American Greed-Usta style part 2

Discussion in 'Adult League & Tournament Talk' started by chatt_town, Mar 12, 2013.

  1. chatt_town

    chatt_town Hall of Fame

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    So some just told me that their team isn't attending state in Augusta this year because they will only have 8 players on Friday 10 on Saturday and 8 on Sunday. The reason they aren't going is there is a new rule that says if you forfeit a match your team has to cough up 100 bucks per forfeit right at the time of the forfeit. Someone may have addressed this already but it's the first time I've ever heard of it. Is this rule in effect in other states. Not sure what the rule is in Tennessee. I have to ask our local coordinator. It will be a cold day in hell before they collect any money from me like that. lol
     
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  2. Sumo

    Sumo Semi-Pro

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    Think about the amount of money their would be opponent is out just to sit there and watch.

    They have to do something to discourage it.
     
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  3. bcart1991

    bcart1991 Semi-Pro

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    Pretty sure that was in effect last time I was at states. My soccer leagues have had that rule forever, it prevents teams from wasting everyone's time.
     
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  4. chatt_town

    chatt_town Hall of Fame

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    Yea but to fine a team for "any" forfeit when they are struggling just to be there with 8 players? That's lame as hell. now entire teams will just choose not to come at all like this woman's team. So that's going to happen a lot more than they will get to fine teams. Teams won't come now unless they have at least 14 committed and you know how that is particularly on a Friday.

     
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  5. tenniscasey

    tenniscasey Semi-Pro

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    Agreed. This $100 fine sounds like a great idea to me. If anything, it should be higher.
     
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  6. beernutz

    beernutz Hall of Fame

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    I think I read in an faq on the atlanta usta website that the fine would be applied to the team captain. If true that will make it even harder to find people willing to captain teams.
     
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  7. JLyon

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    $100 for forfeiting a match is ridiculous, now if it was a full team default then so be it, but you bring 8 or 9 players and you have injuries, it is just stupid. Some places can only filed 8-10 players when no located in a metro area.
    Teams will be then tossing their players onto the court play a game or even a pt and then retire, fine no forfeit but still wasted time according to some of you.
     
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  8. tenniscasey

    tenniscasey Semi-Pro

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    If your numbers are that thin, you shouldn't field a team.
     
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  9. chatt_town

    chatt_town Hall of Fame

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    That's exactly what's going to happen. You'll have people wheeled onto the court and play a point and then retire to avoid the fine. It's just another way to fck people out of money. This is only going to turn people more against playing usta.


     
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  10. chatt_town

    chatt_town Hall of Fame

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    O that's exactly what's about to happen. The state tourney will start to thin out some. People don't believe it until their numbers start suffering. I remember when i first started playing. We use to attend this one tourney...and the lady would talk to people any kind of way...I mean was real nasty. Well their numbers were 245...230 220. Well after some 8 years later. The numbers are down to 91 and 104. 135 on a good weekend. There are people that find a way to spend more money to go to a tourney in Kiawah just because they will not be treated like crap. The numbers have already fallen off here in Tenn. I could remember when there would be 6 men's 4.0 teams with 16 man roster's that's down to 2 teams now. So they will keep finding ways to shaft people and people will keep fining new ways to play Tennis.


     
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  11. spot

    spot Hall of Fame

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    It seems like the right rule to me. If you can't field a full lineup then sit out and let another team go in your place. If I were doing the rule I would likely give a team one "free" one just in case someone got injured but I don't think that is at all a bad rule. In the past there used to be a ton of defaults, particularly once teams looked unlikely to advance. Better to send the teams that can field a full lineup for all their matches.
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2013
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  12. bcart1991

    bcart1991 Semi-Pro

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    I agree. If you can't field a full team for the weekend, don't bother coming. I've had teams that qualified not go because of a lack of players. Stuff happens, people get busy.

    We're not professionals, despite what our mind's eye sees.
     
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  13. Spokewench

    Spokewench Semi-Pro

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    People often travel to sectionals, other teams are expecting to play when they pay a lot of money to get to and stay at sectoinals/state, they are trying to keep the opponents from having to spend a lot of money to play no tennis. There are two sides to this issue. I personally believe that they should have waivers to this rule in case someone gets hurt; this is unforeseen. Not having enough members because they just don't show is not
     
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  14. arche3

    arche3 Banned

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    I don't get adults traveling to play rec tennis. Usta is taken too seriously by some. Tennis is fun but I'm not going to travel to play some other hack.
     
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  15. JLyon

    JLyon Hall of Fame

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    Really so tell the small towns to screw off because they are not like you and your mega team of 20+ guys who all want to win some towel and brag about how they are they best players of the lower 10% of all Tennis Players. Wow with that view no wonder people do not want to play USTA tennis. Must be hard for you to stomach the small town folks playing
     
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  16. schmke

    schmke Professional

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    Then just play your local league and don't worry about area/district/sectional playoffs. The fact that a team from your local league will advance doesn't change your ability to enjoy playing local players in some fun and competitive play.
     
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  17. spot

    spot Hall of Fame

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    I think the whole idea of "nationals" for rec tennis is completely ridiculous so I really have no problem with it if small town players feel disadvantaged in trying to advance to nationals.

    USTA should be designed to give a good experience for local play. If they can put on successful tournaments past that then those are just bonus and priority should be given to teams that can field a full lineup.
     
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  18. gameboy

    gameboy Hall of Fame

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    There is no "right" for anyone playing USTA to play in playoffs. Frankly, I think it just hurts the game.

    If you cannot field the team, do not go. And no one is going to shed a tear for such injustice.
     
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  19. OrangePower

    OrangePower Hall of Fame

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    +1. It should be all about local play and the rest if any is gravy.
     
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  20. beernutz

    beernutz Hall of Fame

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    I'm in favor of the new rule if the penalty money for the forfeit goes to the team which actually showed up to play. Forfeit party!
     
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  21. 10sjunkie

    10sjunkie New User

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    NC has had this rule for several years. At first, I didn't agree with it, until I spent several hundred dollars to attend a state championship out of town and had the opposing team default a court that I was supposed to play. Very frustrating. The powers that be in NC have said that the number of defaults at the state championships has been greatly reduced...from 40+ at a tournament a few years ago to an average of 2 now. If that pisses off one or two people, it seems worth it to me. Oh, and they donate any default fees to a local charity that the host city's committee chooses.
     
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  22. beernutz

    beernutz Hall of Fame

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    Well that is not quite as sexy as a forfeit party but I'm on board with that too.
     
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  23. JLyon

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    I would prefer they donate the fees towards the winning teams travel funds for Sectional/Nationals, but that is just me.
     
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  24. chatt_town

    chatt_town Hall of Fame

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    Exactly...This nonsense about not fielding a team is totally different from someone twisting an ankle...Also if they were so concerned about others not coming their spending money and not playing tennis...where is the refunds when it rains people out. They aren't concerned about anyone but themselves.

     
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  25. tennis_ocd

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    Ironically, what would be usta greedy is taking team's $$ while not doing the utmost to guarantee them matches.
     
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  26. chatt_town

    chatt_town Hall of Fame

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    No, but you can go over board with it. It isn't really called for to have a fine tact on when you know a team has had an injury. You will lose more money.


     
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  27. storypeddler

    storypeddler Semi-Pro

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    I understand your point, but I have to side with the players on other teams who DID take the time off and paid to travel and for rooms in another state, only to learn they wouldn't have a match anyway because some opposing players stayed home. I play in the Southern section and it is always made clear to us that if we cannot field a full team for every match at District, we will be fined as a team and can't play again until the fine is paid. This rule came about because of trifling, selfish players and teams who would win their league, say they were going to District tournament---thus denying another team the chance to go, and then end up forfeiting courts because some of their players would rather go to the beach that weekend or something. Other times, teams lose their first two matches, realize they cannot advance out of their pool, and players pack it in and simply go home early, leaving other teams with no opponents. I have seen entire teams do this. Then, in addition to the injustice done to their next opponent, it screws up all the scoring and tie-breaks and nobody gets treated fairly. All because some players are selfish. I have no pity for teams that get fined for those reasons. Bottom line---make sure you have enough players committed to going and playing or bow out and let another team go who DOES have a full roster.
     
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2013
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  28. storypeddler

    storypeddler Semi-Pro

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    If it is an injury issue, have your injured players stand on the court long enough for a point to be played and then retire. That isn't the issue behind the rule. It is to deal with teams who don't care if they inconvenience other teams with their selfish decisions.
     
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  29. storypeddler

    storypeddler Semi-Pro

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    I have never seen a District tournament that couldn't come up with enough teams to fill a bracket. Believe me, if you can't come up with 10 players to go, they will offer your slot to the second or third place team from another city and they will be only too happy to take your place. Playing at District is an honor you earn by winning your league. Lots of players have played league for years and never gotten the chance to play at District. You don't have to go---but if you DO go, you have to have a full team ready to compete. That seems extremely reasonable to me.
     
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