Agassi's new serve and his new strategy.

Discussion in 'General Pro Player Discussion' started by Kobble, Mar 29, 2004.

  1. Kobble

    Kobble Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2004
    Messages:
    2,365
    I have heard so many commentators say how his serve has improved since the mid to late 90's, but I am starting to disagree a little. The only serve that is noticeably better is his serve out wide. It seems to have more zip than it did years ago. His serve down the middle is slightly less in my opinion, because I remember he used to hit it 120 mph up the middle and it rarely came back. Now, he rarley goes up the T in the matches I have witnessed, and he is getting fewer easy points than he used to play. His second serve is no better than I remember in his younger days, and it is actually looking more predictable than it ever was. I remember someone writing about how Agassi has become boring and predictable off the ground, and now I am starting to see it trickle into his serve as well. IMO, he allowing his results to be a crapshoot between himself, Federer, Safin, Roddick, Hewitt, and the rest of the dominant baseliners. I am an Agassi fan, but I almost do not care to see him play anymore because of his new style. It reminds me of a match between him and Tarango many years ago. The whole time Tarango was just playing percentage tennis, and the commentators were saying that he needs to take some chances and pull the trigger on some shots. Tarango never took any chances and lost a boring match something like 4 and 3. The person who used to dictate from the baseline more than any other player is now leaving the outcome up to his opponents.The punisher has become the percentage player, and has lost his killer instinct.
     
    #1
  2. @wright

    @wright Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2004
    Messages:
    3,567
    I agree, Kobble. I hardly even want to watch Agassi play if he's not playing an interesting opponent.
     
    #2
  3. edge

    edge Banned

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2004
    Messages:
    543
    That was me saying he's one of the most boring players on tour, very different than in his long hair years. He plays high percentage, 97% crosscourt tennis. And most of his shots are placement without the old zing. Schriciphan plans like the old Agassi and is very exciting to watch.
     
    #3
  4. NoBadMojo

    NoBadMojo G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2004
    Messages:
    11,915
    Location:
    Parts unknown
    I dont remember Agassi being able to serve TBone in the 120's ever w. any consistency but maybe I am wrong. also wouldnt refer to federer as a baseliner. i think agassi has been pretty much playing his style for years..it isnt the most exciting to watch but it is pretty effective when the opponent does so much more of the running. his is the same style as it's been for years IMO. return of serve, kicker out wide, catch everything early and get the opponent on the run, and only come in when he gets a swinging volley or other sort of putaway. all IMO of course. I think he will announce his retirement at this years USOpen.
     
    #4
  5. ian mercier

    ian mercier Rookie

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2004
    Messages:
    132
    I'm not sure how far back you guys are looking, but Agassi's service motion has changed quite a bit. It's definitely more compact and doesn't use as much wasted motion. If you recall, his serve (in earlier days) would see him doubled-over more at the waist and with straight arms on both the racquet and tossing arms. I always felt like this took a little away from his ability to generate power. As far as his second serve is concerned, it was never really "great" per se, but has been effective. I remember his second running in the 80s (MPH) early on and wondered why people weren't pounding it all the time. There must be a reason. Bottom line...Agassi serves to set up a point and works it from there. He's a consummate strategist and constructs points better than anyone I've seen. It can certainly be argued that there are other players who can put together a better point based on their talent, ability or speed. Ultimately, though, it's Agassi's strategy that keeps him in the top 5 all the time (and a contender for any tournament).
     
    #5
  6. Kobble

    Kobble Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2004
    Messages:
    2,365
    Edge, I think you are right about Schriciphan. He plays very much like Agassi did years ago. I just don't see Andre hit those inside out forehands, and the run around forehand up the left side anymore. I see Paradorn do it though.

    As far as his serve goes, I didn't mean he was a big server. What I was trying to get across was that he never tries to get many free points off of his serve anymore, and I believe it is costing him in the big matches.

    Andre's game will beat most anybody outside of the top 20 on a regular basis, and he will never fall out of the top ten playing the way he does now. When he plays the guys like Federer, Safin, Ferrero, and the other big dogs he needs to have an extra gear for them. Right now he seems to be trying to out execute them from the baseline, but that is only good if you face only one of them along the way. If he plays enough of them with that conservative style, and all of them take some risks, one of them will likely topple him. We have all seen that at least one of the top guys right now are on fire at one point or another, so I can't see how he expects to win more majors when you have people like Roddick and Federer on their hot streaks when it comes time for a major. Who knows, maybe he plans to stay steady and wait for the rest to go through slumps so he can take advantage of it.
     
    #6
  7. Nosoupforyou

    Nosoupforyou Rookie

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2004
    Messages:
    246
    I think he needs to start going for his shots more, he plays great percentage tennis, but as some people have said that won't always cut it, I felt during the Federer match, had he gone for a few more shots, rather than relying on Federer to miss that he might have won it.
     
    #7
  8. NoBadMojo

    NoBadMojo G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2004
    Messages:
    11,915
    Location:
    Parts unknown
    i really dont think agassi could have played any better against fed in that match. he was really hitting the ball clean and working the points. you just dont have the time anymore to set up for those winners like he used to ..the balls are coming at him much faster these days and maybe his 33 year old eyes dont see the ball quite as early as before. often the eyes start to go before the wheels. fed is simply better than agassi IMO, and would beat him on most anyday. i think agassi has done a great job at being in condition and strategywise. he just doesnt have the firepower from the ground in comparison anymore and really cant change to a PlanB sort of game..i mean whats he gonna do, play serve/volley? plus he doesnt get so many cheap points. i think he will announce his retirement at the us open this year. it's like when rafter decided to retire...admittadly he was injured, but people were onto his serve and i dont think he was gonna win much anymore anyway..i think its the same for andre....he just doesnt have the guns anymore in todays game IMO. Edo
     
    #8
  9. PureCarlosMoyaDrive

    PureCarlosMoyaDrive Professional

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2004
    Messages:
    1,118
    Agassi is maybe the most boring player on tour right now. NOt only because of his game style, but because of the fact that everytime I turn on the tv I see him, or even if he isn't on, practically even if he isn't in the tournament, they still talk and drool about him.

    But anyways, he is the ultimate definition of percentage tennis, and that really does get boring after a while. At least a guy like Nalbandian who plays percentage tennis, runs around all over the baseline. Has a very varitous forehand, doesn't just go cross all day, has the shotmaking strategy, a vibrant presence and attitude on court, etc.

    And I'm glad to see that there on some people on the forum who will voice their outcry against Agassi with me, mainly edge and kobble, thanks guys. Where are all the agassi lovers now btw?
     
    #9
  10. Nosoupforyou

    Nosoupforyou Rookie

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2004
    Messages:
    246
    right here PCMD
     
    #10
  11. PureCarlosMoyaDrive

    PureCarlosMoyaDrive Professional

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2004
    Messages:
    1,118
    Well normally, people like me who go out against Agassi get crapped on by everyone else, but now you seem not to really care. Infact, you seem to be going more with these people.

    Also, just watched a highlight on ATP's website, the new play of the week from the Agassi-Fed match (I watched it). Fed's down break point in the 3rd, 20 shot rally in which fed hits a down the line winner to end it. Agassi hits 10 shots, every single one directionals cross-court, and he's the one doing the running too. He even had easy setups he could hit pretty well down the line, but didn't. That's way too much percent for me.
     
    #11
  12. Rabbit

    Rabbit G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2004
    Messages:
    12,577
    Location:
    at the bottom of every hill I come to
    Agassi's game has matured. He now bases his tennis on grinding out wins rather than overpowering opponents. His game has made the same transition that Jimmy Connors did. When Connors first came on tour, he blew away opponents. During his run at the Open in 89 (and before) Connors used more guile than power. He often tanked a set just to get his second wind.

    Agassi is in much better physical condition than Connors at the same age. Agassi would rather make his opponents feel his game than over power them. He can still hit the big, big, bigger, biggest forehand, but why do it? Why pull the trigger 80% of the time and get 30% of them to win? Why not play the percentages and wear your opponents down. That does two things, first it wins matches, and second, it puts something in their minds. Last time I played Agassi, he wore me out. They feel his game more than his power. Agassi controls the center of the court and runs his opponents side to side. Brad Gilbert changed Agassi's game to base it on 6-8 hit points (BTW that's a quote from Gilbert). This also changed Agassi's mindset. He was no longer interested in winning points with flash, he would rather lose a point, a game, or even a set if it meant that his opponent was fading. In other words, he's in the match for the long haul.

    Substance over style, guys. I enjoy watching smart tennis, and right now, the two smartest guys on court are Agassi and Haas.
     
    #12
  13. @wright

    @wright Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2004
    Messages:
    3,567
    When Agassi lost the Mullet, he forgot how to live dangerously. All business and no party makes for a boring player.
     
    #13
  14. PureCarlosMoyaDrive

    PureCarlosMoyaDrive Professional

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2004
    Messages:
    1,118
    Rabbit, how do you know that Agassi can hit the "biggest forehand in tennis"? Because I completely disagree. I don't think he can go near to what Moya can constantly do with his forehand. He can't rip flat nearly as well as El Aynaoui could last year, and he can't rip it as hard as Gonzo. If he can like you say he can, then show it to me please. And also, why doesn't he pull the trigger against those players who are taking him out? When he's playing Federer, why keep playing a losing game? Why not try something new, try to rip him off the court? Or is he that one-dimensional?
     
    #14
  15. Brent Pederson

    Brent Pederson Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2004
    Messages:
    464
    When Agassi first came on the tour, he could hit the groundies harder than anyone else. Now there are lots of players on the tour who can hit them just as hard if not harder. He has never had a huge serve either, so Agassi has had to get smarter to stay effective out there, and part of this has been his strategy to make the other guy run a marathon to beat him.

    I've seen him purposely play points that he could easily win with an outright winner along the way, where, instead, he will string the other player along, make him stretch out, hit one more ball, make the guy run end to end to end, over and over, while Andre stands in the middle of the court and controls the point. Sometimes the other guy hits a winner along the way and wins the point. Andre doesn't care. He knows that if he can make the other guy play enough points that way, eventually, he'll run out of gas and that will be that.

    This may be boring to you, but I assure you, winning matches is never boring to him...
     
    #15
  16. Nosoupforyou

    Nosoupforyou Rookie

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2004
    Messages:
    246
    I'm not crapping on you as you put it because I would not sink to your level of throwing petty insults at players who have accomplished so much. You complain that Agassi gets to many easy draws, he plays a hell of alot more talented players than Carlos Moya, you say he plays too much percentage tennis, which may be true, but he can still whack the ball harder than alot of players when he wants to, you say its time for him to retire when he has made the semifinals of his last two grandslams, etc
     
    #16
  17. strife726

    strife726 Rookie

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2004
    Messages:
    284
    Edge if you really thought Agassi was boring, you wouldn't even bother to post about him. You post in every topic Agassi related. Love or hate him, they all can't stop from talking about him.
     
    #17
  18. ohplease

    ohplease Professional

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2004
    Messages:
    1,172
    I agree with Rabbit. AA is simply wiser nowadays. And frankly, his results show it.

    Don't believe me? How many Slams did AA win before he got wise? One, maybe two - and that's for a man among the most talented hand-eye athletes on the planet. How many slams have the supposedly big forehands won? Moya's got one, Gonzo's got ZERO. How about other "shot makers?" Arazi = ZERO. Pioline = ZERO. Leconte = ZERO. Flipper = ZERO. Bad days? No. Bad game.

    I think the appeal simply falls between people who've learned to appreciate the craft of point construction vs. raw shot making. The latter looks good to the untrained eye. The former wins.

    Personally, when I run into or watch players who mindlessly bang, I tend to think they don't have confidence in their ability to hang with the other guy. That's why it's called "gambling." Even at the pro level, most players aren't good enough to simply overwhelm with talent. At the rec level? Forget about it. Show me a hacker level "shot maker" and I'll show you someone who doesn't win very often. AA is all about the confidence to be the sheriff, to be the last man standing, and that's among a field full of players with world-class weapons.

    The fact that even against players like FedEx, AA doesn't freak out and try to overhit - that's the sheriff right there. That's somebody openly dissing his opponent because he doesn't think you've got enough game to make him uncomfortable.

    Y'all can keep your style. The screaming forehand is still worth only one point.
     
    #18
  19. jayserinos99

    jayserinos99 Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2004
    Messages:
    2,888
    :lol: :lol: :lol:
     
    #19
  20. sarpmas

    sarpmas Rookie

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2004
    Messages:
    229
    Although AA's percentage tennis has served him well, I do agree that he should go for his shots more especially against top 10 players. Practically all the top players are physically as strong, if not stronger than AA. AA may be able to go deep into the tournaments with his almost methodical and routine groundies, but his path to victory almost always get blocked if he's facing those top echelon players like Fed, Ferrero etc. in the later rounds, because these players can hit winners on the run almost from anywhere in the court.

    Also, almost in all AA's interviews, he was asked what kept him going at the age of 34, and his reply always something like 'he wanted to push himself to get better, he believed he can win if he plays his best tennis', but what puzzles me is how can he get better if he continues to play percentage tennis? Granted there's not much he needs to improve, strokewise (except S&V perhaps), because his strokes are considered a benchmark for all aspiring tennis players. Still, I believed if AA seriously meant to get better, he should take more risks like his younger days and go for his shots.

    IMO, simply wearing out his opponents till they make mistakes is not a really good strategy for AA, at this stage of his career, especially against top players.
     
    #20
  21. Phil

    Phil Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2004
    Messages:
    3,877
    Location:
    In a tent, along the Silk Road
    Although he made some spectacular shots in his younger days, AA didn't WIN all that many tournaments. So why would that playing style bring him any more success now than it did back then? He's got to continue to play the game that brought him a Hall of Fame career. He's not going to abandon the formula that won him so many titles.

    Having said that, though, it's not too exciting WATCHING him play these days. Neither is it exciting watching Mark Philippousis spray 50 unforced errors all over the place. There's a happy medium for me between machine-like %age tennis and on-the-fly pure and inconsistant shotmaking.
     
    #21
  22. The Franchise

    The Franchise Rookie

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2004
    Messages:
    101
    Go Agassi Go...Go Agassi Go!
     
    #22
  23. DaveGrable

    DaveGrable New User

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2004
    Messages:
    56
    >>>Schriciphan plans like the old Agassi and is very exciting to watch.<<<

    Uh, hmmm. Pan Boy is ranked #20. Agassi is ranked #3 at age 34.
     
    #23
  24. sarpmas

    sarpmas Rookie

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2004
    Messages:
    229
    I agree, if it ain't broke, why fix it. My only concern is the type of percentage tennis that AA is playing now may not be good enough against top players. If you look at AA's past few tournament results, he always lose out to a top opponent on a hot streak deep into the tournament by a tight scoreline. IMO, part of the reason is because his safe and consistent play is giving his opponent a 2nd chance. Instead of finishing off those rallies that he's in control, he's letting his opponent off the hook by allowing him one more shot. Against top guys, this may backfire against AA.

    Having said that, I certainly don't mind AA serving me a plate of crows by winning the Nasdaq 100!
     
    #24
  25. Hyperstate

    Hyperstate Rookie

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2004
    Messages:
    125
    Agree with Rabbit and ohplease.

    Percentage tennis by Wilander is boring but not AA because of the way he moves his opponents about. That's a class act. By comparison, I just saw Calleri blasting his shots against Todd Reid... screaming FHs and BHs and shriekingly boring brute unforced errors. Two ends of the spectrum, constructing a point and flashing a much riskier winner. I dig Moya's FH, but only FedEx has got the balance right :wink: which makes him such an interesting player to watch.

    However, having said all that, when Plan A fails against the big players, I would like to see AA be more aggressive/inventive. I guess the original poster feels that AA has lost that X factor, something which I'm still mull(ett)ing about.
     
    #25
  26. AA

    AA New User

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2004
    Messages:
    12
    Yes, Agassi is really the most boring player on tour. Just look at all the empty seats in the stands, when he plays. People really dont care for his game....Also the TV ratings when he plays, is sooooo low....

    Yes, deffinately the most boring player on tour.

    Daniel
     
    #26
  27. Verbal_Kint

    Verbal_Kint Rookie

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2004
    Messages:
    366
    What I think everybody who's critical of Agassi means is that he ONLY plays safe nowadays. Against someone like Federer sending him left-right-left-right-left-right with 70% of full power shots just isn't gonna work. If he's such a great strategist he should be able to change something. IMO Andre has toned it down a little too much, which may have cost him a few slams.

    Marnix
     
    #27
  28. ucd_ace

    ucd_ace Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2004
    Messages:
    608
    I think that Agassi is now driving himself again. Last year was great for Agassi; he played through all of his matches and won the a slam and everything. This year, it seems to me that Agassi is emotionally upset by Roger Federer. I think this is the first time since Sampras was in his prime where he knows that he can play his best tennis and still lose the match. Now it's obvious to me that for the first time in the last couple of years that Agassi has aimed to take his game up a level. After losing to Federer at IW, it looked like he was emotionally upset that there is someone out there that's beat him three times in the last three matches and doesn't seem to be able to come up with a way to beat him.
     
    #28
  29. norcal

    norcal Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2004
    Messages:
    1,837
    Andre bored Mirnyi into submission last night.
     
    #29
  30. chad shaver

    chad shaver Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2004
    Messages:
    416
    Yeah, those serve return winners really bored him to death....
     
    #30
  31. edge

    edge Banned

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2004
    Messages:
    543
    Look, I didn't say his game is not effective, I just said it was BORING. Wilander was very effective and he was VERY BORING. It's sad for Agassi, his nemesis, Sampras, finally retires but Federer has matured to take his lunch away! Now can ANYBODY here tell me Agassi is a more exciting player than Federer? Anybody? I don't think so. Federer knows Agassi will hit 97% of his shot crooscourt so he waits for it and routinely smacks it down the line with his even bigger groundies.
     
    #31
  32. chad shaver

    chad shaver Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2004
    Messages:
    416
    What's funny to me is that everyone "bashes" the "BBB"'s (aka Boring Baseline Bashers), saying that they don't construct points, just try to hit winners, etc.... Agassi's critics used to say that he tried for too much, and that if he would just play 80% of his power, he would win soooo many more matches.

    Now, Agassi plays the percentages, constructs points, and even tries to work his way to net (Federer match, for example). Now that Agassi has started to play that way, everyone wants him to either go for more, retire, or die a painful death.

    Back to Agassi's service motion. The most noticeable difference is his service stance, which is much more narrow, IMO.

    Anyway, time to go back to work.
     
    #32
  33. Brian10s

    Brian10s New User

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2004
    Messages:
    14
    I don't find Agassi's style to be boring at all, although I think he suffers somewhat on that count with ESPN's overexposure. It is remarkable to see how early he strikes the ball compared to the normal baseliner. As for his serve, I also feel his motion is more compact, and he delivers it more like a pitcher with different speeds and placements. Anyway, I am a new poster and have enjoyed reading everyone's opinions and insights.
     
    #33
  34. Verbal_Kint

    Verbal_Kint Rookie

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2004
    Messages:
    366
    I'm NOT saying it's bad, I'm saying it's not as much fun to watch. It also won't win him matches against someone who's really 'on'. Andre seems to have lost the surprise element. If he's unable to surprise us viewers, just imagine how his plays look to the pro's. Most of them aren't good enough to beat him of course, but someone like Federer will routinely do that.

    Marnix
     
    #34
  35. Camilio Pascual

    Camilio Pascual Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2004
    Messages:
    1,825
    Agassi is a more exciting player than Federer. Especially when running and grinding down his opponents with intelligent percentage play. I like seeing him pick apart flaws and weaknesses in others' games.
     
    #35
  36. Japanese Maple

    Japanese Maple Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2004
    Messages:
    725
    I am sure AA will retire this year after the U.S. Open-he will not
    win another Grand Slam this year, especially since he was not able
    to steal a Slam in Australia. Although his endurance is excellent, he
    has lost considerable quickness and age makes it more and more
    difficult to recover between five set Grand Slam matches. His main
    strategy obviously is to make the opponent do all the running and
    take their legs out, then steam roll them-this works against most
    opponents and is particularly effective in long five set matches.
    Last year at I believe the Nasdaq-Miami, he did this to El Aynaoui
    who was in such fantastic shape that he played Roddick in
    Australia 21-19 fifth set. Sampras and Federer have such fire
    power that they don't allow Agassi to jerk them around the court-
    they look to slam the door shut early in the rally. Also,Agassi
    gets very few easy points with his serve and that really hurts him
    against the big boys. Against Federer, in his last match in Indian
    Wells he actually tried to hit out much more and go for riskier
    shots and he still lost-he doesn't do well because the balls fly in
    the desert. He likes the heavy humidity and heat in Miami because
    the balls are slower and he can really grind down the opponents.
    I love watching Agassi, particularly when his opponents are doing
    all the running and getting worked over big time with high percentage tennis. Federer is the most talented player I have
    seen in the last twenty years and could seriously go after Sampras
    grand slam record-what a joy to watch!
     
    #36
  37. Rabbit

    Rabbit G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2004
    Messages:
    12,577
    Location:
    at the bottom of every hill I come to
    At the Masters in Singapore, Agassi was playing Ferrero. Both men were at the baseline involved in a rally. Agassi had a flashback apparently and whaled on a ball. He hit it so hard that Ferrero had to attempt to play it between his legs. Now, both men are at the baseline, and Ferrero ain't exactly slow, as a matter of fact, he's very quick and nimble. Point being that Agassi hit a forehand so hard that Ferrero had no time to react. Show me another player who can do that, no show me another player who's done that.

    Why doesn't he do it all the time? Mainly because he doesn't have to. As I said before, Agassi invests time in his matches now so that his opponents will remember next time how bad he hurt them, gamewise, scorewise and physically. I've seen Moya's forehand and while a great one, he doesn't hit everything as hard as he can, no one does. He puts a ton of top on everything, more of a loopy top. Agassi drives the ball with tight spin.

    As for why Agassi doesn't play Federer differently, why should he? First, the last three I've seen have gone the distance, and Agassi just caught some bad breaks, or got outplayed on one or two key points. Secondly, you dance with the one that brung you. And lastly, sometimes you come up against someone who just can't be beat. Federer is playing like a man possessed right now. He had a bad match against Nadal, but give me a break. Why should Agassi completely change his strategy when he's more than competitive with the number one player in the world?

    I stand by my statement. Agassi can hit the ball as hard as anyone in the game now or before, the difference between Agassi and the other big hitters is that Agassi tempers his power with smarts.
     
    #37
  38. AA

    AA New User

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2004
    Messages:
    12
    Jim Courier has stated earlier, that not only does Agassi have the best baseline game ever, but he also have the hardest strokes in tennis. Its just that he dont show it as often, as he dont need to. He sets op the points so good, so he either makes his opponent to make a mistake, or Agassi has a easy shot for a winner.
     
    #38
  39. chad shaver

    chad shaver Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2004
    Messages:
    416
    Rabbit,

    I remember that shot. It was absolutely amazing to see.

    Do you, by chance, remember the Sergi Bruguera/Sampras match during the '94 year end championships where Bruguera decided to actually play for a set? He hit a forehand return crosscourt that you could barely even see....
     
    #39
  40. Rabbit

    Rabbit G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2004
    Messages:
    12,577
    Location:
    at the bottom of every hill I come to
    I remember the match, vaguely, especially the part about SB trying for a set. All I can say is that desperate times call for desperate measures.
     
    #40
  41. chad shaver

    chad shaver Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2004
    Messages:
    416
    He actually won that set, and looked good doing it. Then he went to Hell in a handbasket.
     
    #41
  42. joe sch

    joe sch Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2004
    Messages:
    4,745
    Location:
    Hotel CA
    I agree with Rabbit that Agassi can hit the ball as hard as any current or past player. Power is generated by speed, strenght & size. Andre is probably stronger than most all of the players from his powerlifting workouts over many years. He has some of the fastest reaction time and still very impressive speed. Vintage Agassi is really a treat to watch since he uses more tennis smarts and percentage angles to defeat his opponents, rather than trying to out hit them. I hope he plays a few more years to prove he can stay at the top and play with anybody, year after year. I wish him good luck since that is what it takes to win slams and this is what it will take to keep Andre playing.
     
    #42
  43. edge

    edge Banned

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2004
    Messages:
    543
    Well your smart, powerful player just lost to Calleri.
     
    #43
  44. Nosoupforyou

    Nosoupforyou Rookie

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2004
    Messages:
    246
    In winning ugly Gilber compared Agassi a bit to Lendl, he was saying how they were both whaled on the ball, but the difference was that Agassi was taking the ball so much earlier, hence he does not need to hit the ball as hard to get the ball back as quickly
     
    #44
  45. Rabbit

    Rabbit G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2004
    Messages:
    12,577
    Location:
    at the bottom of every hill I come to
    edge-dude, are you sure you want to go there? If we're going to extrapolate one match into an entire career, we can pretty much trash anybody's career.

    Like him or not, you have to give the devil his due. Agassi is playing smart tennis and he knocks the cover off the ball. Now, he may not play to your liking, but trust me on this, I'd trade all my strokes for any one of his.
     
    #45
  46. ohplease

    ohplease Professional

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2004
    Messages:
    1,172
    And FedEx lost to Nadal, Henman to someone named Melzer, and Hewitt to Pavel. Guess they should all retire, too.

    You're looking at a quarterfinal group of Coria, Benneteau, Grosjean, Keifer, Nadal, Gonzo, Pavel, and Todd Martin. No offense to any of those dudes, but I'd say this week's theme is more about EVERYBODY losing early (back-to-back super 9's maybe?) instead of how AA is old and should hang it up.

    Or are Coria/Keifer/Pavel/Martin/Nadal considered exciting, risk taking shot-makers now?
     
    #46
  47. Kobble

    Kobble Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2004
    Messages:
    2,365
    It is kind of ironic that I bring up the fact that a former swing for the fences player is now much more conservative, and now a player like Gonzo has got a chance to run the table in the same tournament Agassi gets beat in. I also said Andre could routinely beat most guys outside of the top 20, and the guy who takes him out is seeded 20th. I feel like I have sabotaged him.

    Do you ever wonder if he is taking it easy so he can get a 2nd title at the French? His new grindout game would be well suited for the red clay if his body can holdup. I was just thinking that the winners Federer and others guys are hitting to finish off the points will be much tougher to do on clay. Maybe he is smarter than we think. His result at the French should give us a good measurement of what Andre has left.
     
    #47
  48. edge

    edge Banned

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2004
    Messages:
    543
    Look, Agasssi will never win another Slam. He has no chance in winning the French. This will be his last U.S. Open. Get use to it. Coria will start beating him on hardcourt. That's the way this cruel sport is. Sampras knew when to retire, Agassi will know by September. yes, Rabbit you will trade your strokes for Agassi's, but then again, that's not really saying much does it? You are an amateur, he's in the world elite. For a guy like Agaassi, he will not like losing because he has beem a winnier for so long. You will see guys like Nalbandian and Roddick beating him this summer and he will not like that at all. It's like when Borg lost to Brian Goottfried during hos comeback. He said he couldn't take losing to someone that he use to beat routinely.
     
    #48
  49. riaz10spro

    riaz10spro Guest

    Remember guys, Agassi has tried playing BIG TIME (flashy shots from all over the court) tennis and it didn't work for him, he lost more than he won to all sorts of players. Now his game has evolved into playing the percentages and that may get boring to watch but I tell you something, winning never gets boring!
    I'd like to see all these new flashy players playing at 33 and staying with the young bucks like AA is doing right now. I'm not a big AA fan(I actually wrote him off a few years back) but you gotta give him some props for still punching in the clock day in day out!
    I absolutely love Federer but I respect AA for his work ethic and dedication to a sport which has given him everything.
    Boring is watching someone go for all kinds of shots and missing more than he makes, those players will do great when they get to the Seniors Tour!
     
    #49
  50. Rabbit

    Rabbit G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2004
    Messages:
    12,577
    Location:
    at the bottom of every hill I come to
    It would seem that Agassi has been down this road before. Seems a few years ago, he was written off as not being able to compete for Slams. He got beat by everybody on tour, was reduced to playing Challengers in Vegas.

    I think the guy can win the Open or the Aussie. The more he's told he should retire the more harder he'll work. He's already said he's playing next year, so the retirement talk is a little premature.

    What I really don't get is calling Agassi a has been and a loser. HE'S 4 IN THE WORLD right now. In case that fact eludes any of you, it means that there are only 3 guys in the world who are ranked higher than he is. Which also means that all of the guys being touted as better than Agassi don't have the results to back it up. Can the guy have an off week or two out of 52? I mean come on, he doesn't win tournaments he enters and all of a sudden he needs to quit. Vince Speadea lost 51 matches in a row a year or two ago. Lleyton Hewitt has been on a slide now for going on two seasons. Where is the cry for them to leave the game?

    Agassi is good, no great for the game of tennis. He puts more butts in the stands than anybody else in the sport. He has more charisma in his little finger than half the guys on tour. You want to really kill tennis? Run Agassi out of the sport and see what happens. He's the last of a breed, fellas and we better enjoy him while he's around. Now saying his game is boring is one thing, but saying he needs to retire is another. I always found Lendl's game boring, but it was the perfect foil for other guys' games. So I enjoyed the dynamic. Problem today is everybody plays the same game.

    I think Mark Twain is appropriate here "The reports of my demise are a little premature."
     
    #50

Share This Page