Andy Murray to support Scottish independence...

Discussion in 'General Pro Player Discussion' started by Dutch-Guy, Mar 23, 2013.

  1. Dutch-Guy

    Dutch-Guy Legend

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  2. Homeboy Hotel

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    He's not said whether or not he is or isn't supporting Scottish independence.

    He is awaiting his agents at XIX Entertainment to do the cost-benefit analysis on whether it is better to say he is for or against it first before he officially states his opinion. (or shall I say, the opinion given to him by his agents)
     
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  3. IgnatusP

    IgnatusP Banned

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    That's insulting. I think Murray is old enough to not have to listen to any agents and just do what his Mum tells him.
     
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  4. Dutch-Guy

    Dutch-Guy Legend

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    The 2 most famous Scots Sean Connery and Sir Alex Ferguson are for it so i do you him being down too.
     
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  5. IgnatusP

    IgnatusP Banned

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    Let's be honest, everybody knows that nobody has as much weight on this (or any other issue regarding Scotland) as Fat B@stard does.

    [​IMG]
     
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  6. Phoenix1983

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    Murray will tank at Wimbledon this year and next.

    Then when Scotland is independent, he will storm to the title in 2015, draped in the Saltire. :twisted:
     
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  7. ark_28

    ark_28 Hall of Fame

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    Jokes aside Say if Scotland did get independence would Britains wait for a major winner be back to over 70 years or what would the deal be with that?
     
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  8. *Sparkle*

    *Sparkle* Professional

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    I don't know where you got that from. Alex Ferguson has donated to the pro-Union campaign and has been publicly critical of Alex Salmond.

    I think Murray will keep his mouth shut as best he can. He'll know he'll never be able to give a right answer, but perhaps more importantly, he probably won't want to be used and abused. It's a sad state of affairs that the campaigners place so much value on getting various celebs to publicly endorse their point of view, rather than actually debating the pros and cons.
     
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  9. batz

    batz G.O.A.T.

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    Sir Alex Ferguson is most definitely not 'for it'. I doubt that Murray will express a view.

    What is certain is that none of the 3 of them will be voting in the referendum.
     
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  10. Phoenix1983

    Phoenix1983 Hall of Fame

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    He won the US Open 2012 as a British citizen, so it would still count as a British win. Much as everything Lendl did when Czech still counts for Czechoslovakia, and what he did after changing nationality counts for the USA.
     
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  11. kishnabe

    kishnabe G.O.A.T.

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    Lendl did not win any slams for America.
     
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  12. Phoenix1983

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    Did I mention slams? I said whatever he did after changing nationality.

    If he had won a slam after becoming a US citizen, it would have counted as a slam win for the USA.
     
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  13. Mainad

    Mainad G.O.A.T.

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    Nope. Murray was a British citizen when he won his Major so that record will forever stand as a win for a Briton.

    If Scotland does become independent (which I doubt), then Murray will have to make a decision on whether he wants to stay British or become a Scottish citizen. If he chooses Scotland, then everything he does from that point on will be as a purely Scottish player rather than a British one.
     
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  14. IgnatusP

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    I hope if he does he doesn't start playing with a kilt. Things could get ugly fast... :)
     
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  15. Mainad

    Mainad G.O.A.T.

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    I think he might be in danger of getting disqualified for gross indecency if he started to run around the court in a kilt, especially if it's a windy day! :)
     
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  16. ark_28

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    Thanks it was a genuine question not aimed to cause a nuisance :)
     
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  17. Antonio Puente

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    In reality, it would only matter in terms of the gold medal. Professional tennis players play for themselves, not their countries.
     
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  18. Mainad

    Mainad G.O.A.T.

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    No probs. It was a perfectly reasonable question!
     
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  19. IgnatusP

    IgnatusP Banned

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    No kidding! :)

    I can picture a Benny Hill episode with girls in a tennis court running around in miniskirts in a breezy summer day, picking balls, etc. There are 3 judges (dirty old British men, one of them that bald old fella that Benny Hill always used to slap on the head). After each girl does something (pick a ball, etc), the judges look at each other and elbow each other, then produce scores like they have in the olympics for gymnastics.

    Then the girls go away and Benny Hill comes out as the Scottish field keeper. He's dressed with a kilt. The judges watch apprehensively as a big gust of wind blows Benny's kilt. One of the judges pulls out a bucket from under the table and pukes, the old fella pulls out a cane and he starts walking as if he just went blind, and the last fellow, who is kind of weird looking smiles at Benny and winks, then produces a scorecard with a 10. :)
     
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  20. CCNM

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    If Andy's smart he'll keep quiet about it.
     
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  21. Tanya

    Tanya Professional

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    Hopefully they do gain independence so Murray can stop playing both sides of the fence and actually decide on a nationality ;)
     
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  22. Antonio Puente

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    A Scot is a Brit every bit as much as an Anglo is. What exactly is it he should decide upon?
     
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  23. Mustard

    Mustard Talk Tennis Guru

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    It's simple enough. The island of Great Britain is made up of England, Wales and Scotland. Murray is from Scotland, so is Scottish and British. Likewise, I'm from Wales and am Welsh and British. Tim Henman is from England, so is English and British.
     
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  24. IgnatusP

    IgnatusP Banned

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    But isn't the point of Scottish independence that Scotland will be its own country apart from Britain? If not, what's going on?
     
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  25. Mainad

    Mainad G.O.A.T.

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    Yes, some Scots want to become completely independent of Britain. They will vote in a referendum on this in 2 years time.
     
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  26. Mustard

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    The official name of the country is the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, which is the island of Great Britain (England, Wales, Scotland) and Northern Ireland (6 of the 32 counties on the island of Ireland). The Scottish nationalists want to pull Scotland out of that union.

    I can't see Scottish independence happening, and I personally am opposed to the erection of new borders to divide the masses. We need to be breaking the borders down and show international solidarity against the capitalist ruling class, not to build new divisive borders. An independent capitalist Scotland would just be a tax haven for multinational corporation bosses like Rupert Murdoch and Donald Trump.
     
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  27. IgnatusP

    IgnatusP Banned

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    I actually agree. As long as cultural identity is not affected and some sort of limited independence in the management of government at a local level is granted, full independence is simply counterproductive. I think it's the same in some areas of Spain (Catalonia and some other places).
     
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  28. ark_28

    ark_28 Hall of Fame

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    You make that sound like it's a bad thing :confused: how is job creation and stimulating a floundering economy through capitalism ever a bad thing?
     
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  29. gsharma

    gsharma Professional

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    Question is, who will control the oil/natural resources? England doesn't care other than that and don't the Scots get a lot of money from England/Wales?
     
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  30. Mustard

    Mustard Talk Tennis Guru

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    Capitalism is about big business profit, and always has been. We are now in a capitalist slump, and big business does not want to lose its profits, so is forcing the masses to take the hit. People are suffering around the world in increasing numbers.
     
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  31. gsharma

    gsharma Professional

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    There is nothing wrong with Capitalism but there is a lot wrong with nationalizing losses of private companies. Regulators need to break up "too big to fail".
     
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  32. Antonio Puente

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    Some Catalans would prefer to be independent. Some Canadians would like to merge with the U.S. Doesn't mean it will pass. Chances are it won't.
     
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  33. Mustard

    Mustard Talk Tennis Guru

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    If the big banks had gone to the wall and not been saved by bailouts, the result would have made the 1930s Great Depression look like a picnic. The capitalist system is the problem. It is a fetter on society's further development due to private ownership of the means of production and the existence of national state borders. All it can offer today is austerity and falling living standards, except for the super-rich of course, who get tax cuts and thus become even richer still.

    What needs to be done is to nationalise those banks and big businesses, so that they can be planned in the interests of society instead of being used for the profits of a tiny, super-rich elite.
     
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  34. IgnatusP

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    Because tax havens never helped the little guy. :)
     
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  35. Lefty78

    Lefty78 Professional

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    Capitalism is also about people working hard to better their lives, and always has been.
     
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  36. IgnatusP

    IgnatusP Banned

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    Yes, absolutely true. When the big banks and lenders were near collapse in the U.S., "the government" bailed them out. Meaning, the government took money from every man, woman, and child, and gave it to companies which had already been pillaging systematically for years. That this scandal didn't lead to acute social discomfort is something I haven't yet understood. But I tend to blame it on the dumbing down of the masses.
     
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  37. IgnatusP

    IgnatusP Banned

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    Yeah, you are right. It probably won't. And I'm not sure it's either good or bad. All I know is that we will get screwed by the big corporate interests somehow no matter what. The best revenge is not give a damn sometimes. Death is the ultimate equalizer, and I sleep with the comfort of knowing that The Grim Reaper will soon harvest the likes of Warren Buffet, Bill Gates, and that guy that invented the Chia Pets. ;)
     
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  38. jaggy

    jaggy G.O.A.T.

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    The Murrays, Baker and Fleming for the Davis Cup team.
     
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  39. IgnatusP

    IgnatusP Banned

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    And when they win, none of that Politically Correct crap of dumping gatorade on the captain. Whiskey and a fistfight. :)
     
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  40. Mustard

    Mustard Talk Tennis Guru

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    Andy Murray doesn't play Davis Cup that much, really.

    Then why isn't there full employment and why aren't people working 20 hours or less a week for high wages, or taking their pension at 50, when the resources exist to do just that? Why instead are the people who are lucky enough to have jobs working harder than ever, for less money, and for longer, while millions are condemned to unemployment on poverty handouts or worse? Because big business squeezes every last penny/cent out of people to maximise its own profits.
     
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  41. Lefty78

    Lefty78 Professional

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    Commies, lol.
     
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  42. vernonbc

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    NO. Just a big fat NO. If that were ever to come to a referendum, it would have the biggest most lopsided result ever in the history of referendums!!! Trust me, there are very very few Canadians who would want to merge with the U.S. Canada is so much better in so many ways. :)
     
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  43. Antonio Puente

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    It depends on where you are in Canada. Not sure if BC stands for British Columbia or not, but I've read polls suggesting it's as high as 20% in parts of Canada. Obviously, 20%(in parts) couldn't pass a referendum, but the sentiment is there, which is why I used it as an example. Similarly, a portion of Scotland would prefer to be independent, but that's unlikely to happen as well.
     
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  44. vernonbc

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    I'm sorry, you're just wrong. The sentiment is absolutely not there. The vast majority of Canadians look at America these days and just feel sorry for them. They were smart enough to elect (and re-elect) a good president but dumb enough to allow the country to be gerrymandered so much that loony right wingers get elected to office even though the majority voted for the other party. Canadians who keep up with current events and aren't bedazzled by empty Hollywood glitz and glamour know that Canada is a better and happier country. American exceptionalism is a hollow tenet.
     
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  45. SFrazeur

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    For 20-somethings in America the two most famous Scots are Sean Connery and CRAIG Ferguson.

    -SF
     
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  46. IgnatusP

    IgnatusP Banned

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    As an American, I have to agree. There has been an exodus of emigrants to Canada lately as well. The quality of life in the U.S. is just not there anymore, and the country is not as healthy as it used to be. Many companies are dropping health care, and a basic health insurance policy costs (ironically) an arm and a leg. The price of real estate is unreasonable as well. I myself have been thinking about moving up North for a while.
     
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  47. *Sparkle*

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    I know. I've never understood the criticism that Andy is supposedly British when it suits him and that he needs to declare himself as either Scottish or British. Whether it suits him or not, he is always British, and always Scottish. He doesn't actually have any say in the matter.

    I think the problem is that some English people struggle with the difference between British and English, so get confused and think he's denied being British, when he only (quite rightly) pointed out he wasn't English a couple of times. You say a Yorkshireman is from Lancashire, and he'll correct you quickly enough, but for some reason if a Scot says he's not English, he doesn't want to be British.:?

    Great Britain is also a description of the land mass north of France, and east of Ireland, which won't change if Scotland becomes independent, so Scots will continue to be British, whether they like it or not. Just as Brits are all European, whether we like the EU or not, or even if we stay in the EU.
     
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  48. jaggy

    jaggy G.O.A.T.

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    I find the terms confusing but i think the land mass is actually The British Isles and not Great Britain. If Scotland leaves the union they would cease to be part of Great britain (I think).
     
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  49. Mustard

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    Great Britain is the biggest British Isle (hence the "Great"), the island on which the vast majority of England, Wales and Scotland lie. The term "The British Isles" refers to the island of Great Britain, the island of Ireland and all of the smaller islands in the area, such as Anglesey, the Isle of Man, Isle of Wight, Isles of Scilly etc. If Scotland becomes independent, the country would cease to be a part of the United Kingdom (the country), not Great Britain, because Great Britain is an island.
     
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2013
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  50. Benhur

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    vernonbc is absolutely right. The overwhelming majority of Canadians would oppose joining the US.

    What I think you are confusing it with is something else that I will try to explain. There has always existed in Canada something you could call the American Party of Canada (APC) (not a real party, but a kind state of mind) which consists of people that tend to fawn to the power of the US and tend to look up uncritically to almost all things American, and who have an overdevelopped sense of Canadian second-rateness. These people do exist; they are a small portion of the population of Canada, maybe 20%, I don't know. But the point I am trying to make is that even most of those people that belong to the ideological entity I call the APC, would be against joining the US. This kind of uncritical admiration does not translate into a desire to join them, but (at most) a desire to imitate them. And I would add that the behaviour of the US in the last decade of so has turned off even many of those people with a predisposition to admire them. In a referendum with a proposal to join the US, my guess is that something like 95% of Canadians would vote No.
     
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