All problems solved with racket

Discussion in 'Tennis Tips/Instruction' started by sureshs, Feb 3, 2013.

  1. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

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    That is right, all my tennis problems were solved this week. Forehand, backhand, serves, jamming balls - all are solved.

    I decided to get rid of my addiction to the feel of the PS 85, and searched for a true pro spec frame on the TW racket finder. By that I mean a frame close to SW 350 in stock form. Apart from some very light but huge headed grandpa frames, and a couple with very high stiffness or extended length, it basically boiled down to the Dunlop Biomimetic 200 Tour. TW lists the strung SW as 345, another site as 350. This is close to Fed and Nadal specs of 350-355.

    I played with the demo this week and all problems are solved. All the hard work put in with the PS 85 bore fruit. The frame was comfortable, powerful and absolutely stable - not one iota of discomfort.

    I have ordered two of these. I think Dunlop may replace this with the F 2.0 Tour which will have a much lower SW.

    It was also an eye opening experience for me that there is hardly any frame with a pro SW.

    Try it out. Every shot is easier and nothing can faze you. It reminds me of table tennis, where for about a 100 bucks, you can get a pro paddle with pro rubbers, and then the only thing that separates you from the pros is skill. Contrast that with the $10 paddles in the sports store, which definitely hurts your game even at the lowest level. Now it seems to me that pro SW is that thing in tennis which really separates the worthwhile frames from the riff-raff.
     
    #1
  2. isilra

    isilra Rookie

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    What kind of forehand do you have ? I mean you are using the ATP style pronation-supination-pronation route or just go for the oldschool lay the wrist back and go for it style ? I'm asking because i'm still wondering what kind of racquet specs would be suitable for my game.
     
    #2
  3. KineticChain

    KineticChain Professional

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    Just wait until next week... you'll get used to the new racquet and be right where you were before :)
     
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  4. TheCheese

    TheCheese Professional

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    Seriously. Although, I'm sure it's a bit easier than playing with an 85.
     
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  5. slowfox

    slowfox Professional

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    There's also the Pro Kennex Ionic Ki 5 PSE. 345 swingweight. :)
     
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  6. luvforty

    luvforty Banned

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    sureshs, can we see it in action, that would be awesome!
     
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  7. boramiNYC

    boramiNYC Hall of Fame

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    Welcome to Dunlop. I'm a happy 100 user. yes the PS85 feels quite flimsy, despite the heft, in comparison to the new offerings. not stiff enough at the critical parts of the frame. you are not that naive are you if you think it will solve all the problems...enjoy the honeymoon. :)
     
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  8. claub

    claub New User

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    I agree with what you said 100% and I hope it's not just a honeymoon period.

    Would be nice to see you in action.
     
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  9. nyc

    nyc Hall of Fame

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    how are your volleys?
     
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  10. arche3

    arche3 Banned

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    Yeah suresh prop up your cell phone and take some vids.
     
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  11. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

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    That is right. I didn't go for it because it was 100 sq in and 9 pts HL and heavier. That is about as HL as my PS 85. I think today's baseline centric game does not favor such head light frames. Fed and Nadal are in the 3 to 6 pts HL range.

    The other reason was that there is a guy in the club who has been using the Dunlop, and I never realized it. He offered to sell it to me, but changed his mind. He plays singles with it and uses another frame for doubles.

    But I am sure the PK is a great choice also.

    It is strange that the "Fed" racket is so popular among some fans, but its stock form has no closeness to what Fed uses in terms of SW.
     
    #11
  12. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

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    I think the 100 series is history.

    And yes this has already solved all my problems :)

    Now only the real problems remain.
     
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  13. dman72

    dman72 Hall of Fame

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    You could have achieved that swingweight and had many more racquets to choose from by buying a $20 reel of lead tape.

    Note that many pros frames are not at that swingweight off the shelf. Take a look at the thread in the pros equipment thread by Fabfed who has "Noles" racquet...Djokovic use a ton of lead tape to achieve his SW.
     
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  14. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

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    Lead placement requires lot of expertise and fine tuning. If I can get a high SW stock, why not go for it?

    Pros have to do it because they may have no option from their sponsors. Right now it is only the Dunlop 200 Tour and the PK PSE. How many are sponsored by these companies?

    Soon there will be only one because the Dunlop F 2.0 Tour is going to have a lower SW.

    Also, the low RA of Dunlop makes for a very arm-friendly frame.
     
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  15. luvforty

    luvforty Banned

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    step 1 - peel the sticky off
    step 2 - apply lead tape to racket
    step 3 - weigh racket
    step 4 - become a real tennis player
     
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  16. dman72

    dman72 Hall of Fame

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    Pros do it because they stick with the frame they started playing with, for the most part. As they get stronger and face heavier shots, they boost their swingweight. Djokovic again as an example is basically using a 10+ year old radical mold with a stock swingweight probably in the low 300's that he's got juiced up over 360 with lead all around the hoop.

    It does not take a lot of expertise...maybe some fine tuning but it's pretty easy to do since the stuff can be put on a peeled off during a hitting session. The only question is whether to add it at 3/9, 10/12, 12, or all around the top of the hoop.

    I guess if you just don't want to bother then you have maybe 2 frames available stock, but you're skipping over a ton of quality racquets that could easily be at that spec.
     
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  17. luvforty

    luvforty Banned

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    seriously thought - lead tape is a necessity not a choice... if you buy 2 or more copies, chances are almost zero for them to match in weight balance and sw.
     
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  18. Relinquis

    Relinquis Hall of Fame

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    I'm pretty surprised that there are so few heavy (SW) stock racquets.

    Maybe I should get the dunlop* before they stop making them, just to have the option.


    * Wasn't the previous model even a bit heavier?
     
    #18
  19. Power Player

    Power Player Talk Tennis Guru

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    Great racquet and probably not tough to use coming from a Ps85.

    I have my Blades leaded up to 340 SW and I love how they play. It takes time though. I do not add lead unless my racquet starts to feel like it is swinging light. I went from 333 to 340.
     
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  20. luvforty

    luvforty Banned

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    like i said before, rackets are made to be leaded, because it's much easier to add weight than to reduce.

    for most people, stock is probably too light.
     
    #20
  21. Power Player

    Power Player Talk Tennis Guru

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    It matters what stock is. Some racquets that come stock are perfect. the real key is to buy a stock racquet that you can hit with out of the box. then after about 2-3 months of play, start leading up the stick. Have the string setup dialed in for at least 1 month.

    If you do it right, you will find your ideal specs. It worked out perfectly for me.
     
    #21
  22. anubis

    anubis Hall of Fame

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    Make sure you're adding the weight in a polarized fashion too. You don't want a 350 SW if it makes the stick 10 points HH. That's a freakin' shovel. counterbalance with lead (fishing weights) and silicone in the handle so you can maintain the same balance as stock.
     
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  23. Relinquis

    Relinquis Hall of Fame

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    all of this hype about design and new materials, yet we end up playing with sticks that are 20% lead tape!

    i don't get it. manufacturers are making racquets lighter and lighter, so we end up leading them up more and more to make them heavier so we can play properly. why don't they have a line of heavier racquets for grown ups?
     
    #23
  24. luvforty

    luvforty Banned

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    20 yrs ago Prostaff 6.1 was the go-to racket for the good players... i think if you do a blind test today, 6.1 vs whatever supernanocarbon frame today, very small percentage of people will notice a difference.
     
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  25. FrisbeeFool

    FrisbeeFool Rookie

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    Oh god, are you serious??? Nobody hits a forehand and thinks time to pronate, time to supinate, time to pronate again. That's just a tennis warehouse message board thing. It has nothing to do with choosing a racket.
     
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  26. FrisbeeFool

    FrisbeeFool Rookie

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    No racket is going to magically fix your tennis game. Best to worry about technique. I'm shocked by the consumerist approach some people have to sports. As if it's possible to buy your way to a better game. They've been making graphite rackets for decades. Whatever upgrades they're touting are just selling points in order to move new rackets.
     
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2013
    #26
  27. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

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    Good...........
     
    #27
  28. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

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    Not that simple. I need the SW. To do it easily, I have to take it to my pro shop and use his Prince machine. Then I have to sit there and add lead and take measurements over and over again. Not feasible.
     
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  29. Mick3391

    Mick3391 Professional

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    I don't think anyone is saying a racquet will "Magically" fix their game, not sure where you saw that.

    There is a tremendous difference in high end play with these different racquets, I mean I can hit anything, play with anything, even wood, but sometimes these little details can make a big difference.

    For example, I have a PS 90 and a K-95, almost identical weight and size, but they play totally different. The 95's head is more round, and while I love the 90, in play I pick the 95, incredible racquet and huge difference.
     
    #29
  30. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

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    No, the Aerogel version was lighter I think. But I think they are basically the same. It did not show up in the TW list - but if I go through the racket finder, I see it there and it was cheaper. But I think it means it was a mistake and they don't have it.

    Even the Bio 200 Tour is out of stock and coming in this week. Better buy them before they are replaced.
     
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  31. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

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    No, no problem at all. The guy in the club who uses it occasionally asked me to start lifting weights. I told him I have been lifting the PS 85 all this time.
     
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  32. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

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    That is why I did not get the PK PSE. It is 9 points HL and a SW of 345.

    I really don't know what I will do if the Dunlop 200 Tour is discontinued.

    Edit: I see you said HH. What do you think of a high SW and very HL? It is kind of strange, as the very HL versions were used by S&V players of yore. Doesn't sound right with high SW.
     
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2013
    #32
  33. Avles

    Avles Hall of Fame

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    Errr, what does consciously deciding when to pronate and supinate while hitting have to do with the question? Did isilra ever say he did that while swinging? The point is that some players actually do this and some don't, and the swing types end up being a bit different as a result.

    I'm not well-versed in these matters, but it doesn't seem outside the realm of possibility that different swing types would benefit more or less from different racquet specs. So I'm not sure why you're so scandalized by the question...
     
    #33
  34. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

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    Technique is not going to improve by keeping the same racket, just as it is not going to improve with a new toy. In the same way, number of playing hours will not increase either way to increase the practice. Those things make a difference for those people who are willing to make a greater commitment, namely juniors, college players, pros, and retired people. For me, it is what it is.

    I could not play with lighter rackets than the PS 85 because they hurt my arm and just did not feel right. The materials seemed to become more tinny and hollow with newer models, as they brought the weight down to appeal to the average consumer, but tried to increase the stability by nano this or that. They did achieve a lot of comfort, but in the end, when I struck a ball, it did not feel right.

    Now I have outlived the PS 85. I wanted more free depth and I was noticing that top spin balls to the BH were getting more and more difficult to handle. I found people blocking the ball back with depth with a 1 hander and I could not do it. Now with the Dunlop, it is happening with ease. I don't have to worry about being very precise with the swing to catch the tiny sweetzone, or to fear discomfort if I hit slightly off-center. Instead of trying to achieve perfection and stoke my ego, I decided that a 95 with a high SW is the way to go - even Fed abandoned the 85.
     
    #34
  35. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

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    I do some pat the dog and Nike swoosh thing. I don't do the stretch your arm and just loop thing. But definitely not as sophisticated like Federer.

    What racket specs are you using now? If you feel the frame is comfortable and that you don't seem to be working harder than players of your level yet not getting the results, then just stick with it.

    Regarding the suitability of the frame to the style: if you want the fast swing of the juniors, do NOT use a heavy/high SW frame. They are not using it. Filip will probably scoff at my choice of SW 350 and 12.3 oz weight when he has won 2 Slams with a much lighter frame. The juniors use lighter frames and really hit the skin out of the ball. I don't know what the toll to the arm is, but that is what I see.

    From the college to the pro level, frames become heavier, but I think most WTA players are not going very high either.

    Then you have players like Fed, Djoker, Murray and Nadal who use high SWs AND swing very fast.
     
    #35
  36. Cheetah

    Cheetah Hall of Fame

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    no you don't. use the tw online customization tool. it works.
     
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  37. Power Player

    Power Player Talk Tennis Guru

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    No, what you do is grab your stick with the overgrip on and strung. Get the SW measured. From there, you will be fine. You just need to know that original SW.
     
    #37
  38. TheCheese

    TheCheese Professional

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    Sureshs, could you film some clips of yourself playing?
     
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  39. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

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    I saw it now. But it needs the original SW. I guess one can use the pendulum method.
     
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  40. Cheetah

    Cheetah Hall of Fame

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    tw lists sw for all racquets.
     
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  41. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    My two Mfil200's weigh 12.4 oz strung.
    My Aero200 weighs right at 12.8 oz strung.
    They're sitting around various rooms for shadow swing practice.
     
    #41
  42. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

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    Yes I meant accurately. I have seen huge discrepancy from stick to stick when measuring in the pro store. In one case, me and the owner measured 9 frames - only 2 were up to advertised spec!
     
    #42
  43. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    Are you talking Dunlop frames?
    Or another company?
    We know Babs and Wilson are among the poorest in spec control.
    I'd venture to say Dunlop is close to the best.
     
    #43
  44. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

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    Not Dunlop. He doesn't stock much Dunlop and did not have the 200 Tour in my size.
     
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  45. Cheetah

    Cheetah Hall of Fame

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    guess you didn't check yonex. they match perfectly every time.
     
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  46. slowfox

    slowfox Professional

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    But that Dunlop is already 12.5 oz. Too light? (yes, I know you said "most people")
     
    #46
  47. slowfox

    slowfox Professional

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    If sureshs found his holy grail, awesome. Now he can stop thinking about his equipment and just focus on playing better.
     
    #47
  48. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

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    No Yonex. He doesn't carry them.
     
    #48
  49. TennisCJC

    TennisCJC Legend

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    Yes, enter stock specs and then enter your "adjustment" where you would add lead tape and the tool will recalculate weight, balance, swingweight and twistweight if you entered the original twistweight. You can mode a lead tape customization with the TW manual customization tool in just a few 2nds. Still need to playtest but the tool works well.
     
    #49
  50. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

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    Rackets arrived from TW. I went all "Bio" and asked for Dunlop Silk at 60 lbs and Gecko OG. Honeymoon period is over, but these rackets are the best specs for me. Every stroke is comfortable, and the ball goes deep. The less HL balance seems crucial in easily getting the ball into the box during the serve.

    So I may not be a pro, but the pro SW is what is working for me.
     
    #50

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