Ancient Aliens

Discussion in 'Odds & Ends' started by TennisLovaLova, May 11, 2013.

  1. JRAJ1988

    JRAJ1988 Hall of Fame

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    I once studied Graham Hancock's "Fingerprints of the Gods" that he gave evidence that there was during and before the ice age an advanced global civilization....then the ice caps melted via a massive catastrophe where the sea levels rose by hundreds of feet which could relate the to the "Great Flood" narrative. Ever wondered why most religions and cultures speak of this "Flood"?

    Mainstream Scientists or Geologists won't accept any of this or even research these theories because it has either religious connotations or others connotations which puts evolution into question. I'm just an open minded spiritualist though :)
     
  2. Nostradamus

    Nostradamus G.O.A.T.

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    We need a way to look on back side of the moon LIVE. There is a Alien base there that our government is hiding
     
  3. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

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    There were many Ice Ages and many floods and many mass extinctions. There is nothing that puts evolution into question. Every single objection has been debunked but the problem is if you don't know that, you start from scratch every time. Since the "evidence" is cloaked in pseudo-science, you cannot know whether it is BS, unless you search for the counterargument which was made decades ago. But then a new book will come out for a new generation of suckers, and it goes on and on. Evolution basically ends religion as we commonly know it, and that puts a lot of people out of business and power. I believe the latest fashionable thing is to claim that evolution was itself designed by a higher power. Which is more scary than someone having designed everything in the first place, because it implies somebody has started an experiment to see what happens and is laughing away.

    What makes you think what he gave was "evidence?" It is now clear that all of Danicken's evidence was BS. I believe the latest editions now state that it is a work of fiction. If the guy you mention can actually produce an artifact from an ancient advanced civilization, we would have heard of it by now.

    A nice example I was reading was a claim that an ancient civilization used light bulbs with filaments. Not a single part has been found in any excavation. Rather, the picture they show was of a sacred lotus flower which was part of their mythology and occurs in other contexts. But that will never be mentioned.

    There is a MIT mathematician who put it brilliantly. The basic difference is that science does not wallow in mystery. It sees if the mystery can be at least partially resolved. Scientific method is not about hypothesis and testing and conclusion as presented to most people. It is about the attitude not to wallow in mystery and not to take anything for granted.
     
  4. Sentinel

    Sentinel Bionic Poster

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    Poor suckers have been living in the dark for a long time.
     
  5. Sentinel

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    I know only of TWO mass extinctions and those happened prior to man. Which are the other ones ?
     
  6. Sentinel

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    suresh, see Prometheus.
     
  7. tusharlovesrafa

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    i have seen it and i liked it.My dad was telling me movies from Ridley scot are great but he was left disappointed after watching the movie saying aliens in the second half spoiled the fun.:)
     
  8. Nostradamus

    Nostradamus G.O.A.T.

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    Who or What created our Universe ?

    Man is just part of our universe. Real question is who or What created our Universe ?:shock: Mankind is part of our universe, right ? Just as we try to figure out what the heck or where the heck we come from, it is as though our universe is trying to figure itself out. Carl Sagan said this once and it is so true.

    This idea of time and space still puzzles us. We only know linear space and time, because it is all we know. but Before our universe happened thru Big bang, Time did NOT exist. So you have to think outside of the box and think what if NO time NO space exists, then what happens ? and What does that really mean ? When we figure this out, we truly would have advance one more step in truly understanding out existence.
     
  9. Sentinel

    Sentinel Bionic Poster

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    suresh, see Easy Rider ... Jack Nicholson's fireside talk.
     
  10. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

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    It is amazing how many people will read anything but a biology textbook. I am looking at my son's textbook right now:

    One mass extinction after the Ordovician: 57% of species gone
    After the devonian: 50% gone
    After the Permian: 83% gone
    After triassic: 48% gone
    After Cretaceous: 50% gone (including dinosaurs)
     
  11. Nostradamus

    Nostradamus G.O.A.T.

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    Will there be a event where 80-90 % of Mankind will be wiped out off the earth so we have to start all over.
     
  12. Sentinel

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    If you read my post, i was asking, not challenging. I do not have a biology text book with me and what they taught in school never covered this stuff. Our bio curriculum was repeated 8 years in a row.

    I was referring to two mass extinctions which were in the 95 to 99% range IIRC. Thanks for the details, i will see if google helps.
     
  13. Sentinel

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    I have often wondered about the latter part. How would the survivors start over? Most of us don't even know how to grow stuff. Where would food and water come from -- at least for those of us far away from natural sources.

    What about disposing off the dead ? Won't there be an outbreak of disease.

    Won't the survivors just fight each other for what they have, or fight over whatever can be looted ?
     
  14. Nostradamus

    Nostradamus G.O.A.T.

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    Humans have funny way of finding a way to co-operate when needed. and finding a way to grow or hunt whatever animals needed to live. Mankind is very inventive and survival oriented animal.
     
  15. Sentinel

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    Yeah, but i can't survive without Brazilian coffee and the highest grade imported dark chocolate at least 72%, not to mention 20 year old Scotch.

    A post-apocalyptic world certainly ain't for me.
     
  16. Nostradamus

    Nostradamus G.O.A.T.

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    You will have to hunt like ancestors did. Hunt deer and wild dog meat. Eat berries off the tree and bring home Oxnard meat for your mate in the hut.
     
  17. Sentinel

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    ^ In Oblivion (2013), most of the people allegedly starved.
     
  18. Nostradamus

    Nostradamus G.O.A.T.

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    I thought the people were killed by the Drones and tom Cruise clones ?
     
  19. Sentinel

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    According to Morgan Freeman, most of them starved. Later those who remained were killed off by TC clones, and the Drones.

    Anyway, don't post spoilers. We want sureshs to see it.
     
  20. max

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    The smart money's on the cockroaches.
     
  21. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

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    You must have a bio text book with you all the time. It is the only true source of knowledge.

    I also did not know this stuff from school since bio standards were low in those days and evolution was deliberately left out for secondary (till 10th grade) education. That is why I had to reeducate myself as an adult.
     
  22. Power Player

    Power Player G.O.A.T.

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    Such a great point.

    Now imagine living back then with no information sharing and a huge class division.

    Somehow you (say a lower class citizen) are in a situation where you get to visit this area and see this monument for the first time. Your mind would be blown to pieces, as it is still incredibly striking to this day.

    But in todays world, we are able to build giant skyscrapers in the matter of years, some even months. To me that is also very impressive, it is just not as appreciated.
     
  23. Sentinel

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    You could be right about the first part, but are ignorantly painting everyone with a broad brush in the end due to your own atheist stand.

    Many of these were expressions of art and many kings and rich people were patrons of the arts as well as sciences. Also, many religious monuments were expressions of love for God (which i don't suppose you could understand) and had nothing to do with someone's self aggrandizement.

    If I had to guess, I'd rather say one creates a monument to God or Jesus or the Buddha as self-effacement and not self promotion.

    There may well be cases of people promoting "divine right of kings" -- i remember reading that in school, but that does not go for everyone.

    Some notable cases did use slave labour and they were worked to death, but that cannot be used as an argument against all ancient / medieval architecture. A king's responsibilities also include preservation of culture and keeping his people together and keeping their spirits up. I suppose a beautiful church or mosque could be a matter of pride for the people too.

    In case the workers were paid, then you are actually generating jobs even if it is just a monument to God.
     
  24. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

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    Already covered in #47

    Same trick as announcing big public projects in an election year.
     
  25. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

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    The Kings who built them were also killing others in large numbers. Doesn't sound like much love of any kind.

    The exception is probably Ashoka, who "changed" after the bloody wars. It was pretty convenient for him too, since he had already won the wars. If he had lost, would he have taken up non-violence and Buddhism? I don't think so.
     
  26. max

    max Hall of Fame

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    I agree entirely: God is the most important thing, hence, use your treasure and talents to serve him. Makes sense here.

    It's interesting how much community concern there was in France for rebuilding the old churches after WW 2, and how much present day interest there is in making churches beautiful.
     
  27. maleyoyo

    maleyoyo Rookie

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    Assuming you are a Buddhist, what do you think Buddha would say to those kings who exploited and enslaved a whole lot of people to build extravagant monuments to express the love for him?
     
  28. Nostradamus

    Nostradamus G.O.A.T.

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    There is no God as we think of God. but there is something that created our Universe and universes that we can't see that are interconnected. What created all this is mystery, however. I only say this based on model that our universe was created. There seem to be a pattern of creation and re-creation. I have to assume the same for our universal model as well.
     
  29. sureshs

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    Interesting thing is that Buddha was vehemently against the building of statues of religious leaders and gods which was quite common in his time. However, after his passing, his followers realized that the symbolism was very useful and erected the biggest religious statues in the world!
     
  30. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

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    Yes the idea of god as a personalized compassionate tough-love entity who treats us like kids, withholds information from us, creates us and then takes no responsibility for actions he does not like and punishes us, who plays a game which causes suffering so that he can be happy when we become pure, causes near mishaps so that if we escape from them then we thank him for miracles without asking why he created the mishap in the first place, etc are childish concepts. There are things no one knows and it is best to acknowledge that, and keep looking, instead of pretending that all answers have already been revealed.
     
  31. kalyan4fedever

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    +1, Buddha did not say to build anything for him, out of respect and love for his teachings, kings built thousands of buddhist temples. Many consider buddhism a sort of atheism which accepts no god but which has some laid out principles on how to lead a life.

    Apparently the thing with atheists is they finally agree to the concept of god at one or other point of time in their lives definitely. They cant explain existence of order in nature, the existence of different conditions for different living beings(some may born handicapped, some who has everything).
     
  32. max

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    "economic reductionism", grasshopper.
     
  33. max

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    This is creating a strawman that's easy to flounce. Take better care with the description next time.
     
  34. Nostradamus

    Nostradamus G.O.A.T.

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    Yes, agree wholeheartedly. We have to keep looking for answers and the ultimate truth. It is out there for us to find. As Carl Sagan saids, it is as though the Universe wants understand itself and wants us to find it. Universe is part of us and we are part of the whole. That is a wonderful thing.
     
  35. mrDUDE1

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    Occam's razor...
    It makes many assumptions to say that there are infinitely many universes that we can't observe
    Of course Occam's razor is just a theory but it holds true in many other applications so why not here?

    To me, God existing is the only scientific explanation left using Occam's Razor
    Now without it, sure String Theory and the Matrix and Ancient Aliens and Reptoids and Xenu could've all existed, but we don't know for sure
     
  36. mrDUDE1

    mrDUDE1 New User

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    I think we would all benefit greatly from reading more about the 'fine tuning' of Earth. I don't personally believe in aliens because of this fine-tuning that is present in our universe. Whether you are a person of faith or an atheist I think it's interesting to observe the conditions that we live in.

    Did it ever occur to you that there actually was a flood and people just liked to write stories about it? If that society before the ice age was so advanced then how did they all just drown? Surely they were advanced enough to fish
    By the way, the biblical tale of noah's ark talks about a local mesopotamian flood not a worldwide one.

    Evolution really doesn't make sense at all... How many 'missing links' have scientists actually found? None

    How many people think it makes sense that humans are the only organized ones on this planet? Do you see monkeys talking on forums contemplating the nature of our universe? No, because
    there is a fundamental difference between humans and other beings on this planet. We can think about our origins and ask questions.

    Sure monkeys and dolphins and other animals can think and communicate and be 'smart and intelligent' but are they wise? Sure a dog realizes not to chew up the couh after you hit him a few times for doing it. Or not to touch the electric fence after getting shocked a few times. But does it understand why? No because it's a dog.
    It doesn't think, oh no I am causing my owner great distress. Why does this happen? I should do it again and analyze his behaviors more closely and see what upsets him exactly.
    It thinks, "ow. woof woof. ow. woof. ow!!! Maybe i shouldnt do that anymore"
     
  37. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

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    How many missing links do you want to be found? Do you know the conditions for fossil formation? The plant or animal has to be covered with sediment as soon as it dies before bacterial decomposition starts, and the place must remain undisturbed for thousands of years while the organic material is slowly replaced by minerals. Most life does not leave fossils, and many fossils are permanently lost as they are buried under man-made structures. Did you expect a complete line of fossils to be neatly preserved for your enjoyment? Do you think you will leave behind a fossil when you die? Most people cannot even find physical proof of the existence of their ancestors from a few generations back.

    At least your other point has some merit. Humans think about life and death and their origins and it is unique. There is some room for debate here. Animals sometimes show grief at death, and even octopii show awareness of their bodies. My thinking is that the more complex the brain, the deeper the thinking, and the greater the self-awareness. Apart from brain complexity, there does not seem to be anything special. It is just more hardware and hence more software. Humans have many questions and only some answers,telling me that the complex brain hasn't helped much.
     
  38. max

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    . . . say, TW administrators. . . this is getting to be yet another "suresh rant".
     
  39. Sentinel

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    He would have not felt good about either of the two.

    I can't comment on the 'why' or purpose of each one, and absolutely agree if there has been enslavement and exploitation - which i know happened in some cases, but was questioning whether it happened in all. Somehow, once again people went for the worst case.

    Second, it seems that after His passing, perhaps centuries later a devotional line arose. This did happen in Tibet for example, and i don't know when Buddhism started there, but some people date it to Padmasambhava many centuries later (8th century???). Also, rituals and complex practices seem to have found their way in.
     
  40. sureshs

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    Buddhism as you and I understand it is way different from how it is perceived in other parts of Asia. I realized that several years ago when I visited a Buddhist temple here of Taiwanese heritage. For us, Buddha was a dude (as per legend) from whom Buddhism started. For them, that Buddha, called Siddharta Gautama or the Shakya Muni, is one in a line of many Buddhas before and after. So there was a lot of changes that probably happened as the religion traveled. The Tibetan Buddhist artifacts that I have seen in a museum here are what you mention - they are basically our devas and devis with different names, but those don't seem to show up in other parts of Asia.

    Many people don't know that "Zen" is nothing but "Chan" which is nothing but the Sanskrit "Dhyan" which the Chinese found hard to pronounce.
     
  41. kalyan4fedever

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    Buddhism is a great religion, not todays buddhism ofcourse!!! Buddha told not to hurt any animal and be a vegetarian. But in modern buddhism this is followed like 1% of total buddhist population. If you ask any buddhist, they will talk about some broke down principles like they should not see the animal suffer but they can eat! Not to mention its way worse in countries like china, japan where people have a habit of eating everything that moves. Actually Buddha was born much much earlier than wiki makes you believe (not 563 BC)

    Buddha was the 23rd in the Ikshvaku lineage, and was a contemporary of Kshemajita, Bimbisara, and Ajatashatru. Buddha was 72 years old in 1814 B.C. when the coronation of Ajatashatru took place. Thus, the date of Buddha's birth must have been near 1887 B.C., and his death in 1807 B.C, there are multiple evidences supporting this theory and go in accordance with lineage of siddhartha
     
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2013
  42. sureshs

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    Historical sources put Buddha in the 6th century BCE.

    His death is attributed to food poisoning either due to mushrooms or pork.
     
  43. Sentinel

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    You have the last part right. I think from Dhyana it goes to Jhana (which is the prakrit or pali term since the common man also found Sanskrit hard to pronounce and therefore the Buddha preferred to use Pali terms), and then to Chan and finally Zen.

    It seems Buddhism evolved as it went, with two schools in China - the northern and the southern, one went for Instant Enlightenment and one for gradual. (I am enormously simplifying the whole thing, I read only a little long back). Those chaps fought a lot and even killed each other over becoming the head of their sect. I remember reading about the last or second last Patriarch in China. It's quite amazing for an Indian (even non-B) to read about these B monks killing each other to ascend to a position.

    In Tibet, it seems they have added so much (bardos and all kinds of stuff). They claim to have a lineage or descendancy (like avatars) so that they can increase their knowledge of death and beyond. This way they claim they know more than their predecessors since the knowledge is accumulating. They also are not interested in working for their enlightenment - since they feel they will not be able to help others if they are enlightened. They prefer to delay it and remain just on the edge.

    However, the Buddha was enlightened so I don't see how that logic works. As far as He was concerned only an enlightened person could help others. He was careful in selecting his teachers who had to be arahats.

    That said, I do think that B'ism actually flourished in the far east more than in India. In India B'ism is just a hereditary religion not a true practice. There are no B'ist Masters in India to guide interested students. At least in China, Korea and Japan, one hears of Masters who passed down the actual practice, selected enlightened students to continue. Today, for example, we have Thich Nhat Hanh from the East (and many others who are not famous).

    The Vipassana (Vipashyana in Skt.) that is taught today (founded by SK Goenka) is quite a modification even of the Burmese Master that he took from. And even that does not tally with the Buddha's own teachings. SK Goenka seems to have modified what he took from a Master, whereas he himself (SKG) was not enlightened and has/had some very funny theories of his own which completely undermine his credibility.

    I would therefore not consider Vipassana to reflect on the health of Buddhism in India or elsewhere.
     
  44. Sentinel

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    I thought the Buddha was a contemporary of Mahavir. Somewhere i once read that he heard of Mahavir's passing.

    This is the first time I am hearing of this.
     
  45. KineticChain

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  46. spaceman_spiff

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    Don't you find it at odds with the teachings of Jesus (preaching humility, poverty, mercy, charity, etc.) to use treasures and talents to build elaborate temples rather than for more charitable ventures?

    For example, wouldn't it be more beneficial to society to use said treasures to build more homeless shelters, schools, and hospitals than to make huge, elaborate cathedrals?
     

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