All eyes are now on Andy Murray...whose side will he be on???

Discussion in 'General Pro Player Discussion' started by Mike Sams, Dec 28, 2012.

  1. Mike Sams

    Mike Sams Legend

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2011
    Messages:
    5,270
    For the AO, neither Djoker nor Federer is scared of #4 David Ferrer. He'll be smashed by either of them in straights. #3 Murray is the man to be feared.
    I cannot see Federer going through Murray and Djokovic back to back. But I can see Djokovic going through Murray and Federer back to back.
     
    #1
  2. Cup8489

    Cup8489 Legend

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2007
    Messages:
    9,267
    Location:
    Silvis, IL
    I want Muzza on Djoke's side.
     
    #2
  3. 90's Clay

    90's Clay Legend

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2012
    Messages:
    7,525
    Can't see anyone taking Murray out besides Nole. So Andy's best bet is to stear clear of Nole until the finals and hope he loses.
     
    #3
  4. pringles

    pringles Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2011
    Messages:
    460
    This is what I feel the percentages are at the moment (for the AO):

    Federer vs Murray - 60/40 Federer
    Federer vs Djokovic 75/25 Djokovic
    Djokovic vs Murray 55/45 Djokovic
     
    #4
  5. Homeboy Hotel

    Homeboy Hotel Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2011
    Messages:
    2,781
    Location:
    London
    Ferrer won't make the SF if Federer/Berdych/Ferrer are all on one side.

    I think Berdych could take out Ferrer and then possibly Federer (all matches QF onwards played at night, similar conditions to USO night)

    Who'da called it? Berdych in another slam final. Berdych vs Djokovic/Murray
     
    #5
  6. underground

    underground Legend

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2012
    Messages:
    6,974
    I strongly believe that Murray will land on Djoker's half and Federer will reach the AO final regardless of result. However the draws are always rigged so you may never know, the officials might want Federer to be in the final desperately though seeing how they can't have Djokodal final.
     
    #6
  7. monfed

    monfed Guest

    As per usual Murray would be put on Fed's side,I mean Fed didn't even get an easy draw in the USO when he deserved one since he was #1, that's how bad the big shots in the ATP want Fed out of slam contention. Maybe Tennis Australia too *Rod Laver hint hint*

    Though there's a high probability that he might be taken out by one of the big hitters like Tberd/JMDP in the QFs. But yea Fed's gonna get a stinker of a draw with Murray in the semis and JMDP/Berdych in the QFs.
     
    #7
  8. veroniquem

    veroniquem Bionic Poster

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2008
    Messages:
    31,084
    Location:
    New York

    Djoko has already gone through Fed and Murray back to back (in 2011)
     
    #8
  9. Ray Mercer

    Ray Mercer Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2009
    Messages:
    793
    Djokovic is the heavy favorite for this tournament with the snail slow court speed. We need Djokovic to play Murray in the semi to see a decent final.
     
    #9
  10. Mainad

    Mainad G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2011
    Messages:
    13,680
    Location:
    Manchester, UK.
    You really think having to play the likes of Donald Young, Bjorn Phau, Fernando Verdasco and then getting a walkover against Mardy Fish before meeting Tomas Berdych (whom he had already beaten in the final of Madrid) was a tough draw for Federer?? :confused:
     
    #10
  11. monfed

    monfed Guest

    Yes I really think having to play Fish-Berdych-Murray-Djokovic is the hardest possible draw he could've got on the Hardcourts of USO. It's another thing Fish pulled out but I can't believe you're mentioning Rounds 1,2,3 as evidence that Fed had it easy, cmon stop kidding. :lol:

    And Tomas Berdych has Fed's number in the slams, the guy can basically hit him off the court and Fed can't do anything to stop it.
     
    #11
  12. veroniquem

    veroniquem Bionic Poster

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2008
    Messages:
    31,084
    Location:
    New York
    We were deprived of the Fed/Murray semi clash at USO. I want to see it at AO. I'm sure Djoko would like to see it too :)
     
    #12
  13. nikdom

    nikdom Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2009
    Messages:
    4,725
    Location:
    Tennisville
    I would hope his own!
     
    #13
  14. veroniquem

    veroniquem Bionic Poster

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2008
    Messages:
    31,084
    Location:
    New York
    I can't believe Fed fans are whining in advance about the draw when Djoko's draws at the last 2 AO have been some of the toughest in open era (ie 3 top 5 players to beat in 2012 and 3 top 6 players in 2011. )
     
    #14
  15. Hitman

    Hitman G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    May 2, 2010
    Messages:
    12,150
    I think Andy is going to be full of confidence going into AO. He has been battling Djokovic hard this part year, and their rivalry has really taken centre stage. In fact it was their AO semi that was prelude of things to come, Murray played so solidly in that match and put on a epic battle - One of my favs, and that third set was one of the most brutal sets of tennis I have seen.

    I do think he would want to avoid the Joker, as would anyone else on this surface. Novak is the man to beat, and is the man in Melbourne until proven otherwise. At his best, he mows down the draw ala 2011, even at lower level, he beats his opponents who are battling their hardest against him and outlasts them ala 2012.

    Federer is the one who need the luck of the draw, since I think he is most vulnerable to a quarter final upset than the other two. Berdych is probably the guy he would want in Joker's quarter as well Murray in the other half.
     
    #15
  16. Towser83

    Towser83 Legend

    Joined:
    May 17, 2011
    Messages:
    9,571
    Berdych has become a dangerous player for Fed... But yeah, well he would have had to play Murray in the semis, so you're right he got a draw full of useless mugs.

    ... oh no I didn't! :twisted:
     
    #16
  17. jokinla

    jokinla Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2011
    Messages:
    2,705
    You mean like he did last summer at Wimbledon.
     
    #17
  18. Mainad

    Mainad G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2011
    Messages:
    13,680
    Location:
    Manchester, UK.
    Well, it's apparent Berdych has become a dangerous player for Fed NOW! Prior to this year's USO, he was 4-1 v Berdych in Slams and 11-4 overall. And as you point out, he would have then only had to play Murray, one of his favourite pigeons in Slam matches and then play Djoko whom he had already beaten at Wimbledon and should have beaten at the 2 previous USOs! ;)
     
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2012
    #18
  19. zagor

    zagor Talk Tennis Guru

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2007
    Messages:
    26,545
    Location:
    Weak era
    Aside from Fish's withdrawal the first 3-4 rounds were standard opponents for a top player in a slam, nothing out of the ordinary.

    However the toughest possible QF opponent for Fed is Berdych and Murray is by far the harder SF opponent compared to Ferrer so yes I'd say Fed had a tough draw at USO this year, the toughest possible for him given the current situation.

    For the big 4 it's far more important who they meet in QF and SF than the first 4 rounds anyway so given Nadal's withdrawal on which half Murray lands is obviously going to be a big factor.

    That said, more of a factor for Fed IMO because I believe Novak could beat Murray and Fed back-to-back to win AO but I don't think it's feasible for Fed to beat Murray and Novak back-to-back to win AO.
     
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2012
    #19
  20. zagor

    zagor Talk Tennis Guru

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2007
    Messages:
    26,545
    Location:
    Weak era
    Berdych has been a dangerous opponent for Fed ever since 2010 and while Murray may be Fed's pigeon in slam matches, Ferrer is his pigeon anywhere, anytime :)
     
    #20
  21. Mainad

    Mainad G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2011
    Messages:
    13,680
    Location:
    Manchester, UK.
    Yes, but he was never going to get to play Ferrer, was he? We all knew Ferrer was never getting past Djokovic! :)
     
    #21
  22. Towser83

    Towser83 Legend

    Joined:
    May 17, 2011
    Messages:
    9,571
    So we agree that Murray is useless? Ok cool. I suppose getting Ferrer was the harder semi final?

    We all know that's not what you believe, but you jokingly concur with the troll point of view if it suits you. You know that my post calling murray useless what not serious, but you jokingly agree with me so you don't have to retract the statement about Fed's weak draw. Just like you get annoyed with anyone using wind as an excuse for Murray's US Open win, but then jokingly blame wind for his defeat in 2009 IW so that you don't actually have to give a serious opinon about whether wind is or isn't an excuse for losing.


    Murray was the tougher draw, Federer got him in his half. You know this is what I mean, but you just avoid the actual point.

    And you might remember that Federer was 2 sets to 0 down vs Berdych at the AO 2009. Since and including that match he's played him 3 times at slam, lost 2 and had to come back from 2 sets down in the other. The last time he had a comfortable slam match vs him was 2007.
     
    #22
  23. zagor

    zagor Talk Tennis Guru

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2007
    Messages:
    26,545
    Location:
    Weak era
    Well yes but I was comparing Ferrer to Murray regarding how difficult of a SF opponent they are for Fed, it's obvious that Ferrer is the weaker link here, both Fed and Novak would prefer him to Murray in any slam except maybe FO (for Novak, because Ferrer can trouble him on clay).

    In short, as things stand right now the toughness of Fed's draw depends on whether he'll:

    -Draw Berdych in QF
    -Draw Murray in SF

    Not on his opponents in the first 4 rounds, if he's in decent form he'll cruise (relatively speaking) regardless.
     
    #23
  24. zagor

    zagor Talk Tennis Guru

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2007
    Messages:
    26,545
    Location:
    Weak era
    Actually it was 2008 AO, was a pretty routine win.
     
    #24
  25. Flash O'Groove

    Flash O'Groove Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    May 28, 2012
    Messages:
    2,156
    Del Potro is also a threat for Fed in a QF (actually he is a threat for everyone, but he did beat Fed back to back in Basel and WTF). He is also more consistent than Berdych, who could also be in a day off (altough he was solid both in 2011 and 2012). Tsonga did have good result in Australia too, but he isn't consistent here.

    The happy one will have Tipsarevic in QF and Ferrer in SF. Final will be tough in any case.
     
    #25
  26. Mainad

    Mainad G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2011
    Messages:
    13,680
    Location:
    Manchester, UK.
    Oh lighten up Towser. I credit you with being one of the few posters on here with a sense of humour and an ability to banter. Seems you're not in the mood for this one.;)

    Anyway, joking apart, I genuinely don't think Federer had a particularly tough draw at this year's USO. The early rounds were indeed a joke but then that's pretty much the same for all the top seeds. The later rounds are usually always going to get tougher for everybody. Berdych may have proved a tricky player for Fed in recent years but he normally finds a way to get past him, 2010 Wimby being a rare exception. If anything, Berdych is an even trickier player for Murray to handle while it is an undeniable fact that Fed has been able to handle Murray successfully in all their previous Slam encounters and, as I said, he had already beaten Djokovic at Wimbledon and had a good record against him at the USO even if he did choke away chances to beat him in their last 2 encounters there. Beating him would, of course, have been tough but it was doable for him IMO.
     
    #26
  27. zagor

    zagor Talk Tennis Guru

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2007
    Messages:
    26,545
    Location:
    Weak era
    On AO surface Berdman is a far bigger threat than Delpo to Fed, that's not to say Delpo doesn't have a chance but I'd favour Fed in that potential match by a solid margin, not so against Berdman (whom I'd favour against Fed actually, should they meet in QF).
     
    #27
  28. zagor

    zagor Talk Tennis Guru

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2007
    Messages:
    26,545
    Location:
    Weak era
    Come on now, what would have been a tougher QF & SF combo for Fed in 2012 USO?

    Delpo, Tsonga or Janko certainly aren't tougher (or as tough actually) propositions for Fed in a slam QF and Murray is a far tougher potential SF opponent than Ferrer, David is Fed's ultimate pigeon on top of the fact that Murray is a plain better overall player.
     
    #28
  29. Hitman

    Hitman G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    May 2, 2010
    Messages:
    12,150
    This is exactly how I feel. Federer has good memories of facing Del Potro here, and I think this is the one place where the haunting memories of USO 09 don't really effect him. He feels very confident on this surface against Del Potro, the results show.

    Berdych though has become a thorn, and Federer does get unhinged against him. He has ended Federer's semi streaks at both Wimbledon and USO already.
     
    #29
  30. zagor

    zagor Talk Tennis Guru

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2007
    Messages:
    26,545
    Location:
    Weak era
    Agree, last time Fed played against Berdman at AO, he was down 2-0 in sets and barely clawed his way back to victory, Berdych then backed up that with wins at Wimbledon and USO (along with wins in several masters, I can't remember now off the top of my head) but each time Fed faced Delpo at AO he beat him pretty easily, Delpo did beat Fed the last two times they played but both of those wins were indoors, a different ballgame compared to slow outdoor HC.

    To put it in numbers, if they meet in AO QF I'd probably give Berdych 55-45 or even 60-40 odds to beat Fed while I'd give Fed 70-30 odds to beat Delpo (should they meet in QF obviously).
     
    #30
  31. Hitman

    Hitman G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    May 2, 2010
    Messages:
    12,150
    On this surface, Federer can really exploit the limitations in Del Potro's movement, and really uses the surface as a weapon against him. I feel when they play anywhere else, Roger is more on edge, and thinks more about that USO 09 match more, which will always be with him. At AO, he seems to relax and is always trying to use that court to hurt to hurt Del Potro andpast results give him renewed confidence.

    Regarding Berdych, they had a competitive match in Madrid also, which went the distance. A good win for Roger in the end. I agree with your odds.
     
    #31
  32. Towser83

    Towser83 Legend

    Joined:
    May 17, 2011
    Messages:
    9,571
    well I apologise for being too serious, must be the mood of today.. ;)

    I don't think Berdych/Murray/Djokovic is an easy draw for Federer. Like I said at the AO in 2009 Berdych was 2 sets to 0 up on Federer. He then won the next slam meeting and gave Federer loads of trouble in 3 set matches as well, getting a few wins. There was plenty of evidence that Federer could lose to Berdych - his last comfortable win over him in a slam was 2008 (Zagor corrected me). And Berdych beat Fed in the olympics in 2004 after which Fed gave him a lot of praise, and it seems to me it's his consistancy that's the problem. when he's on he can geive Federer hell. You are right that he has given Murray lots of problems too, credit to Murray - he has turned this around this year. Not to make excuses but I feel in windy conditions Fed would have beaten Berdych easily as it stops Berdych from hitting to his maximum potential. Murray and Federer are better players than Berdych though and can adapt much beter.

    If Federer had got through beating Berdych, Murray was going to be very confident after the olympic win, beating both Federer and Djokovic and as it turns out he was the man to beat at the USO.
     
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2012
    #32
  33. Xizel

    Xizel Professional

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2011
    Messages:
    1,404
    Keep Berdych and Delpo off Fed and it'll be OK.
     
    #33
  34. smoledman

    smoledman Legend

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2012
    Messages:
    5,474
    Location:
    USA
    This. People should pay attention to which quarter Del Potro lands.
     
    #34
  35. Steve0904

    Steve0904 G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2012
    Messages:
    11,128
    Location:
    NL, Canada
    Only thing I don't agree with in all this good debate (besides of course the relatively crazy assertion that Federer's 2012 USO draw wasn't tough) is zagor favouring Berdych over Fed however slightly. I know the history between Fed and Berdych, but I would never be able to favour Berdych over Fed at any slam, even now.
     
    #35

Share This Page