Another Serve Secret

Discussion in 'Tennis Tips/Instruction' started by sureshs, Aug 17, 2014.

  1. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

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    Hey modern fans, here is Another Serve Secret (A S S):

    Baseline is only a line.

    When I fault, I usually hit long, not into the net. Perhaps it is due to my 28 inch frame with 100 sq in head, perhaps due to lack of enough spin, whatever.

    Today, I started serving from 3 feet behind the baseline, same place I normally start my groundies from. Serves were all going in!

    In the modern game, you are not limited by wood rackets which required moving forward into the court on the serve to generate space, and control was provided by the low RA of wood. Instead, you have huge heads and more than enough power, and actually are better off not moving into the court because of the deep returns. So why serve from the baseline? Give yourself more room and swing more freely. And of course you will not FF.

    Keep this A S S to yourself.
     
    #1
  2. Topspin Shot

    Topspin Shot Legend

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    This is A S S a 9.
     
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  3. Avles

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    love the acronym--I guess the Real Slam has put you in the mood for some old-school suresh trolling...
     
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  4. RajS

    RajS Semi-Pro

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    @Suresh: Not a bad strategy for kick second serves with more net clearance, although I would say that three feet is too much space/time to give up. Sometimes I will stand back a little more for second serves, maybe six inches to a foot. On first serves, you will need to be as close as possible to drill the ball in, in my view.
     
    #4
  5. Chotobaka

    Chotobaka Hall of Fame

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    Perfect response.
     
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  6. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

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    Good to know that others are also doing it.
     
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  7. ProgressoR

    ProgressoR Hall of Fame

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    I will try it
     
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  8. taurussable

    taurussable Professional

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    this probably won't work well against drop returns.
     
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  9. onehandbh

    onehandbh Hall of Fame

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    Actually, standing inside the baseline would give you a better angle. It's sort of like growing taller and increasing the serve speed at the same time.

    If the sun is in your opponent's eyes, maybe you can try serving from about 2 feet inside the baseline and he won't notice.
     
    #9
  10. taurussable

    taurussable Professional

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    LOL many players stand on the baseline when serving in my 3.5-4.5 ladder. you can't do much to stop it.
     
    #10
  11. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

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    That is the first thing I thought of. It is counter-intuitive, isn't it?

    I was also watching an Open tournament this weekend. I noticed many many serves going long even in the finals, or an awkward adjustment of the wrist at the last instant to prevent it.

    I think longer distance gives more time for the ball to drop.

    I have long said that the triangles analogy is wrong for serve paths. In reality, first serves leave the racket a degree or so below horizontal and drop down in a parabolic path. They don't go straight into the ground. Standing back just increases the flight path till drop.
     
    #11
  12. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

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    LOL one guy in the 4.5 mixed doubles Open today was FFing on every single serve
     
    #12
  13. Attila_the_gorilla

    Attila_the_gorilla Hall of Fame

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    I think it can work. By the time the ball gets to the receiver, he may fall asleep or something.
     
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  14. onehandbh

    onehandbh Hall of Fame

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    I've seen a few rec players use the "standing-further-back-behind-the-baseline" to help "cure" them of serving long.

    It basically is equivalent to slowing down your serve and being shorter.
    Have you tried serving while on your knees instead?
    It would help your parabola-style serve.
     
    #14
  15. dominikk1985

    dominikk1985 Legend

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    Suresh easily has the best sense of Humor in this Forum:).

    but I think that A S S is not a good tip. you are actually robbing yourself angle if you do that. try to angle the racket face more Forward at Point of Impact so that it goes down steeper.
     
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  16. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

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    I will try that.

    Mind you, this is part of my quest for perfection. I do OK with conventional serves from the baseline. But I refuse to accept the kind of cr*p I saw yesterday in the various 4.5 finals in the Open tournament: every other serve a fault and servers resorting to dinking or weird adjustments of their body (yes at the 4.5 level), and that is not even mentioning in FFs.
     
    #16
  17. rommil

    rommil Legend

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    Suresh secret actually is putting a lot of his A S S weight behind the serve
     
    #17
  18. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

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    Another A S S:

    Instead of standing back, prevent serves from going long by using Eastern backhand grip instead of conti. More control, less power.
     
    #18
  19. Pet

    Pet Semi-Pro

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    Say it to Wegner...
     
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  20. psv255

    psv255 Professional

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    Redundant

    10
     
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  21. Shroud

    Shroud Legend

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    LOL. Hey didnt someone post before that Suresh has a habit of posting with "Secret" in the title?

    Never one to disappoint that suresh.
     
    #21
  22. WildVolley

    WildVolley Legend

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    So we have the serve secrets:
    - put some ooomph into it
    - concentrate on your hitting shoulder, and
    - stand 3 feet behind the baseline when serving.

    Once I put these into practice, my serve is going to rock!
     
    #22
  23. jaggy

    jaggy G.O.A.T.

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    You can change your name to Dr Ivo
     
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  24. Topspin Shot

    Topspin Shot Legend

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    You forgot about supinating.
     
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  25. WildVolley

    WildVolley Legend

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    Oh no! This may foil my plan!

    What is the supinating secret?
     
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  26. Topspin Shot

    Topspin Shot Legend

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    #26
  27. Captain Ron

    Captain Ron Professional

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  28. WildVolley

    WildVolley Legend

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    #28
  29. Nostradamus

    Nostradamus G.O.A.T.

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    Is there a good exercise you can do with Strength Band exercise to help your serve too ?
     
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  30. WildVolley

    WildVolley Legend

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    Actually, doing external rotation exercises and trap muscle exercises with the band can help stabilize your shoulder which will allow you to swing harder without injury. Just do movements like in the "thrower's 10" but instead of using free weights, anchor the band by wrapping it around a post.
     
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  31. Chotobaka

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  32. tennis_balla

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  33. Mr.Lob

    Mr.Lob Hall of Fame

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    That's a lot of beatings you're taking if you're the 3.5.
     
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  34. Pet

    Pet Semi-Pro

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    Have you arrived to that conclusion alone?
     
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  35. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

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    Last night I achieved the pinnacle of serving so this will be the last A S S. Finally it has all come together. Here are the secrets:

    1. Grip not continental but slightly towards eastern backhand. Other than slowing the ball down slightly to keep it in the court, it adds spin naturally and prevents ball from flying away from intended path. The "finger" is also a useful addition at this point.

    2. Minor grip adjustments even right before the racket hand starts going up. I noticed Karlovic doing this during practice at IW - quite major loosening, tightening and realignment of his palm as the racket was going back. I realize now that it helps to keep the grip loose and provides some kind of "feel" or "something to do" which prevents a robotic tight grip. It gives you a sense of being in control.

    3. As John Yandell has pointed out, ATP serves are now almost always tossed up over the head or at least not forward as was advised in the old days of low-powered wooden frames. Tossing height is also important - more height more clearance and pace till the point it is not affected by sun, wind etc. Trick is to make such things happen automatically. The trick is to adopt a wide platform stance facing somewhat diagonally as usual. Then your weight will be between the legs and the toss will also be forced to be high up in the middle.
     
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  36. beernutz

    beernutz Hall of Fame

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  37. donquijote

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    I learned in life that a workaround may look like a solution to a problem but it will make the problem bigger and harder to tackle for the future.

    No pros serve far from the line for a reason. If you're serving from 1-2 feet behind the baseline, that means your serve will be slower when it is landing and second that your opponent will have more time to prepare for a good return. Though, A S S strategy :) might work for whose who repeadetly double-fault by hitting long.
     
    #37
  38. arche3

    arche3 Banned

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    #38
  39. tennis_balla

    tennis_balla Hall of Fame

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    This is an absolute joke. I don't know if I should laugh or cry.
    I keep saying it, you get what you pay for. On TTW people take advice from complete strangers with zero background information about them. Usually pretending to be something they are not and then video evidence comes out and everyone acts all surprised and shocked.
    This is why lessons from proper tennis professionals cannot be beat. If someone wants to go the online route, services like protenniscoach.com are worth the price. At least you know who you're getting your information from.
     
    #39
  40. arche3

    arche3 Banned

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    I like how sureshs shuffles back and forth instead of a split step. That's called the A S S step.
     
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  41. Chotobaka

    Chotobaka Hall of Fame

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    This is exactly why TTW has such a high entertainment factor. It's like watching a train wreck that never ends.
     
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  42. Captain Ron

    Captain Ron Professional

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    Sure, a split step is the way to go if you are playing the ball on the first bounce :)
    The shuffle may work well when you are playing the ball on the second (or third) bounce ;)
    I'm pretty sure you can get an automatic 0.5 NTRP appeal down if you watch the entire video. I had to stop after about 2 min of watching out of strictly morbid curiosity.
     
    #42
  43. Chotobaka

    Chotobaka Hall of Fame

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    Those 3 and 4 bounce balls can replace Ambien -- talk about a relaxed pace. I actually found myself dozing off a few minutes in.
     
    #43
  44. Captain Ron

    Captain Ron Professional

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    The problem is they are non-addicting. There simply isn't a business model without repeat customers, just ask a drug company.
     
    #44
  45. Coolio

    Coolio Semi-Pro

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    Sureshs is an example of the modern internet player.
    Well placed body serve to elicit a weak reply.
    Buggy Whip topspin approach.
    Natural feel on the half volley which is down to innate Indian intuition.
    This all around game can only be developed after 30,000 posts on TTW.

    [​IMG]
     
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  46. Avles

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    Heheh, that was actually a pretty nice point by suresh IMO!

    That's the life of the rec player, some points you look okay, some points you look like a buffoon... my goal to is slowly lower the number of ridiculous points.
     
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  47. arche3

    arche3 Banned

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    Pretty much a buffoon in that point as well. Lol.
     
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  48. samarai

    samarai Rookie

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    The play was horrific for someone I thought had decent game after following his posts, but what is up with the pink shoes. No one should be allowed on the court with that outfit.
     
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  49. TennisCJC

    TennisCJC Legend

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    No.

    Pro serves are still tossed into the court. You may see some 2nd serves pulled back over the front shoulder but you will rarely if ever see serves tossed over the head. Now, contact may occur near the "over the head" location but this is because the player is rotating and pushing up and into the stroke as he/she goes into contact. But, for 1st serves that are basically flat, top slice or slice; the ball is tossed into the court and a few inches to the R of the front foot for a right handed server. Serena Williams and Marin Cilic both just won USOpen and their 1st serves are tossed in front and slightly to R. Commentators even remarked how Cilic improved his serve by reducing deep knee bend and tossing more into court.
     
    #49
  50. WildVolley

    WildVolley Legend

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    I had the completely opposite reaction.

    From reading his posts, I assumed sureshs didn't actually play tennis. His play was much better than I expected, given the lunacy evident in most of his technique posts. Just read the crazy advice in this very thread. Does it sound like advice from someone who actually plays tennis?
     
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