Ano - Question Energy Supplement

Discussion in 'Health & Fitness' started by normrose, May 28, 2008.

  1. normrose

    normrose Rookie

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    Ano - could you suggest a good non liquid energy supplement to eat before playing tennis.

    I have been told glucose tablets can inhibt performance rather thn improve performance?

    I am aware of the liquid energy drinks such as powerade etc.

    Thanks in advance.
     
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  2. 10sfreak

    10sfreak Semi-Pro

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    normrose, I realize your query was directed to Ano, but may I make a suggestion? I just have a one of the "Ensure Plus" drinks, along with some added BCAAs (branched-chain amino acids). Seems to work pretty well for me...
     
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  3. BullDogTennis

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    just my .02 cents also.

    RedBull gives you wings.

    also myself wouldnt take any kind of energy supplement..ie-pills

    drinks like redbull is cool
    and like n.o. xplode before i work out
     
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  4. SystemicAnomaly

    SystemicAnomaly G.O.A.T.

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    Powerade, Gatorade and similar sports drinks products are primarily meant for hydration and for electrolyte replacement. They are not what one would normally consider energy drinks. Powerade has, however, in the past few years added some B vitamins (B3, B6 and B12), which do play something of a role in energy metabolism.

    Unlike BDT, I'm not at all a fan of Red Bull and similar energy drinks. (Perhaps the no-sugar version of Red Bull might be a slightly better choice). Some of the other energy drink products contain very high levels of caffeine in addition to high levels of sugar. This is a recipe for jitters, possible significant heart rate & blood pressure increases, and a letdown crash as the effects wear off.

    There are a handful of products that I do recommend (in order of preference): ProEndorphin, 5-Hour Energy, and 6 Hour Power. These all contain only moderate levels of caffeine and do not contain sugar. ProEndorphin is a powder drink mix while the other 2 products are 2 oz energy shots (but even 1 oz can produce some beneficial effects).
     
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  5. SystemicAnomaly

    SystemicAnomaly G.O.A.T.

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    One problem with highly-sugared energy drinks, like glucose tablets, could be the effect on blood sugar levels. If the products cause a significant spike in blood sugar levels, it could result in an over-compensating insulin response. If this happen, your blood sugar levels can drop to levels that are low enough to hinder mental & athletic performance.
     
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  6. chess9

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  7. Julieta

    Julieta Guest

    I like the Hammer products also. Many triathletes use them. The taste of the drinks is not so good but they do work.
     
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  8. LuckyR

    LuckyR Legend

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    I'm curious, what exactly is the "problem" that Energy products are designed to solve?

    It would seem to me that the properly hydrated, salt and carb loaded athlete, in the midst of an athletic activity, would have little to gain from an Energy drink.
     
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  9. chess9

    chess9 Hall of Fame

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    Lucky:

    1. How many carbs?
    2. How much salt?
    3. How much water;
    4. How many and what kind of mineral nutrients?
    5. How many calories?
    6. What should the osmolality of the mixture be?
    7. When should you eat?
    8. When should you hydrate?
    9. Which energy drinks are crap and which are quality?
    10. What kind of carbs/fatty acids should you eat? Sugar? Medium chain triglycerides? Long chains?
    11. How much, if any protein should you be taking?

    Just read some of the articles on Hammer's web site and you will see I have barely scratched the surface of this issue.

    Proper hydration and nutrition can make the difference between winning or being hospitalized...or worse. I've seen it all, and I do mean ALL.

    -Robert
     
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  10. LuckyR

    LuckyR Legend

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    I apologize for being too brief and vague. What I meant was: what problem scientifically is the athlete having without using an Energy drink? Too low of a blood sugar? Too low of an adrenaline level? Too few amino acids floating in your blood stream? What is the problem? Until the problem is identified, arguing about the merits of the solution is meaningless.
     
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  11. Ano

    Ano Hall of Fame

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    Robert, interesting study for you.

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17685703?ordinalpos=1&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_DiscoveryPanel.Pubmed_Discovery_RA&linkpos=1&log$=relatedarticles&logdbfrom=pubmed

    : J Strength Cond Res. 2007 Aug;21(3):678-84.

    Consumption of an oral carbohydrate-protein gel improves cycling endurance and prevents postexercise muscle damage.

    Saunders MJ, Luden ND, Herrick JE.

    Human Performance Laboratory, Department of Kinesiology, James Madison University, Harrisonburg, Virginia 22807, USA. saundemj@jmu.edu

    Investigators have reported improved endurance performance and attenuated post-exercise muscle damage with carbohydrate-protein beverages (CHO+P) versus carbohydrate-only beverages (CHO).

    However, these benefits have been demonstrated only when CHO+P was administered in beverage-form, and exclusively in male subjects.

    Thus, the purposes of this study were to determine if an oral CHO+P gel improved endurance performance and post-exercise muscle damage compared to a CHO gel, and determine if responses were similar between genders.

    Thirteen cyclists (8 men, 5 women; VO(2)peak = 57.9 +/- 7.0 ml x kg(-1) x min(-1)) completed two timed cycle-trials to volitional exhaustion at 75% of VO(2)peak.

    At 15-minute intervals throughout these rides, subjects received CHO or CHO+P gels, which were matched for carbohydrate content (CHO = 0.15 g CHO x kg BW(-1); CHO+P = 0.15 g CHO + 0.038 g protein x kg BW(-1)). Trials were performed using a randomly counterbalanced, double-blind design.

    Subjects rode 13% longer (p < 0.05) when utilizing the CHO+P gel (116.6 +/- 28.5 minutes) versus the CHO gel (102.8 +/- 25.0 minutes). In addition, men (101.8 +/- 24.6; 114.8 +/- 26.2) and women (104.4 +/- 28.6; 119.6 +/- 34.9) responded similarly to the CHO and CHO+P trials, with no significant treatment-by-gender effect.

    Postexercise creatine kinease (CK) was not significantly different between treatments.

    However, CK increased significantly following exercise in the CHO trial (183 +/- 116; 267 +/- 214 U x L(-1)), but not the CHO+P trial (180 +/- 133; 222 +/- 141 U x L(-1)).

    Therefore, to prolong endurance performance and prevent increases in muscle damage, it is recommended that male and female cyclists consume CHO+P gels rather than CHO gels during and immediately following exercise.

    PMID: 17685703 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
     
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  12. Ano

    Ano Hall of Fame

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    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15235331?ordinalpos=1&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_DiscoveryPanel.Pubmed_Discovery_RA&linkpos=1&log$=relatedarticles&logdbfrom=pubmed

    1: Med Sci Sports Exerc. 2004 Jul;36(7):1233-8.

    Comment in:

    Med Sci Sports Exerc. 2005 Jan;37(1):166; author reply 167.

    Effects of a carbohydrate-protein beverage on cycling endurance and muscle damage.Saunders MJ, Kane MD, Todd MK.

    School of Kinesiology and Recreation Studies, James Madison University, Harrisonburg, VA 22807, USA. saundemj@jmu.edu

    INTRODUCTION: The purpose of this study was to determine whether endurance cycling performance and postexercise muscle damage were altered when consuming a carbohydrate and protein beverage (CHO+P; 7.3% and 1.8% concentrations) versus a carbohydrate-only (CHO; 7.3%) beverage.

    METHODS: Fifteen male cyclists (mean (.-)VO(2peak) = 52.6 +/- 10.3 mL x kg x min) rode a cycle ergometer at 75% (.-)VO(2peak) to volitional exhaustion, followed 12 - 15 h later by a second ride to exhaustion at 85% (.-)VO(2peak). Subjects consumed 1.8 mL x kg BW of randomly assigned CHO or CHO+P beverage every 15 min of exercise, and 10 mL x kg BW immediately after exercise. Beverages were matched for carbohydrate content, resulting in 20% lower total caloric content per administration of CHO beverage. Subjects were blinded to treatment beverage and repeated the same protocol seven to 14 d later with the other beverage.

    RESULTS: In the first ride (75% (.-)VO(2peak)), subjects rode 29% longer (P < 0.05) when consuming the CHO+P beverage (106.3 +/- 45.2 min) than the CHO beverage (82.3 +/- 32.6 min). In the second ride (85% (.-)VO(2peak)), subjects performed 40% longer when consuming the CHO+P beverage (43.6 +/- 12.5 min) than when consuming the CHO beverage (31.2 +/- 8.7 min). Peak postexercise plasma CPK levels, indicative of muscle damage, were 83% lower after the CHO+P trial (216.3 +/- 122.0 U x L) than the CHO trial (1318.1 +/- 1935.6 U x L). There were no significant differences in exercising levels of (.-)VO(2), ventilation, heart rate, RPE, blood glucose, or blood lactate between treatments in either trial.

    CONCLUSION: A carbohydrate beverage with additional protein calories produced significant improvements in time to fatigue and reductions in muscle damage in endurance athletes. Further research is necessary to determine whether these effects were the result of higher total caloric content of the CHO+P beverage or due to specific protein-mediated mechanisms.

    PMID: 15235331 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
     
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  13. chess9

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  14. chess9

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    Endurance athletes have the following problems (sometimes tennis players fit these categories, depending on a host of variables but mostly duration of the event)

    1. Bonking; (see 5, below)
    2. Cramping;
    3. Hyponatremia;
    4. Dehydration;
    5. Low blood sugar;
    6. High blood sugar;
    7. Gastric distress, including stomach and bowel issues too delicate to fully describe in a family publication. ;)

    And probably a lot more...

    -Robert
     
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  15. strike

    strike Rookie

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    Here is what I use...plenty of energy, but also protein for the muscles.

    Before hitting the court:

    1 Clif bar 1.5 hours before

    During:
    Water
    Accelerade
    If I hit the wall, and really need more energy, I take one of the following (with water):
    Hammer Gel or Gu Gel

    Afterwards:
    1 serving Accelerade

    There are many other kinds of gels, bars, etc., all available at cycling stores or some sports stores.

    EDIT: as noted by others, stay away from "energy drinks" like Gatorade, Powerade, Red Bull, etc., anything with loads of caffeine, guarana, sugar, high fructose syrup, etc., look for natural ingredients and long chain carbs...your body will thank you, and you'll perform better
     
    Last edited: May 30, 2008
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  16. herosol

    herosol Professional

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    but i heard gels are really damaging long-term wise especially towards the stomach?
     
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  17. strike

    strike Rookie

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    I have not had any problems with them...

    Damaging how so?
     
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  18. LuckyR

    LuckyR Legend

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    That's what I suspected.

    #s 2 & 3 are essentially the same issue and will prevented in ~95 - 99% of tennis matches by salt loading the night before, no special intramatch product necessary. In the 1 - 5% of the cases where it does happen, the only drink I know that will help is Pickle juice, although cheap salt tabs will do the trick.

    #s 1 & 5 will be prevented in a similar percentage of matches by carbo loading the night before, again no special product necessary

    #4 is the bad guy for most folks, but regular Sports drinks are the solution, no need for Energy drinks.

    #6 is not really an athletic problem, it is a side effect of misusing products with too high a sugar content.

    #7 is usually a side effect of having something other than a clear liquid in one's GI tract when little blood flow is going to the GI tract (like during severe exercise, duh).

    Again, what is the problem Energy drinks are supposed to solve?
     
    Last edited: May 30, 2008
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  19. BeHappy

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    How old are you robert?
     
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  20. 10sfreak

    10sfreak Semi-Pro

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    Aha! Finally, someone else who agrees with me on this issue! Salt tablets is how I have overcome severe cramping during matches. I also take salt tablets right before I lift weights. Generally not a problem if you don't have high blood pressure...
     
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  21. chess9

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    65.

    -Robert
     
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  22. chess9

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    Most guys are nutritionally clueless, and before a match or a race, most of us want simple solutions to be handy. Idiot proof solutions. :) Most triathletes who do long races plan out their nutrition pretty carefully because it's easy in the midst of the effort to do something stupid. It's not so likely to happen in most tennis matches, though I know plenty of guys who decided to eat something like a double cheeseburger an hour before a match. :) In fact, one of my buddies had a protein shake an hour before he played me. :) He had no energy on court.

    -Robert
     
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  23. SystemicAnomaly

    SystemicAnomaly G.O.A.T.

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    Why do people drink coffee and tea?

    One of the "problems" that individuals might be attempting to solve is fatigue -- both mental & physical. One might be looking to improve mental focus & disposition in order to elicit a peak performance. Do energy drinks deliver on this? For me, most do not offer a satisfactory solution. As I mentioned previously, there a few that do an outstanding job -- much better than coffee, tea or chocolate.
     
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  24. LuckyR

    LuckyR Legend

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    I completely agree that a mild stimulant like caffiene is going to help. Help you stay awake during a boring lecture. However, in the context of tennis matchplay, if you aren't having high levels of adrenaline running through your system naturally, you probably have a diagnosis. No use for a drink to solve that...
     
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  25. richw76

    richw76 Rookie

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    I thought it was widely known that moderate levels of caffeine(100-200 mg) the equal to a small cup of coffee. Increases endurance in trained athletes.

    This is a 50 year old fact.

    In an average tennis match most people probably aren't pushing their bodies hard enough for it to make a difference, but I don't see how a moderate intake could hurt you.

    Personally in tennis I think it's mostly mental not physical at most peoples levels on this board.

    When I get tired I lose concentration. Recently I started working on my focus. When I'm tired I'll only concentrate on looking at the ball.

    My breathing, footwork, etc takes care of itself, and my consistency seems to improve the more tired I get.
     
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  26. The Watchman

    The Watchman Rookie

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    I like this article on pre-game supplementation: http://www.rosstraining.com/articles/prefightsupplement.html.

    It is written from a boxing trainer's point of view - however, given that boxing and tennis have reasonably similar energy system usage, I thought it's still useful.

    I used to have fatigue problems in competition (esp during 3 set matches in the hot Aussie summer), but after using the supplementation in the article, those problems went away. I think it will work for most others as well.
     
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  27. SystemicAnomaly

    SystemicAnomaly G.O.A.T.

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    I was thinking more along the lines of pre-game fatigue rather than mid-match fatigue. Individuals who are not morning people often need a caffeine or energy "fix" in the morning to kick-start the brain & body. Others experience a mid-afternoon or evening slump. It's really depends on the individuals daily rhythms. Quite often we are required to play when the brain/body is not up to par.

    Some of us have an issue (diagnosis?) called "age". When I was in my 30's and 40's, the energy levels were much less of an issue. Now in my late 50's, it takes quite a bit to get my engine into gear, particularly since I am primarily playing doubles.

    It usually takes much longer to get the adrenaline going when playing doubs, particularly if you are not getting anough sustained rallies early on. If I start sluggish, it could take a set and a half or longer to really get the juices flowing. An energy fix beforehand can do wonders for hastening the onset of adrenaline & endorphins, unless I am seriously sleep-deprived (another issue with some of us older folk).

    As you age, you also find that many of your old injuries come back to haunt you. Pain can be a daily fact of life. Often, it might be only a dull ache or soreness. It can take quite a while to get past these obstacles to play fluid tennis. An energy fix can often get you to the "runner's high" much quicker and more intensely so that those general aches & pains are less of a hinderance to higher level play.
     
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  28. LuckyR

    LuckyR Legend

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    In this context, I can see your point.
     
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  29. chess9

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  30. LuckyR

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