amazing fields overcame at regular events like Kodes in Madrid 75

Discussion in 'Former Pro Player Talk' started by kiki, Mar 2, 2013.

  1. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    We all know how Kodes won the 73 Wimbledon with a field that included Borg,Connors and Nastase, as well as Amritraj, even if he didn´t met any of the first three.he also had amazing runs at the 71 USO, beating all time greats like Newcombe,Toni Roche and ashe but failed to beat Stan Smith in the final match...but few know he won the Madrid GP title in 75, a bit past his prime, over an all time studded field that included, all at their primes, Borg, Panatta,Nastase,Orantes, Vilas and other greats like Okker,Fillol,Bertolucci,Barazzutti,Dibbs.The event was a regular series event.

    That made me wonder how many regular series fields have had a winner that can overcome, day in day out, an explosive field.I am not refeering to GS titles or other majors like Masters or WCT Championships ( or even current Mmasters Series ebvents) that are much more well known and, of course, had the whole best package playing there...I mean regular series; F.e., I.Lendl won 1981 Barcelona beating Orantes,Panatta ( both past prime but still excelent on clay), Noah and Vilas.In 1980 Montecarlo, Borg had to beat Lendl,Mc namara,Clerc, Gerulaitis and Vilas to claim the title.within twelve months ALL THOSE 5 GUYS would rank in the top ten...

    How many comparable cases can you bring up? there should be a few ones...
     
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  2. Goosehead

    Goosehead Hall of Fame

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    why do you keep banging on and on about jan kodes and wimbledon 1973..:confused:

    everyone withdrew before the start..kodes and taylor were seeds no2 and no3..before the boycott they were seeds no15 and no16..nastase was the only decent player and he lost early, borg had just had his 17th burfday and was playing his first wimbledon..kodes didnt play them anyway :?

    amritraj was a lucky loser..the only 'pre boycott seed' kodes faced was original no16 seed bumped up to no3 seed roger taylor in the sf..

    weakest draw of all time...get over it 40yrs late and move on :confused:
     
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  3. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    You forgot, deliberately or not, jimmy connors.

    Anyway, it is just an example.I don´t have any interest in giving it more thought and I think the Wimbledon issue is already overdiscussed here.
     
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  4. ARFED

    ARFED Semi-Pro

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    Dubai-2012

    A field that included: Djokovic, Federer, Murray, Del Potro, Berdych, Tsonga, Tipsarevic, Gasquet, Dolgopolov, Baghdatis, Fish, Davydenko, Ljubicic, Youzhny, Lopez, Llodra.

    11 out of the top 20 players in the world, most of them in their primes. And some other great players too.

    Guess who won...
     
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  5. Xavier G

    Xavier G Semi-Pro

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    Some of the clay courts events in the 70's and 80's as in Madrid and Barcelona had great fields.
    kiki, in 1982, Wilander beat Lendl, Clerc and Vilas in successive rounds to win Barcelona.
    A few months earlier, Mats had beaten Lendl, Gerulaitis, Clerc and Vilas to win the French!
     
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  6. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    Yes, that is truth.I think Lendl tried to beat Wilander by...serving and volleying on clay¡¡¡.
     
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  7. hoodjem

    hoodjem G.O.A.T.

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    When is my burfday?:oops:

    Have I ever had a burfday?:-?
     
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  8. Goosehead

    Goosehead Hall of Fame

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    ok then..ahem..also featuring was jimmy connors..pre preak age 20 another player kodes didnt play when he won wimby 73, when 14 of the 16 seeds withdrew.
     
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  9. Goosehead

    Goosehead Hall of Fame

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    i spelt it wrong..i meant burfdayy, not burfday.
     
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  10. TMF

    TMF Talk Tennis Guru

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    Definitely the field was stronger than 1973 Wimbledon despite it's only an ATP500 series.
     
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  11. gavna

    gavna Hall of Fame

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    Wimby 1973 was a joke and should have a HUGE * by it..........
     
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  12. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    Did you watch any tennis in the early 70´s?
     
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  13. gavna

    gavna Hall of Fame

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    Something like 80 of the top 100 boycotted Wimby........ Absolute joke of an event. Metreveli played no one - yes Connors and Borg played but both were just starting out - Borg was what 15?

    Best part of he whole thing was the doubles won by Connors and Nastase - lots of antics.

    I was there in person FYI - Kodes at the time was what seeded 15 or 16 and after the boycott started jumped all the way to no.2!

    Kodes had a good run in 73 - the only reason he was ranked as high as he got (no 4 in 73) was the Wimby and a great run at the USO......after that he was what he was a very good clay courter. After his summer of 73 he didn't win another event until 1975 (clay of course).
     
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  14. Goosehead

    Goosehead Hall of Fame

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    Borg was 17yrs old..in his first wimbledon.
     
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  15. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    Kodes proved to be a worthy W champ at FH
    You know Borg also did so: win W and USO F
     
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  16. abmk

    abmk G.O.A.T.

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    you mean like how wilander proved to be a worthy W champ @ the AO ? :twisted:

    that's downright rubbish ....... borg won 5 consecutive wimbledons against full fields ....

    kodes won wimbledon in an extremely weak year due to the boycott ......
     
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  17. gavna

    gavna Hall of Fame

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    Yea I was doing a quick addition in my head without double checking as I was typing....I was counting from 1956 - Borg was not yet in God mode:)


    But to keep claiming that the 1973 Wimby was anything but weak is crazy.......absolute sham of an event, when 80% of the top players are not there it was a joke.
     
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  18. boredone3456

    boredone3456 Legend

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    Wimby in 1973 in todays terms would be equivalent to a 250 with way more players.
     
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  19. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    Borg beat A Ashe, former USO champion and former year finalist on the FH grass , just about two month after achieving the last eight round at the London tournament....
     
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  20. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    Kodes Wimbledon title was no fluke, since he would prove it beating world´s number one and former US champion Stan Smith at the Forest Hills semifinal, before 5 sets specialist Newcombe beat him in one of the most doggy finals that anybody can recall.

    But, oh¡ what a surprise¡¡¡ that jan Kodes, not only reached the Wimbledon semis just one year before taking the ultimate price...but he also beat all time greats Ashe,Roche and Newcombe at the 1971 USO before losing a close 4 sets final to smith.

    Learn history and then come back and post.
     
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  21. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    Borg,Nastase,Amritraj,Migthy Connors...it certainly looks far better than a....Nalbandian vs Hewitt on grass¡¡¡ or Zeus Baghdatis in the semfinals¡¡¡¡ gosh.
     
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  22. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    but in case you STILL are not convinced here is the field assembled at Madrid 75 ( yes, a regular series tournament held on spanish slow clay): Borg, Nastase,Kodes,Orantes,Vilas, Panatta...6 all time great clay courters as well as guys like Barazutti,Higueras,Fillol,Dibbs,Bertolucci and Okker who were among the world´s best on clay as their record proves.

    Well, Mighty Jan met no defeat there...
     
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  23. abmk

    abmk G.O.A.T.

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    yes, it was ... it was the worst wimbledon of the open era ...

    proving that he couldn't win in full fields ... one or two upsets in a GS is one thing, winning one GS in a full field is another

    wilander actually won the AO on grass beating mac/lendl, does that mean he "proved" himself at wimbledon ? lol, he couldn't get past the quarters there ....

    I do know .... so do others like gavna,boredone3456 etc who've posted here ... you are the one who needs to do some learning and get rid of those kodes tinted glasses ...
     
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2013
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  24. abmk

    abmk G.O.A.T.

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    the field in wimbledon 2002 included :

    sampras
    federer
    agassi
    roddick
    hewitt
    krajicek
    safin
    henman

    most importantly it was a full field ...unlike 73 which was spoilt by boycott ..

    nalbandian >> metriveli who kodes faced in the final ....

    i.e

    hewitt-nalbandian >> kodes-metriveli

    henman > any one who kodes faced in wimbledon 1973 ...
     
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2013
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  25. abmk

    abmk G.O.A.T.

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    as far as the thread goes ,

    nalbandian beating fedalovic in 2007 madrid was a more impressive feat ....
     
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  26. boredone3456

    boredone3456 Legend

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    Every opponent he played from the first round through to the SF was a lucky loser or a qualifier. Amritraj was a lucky loser who would never make it past the quarters of a major..ever. His draw for that tournament was a complete and total joke, Wimbledon in 1973 was even worse than half the Aussies played in the 70's.

    You throw out Borg, Nastase and Connors like Kodes played them there that year..he didn't. They were all taken out by other people. If Kodes had actually played and beat one of them maybe...just maybe...his victory would be less hollow that most rational people see it as.

    Saying Kodes is an amazing Wimbledon Champion is almost like saying Sue Barker was an amazing Roland Garros champion. He may have won the trophy but he was not really the best on grass that year at all.
     
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  27. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    Henman is no better than Taylor whom Kodes beat in semis after Roger beay Borg in qf
    You posted Kodes did not face Nastase, Borg and Connors....OK
    Will you tell me whom did Hewitt beat to win the title?
     
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  28. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    Kodes was second to Newk on grass that year and he beat Smith at
    USO sf
    He certainly is no responsible for early Connors,Nasty or Borg defeats
    I never said Hewitt did not deserve Wimbly 2002 in spite of a joke final the worst ever along that of 83
     
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  29. abmk

    abmk G.O.A.T.

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    henman : 4 wimby Semis , highest ranking of #4

    semi @ US and semi at @ the FO

    career titles = 11

    winning % = 64.41%

    roger taylor :

    3 wimby semis - one in amateurs, one in the heavily depleted 73 one, highest ranking of 8

    one semi @ the AO

    career titles = 6

    winning %= 56.14%

    blindingly obvious that henman is clearly better than taylor ....

    and you do realise that 73 wimbledon was borg's first wimbledon ?

    henman >> taylor
    nalbandian >> metreveli
     
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  30. abmk

    abmk G.O.A.T.

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    here are some titles (<YECs ) won vs very good players :

    1. nalbandian madrid 2007 - federer, nadal, djokovic
    2. djokovic montreal 2007 - federer, nadal, roddick
    3. federer cincinnati 2009 - djokovic, murray
    4. nadal hamburg 2008 - djokovic, federer
    5. korda grand slam cup 93 - sampras, stich
    6. djokovic IW 2011 - nadal, federer
    7. roddick dubai 2008 - nadal, djokovic
    8. lendl queens 90 - becker, edberg
    9. mecir miami 87 - edberg, noah, lendl
    ........
     
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  31. gavna

    gavna Hall of Fame

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    You cannot talk about Nalbandian and Metreveli in the same breath.......DN has a career record of 380+ wins to 190 losses - and 11 titles
    Metreveli does not even have a .500 winning percentage in the pros - he is like 79 wins to 84 losses - 2 titles

    Enough with all the Kodes revisionist stuff....had a nice little run - excellent career - strong clay courter who got lucky in 1973 at the biggest event on the calendar. But the dude is no where near one of the greatest - not top 25 - maybe a top 50 as he did get to some USO finals and had strong showings at RG.

    Didn't Kodes first make the joke that "grass was for cows" and in his retirement he built a grass court in his yard?????
     
    #31
  32. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    It was Lendl or Vilas
    Kodes has a W title plus one semi there and two Open finals
    One of the best players of his generation able to survive such a monster field such as 75 Madrid and other great fields
     
    #32
  33. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    Kodes has so many belitters here
    More will come after they learn he took Madrid over prime all time cc greats named Borg, Nastase, Vilas,Panatta or Orantes among others
     
    #33
  34. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    Kodes won 3 majors to Roddick one single or Hewitt two
    If Kodes did not face the three all time greats at 73 W is nor his fault
    It is not Hewitt fault having an easy path at 2002 W ans lets give the winnwr hia credit
     
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  35. gavna

    gavna Hall of Fame

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    Lendl did say it in 1982 but Kodes also said it in the 70s.....first player to get credit for the quote is Manolo Santana back in the mid 60s.

    The running joke was after Kodes retired he built a Grass tennis court on his property..........the USA Tennis magazine and the French Tennis De France ran the same interview and story and made note of the facthat the man who claimed "grass is for the cows or grass is for cows" built a grass court and to a clay one......

    Vilas never complained about grass - he learned to S&V and tried to attack on grass as much as possible.
     
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  36. Fintft

    Fintft Hall of Fame

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    Myself, I'm still peeved at Nastase!
     
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  37. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    jaja. kodes had an amazing grass record.He loved grass.If he didn´t...just imagine how great he could have been¡¡¡
     
    #37
  38. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    1971, the 8 best events with the magnificient 7 all fighting for each title.

    Laver: beats Kodes at Rome and lost Dallas to Rosewall and Philadelphia to Newcombe
    Rosewall: wins AO (Ashe) and WCT (Laver) and reached W semis (Newk)
    Newcombe: wins Wimbledon (Smith) and Philadelphia (Laver)
    Smith: Finals at Wimbledon ( lost to Newk), wins Forest Hills (Kodes) and reaches Masters final ( lost to Nastase)
    Nastase: won the Masters (Smith) and lost the RG final to Kodes
    Kodes: won RG (Nastase), lost USO final (Smith) and Rome (Laver)
    Ashe: lost the AO Final (Rosewall) and lost to Kodes at the USO semis and to Rosewall at the WCT finals semifinals

    Rosewall also won the SA Open, considered the biggest harcourt event then ( beat his doubles partner Fred Stolle)

    is there any other better year in tennis history? i don´t think so
     
    #38
  39. abmk

    abmk G.O.A.T.

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    yep, that was nastase's title to lose and he blew it ....
     
    #39
  40. krosero

    krosero Legend

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    In that '82 RG match Lendl's forehand was misfiring badly, and he got beaten from the baseline. He didn't SV; I don't think he ever tried to beat Wilander by serve and volleying. They played once on grass (83 AO) and even in that match Lendl was hanging back at the baseline.
     
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  41. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    He did at the Barcelona GP match in 1982, which was the post XavierG was refeering to, IMO.
     
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  42. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    Just a few mention on Kodes.After their very close USO quarterfinal match which Connors won in 5 sets, he said " You know, Jan and me play a similar kind of game.Whomever wins between us will probably go on and have a great tournament".Connors won the title two rounds later.
     
    #42
  43. BobbyOne

    BobbyOne Banned

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    kiki, Connors beat Kodes in straight sets at the 1976 USO. He won in five sets at the 1974 Wimbledon.
     
    #43
  44. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    Thanks Bobby.yes, I think he was refeering to 74 Wimbledon.

    Kodes replied back: " In my opinion there are only two players left that can win this tournament.John Newcombe and Stan Smith.Sorry about that, Jimmy"

    Wrong.Connors and Rosewall played the final.
     
    #44
  45. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    Kodes in Barcelona 72: the undeniable three best cc players, playing in their home turf lost in STRAIGHT SETS to Jan Kodes...¡¡¡¡ Gimeno, RG champion at the QF, Nastase the US open winner in the smeis and Manuel Orantes, the titleholder in the final.Gimeno and Orantes played on home soil, and Nastase´d win this tournament in the following two years...

    NOTHING WAS IMPOSSIBLE FOR MIGHTY JAN, LADIES AND GENTLEMEN¡¡¡¡¡
     
    #45
  46. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    Here are some of Jan Kodes mayestathicla runs:

    Madrid 75 (Borg, Vilas,Nastase,Panatta,Orantes), Barcelona 72 ( Gimeno,Nastase,Orantes all bowed to him on after the other), FH 71:(Roche¡¡¡¡,Ashe¡¡¡¡,Newcombe¡¡¡¡), RG 71: Ashe,Franulovic and Nastase¡¡¡ and , of course, that Wimbledo win against three of the greatest modern era champions called: Borg, Connors and peakest Nastase.

    Kodes was epical.Should be a character in Homeus works, liked a raging Greek God, He had misfortune, though, for the most part of his career
     
    #46
  47. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    Since 99,5% of posters here do know nothing about this epic Kodes champion here are some milestones in his career:

    Wins the 1980 Davis Cup
    Wins two back to back RG titles, beating guys like Franulovic ( twice), Ashe and Ilie Nastase
    wins Wimbledon over Borg,Nastase,Connors
    wins Barcelona 72 with consecutive wins ON THEIR HOME TURF and IN STRAIGHT SETS, Gimeno (RG champion), nastase (USO champion) and titleholder Manolo Orantes
    wins Madrid 75, in one of the all time heaviest cc fields with prime Nastase,prime Borg, prime Orantes, prime Panatta and prime Vilas
    lost the 71 USO final after defeating in an all time classic match the best grass courter of the 70´s, John Newcombe, then Tony Roche, then Pierre Barthes, the ebst french player for many years, then Arthur Ashe...and lost in 4 hard fought sets to Stan Smith
    lost the 73 USO final after beating the world´s nº 1 player Stan Smith, and other top guys like John Alexander and Nicky Pilic, and only being extremely tired avoided a probable win over Newcombe.That said by Newk himself, a great self believer...

    maybe he won less titles than others...but his career had that flavour of epic greatness associated to Greek gods...
     
    #47
  48. TMF

    TMF Talk Tennis Guru

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    You should be grateful that The Tennis Channel has Kodes as the #50 greatest male player of all time.

    http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=418076
     
    #48
  49. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    a new proof of their incompetence and amateurism when it comes down to talk and discuss serious tennis...
     
    #49
  50. TMF

    TMF Talk Tennis Guru

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    They have spent a great deal of time/effort to come up with the top list. You don't have the knowledge/experience than them except your biased view.
     
    #50

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