All of these players have accomplished something that Federer has not...

Discussion in 'General Pro Player Discussion' started by travlerajm, Feb 11, 2012.

  1. travlerajm

    travlerajm Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2006
    Messages:
    4,443
    Nadal, Sampras, Agassi, Courier, Chang, Becker, Safin, Johannson, Gomez, Rafter, Stich, Costa, Cash, Wilander, Gaudio...

    It's a missing element of Federer's career resume. What is it?
     
    #1
  2. OldFedIsOld

    OldFedIsOld Professional

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2011
    Messages:
    856
    Location:
    2D plane of existence
    Not getting 16 grand slams lol?
     
    #2
  3. Standstill

    Standstill Rookie

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2011
    Messages:
    147
    Davis Cup. Next year.
     
    #3
  4. FlamEnemY

    FlamEnemY Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    May 6, 2008
    Messages:
    3,555
    The only thing I can think of is having a DC title.
     
    #4
  5. travlerajm

    travlerajm Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2006
    Messages:
    4,443
    A hint: Djokovic has not done it yet either, but Federer might beat him to it...

    Edit: I have to go back an check, not sure about djok...
    Edit again: Yes, Djok has not done it yet
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2012
    #5
  6. FlamEnemY

    FlamEnemY Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    May 6, 2008
    Messages:
    3,555
    scratch that. dumb post.
     
    #6
  7. thienzsch

    thienzsch New User

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2012
    Messages:
    73
    My first guess was winning a DC doubles match, but that doesn't work
     
    #7
  8. Andres

    Andres G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2005
    Messages:
    12,540
    Location:
    Mar del Plata, Argentina
    Not DC, as Gaudio hasn't won the Cup.
     
    #8
  9. Magnus

    Magnus Legend

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2011
    Messages:
    5,172
    Mental strength and fighting spirit?

    Oh wait you also wrote Safin...

    I'll keep thinking :)
     
    #9
  10. Sid_Vicious

    Sid_Vicious G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2010
    Messages:
    11,680
    Location:
    In The City
    A brain-teaser... I like it. I am racking my brains over this so it better be something cool. :mad:
     
    #10
  11. travlerajm

    travlerajm Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2006
    Messages:
    4,443
    Del Potro has done it also...
     
    #11
  12. travlerajm

    travlerajm Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2006
    Messages:
    4,443
    Another hint: it's not a trick question. The answer is tennis related.
     
    #12
  13. RoddickAce

    RoddickAce Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2007
    Messages:
    2,472
    Retired in a match?

    Edit:Oh wait, nvm just saw the Djoker comment.
     
    #13
  14. Andres

    Andres G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2005
    Messages:
    12,540
    Location:
    Mar del Plata, Argentina
    I was thinking winning on his first Slam final, but Federer did it too. So, so far, have no idea.
     
    #14
  15. Andres

    Andres G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2005
    Messages:
    12,540
    Location:
    Mar del Plata, Argentina
    That was good, but then the OP said Djokovic hasn't done either :lol:
     
    #15
  16. RoddickAce

    RoddickAce Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2007
    Messages:
    2,472
    This is a random guess, but beating the top 2 players in a slam?
     
    #16
  17. travlerajm

    travlerajm Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2006
    Messages:
    4,443
    Big hint: Krajicek never did it...
     
    #17
  18. RoddickAce

    RoddickAce Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2007
    Messages:
    2,472
    LOL yeah, I missed that post at first. :)
     
    #18
  19. travlerajm

    travlerajm Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2006
    Messages:
    4,443
    Oops, hold on. I may have erred by including Rafter...
     
    #19
  20. kishnabe

    kishnabe G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2008
    Messages:
    17,199
    Location:
    Toronto
    ..............Hard One....
     
    #20
  21. Sid_Vicious

    Sid_Vicious G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2010
    Messages:
    11,680
    Location:
    In The City
    Won a grand slam being ranked outside the top 10?

    darn you, Rafa Nadal!
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2012
    #21
  22. oberyn

    oberyn Professional

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2006
    Messages:
    1,121
    Beaten a higher ranked/seeded player in a slam final?
     
    #22
  23. RoddickAce

    RoddickAce Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2007
    Messages:
    2,472
    Win a slam while under 20?
     
    #23
  24. Sid_Vicious

    Sid_Vicious G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2010
    Messages:
    11,680
    Location:
    In The City
    That is a good one.
     
    #24
  25. Tammo

    Tammo Banned

    Joined:
    May 23, 2011
    Messages:
    3,875
    Does it have to do with Challengers or Futures?
     
    #25
  26. travlerajm

    travlerajm Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2006
    Messages:
    4,443
    Very close... along the right lines.
     
    #26
  27. Tammo

    Tammo Banned

    Joined:
    May 23, 2011
    Messages:
    3,875
    Is it winning a junior title at a Slam?
     
    #27
  28. Nathaniel_Near

    Nathaniel_Near Talk Tennis Guru

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2009
    Messages:
    20,017
    Location:
    Relax folks, ...
    You're killing us! :twisted: --> :evil: --> :) recurring
     
    #28
  29. norbac

    norbac Legend

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2008
    Messages:
    8,577
    Beating a number one player in a Slam?

    Actually Novak did it at Wimbledon last year and Australian 08.....
     
    #29
  30. thienzsch

    thienzsch New User

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2012
    Messages:
    73
    Hint!!

    This is impossible we need more hints
     
    #30
  31. oberyn

    oberyn Professional

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2006
    Messages:
    1,121
    I thought that was it, until I remembered you'd said Djokovic hadn't done it either. Now I'm stumped.
     
    #31
  32. travlerajm

    travlerajm Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2006
    Messages:
    4,443
    Well.. We're close enough to say the answer now...
    Who was favored in the match?
     
    #32
  33. oberyn

    oberyn Professional

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2006
    Messages:
    1,121
    Beat two former slam finalists en route to winning a slam?

    Won a slam final as an underdog?
     
    #33
  34. travlerajm

    travlerajm Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2006
    Messages:
    4,443
    You were much closer before...

    Sorry. misread your last post You got it!

    It's the underdog in a slam final.
     
    #34
  35. travlerajm

    travlerajm Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2006
    Messages:
    4,443
    I started this thread because I realized that Federer's career would be viewed much more favorably if he can find a way to dig out a slam final against someone who's favored to beat him.
     
    #35
  36. Raz11

    Raz11 Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2011
    Messages:
    702
    I thought Djokovic was the underdog last year at Wimbledon.

    So far Federer has been the underdog at the french against Nadal and that is understandable.
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2012
    #36
  37. celoft

    celoft Guest


    Djoker has never won a slam final as an underdog. He was the favorite in the Wimbledon final because of the H2H in 2011 with Nadal.
     
    #37
  38. travlerajm

    travlerajm Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2006
    Messages:
    4,443
    That's why I didn't include him
     
    #38
  39. gregor.b

    gregor.b Professional

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2009
    Messages:
    1,204
    Location:
    Brisvegas
    Beaten top seed or top 2 seeds on the way to winning a major ??
     
    #39
  40. gregor.b

    gregor.b Professional

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2009
    Messages:
    1,204
    Location:
    Brisvegas
    Sorry. Procrastinated too long. I see now.
     
    #40
  41. Raz11

    Raz11 Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2011
    Messages:
    702
    Underdog is subjective tbh. The bookies had Nadal as the favorite last year so there was some substance to that claim.Djokovic had a poor lead up compared to Nadal and it was on grass which was the Djokovic's worst surface. I thought he was the underdog but I guess everyone has a different opinion.
     
    #41
  42. celoft

    celoft Guest

    I didn't. He had beaten him enough times in 2011. I mean. He straight setted him on clay twice.:shock:
     
    #42
  43. Raz11

    Raz11 Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2011
    Messages:
    702
    True but they hadn't played on Grass nor a grand slam final at that point. Considering it was the defending Champion who had beaten Federer there before against Djokovic who made his first final ever, I thought Djokovic was the underdog. The H2H was important but this was their first grand slam match. I still think Djokovic was the underdog but everyone has their own opinion.
     
    #43
  44. RoddickAce

    RoddickAce Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2007
    Messages:
    2,472
    Win a slam as the #3 player in the world? hmm but Djoker has done it
     
    #44
  45. travlerajm

    travlerajm Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2006
    Messages:
    4,443
    I'd like to reset this discusssion on an interesting thought:

    There are two types of underdog victories in slam finals for the greats:
    Type 1: beginning of career when on the rise.
    Type 2: end of career when the player is supposed to be washed up.

    Guys like Sampras, Chang, Courier, Agassi, Rafter, and Nadal managed to pull off victories of Type 1. These are not as difficult in my opinion - there is really not that much pressure.

    Very few people can pull off victories of Type 2. To win when everyone thinks you are washed up require you to overcome the mental hurdle of knowing that you no longer have superior skills to the guy across the net. I think the only reason Sampras was able to pull of the US 2002 was because he got the good fortune of playing Agassi in the final. He was able to knock off young guns in the Q and SF, but asking to do it on Sunday the day after playing the semi's is too much (as he found out in '00 and '01).

    Similarly, Federer was able to pull off two slam victories in 2009 only because he was lucky to draw Roddick and Soderling in the finals, guys he owned. Had Nadal been healthy, he'd have been toast. And the same thing happened for Fed in AO 2010 (drawing Murray).

    All 16 of Fed's slam victories came against finals opponents who were clearly overmatched skills-wise or mentally.

    The questions is, do you think that Federer's career feels hollow because he has never been able to summon the mental strength to win when he is not supposed to win? And would his career be viewed differently if he can pull off one last slam by either beatinga dominant #1 Djokovic (or exorcising his demons vs. Nadal) in the final?
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2012
    #45
  46. NadalAgassi

    NadalAgassi Guest

    Grass is Nadal's second best surface, and Djokovic's worst. The gap in abilities of Djokovic between clay (where he is excellent, just not at RG) and grass (where up until last year he is really quite mediocre) are probably even more than Nadal from clay to grass. For Djokovic the blah grass courter to have beaten Nadal in the Wimbledon final was an even bigger stamp of total ownage at the time then beating him on clay. Not to mention he had just failed miserably on the clay at RG, losing to a nearly 30 year old Federer in the semis.

    As others have noted the bookies all had Nadal as the favorite for last years Wimbledon, both going in, and pre final. Thus Djokovic did win as the underdog.
     
    #46
  47. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2005
    Messages:
    35,665
    Played with a head greater than 90 sq in?

    Never mind - didn't see the full list
     
    #47
  48. autumn_leaf

    autumn_leaf Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2007
    Messages:
    1,928
    Location:
    Taunton, MA
    should djoker be on the list because he won his first AO against fed. Though that was the year claimed he had mono.

    I don't think Fed's career was hollow. A great point is made about the head to head count with fed vs nadal. Federer gets to finals often and almost never has had any injuries. You can't say that about other players. People often say "if nadal was 100%, or if nadal had made it to the final" well then he should have made it to the final and should have taken better care of himself then. It's not federer's job to make sure his opponents make it to the final is it?
     
    #48
  49. travlerajm

    travlerajm Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2006
    Messages:
    4,443
    But in AO 2008 Djokovic played Fed in Semi's. In final, he got to play as a heavy favorite against a low-ranked Tsonga.
     
    #49
  50. celoft

    celoft Guest

    The only slam final where Nadal is not the underdog against Djoker is at the RG final. Anywhere else, Nadal is the underdog these days if he plays Djoker.

    Wimbledon is where Nadal has lost the most slam finals. He has a negative record of 2-3.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 12, 2012
    #50

Share This Page