semi-Pro

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    :lol::lol::lol::lol

    Boy, you really are struggling to cope with the reality of the situation, aren't you.

    You supported a great player. Be happy with that. Fed doesn't need to be the GOAT for you to still admire him. It's sort of better for you if you come to terms with it now, rather than torturing yourself trying to undermine Nadal for the next 2-3 seasons as he keeps hacking away at Fed's dwindling GOAT claims.

    Save yourself the grief.
     
    #81
  32. Death Master

    Death Master Banned

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    by far the best post of the day.




    awesome. well done general octagon.
     
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  33. Safinator_1

    Safinator_1 Professional

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    It is his opinion, If he wants to believe that Borg is ahead of Nadal and it makes him sleep better at night, so be it we live in a objective world
     
    #83
  34. The_Order

    The_Order Legend

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    WTF does have significance.

    The thing is, most players would rather have Davis Cup and Olympic gold ahead of the WTF.
     
    #84
  35. TMF

    TMF Talk Tennis Guru

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    Nadal has a lot of holes to fill. Clay is not enough to cover up for other surfaces. Lendl made 8 straight US Open finals, Sampras has 286 weeks at #1, Lendl 270 weeks, Connors 268 weeks. Borg 5 consecutive Wimbledon. Even the tier II great players have won the WTF, but Nadal is still unable to win one.

    How many indoor titles does Nadal have. Only 1?

    Instead of thinking about Federer, how about comparing Nadal to the other great players, because they have great numbers that Nadal doesn't have either.

    Most GS titles
    1. Roger Federer 17*
    2. Pete Sampras 14
    3. Rafael Nadal 13*
    4. Björn Borg 11
    5. Jimmy Connors 8
    = Ivan Lendl 8
    = Andre Agassi 8
    8. John McEnroe 7
    = Mats Wilander 7
    10. Dkokovic 6*
    = Stefan Edberg 6
    = Boris Becker 6

    GS finals
    1. Roger Federer 24*
    2. Ivan Lendl 19
    3. Pete Sampras 18
    = Rafael Nadal 18*
    5. Björn Borg 16
    6. Jimmy Connors 15
    = Andre Agassi 15
    8. John McEnroe 11
    = Mats Wilander 11
    = Stefan Edberg 11
    =Novak Djokovic 11*

    Consecutive GS finals
    1. Roger Federer 10*
    2. Roger Federer 8

    3. Rafael Nadal 5*
    4. Andre Agassi 4
    = Rod Laver 4
    = Novak Djokovic 4*
    7. Jimmy Connors 3
    = Andy Murray 3*
    = Björn Borg 3
    = Björn Borg 3
    = Björn Borg 3
    = Ivan Lendl 3
    = John McEnroe 3
    = Ivan Lendl 3
    = Ivan Lendl 3
    = Mats Wilander 3
    = Jim Courier 3
    = Jim Courier 3
    = Pete Sampras 3
    = Rafael Nadal 3*


    GS semi-finals
    1. Roger Federer 33*
    2. Jimmy Connors 31
    3. Ivan Lendl 28
    4. Andre Agassi 26
    5. Pete Sampras 23
    6. Rafael Nadal 21*
    = Novak Djokovic 21*
    7. John McEnroe 19
    = Stefan Edberg 19
    9. Boris Becker 18
    10. Björn Borg 17


    Consecutive GS semi-finals
    1. Roger Federer 23*
    2. Novak Djokovic 14*
    3. Ivan Lendl 10
    4. Ivan Lendl 6
    = Nadal 6
    6. Novak Djokovic 5*
    = Andy Murray 5*
    = Boris Becker 5
    9. Roger Federer 4*
    = Rod Laver 4
    = Tony Roche 4
    = John McEnroe 4
    = Andre Agassi 4
    = Jim Courer 4
    = Nadal 4*


    GS quarter-finals
    1. Jimmy Connors 41
    2. Roger Federer 40*(41 if not for walk-over in 2004)
    3. Agassi 36
    4. Ivan Lendl 34
    5. Pete Sampras 29
    6. John McEnroe 26
    = Stefan Edberg 26
    7. Novak Djokovic 26*
    8. Rafael Nadal 25*
    9. Boris Becker 23
    10. Björn Borg 21

    Consecutive GS quarter-finals
    1. Roger Federer 36*
    2. Ivan Lendl 14
    = 3. Novak Djokovic 18*
    4. Rafael Nadal 11
    5. = Andy Murray 11*
    6. Pete Sampras 10
    7. Ivan Lendl 7
    = Mats Wilander 7
    10. Andre Agassi 6
    = Rafael Nadal 6*

    All Four Slams Per Year
    Rod Laver 1969

    Three Slams Per Year
    Jimmy Connors 1974
    Mats Wilander 1988
    Roger Federer 2004
    Roger Federer 2006
    Roger Federer 2007

    Rafael Nadal 2010
    Novak Djokovic 2011


    All Four Finals Per Year
    Roger Federer 2006
    Roger Federer 2007
    Roger Federer 2009

    Rod Laver 1969

    All Four Semi-finals Per Year
    Rod Laver 1969
    Ivan Lendl 1987
    Roger Federer 2005
    Roger Federer 2006
    Roger Federer 2007
    Roger Federer 2008
    Roger Federer 2009

    Rafael Nadal 2008
    Novak Djokovic 2011
    Novak Djokovic 2012
    Novak Djokovic 2013
    Andy Murray 2011

    Most consecutive matches won at one Grand Slam event:
    1. Björn Borg (Wimbledon), 41
    2. Roger Federer (Wimbledon), 40(41 if not for walk-over in 2007)
    = Roger Federer (US Open), 40

    4. Pete Sampras (Wimbledon), 31
    = Rafael Nadal (French Open), 31

    Most consecutive Slams played:
    1. Wayne Ferreira 56
    2. Roger Federer 55*
    = Stefan Edberg 54
    4. Fabrice Santoro 46
    5. Dominik Hrbatý 44
    6. Feliciano Lopez 43*
    7. Tommy Robredo 41
    8. David Ferrer 40*
    9. Mark Woodforde 37
    =. Jonas Björkman 37

    Most Grand Slam match wins
    1. Roger Federer 259*
    2. Jimmy Connors 233
    3. Andre Agassi 224
    4. Ivan Lendl 222
    5. Pete Sampras 204

    Other Stuff:

    Year-End Championships
    1. Roger Federer 6*
    2. Ivan Lendl 5
    = Pete Sampras 5
    4. Ilie Nastase 3
    = John McEnroe 3
    = Boris Becker 3

    Most Weeks at #1
    1. Roger Federer 302*
    2. Pete Sampras 286
    3. Ivan Lendl 270
    4. Jimmy Connors 268
    5. John McEnroe 170
    6. Björn Borg 109
    7. Rafael Nadal 102*
    8. Novak Djokovic 99+*
    9. Andre Agassi 101
    10. Lleyton Hewitt 80


    Consecutive Weeks at #1
    1. Roger Federer (1) 237
    2. Jimmy Connors (1) 160
    3. Ivan Lendl (1) 157
    4. Pete Sampras (1) 102
    5. Jimmy Connors (2) 84
    6. Pete Sampras (2) 82
    7. Ivan Lendl (2) 80
    8. Lleyton Hewitt (1) 75
    9. John McEnroe (1) 58
    10. Rafael Nadal (1) 56

    Year End #1
    1. Sampras 6
    2. Federer 5*
    3. Borg 4
    4. Connors 3
    = Lendl 3
    = McEnroe 3


    Highest Season Winning Percentage
    1. John McEnroe (1984) .965 82–3
    2. Jimmy Connors (1974) .959 93–4
    3. Roger Federer (2005) .953 81–4
    4. Roger Federer (2006) .948 92–5

    5. Björn Borg (1979) .933 84–6
    6. Ivan Lendl (1986) .925 74–6
    7. Roger Federer (2004) .925 74–6
    8. Ivan Lendl (1985) .923 84–7
    9. Ivan Lendl (1982) .922 106–9
    10. Björn Borg (1980) .921 70–6
    = Novak Djokovic (2011) 0.921 70-6

    Most ATP Titles
    1. Jimmy Connors 109
    2. Ivan Lendl 94
    3. Roger Federer 77*
    = John McEnroe 77
    5. Björn Borg 64
    = Pete Sampras 64
    7. Guillermo Vilas 62
    8. Andre Agassi 60
    9. = Rafael Nadal 60*
    10. Boris Becker 49

    Consecutive Match Win Streak
    1. Björn Borg 49 1978
    2. Björn Borg 48 1979–80
    3. Guillermo Vilas 46 1977
    4. Ivan Lendl 44 1981–82
    5. Novak Djokovic 43 2010–11
    6. John McEnroe 42 1984
    7. Roger Federer 41 2006–07
    8. Thomas Muster 35 1995
    = Roger Federer 35 2005
    10.Jimmy Connors 33 1974
     
    #85
  36. Mustard

    Mustard Talk Tennis Guru

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    I've long said that Nadal is a GOAT candidate, along with many other players over the decades.

    Nadal's big claims are:

    1. His excellent head-to-head leads over all his biggest rivals, and he has never trailed in them. Nadal leads Federer 21-10 (8-2 in majors), Djokovic 22-15 (8-3 in majors), Murray 13-5 (6-2 in majors).

    2. Nadal beat Federer at 3 different majors across 3 different surfaces. Nadal also overcame the big Djokovic challenge, and has now regained the advantage.

    3. Nadal's domination on clay speaks for itself. There's also his sweeps on different surfaces, Queen's Club/Wimbledon on grass in 2008, Monte Carlo/Rome/Madrid/French Open on clay in 2010, Montreal/Cincinnati/US Open on hardcourt in 2013.

    4. Nadal has Olympic gold, Davis Cup titles, and a record number of Masters Series titles.
     
    #86
  37. octogon

    octogon Semi-Pro

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    Oh, I'm not saying WTF is insignificant. I'd say it's like winning a Masters event. Looks nice on the resume and all that.

    But it' hardly essential for a player to win all Masters events, is it. I think the significance of the WTF (pretty much only on this board) has been grossly exaggerated by Fed fans for obvious reasons. it's significant...just not that significant. It's not dealbreaker when it comes to GOAT status, as some Fed fans desperately would like it to be.
     
    #87
  38. TMF

    TMF Talk Tennis Guru

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    We're not concerning about which nation has the strongest Davis Cup team, because it has nothing to do with individual sport.

    If you use the Olympic against Sampras, Borg, JMac, Lendl and co. when they weren't competing, that's weak. How about usting Laver's 62 GS against Nadal. :grin:
     
    #88
  39. TMF

    TMF Talk Tennis Guru

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    If you go to the former pro talk forum they will gladly give you a good lecture.
     
    #89
  40. Mustard

    Mustard Talk Tennis Guru

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    A lot?

    Where's Federer Monte Carlo and Rome titles? Where's Federer's Davis Cup titles? Where Federer's Olympic singles gold? Where's Federer's winning head-to-heads against Nadal and Murray?

    You don't think that these are holes? Come on. Federer is a GOAT candidate, but there's a big debate to be had. It's silly how some people act like Federer is the undisputed GOAT as if he was like Phil Taylor in darts.
     
    #90
  41. helloworld

    helloworld Hall of Fame

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    I don't understand all this talk about Greatest of All Time. Tennis was such a different sport 30-40 years ago that it is impossible to compare players from the past. It's like comparing which is better between a machine gun and a sword. In my opinion, you can be the greatest in your own era, but not all time. The conditions and equipments are too different across generations.
     
    #91
  42. Death Master

    Death Master Banned

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    excellent post general mustard.


    your last point is especially noteworthy.

    they are not talking about it now because all eyes are on the slam count/arms race.


    but they will start to talk about it once he hits 35+ masters shields.

    40 masters shields will put it into the orbit. that will be most impossible of all his records except for one:

    the French open crowns. how on earth can anyone ever get 10 RG crowns when 60,000 years of fully documented human history has only produced one nadal like athlete.

    also what about the fact that nearly 75% of nadal`s slams have come by going through roger and nole.

    both are all time greats.


    looks like federereeeeeesian missionaries better go back the drawing board.
     
    #92
  43. The_Order

    The_Order Legend

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    Federer hardly even showed up to play Davis Cup.

    Olympics have been huge in tennis, go watch your lover battle as hard as ever just to even make the final last year.

    The FACT is Olympics have mattered more during Federer's career and he has failed to win it.

    In 2010, Novak was more concerned with Davis Cup final than WTF. Same deal with Nadal in 2011.

    Keep living in your delusional world, but any player would rather have Olympic gold or Davis Cup title ahead of a WTF title.
     
    #93
  44. helloworld

    helloworld Hall of Fame

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    There's no way a player would prefer Davis Cup(team achievement) and Olympic gold(country achievement) over WTF title. Tennis has always been an individual oriented sport.
     
    #94
  45. TMF

    TMF Talk Tennis Guru

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    Federer has a gold and silver. But again, I've told you it's not fair to use Olympics against the past great players because they either didn't play and/or Olympics wasn't available.

    Davis Cup is a team sport and it's got nothing to do with individual except about the strength of each nation. If you want to include DC then the only metric you can use is the win/loss records(there's multiple surfaces too).

    Federer is not an undisputed Goat but no way Nadal is in the same league. That's like saying Serena is in the same league as Graf.
     
    #95
  46. bullfan

    bullfan Legend

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    Funny, how you picked objective over subjective there! I'm not sure that Borg is considered better than Nadal by objective or subjective fans of tennis.
     
    #96
  47. Mustard

    Mustard Talk Tennis Guru

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    It is a hole that Nadal hasn't won the World Tour Finals yet. Hopefully, he will win it soon.
     
    #97
  48. TMF

    TMF Talk Tennis Guru

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    I've already explained from the previous posts. You're selling the past players short because they didn't play in the Olympics. How do you like it if Laver fans compare his 200 titles to Nadal 60 and say Nadal is so vastly inferior? You don't like it, that's for sure.

    If you are so much into DC, then post the win/loss records for all the great players. I'm sure Federer have played a lot more matches than many players out there.
     
    #98
  49. Mustard

    Mustard Talk Tennis Guru

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    That's like saying that the Pro majors of the pre-open era don't count for anything because players in the open era didn't play them, or that Gonzales' domination of the World Pro Tours shouldn't be used because they weren't around for later generations. Does the Grand Slam Cup of the 1990s not count for anything either, like Sampras winning it twice to go with his 5 World Championships?

    The Davis Cup is a big event. Nadal has an excellent record in his matches, and has helped Spain to win 4 Davis Cup titles, 3 of which where he played in the final. Those are big achievements on Nadal's resume.

    Women's tennis is a different kettle of fish to men's tennis.
     
    #99
  50. TMF

    TMF Talk Tennis Guru

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    At least you're being fair with this post.

    Had the WTF never exist during Nadal's generation, I would never hold Sampras's 5 WTF against Nadal.
     

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