amazing fields overcame at regular events like Kodes in Madrid 75

Discussion in 'Former Pro Player Talk' started by kiki, Mar 2, 2013.

  1. abmk

    abmk G.O.A.T.

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    amateur GS ....you know very well rosewall and hoad were better than him @ that time ....

    didn't you join FedericRoma83 in belittling Emerson's amateur achievements to an extent ?
     
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2013
  2. abmk

    abmk G.O.A.T.

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    maybe an all time great can .... but hewitt isn't an all time great and he simply owned him ..

    besides I ( & others ) saw how much you know about henman when you said he was close to roger taylor .... LOL !!!
     
  3. TMF

    TMF Talk Tennis Guru

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    Amateur field >>>>> very weak. You are the same posters who believe Emerson's weak 12 slams were nothing to brag about.
     
  4. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    I never said Taylor was great, but a good s&v player, which is exactly what henman is.

    hewitt, I must admit, took off petrol off his game.That is a greta virtue.Which puts him over other iconic moonballers such as Chang or Carlsson...
     
  5. abmk

    abmk G.O.A.T.

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    no, henman was simply a much better player than taylor was ...

    like I've said before, you actually need to watch hewitt vs SnVers on the faster surfaces (grass, fast HC, indoors ) to realize how well he tackled them ... at his peak , he simply had arguably the finest return/passing combination vs SnVers ( yes, agassi, connors included ! )
     
  6. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    Hewitt never played peak Becker,Edberg,Ashe,Roche,Tanner,Gottfried,Stockton,Newcombe,Stich,Smith, JMac,Krajicek,Martin,Ivanisevic,Amritraj and others.he played Sampras when he was on the descending curve.from 2002, there have been no serve and volleyers on tour.

    you cannot put him in the same sentence as Connors and Agassi because he played much much much less s&V players
     
  7. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    Those who belittle all time greats should watch their favourites playing under former court conditions, equipment, heavy schedules, so that proves that it is not comparable.
     
  8. abmk

    abmk G.O.A.T.

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    not overall, but at the peak of his abilities, he was up there with agassi, connors ...agassi wasn't that good on the run and connors had some trouble with the low ball to his FH ... hewitt had no such problems tbh ... only agassi, connors had more power than him ...

    sampras was still well above hewitt in the rankings in 2000 (ended it #3 ) and hewitt beat him twice in 2000 ( both straight sets wins , including a bagel at the year ending masters )

    beat 2-time GS champion rafter in 3 of their 4 meetings ..all meetings in rafter's prime only ...

    totally owned henman ( who btw was better than amritraj, stockton, gottfried and a better volleyer than todd martin, ivanisevic, tanner etc )

    your list includes players from 3 decades ... how do you expect hewitt to play them all !?
     
  9. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    Rosewall,Laver,Perry,Trabert, Hoad could return anything and win the point right out.And a certain Jan Kodes was no slouch returning serve...and another certain Bjorn Borg...
     
  10. BobbyOne

    BobbyOne Banned

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    There is no contradiction between my two statements. Emerson's GS titles are true achievements but less worth than pro majors or open era majors. Laver's 1962 GS is a true GS but less worth than his 1967 and 1969 GSs.

    I have not belittled Emerson but put his achievements into perspective...
     
  11. BobbyOne

    BobbyOne Banned

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    Mighty Federer, I never said that Emerson's slams are nothing!!!
     
  12. BobbyOne

    BobbyOne Banned

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    abmk, I doubt that Hewitt would have been able to beat Laver as Taylor did.
     
  13. abmk

    abmk G.O.A.T.

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    I'm not surprised at your doubt at all ... you have no idea how good hewitt was at his peak .... you even said he wouldn't be top 10 in any other "stronger" era ... LOL !

    hewitt was actually hurt by the slowing down of surfaces and he'd do better in other eras tbh ....

    you could actually watch him beat sampras @ USO 2001, queens 2000 , lisbon 2000 etc ...

    rafter on 3 occasions

    agassi on 4 occasions

    henman on plenty of occasions ..

    maybe you'd get some idea ...

    there's no comparison whatsoever b/w hewitt and taylor on any surface ...its a no contest ...hewitt is far and away superior ...
     
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2013
  14. abmk

    abmk G.O.A.T.

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    its not just of less worth, laver wasn't even close to the best player in the world at that time ....
     
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2013
  15. BobbyOne

    BobbyOne Banned

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    He was arguable No.3. Not too bad, I would say. Imagine Djokovic and Murray today would be injured and Federer would win the Grand Slam. You would be the first to claim that his GS is a worthy GS as you probably also say that Federer's FO win was a true one even though he did not meet Nadal...
     
  16. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    In Borg´s era, Hewitt would be at least as good as Jose Luis Clerc and Eugene Mayer.Promise
     
  17. abmk

    abmk G.O.A.T.

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    first of all, federer is still ranked #2 , above murray ...

    injury is a different case from playing in a different field ...

    also laver was getting beat down by both rosewall and hoad repeatedly ... quite a bit of gap ..

    federer still gets a fair share of wins vs djoker/murray/nadal ...combined, he was even with him h2h in 2012 ....

    in any case, still very unlikely that he'd win the GS in 2014, even if the other 3 were injured ...

    pretty sure there'd be plenty of cries of about weakened fields then ... it wouldn't just be the same , not at all ...

    beating nadal is not a requirement to win the FO ..besides nadal was pretty much there at that FO ..just that Robin Soderling too him out .... fed beat soderling in the final ...
     
  18. abmk

    abmk G.O.A.T.

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    in the present era, kodes would be just as good as Andreas Seppi , promise ...
     
  19. TMF

    TMF Talk Tennis Guru

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    I just want you to be consistent...how you devalue Emerson's amateur slams should hold the same for Laver/Rosewall amateur slams.
     
  20. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    ... provided he keeps up with that era schedule and keeps his moonballing talent intact.
     
  21. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    Yes, he was.But I doubt he could sustain that level over a fortnight at RG
     
  22. TMF

    TMF Talk Tennis Guru

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    I believe the top players(doesn't necessary be #1) today would have won the 1962 amateur GS since the field is so weak.
     
  23. BobbyOne

    BobbyOne Banned

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    You should admit that Murray is stronger now than Federer.

    As far as I know Nadal had already knee problems in that FO.
     
  24. BobbyOne

    BobbyOne Banned

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    abmk, I'm glad you show now you are an ignorant even though you seem to be intelligent: a rather dangerous connection...
     
  25. mattennis

    mattennis Hall of Fame

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    Agree.

    Hewitt was one of the fastest players ever (when he was young) and one of the best baseline players against a serve-and-volley player.

    He put many more returns in than Agassi (though Agassi's returns used to be killers) and his passing-shots (both fh and bh) were amazing. And of course he was much faster and better mover than Agassi (Agassi and Connors were obviously much better players overall, but here I am talking about the great things Hewitt had).

    He almost always defeated Henman and Rafter in a time when these two players were playing great tennis.

    He defeated Sampras several times precisely when Sampras started to do serve-and-volley on every serve (first and second) and chip-and-charge a lot. Hewitt loved to face a player doing that (Sampras won some matches against Hewitt earlier when he still played a good fraction of the points from the baseline).

    It is funny what happens in these forums (GPPD). Not only players from the 60s, 70s or 80s or even 90s (let alone earlier) are belittled all the time.

    Even players like Hewitt or Roddick are belittled too (both in this forum and in the GPPD).

    It seems (talking more of the GPPD forum now) that only the present players are good for some new posters, and we will see in less than five years a new group of ignorant tennis posters writing that Federer, Nadal and Djokovic were just weak players from a very weak era.

    Roddick and Hewitt were very good players. The slower conditions harmed them both.
     
  26. mattennis

    mattennis Hall of Fame

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    Both absurd statements.

    Kodes was a great player, just like Hewitt was a great player too.

    They are not all-time greats (greatest of one era) but they were very very good players, each in his time.
     
  27. BobbyOne

    BobbyOne Banned

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    mattennis, You are right that often the greats of the past are underrated and the players of the presence are overrated, especially one player...
     
  28. abmk

    abmk G.O.A.T.

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    You both need to turn your sarcasm meter on .. That was just a sarcastic response to kiki's statement. I know kodes was a very good player, far far better than andreas seppi ...
     
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2013
  29. abmk

    abmk G.O.A.T.

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    and its also true that many of the so called old-timers, including you, belittle the players in the modern times without even watching/knowing much ....

    I mean seriously, hewitt wouldn't be top 10 in other eras ? seriously ?

    tell me seriously , have you watched any of these matches where hewitt played very well :

    vs sampras USO 2001 (sampras won only 8 games in 3 sets)
    vs kafelnikov USO 2001 (kafelnikov won only 4 games in 3 sets)
    vs sampras queens 2000 (straight-setted sampras)
    vs sampras YEC 2000 (bagelled sampras)
    vs roddick YEC 2004 ( won 20 points in a row ! )
    vs henman wimbledon 2002 ( dismantled henman there )

    etc ?
     
  30. abmk

    abmk G.O.A.T.

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    he might be , but needs to put a closure to that by taking over the #2 spot if he can ...

    he is definitely better on HC right now, but federer is still quite a bit better on clay and federer did win wimbledon last year beating djokovic/murray back to back .... yeah, murray did beat djokovic/federer back to back at the olympics, but wimbledon > olympics ...

    all of nadal's so called knee problems surfaced only after soderling beat him ...he was perfectly fine till then ...I'm inclined to disbelieve those injury excuses ... soderling played a brilliant match and took him out ...
     
  31. BobbyOne

    BobbyOne Banned

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    abmk, All what I write causes aggression from you. You always try to blame me for doubting Federer's lack of much touch. It's just not fair!

    To say it clearly: I have not seen many touch shots of Federer's.

    And all what I have seen from Hewitt (I concede: It was not too much) has not impressed me that much.
     
  32. NatF

    NatF G.O.A.T.

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    To say it clearly: In that case you haven't watched much Federer and you shouldn't comment.
     
  33. BobbyOne

    BobbyOne Banned

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    Naturally FEDERER: I live in a free country yet (Austria) and am free to post...A question specially for you and abmk:

    Could it be that I have not watched much Federer BECAUSE he did not show too many touch shots?!?!?
     
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2013
  34. NatF

    NatF G.O.A.T.

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    So grown up making a pun out of my username which is actually my nickname plus the first initial of my surname.Just for your information.

    It couldn't be the case because he's played a great many touch shots. Just accept you know nothing about Federer and stick to talking about top 10 all time great Rosewall.
     
  35. BobbyOne

    BobbyOne Banned

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    It's a difficult question for me: if you or abmk is more arrogant. I have not yet decided. But you both are in my all-time list...
     
  36. NatF

    NatF G.O.A.T.

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    Whats better to be ignorant or dishonest? Because you're either one or the other, or perhaps both.
     
  37. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    Yes Bobbyone you unmasked that clueless soul
     
  38. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    Abmk however has praised somehow Rosewall in some posts even if he did so to belittle Laver
    He is sure Kenny played great in 68 and 70 but a big hole ate him through 69
    Maybe he went to moon with Armstrong???
     
  39. abmk

    abmk G.O.A.T.

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    no, not at all , federer has amazing touch ..... you can ask pretty much anyone who has watched enough of federer and they'd tell you the same ...

    I posted multiple posts and plenty of videos of federer showing amazing touch, but you didn't respond to even one of them, did you ?

    Like I and many of the others have said, saying federer doesn't have touch shots is like saying rosewall's backhand sucked ... that is absurd it is ....

    see these posts for the videos :

    http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showpost.php?p=7250356&postcount=875

    http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showpost.php?p=7234698&postcount=303
     
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2013
  40. abmk

    abmk G.O.A.T.

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    it is fair .... saying federer lacks touch is like saying rosewall lacks a good BH ...how would you respond to someone who says that ?

    krosero has very high patience. I don't ....

    again, that's your fault or shortcoming ... I've seen plenty, plenty .....

    I've even posted many of those videos. See above ..

    again, your shortcoming , I've seen hewitt playing brilliantly many times and know he'd be top 10 in any era at his peak , no question ...
     
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2013
  41. abmk

    abmk G.O.A.T.

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    lol, BobbyOne will concur with me when I say that rosewall was quite a bit better in 68 and in 70 when compared to 69 .... didn't I already post that he was #2 in 68 , arguable #1 in 70 , but only #5 in 69 ?
     
  42. BobbyOne

    BobbyOne Banned

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    abmk, I never said Federer has no touch shots. I'm tired to answer your aggressive posts...
     
  43. BobbyOne

    BobbyOne Banned

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    You are right.
     
  44. abmk

    abmk G.O.A.T.

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    you said every player can play some touch shots and federer is one among these. just ordinary as far as touch shots go. That's not close to the reality at all ....

    that's like saying many players have good BHs and even rosewall could hit good BHs at times ...

    again, watch some of those videos .... they are short ones ....they showcase downright sick touch shots ...

    then get back ...
     
  45. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    I know ABMK motivation to denigrate Kodes
    He beat Amritraj, his country idol to win Wimbledon
    Had Vijay win it he would be praising W 73
    I also wish Vijay to win a major during his career, e had enormous talent and was so great watching...he , Lutz,Ramirez,Pecci and Mecir are among rhe greatest non slam players I remember
     
  46. Carsomyr

    Carsomyr Hall of Fame

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    Not everyone has the extreme national zealotry that you do. For instance, in the disputed years of the early 70s, I'm hardly loath to say Newcombe was better than Smith.
     
  47. abmk

    abmk G.O.A.T.

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    lol, I'm not a great fan of Vijay at all .....he was a talented player , but nowhere close to being one of the best not to win a major ....

    mecir, rios,nalbandian are the top 3 in the open era as far as that goes IMO ...
     
  48. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    I don' t have any national biass...well I like Australians but also players from different places
    BTW cold war did a lot of harm to " steorotiped" eastern guys like Kodes and Lendl, specially in the US fan market
     
  49. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    Do you really think that Borg,Nastase and Connors ´d play a Mickey Mouse event? really?
     
  50. abmk

    abmk G.O.A.T.

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    actually, top players that time played far more mickey mouse events than the top players do now ....

    borg was just 17 and playing his first wimbledon , was 3 years away from his grass court prime...Only someone like you can use his name to pump up the joke of a field that was 1973 wimbledon ..
     

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