All the Fed backhand haters, it is the best 1HBH right now

Discussion in 'General Pro Player Discussion' started by wy2sl0, Jun 18, 2011.

  1. wy2sl0

    wy2sl0 Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2010
    Messages:
    1,572
    Listen, here is the obvious fact of ********'s backhand problems.

    1) He hits it rather flat, with not much clearance
    2) He just happens to have the best tennis mind, so he doesn't give up the baseline, like ever. What does this mean?
    3) He half volley's half of his backhands. This takes a ridiculous amount of skill. Does noone notice all this Wawrinka Gasquet etc, talk? They all stand way the hell back to prepare their swing - while Fed has less than half of their time.

    He still manages to have the best ROS slice backhand, best ROS 1 hander, top 3 in dropshots, and great at redirecting pace.

    BTW uses a ridiculously heavy, small racquet.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KF1VuJlmPaw

    Watch that video tell me I am wrong.
     
    #1
  2. Li Ching Yuen

    Li Ching Yuen Legend

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2010
    Messages:
    6,989
    You're wrong.

    His backhand was never the best of anything.

    Hope this helps.
     
    #2
  3. wy2sl0

    wy2sl0 Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2010
    Messages:
    1,572
    ....Who's one hander is better? Overall??

    Gasquet hits with alot of spin, variety, but it looks so good because the rest of his weapons are, well, non existent.
     
    #3
  4. norbac

    norbac Legend

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2008
    Messages:
    8,583
    Gasquet, Wawrinka, and Haas all have better topspin backhand. Fed has better slice than all of them though.
     
    #4
  5. wy2sl0

    wy2sl0 Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2010
    Messages:
    1,572
    Agreed 100%

    One type of shot from a certain wing does not make you the best or worst, however.

    Also, the flick. Who is better than fed?
     
    #5
  6. bolo

    bolo G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2008
    Messages:
    11,380
    at least the discussions are now within the realm of 1 handers. I see this debate has moved forward. Progress! :)
     
    #6
  7. rommil

    rommil Legend

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2004
    Messages:
    7,769
    Location:
    CT
    It does. Gave others a chance at relative greatness.
     
    #7
  8. nikdom

    nikdom Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2009
    Messages:
    4,725
    Location:
    Tennisville
    No it is the 1HBH that belongs to the most successful player out there who possesses a one-hander.

    OP making it seem like there is a cause and effect between Roger's 1hbh and his success, whereas the reality is probably closer to the notion that he is successful *despite* that backhand because he has a great serve and forehand.
     
    #8
  9. Li Ching Yuen

    Li Ching Yuen Legend

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2010
    Messages:
    6,989
    Wawrinka has the best one hander for the current game and even so it's not really a dangerous weapon. That speaks volumes about the shot itself and how it fits the "modern" game.

    With the highest bounce of the tennis ball in the history of the sport it's hard to ask for it to be the highlight of the show and winner of matches.

    Wawrinka has a compact one hander, heck of a core strength and relatively good positioning on the court.

    Gasquet's backswing on it is huge and that leads to all sort of court positioning problems. You can avoid that by hitting winners of off every backhand but I really doubt that's going to happen anytime soon or realistically possible.

    You can make a case that Federer's bh is effective on lower-bouncing courts and that Almagro's is great on clay but that's hardly anything to write home about when you have to get the best of 20-shot cross court rallies with Djokovic, Nadal, Murray and the rest.
     
    #9
  10. Heracles

    Heracles Banned

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2010
    Messages:
    448
    Gasquet's backhand is better.

    He slices less but is able to hit more winners than Federer and to resist better to a pounding. Gasquet can hit winners from 3m behind his baseline with his backhand, something that Federer can't.

    For the pleasure http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hGWkwaMWaDk
     
    #10
  11. tennis_fan_182

    tennis_fan_182 Banned

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2011
    Messages:
    412
    Because Federer is rarely/never 3m behind the baseline to start with.

    Gasquet's elaborate backhand wind up writes him a court positioning cheque that his ass ain't fast enough to cash.
     
    #11
  12. Pwned

    Pwned Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2008
    Messages:
    2,418
    What the heck are you talking about? He had nearly twice as many bh winners as anyone by the time he was knocked out of the AO.
     
    #12
  13. BreakPoint

    BreakPoint Bionic Poster

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2004
    Messages:
    43,706
    Really? Then how did top players for 100 years use 14 to 16 oz., 65 sq. in. wood racquets and still hit great one-handed backhands? Guys like Laver and Vilas hit some of the sweetest topspin one-handed backhands even by today's standards.
     
    #13
  14. TheNatural

    TheNatural Legend

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2005
    Messages:
    7,950

    Why do *******s always whinge when Rafa keeps hitting the ball to the best 1hbh in the world? :confused:
     
    #14
  15. Pwned

    Pwned Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2008
    Messages:
    2,418
    Why do Nadal fans always whinge when Rafa keeps hitting the ball to the best 2hbh in the world? :confused:

    Maybe because that's the only tactic he knows.
     
    #15
  16. TheNatural

    TheNatural Legend

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2005
    Messages:
    7,950
    I thought this thread was about Freds backhand :confused:

    Unfortunately the best 2hbd isnt good enough v Rafa in slams when he is Fresh. Nadal used this tactic to win 4 of the last 5 slams because its better than the best tactic his opponents have.
     
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2011
    #16
  17. Pwned

    Pwned Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2008
    Messages:
    2,418
    You wanted to make it about Nadal.

    Those tactics did Nadal a lot of good the last 4 times he played Djokovic. Instead he started doing it even more and even worse with moonballs.
     
    #17
  18. TheNatural

    TheNatural Legend

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2005
    Messages:
    7,950
    Nadal won Roland Garros.It worked great when he was fresh.

    Back on topic If Feds 1hb is so brilliant him and his fans should be happy that players hit to it.
     
    #18
  19. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2005
    Messages:
    35,723
    Yeah but they did not face real challenge like Rafa
     
    #19
  20. sdont

    sdont Legend

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2009
    Messages:
    7,030
    Location:
    Paris, France
    So how did Gasquet beat Fed in this video?

    Better FH? Better serve? Yeah, right. :rolleyes:
     
    #20
  21. zagor

    zagor Talk Tennis Guru

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2007
    Messages:
    26,631
    Location:
    Weak era
    This should have ended the thread.

    Although his BH slice is among the best so there.
     
    #21
  22. Bobby Jr

    Bobby Jr Legend

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2010
    Messages:
    7,499
    I'll clarify it. Gasquet's backhand seems better - but only when he has time. When rushed Federer's backhand holds up better than his. The clay court video here shows him hitting backhands with tons of time on his hands.
     
    #22
  23. wy2sl0

    wy2sl0 Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2010
    Messages:
    1,572
    This thread wasn't created to bring hate upon any players, esp Nadal. I am not a ******* at all, A-Rod is my favourite player, someone with a terrible backhand.

    The reason I made this thread is I have noticed watching these other players that it isn't a so called weakness or terrible shot, it just looks so-so because he possess' the best forehand of all time.

    Gasquet this and that, as I said, he cannot consistently hit BH's while maintaining Federer's court coverage by taking away time from the opponent. Wawrinka's topspin is better, however Federer utilizes slice better, and is far more clutch at angles and volleys with his backhand.

    Of course also, he is the most dynamic at defense with the one hander.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bByvWPmMZ_8
     
    #23
  24. Comet Buster

    Comet Buster Banned

    Joined:
    May 18, 2011
    Messages:
    208
    You're wrong. But thanks for the laughs!!! Wawrinka clearly has the best 1H BH in the game.
     
    #24
  25. Buckethead

    Buckethead Banned

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2009
    Messages:
    4,039
    Not Haas, for sure, but i'd add Almagro to the list, a rocket backhand, down the line, cross court up in the shoulders(and He is shorter than Fed). on his knees...

    The slice is the best ever.
     
    #25
  26. wy2sl0

    wy2sl0 Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2010
    Messages:
    1,572
    Wawrinka sure hits alot of winners and goes for broke on his backhand, but also makes errors. His slice is nowhere near the level of Federer's, and is very one dimensional. He is also not a great ROS player on the BH side - of course I don't have to mention his volleying on the backhand side is nowhere near Federer's level. So how is it the best?

    Does noone remember what Fed did to Karlovic just a couple years ago at Wimbledon? The first break he had he fired 2 or 3 winners on ROS. He is the best one handed returner, possibly ever.

    Point 1: http://youtu.be/9GQ_ukSV6Jw?t=31s
    Point 2: http://youtu.be/9GQ_ukSV6Jw?t=1m33s
    Point 3: http://youtu.be/9GQ_ukSV6Jw?t=4m47s
     
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2011
    #26
  27. Comet Buster

    Comet Buster Banned

    Joined:
    May 18, 2011
    Messages:
    208
    Better than Rosewalls?
     
    #27
  28. Comet Buster

    Comet Buster Banned

    Joined:
    May 18, 2011
    Messages:
    208
    Having a great return of serve includes great reflexes and anticipation. Federer reads the game better than anyone ever to play the game. Wawrinka's BH is clearly better. Again, with volleying movement is the most important thing and anticipation too - against what Federer is great at. So no. The only thing you're right on is the slice.

    Did you see what Roddick did to Federer's return that tournament? Federer has a good defensive return and breaks the biggest servers nowadays because the best servers cannot back their serves up like they could in the 90's.
     
    #28
  29. DeShaun

    DeShaun Banned

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2010
    Messages:
    2,837
    In this video, Murray can be seen pouting after several backhand winners Gasquet hit. Murray's penchant for whining and lack of emotional control are holding him back, in my opinion.

    He comes across as spoiled with superb foot and hand eye coordination which he uses in playing fantastic defense and mixing in tricky spins. But he seems to block a ton of balls.

    Until he figures out when, where and how to eschew counter-punching in the biggest matches, simply hanging around long enough does not win slams. I believe a champion desires to take the match onto his own racket when it become tight.

    Murray's only stroke, which enables him occasionally to take big matches onto his racket, is that big serve of his. But this aspect of his game tends to run hot and cold.

    One needs an extremely potent and reliable weapon against elite players, I believe, if he wants to win slams. Balls travel too fast nowadays for a cat and mouse game like Wilander's to win slams.

    Of the big four, Djoker currently has the best defense and ROS. Those are real weapons.

    Rafa combines offense and defense at the highest level known to man. This is a real weapon.

    Roger has the most well tempered attacking style and offensive shot-making abilities. He has real weapons.

    Andy's serve simply does not bail him out regularly enough on the biggest stages, which inconsistency leaves him high and dry with nothing else to fall back on except counter-punching, and that is not a weapon.
     
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2011
    #29
  30. norbac

    norbac Legend

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2008
    Messages:
    8,583
    I think the Haas backhand is definitely better than the Fed backhand, at least in regards to topsin. It is more consistent and Haas can really rip it with his one hander.
     
    #30
  31. mcr619619

    mcr619619 Rookie

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2011
    Messages:
    183
    gASquet BH is better... it's solid and deadly
     
    #31
  32. TheNatural

    TheNatural Legend

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2005
    Messages:
    7,950
    Federer's slice is way overated. It's consistent but lacks bite.
     
    #32
  33. DeShaun

    DeShaun Banned

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2010
    Messages:
    2,837
    I think his back hand is versatile, not menacing. It does the job in a vast majority of situations. That's all.
     
    #33
  34. Fedman

    Fedman New User

    Joined:
    May 31, 2010
    Messages:
    40
    haha well I'll take his backhand if he (and no one else) wants it.

    In all honesty though gentlemen, lets keep it real. Here are the facts:
    1. There is no one handed backhand out there now (and arguably ever) that has the variety that Roger's does. Why? Gasquet, Wawrinka, and arguably Haas can possibly hit more powerful shots with their topspin oneys but since when is power the sole indicator of the greatness of a shot? Do you *ever* see Gasquet, Wawrinka, or Haas hit ridiculous passing shots with their backhands on the full run? Do you ever see them even being able to hit a topspin backhand when they are put on the run period? I know I've never seen it. Do you ever see them hit slice passing shot WINNERS like Rog has? Again, I know I've never seen any of these players do that.
    2. I know I don't see Haas, or the others hitting topspin returns on their backhand side as consistently as Rog does. Hell, at the French Open he was returning *aggressively* off his backhand side, a key reason he was able to make a match out of the final against Rafa.
    3. Roger is one of the few 1hbh players who has actually *improved* his stroke as the years have gone on (and John Mcenroe agrees with me). This is due to the constant beating his oney has received at the hands of Nadal over the years, which has helped make it a more stable, consistent, and diverse shot than the backhands of Haas, Wawrinka, Gasquet, or Youzhny who got his ass handed to him by Nadal at the US Open last year because of the forehand to backhand matchup.
    4. Finally, Roger has a much better slice than any of the other one handed backhand champions of now.

    So once again, if Rog doesn't want his oney, I'll take it. Otherwise, lets just keep our criticism of his backhand reserved. Someone said he won his 16 grand slams "despite" his backhand. Ridiculous. Unlike Sampras, Rog's backhand was *never* a weakness or liability. It only seemed that way because he was facing Rafa Nadal on clay on such a consistent basis.
     
    #34
  35. svijk

    svijk Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2006
    Messages:
    667
    agree with OP and Fedman, the rest of the posts are just 'noise'
     
    #35
  36. RoddickAce

    RoddickAce Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2007
    Messages:
    2,472
    I see a lot of what you said above.
    eg)
    A: Gasquet has better backhand.
    B: Federer's backhand got him 16 slams, 16>0, end discussion.
    C: That is very flawed logic...

    BUT, the OP never even mentioned Federer's success in tennis. He/she merely pointed out what Federer can do with his backhand.

    As such, I don't think there is of that flawed logic in the original post.
     
    #36
  37. Clay lover

    Clay lover Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2007
    Messages:
    1,912
    #37
  38. norbac

    norbac Legend

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2008
    Messages:
    8,583
    I've seen Wawrinka do it on multiple occasions, same with Gasquet. Watch Tsonga/Wawrinka from the French this year, Stan hit a lot of crazy backhand passing shots.
     
    #38
  39. IvanisevicServe

    IvanisevicServe Banned

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2009
    Messages:
    858
    I wouldn't necessarily include Haas in that list. His BH is too streaky. Great example was against Federer in that 2009 Wimbledon SF. It took him, I believe, over 2 sets to hit his first BH winner. He shows flashes of brilliance with it but I think Federer hits a lot more winners with his.

    I don't like all the excuses in the first post, though. So what if he stands close to the baseline and uses a smaller racket? The shot is what it is. If Federer is hurting himself on the BH like that tactically then he's an idiot.

    His BH was great at the French Open this year, though. Until the Nadal match. But who honestly expects anyone's BH to be better than Nadal's FH? The bigger question for me is, why couldn't Federer dictate more with the FH? Answer, of course, is Nadal's inhuman defense, retrieving winner after winner.

    I've always felt Federer has more potential power off his top spin BH than anyone else in the world the past 10 or so years, save maybe Safin. When he unloads on it, it's scary. The problem is he's too tentative with it these days. I've seen him look scared to even hit the thing. His confidence off that wing really took a beating sometime in either 07 or 08 and he was just looking to hit it back into the middle of the court.

    That Falla match last year was the tale of the two Federer backhands. Early on it was awful...just dreadful. As the match went on and he realized his back was against the ropes and he was facing a total disaster, he started going for broke and was crushing winners. I wish he'd go back to the all-out attack mode Federer we saw in 03-06, but unfortunately that time has likely passed. He probably doesn't have faith in his court coverage to get back in points/cover volleys should he find himself slightly out of position when in attack mode.
     
    #39
  40. Fedman

    Fedman New User

    Joined:
    May 31, 2010
    Messages:
    40
    Can either Gasquet or Wawrinka do this against the top top players? I watched both men play against Novak at Rolland Garros (and Wawrinka v. Novak in the Masters tournament immediately preceding) and NEVER once saw either:
    1) Passing shot winners
    2) Either man even hitting a topspin backhand when on the full run. I take that back, Gasquet started to get desperate at Rolland Garros, started crushing backhands and hit winners while on the full run about 1 out of 10 times (optimistically).

    Rog on the other hand hits backhand winners while on the full run consistently against ANY player, whether it be Tsonga, Roddick, what have you, or Novak, Andy Murray, and of course Rafael. In fact, one of the highlights of the semifinal match at RG between Fed an Novak was Rog hitting a backhand passing shot winner down the line while on the full run.
     
    #40
  41. Clay lover

    Clay lover Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2007
    Messages:
    1,912
    Actually, Federer doesn't need to be the best at everything to be the best player of all time. It's about time Fed fans realized this.
     
    #41
  42. okdude1992

    okdude1992 Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2005
    Messages:
    3,346
    But he has to have a GOAT backhand and a GOAT serve. Why else would he win 16 slams. Its not like his superior forehand, variety, smarts, and movement alone would be good enough...

    Seriously though. It's extremely annoying how some people insist his serve is better than Karlovic or Isner's. Or his backhand is better than Wawrinka or Gasquet's.
     
    #42
  43. zagor

    zagor Talk Tennis Guru

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2007
    Messages:
    26,631
    Location:
    Weak era
    Yeah and it's about time you stopped generalizing,most of us(Fed fans)realize that Fed's BH wasn't at any point the best on tour(let alone best of all time),same goes for his serve as a standalone shot(not his serve/hold game which I do find to be one of the best ever).Furthemore many of us don't consider him to be the best player of all time either(I personally find the whole GOAT concept to be faulty),we do believe that he's a great player that achieved what he did because of his tennis skill and persistence rather than because of "weak era" and "luck"(something many Nadal/Sampras fans can't seem to come into terms with).

    Now run along and help TennisFan3 and Namelessone in writing their master thesis on "Nadal's decline and repeak in 2011".
     
    #43
  44. Clay lover

    Clay lover Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2007
    Messages:
    1,912
    Sorry to have offended you. I meant a small crowd of Fed fans but i didn't word it very well. But trust me there are genuinely guys that believe Fed has everything better than all players, makes you wonder who other players are for? Losing?

    Please accept my apologies instead of generalize back. I have no intent of doing anything for Namelessone and TennisFan 3, but nor will I concede that Nadal is at his peak in 2011, one of the more outrageous claims from you in my opinion.
     
    #44
  45. above bored

    above bored Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2010
    Messages:
    484
    Federer unquestionably has a great backhand. Those who don't think so, don't know tennis. As Djokovic said at the French this year, it's top 3 amongst single-handers.

    I think Federer has a better backhand than both Gasquet and Wawrinka. He does more with it and can consistently take the ball much earlier than both of them. It's a great shot.
     
    #45
  46. wy2sl0

    wy2sl0 Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2010
    Messages:
    1,572
    ^ This is all I was saying. I figured I would create a thread with maybe some discussion rather than the 50x threads of GOAT or who will win tournament A or B. I didn't want to mix his Grand Slam achievements because I don't think any "one" part of someone's game can win them anything.

    It is also sad to see that so many people cannot give Roger credit anymore, in fear that they sound like they are kissing his ass, something that he obviously doesn't need - and in turn makes this board go'round.
     
    #46
  47. tata

    tata Professional

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2008
    Messages:
    1,065
    Well i wouldn't say his backhand is crap or bad. It's just not reliable sometimes. In terms of using it as a part of his game and strategy to win points there's no doubt Fed knows what he's doing.
     
    #47
  48. wy2sl0

    wy2sl0 Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2010
    Messages:
    1,572
    I found it interesting to read this morning that Federer wishes he could have a two hander, over a one hander.

    FEDERER: "I am very happy with what I have. Sure I cannot hit a double handed backhand, I wish I could. But it's fine. I wish I had a serve like Sampras but I'm happy with mine. I wish I had volleys like (Tim) Henman or (Stefan) Edberg or (Pat) Rafter but I'm happy with what I have. I have tried to become the best player I can be over all these years and I think I did really well. I'm surprised how well I actually did.

     
    #48
  49. Comet Buster

    Comet Buster Banned

    Joined:
    May 18, 2011
    Messages:
    208
    So according to you not many people 'know tennis'. It's a good backhand. Not great.

    Kohlly, Almagro, Gasquet and Wawrinka all say hi!

    Yep, and Federer's 1H BH is also better than Kuerten's too. Get serious.
     
    #49
  50. wy2sl0

    wy2sl0 Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2010
    Messages:
    1,572
    If you are measuring winners to base your claim of a better or worse FH that shouldn't be the case. Most can agree that although Nadal doesn't hit a ton of winners, his FH takes alot of skill and great timing to hit - it is a great shot. However I don't discard it because it isn't "used" as a weapon always.
     
    #50

Share This Page