And before 1910, who was the best?

Discussion in 'Former Pro Player Talk' started by Q&M son, May 22, 2008.

?

WhBefore 1910, who was better?

Poll closed Apr 22, 2010.
  1. W. Renshaw

    9 vote(s)
    28.1%
  2. E. Renshaw

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  3. J. Pim

    2 vote(s)
    6.3%
  4. W. Baddeley

    2 vote(s)
    6.3%
  5. R. Doherty

    1 vote(s)
    3.1%
  6. L. Doherty

    12 vote(s)
    37.5%
  7. W. Larned

    4 vote(s)
    12.5%
  8. Other

    2 vote(s)
    6.3%
  1. Q&M son

    Q&M son Professional

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    So, what do you think? (Ok, we can include 1910...)
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2009
    #1
  2. Leelord337

    Leelord337 Hall of Fame

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    I have no earthly idea
     
    #2
  3. Tony Sideway

    Tony Sideway Banned

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    William Renshaw
     
    #3
  4. Jim Courier fan

    Jim Courier fan New User

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    Laurie!--------------
     
    #4
  5. chaognosis

    chaognosis Semi-Pro

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    H.L. Doherty.

    Absolutely no question about it.
     
    #5
  6. Snuh

    Snuh Rookie

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    This reminds me of something that Grandpa Simpson and Mr. Burns could answer.
     
    #6
  7. urban

    urban Hall of Fame

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    Jules Verne. Not really kidding (only a bit), because in the old times, it was costum, to use an alias-name. The early Wimbledon draw is filled with famous names of poets and artists. So Jules Verne indeed played some Wimbledons. The most prominent of those false contenders was the finalist of 1878, a certain St. Leger Goold. Later he became a murderer, and was rightfully beaten by a priest, the reverend Hartley. In earnest one of the Dohertys, i think Laurie, who however was frail, and Brookes.
     
    #7
  8. Tennisfan!

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    "Laurie" Doherty!
     
    #8
  9. chaognosis

    chaognosis Semi-Pro

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    Laurie may have been frail, but he was robust compared to his brother.

    And I would also rate Brookes just after after H.L. (and maybe R.F.).
     
    #9
  10. Murray_Maniac

    Murray_Maniac Banned

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    This quetion can't really be answered because: 1. Nearly everyone who was around then is gone. 2. Those still alive probably wouldnt post in the tw forums.
    3. No vids of this time is on youtube.
     
    #10
  11. chaognosis

    chaognosis Semi-Pro

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    A. Wallis Myers, the most respected tennis journalist of his era, ranked H.L. Doherty as Tilden's equal (in the early 1930s). Norman Brookes--who competed against both Laurie and Tilden--said in the 1950s that Tilden and the Dohertys were the top three players ever. In 1969, both Harry Hopman and Lance Tingay listed H.L. Doherty among the top ten players of all time. In his book Tennis Styles and Stylists (also 1969), Paul Metzler reports that many people close to the game felt that players steadily improved up to the time of the Dohertys, but after that there was very little real development in players, the main advances being rather in technology. So while we may lack video clips, we do have some weighty written accounts.
     
    #11
  12. Q&M son

    Q&M son Professional

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    Totally agree.
    And very sorry for not put Brookes on the list. :(
     
    #12
  13. jmsx521

    jmsx521 Hall of Fame

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    Napoleon was ruthless... and won a lot!
     
    #13
  14. pabletion

    pabletion Professional

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    Roger Federer's great grandfather, Joey Federer, but records of that age are scrappy and all of his results were lost in a fire.....
     
    #14
  15. superstition

    superstition Hall of Fame

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    We have a winner!
     
    #15
  16. llgc8080

    llgc8080 Rookie

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    W. Renshaw was great, maybe Laurie Doherty or Brookes were greatest, but I choose William.
     
    #16
  17. Vermillion

    Vermillion Banned

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    Jared J. Pim was the best
     
    #17
  18. TennisExpert

    TennisExpert New User

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    "Laurie" Doherty
     
    #18
  19. JoshDragon

    JoshDragon Hall of Fame

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    William Regal or King Booker.
     
    #19
  20. counter_puncher

    counter_puncher Banned

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    i just picked a random guy.
     
    #20
  21. Tennisfan!

    Tennisfan! Rookie

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    #21
  22. DonBudge

    DonBudge New User

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    Laurie, then you should add Brookes to the poll.
     
    #22
  23. Q&M son

    Q&M son Professional

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    I should make the thread "Best before WWI", and includes Brookes and Wilding.

    A greta summary of this era can be founded here, in the Borgfoerever's thread about Laurie Doherty.
     
    #23
  24. Q&M son

    Q&M son Professional

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    #24
  25. timnz

    timnz Hall of Fame

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    Why 1910 cut off?

    Of course you can open a thread in anyway you like? Just curious why you chose 1910. I would have thought a more natural cut-off would have been 1914 (start of world war 1), no tennis was played of any consequence for 5 years or so starting then.

    IF, you had made it 1914 being the cut-off I would have said that it was a toss up between H.L Doherty or Tony Wilding. Probably the former winning. (Though I think that Wilding's peak clay court tennis would have been better).
     
    #25
  26. Q&M son

    Q&M son Professional

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    Simply as lack of knowledge...
     
    #26
  27. timnz

    timnz Hall of Fame

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    Wilding

    Wilding was unbeaten on clay for 4 years or so - 1910 to 1914. No one in history has matched that.

    But from seeing the threads about H.L Doherty he seems to be a player held in very high esteem.
     
    #27
  28. Q&M son

    Q&M son Professional

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    Yes timnz, I believe "now" (after reading a lot) that will be very close between those two greats.
     
    #28
  29. Borgforever

    Borgforever Hall of Fame

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    Timnz -- H. L. was undefeated on clay 1900-1906, seven years straight and retired undefeated. But since he lost against Ritchie in the 1907 Monte Carlo F (without any practice) he did suffer losses after his "retirement" although he didn't officially announce his retirement until, I think April 23rd or something 1907 -- a few weeks after Monte...

    Borg was arguably undefeated on clay from September 1976 (Jimbo USO F on green clay) to Vilas at Nations Cup at Düsseldorf 1980. That's four years.

    Although if we go by game-winning percentage domination I think that it's safe to say that both Wilding and Borg surpasses H. L.'s game-winning-percentage/domination-prowess.

    However H. L. had very weak health. Had TBC vaccine been readily available during the Doherty's reign I just wonder if he couldn't have been even more dominant.

    And H. L.'s records indoors, grass and in international events also, cumulatively, surpass Wilding's record.

    Although I haven't studied Tony to a great extent -- his levels and records are so fierce I am reserving a ranking spot for him on my GOAT-list.

    Wilding has several things going for him. His 1913 is a GOAT-year. His DC-record is impressive. His 4 Wimbys -- almost five in a row like R. F. -- both lost -- arguably -- because of failing physical prowess.

    Myers was quite clear that peak Wilding of 1913 could've beaten peak Tilden.

    No small statement.

    And Wilding won a heck of a lot of fine tourneys too. Over a 100 of them.

    The only thing is that Wilding arguably had few years like 1913 -- how many and how good his best years were -- I would like to study more closely...

    I will recount his great Wimby 1913 final with "The California Comet" since it's an ultra-great showdown.

    Together with the 1905-final-match the 1913-final-match considered having the highest quality tennis in Wimbys first 50 years.
     
    #29
  30. vive le beau jeu !

    vive le beau jeu ! G.O.A.T.

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    this will sadly turn once again into a dogfight between renshtards and dohertards...


    ;)
     
    #30
  31. timnz

    timnz Hall of Fame

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    And....

    And Wildingtards!!
     
    #31
  32. ceberus

    ceberus Guest

    Lol this thread is win.
     
    #32
  33. vive le beau jeu !

    vive le beau jeu ! G.O.A.T.

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    [​IMG] yet another thread full of hatred to Wildingovic from another pathetic hater.
     
    #33
  34. timnz

    timnz Hall of Fame

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    How about rating the top 5 pre-world war 1 ?

    I would say

    H.L Doherty
    Wilding
    Reggie Doherty
    Larned
    Brookes

    In that order.
     
    #34
  35. hoodjem

    hoodjem G.O.A.T.

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    Why H.L of course, old bean.
     
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