Any rules you would change?

Discussion in 'College Tennis Talk' started by jaggy, May 9, 2012.

  1. floridatennisdude

    floridatennisdude Hall of Fame

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    What about an NBA point guard like Derrick Rose being sent in a play from the coach for him to run?

    What about Tom Brady being given a play to run from his offensive coordinator via a ear piece in his helmet?

    What about Rory McIlroy getting advice from his caddy before every shot and help with reading the greens on his putts?

    Do they have no business being out there? These are pro examples, college sports have much more coaching.
     
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  2. andfor

    andfor Hall of Fame

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    Since the WTA allows coaching I guess that means that only college women can have coaching. Davis Cup and Fed Cup are irrelevant in the discussion.
     
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  3. TennisFan2Day

    TennisFan2Day Rookie

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    All of these examples are from sports where the rules allow coaching all throughout juniors and college. I wouldn't have a problem with tennis if they allowed coaching in the juniors and the pros.

    Have you ever thought that maybe part of the problem why players in the US are not making it high in the pro rankings is because they are being instructed what to do every second in college and then when they get to the pro level they have to think on thier own and they don't know how to do it?
     
    Last edited: May 11, 2012
    #53
  4. andfor

    andfor Hall of Fame

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    Coaching in tennis takes place on the WTA tour, Davis and Fed Cup's. I understand your reference to no coaching in the juniors. Illegal coaching takes place all the time in the juniors and pros. This does not making in right. Coaching in college has little (many would say nothing) to do with a player not making it on the pro tour.

    BTW. Coaching is college is considered fair because every team has a coach. In the juniors and pros, not everyone has a coach at every match.
     
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  5. TennisFan2Day

    TennisFan2Day Rookie

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    I understand that coaching takes place on the WTA tour, Davis and Fed Cup's. Don't get me started on the coaching in juniors. :)
    The thread is about what college rules would you like to see changed. I agree, that is fair in college because every team has a coach and is doing it.
     
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  6. SoCal10s

    SoCal10s Hall of Fame

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    I like the coaching in tennis,especially on the college level and I hope they would do it more on the professional level... it gives a new twist to an old game..
    every sports these days are at a new extreme ,40 year old guys in golf are working out hard everyday trying to stay on the tour,Djoko sleeps in a high tech chamber.. most athletes are eating a special diet .. so why not take it to the next level.. even in junior tennis.. just let all out in the open.. parents are cheating coaching their kids anyways,so just let all be legit.. it might be fun to watch crazy parents coach their kids into losing ..
     
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  7. woodrow1029

    woodrow1029 Hall of Fame

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    My question is why do you think that coaching shouldn't be allowed in college tennis (a team tennis event) when coaching is allowed in professional tennis (team events) such as Davis Cup, Fed Cup, World Team Tennis.
     
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  8. floridatennisdude

    floridatennisdude Hall of Fame

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    I've never thought that, no. Not once.

    Most of our pros anymore spend sparse time, if any, in college. it seems silly to think that potentially 4 years of a coaching is the difference of Isner being #1 in the world instead of #10 or something along those lines. If anything, I would think that the overall softness of parents in the US contributes to lower success at pro tennis than coaches. Coaches tend to demand, whereas parents tend to coddle.
     
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  9. TennisFan2Day

    TennisFan2Day Rookie

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    I'm sorry but I will NEVER think that it is OK to coach between points in a match, regardless of the level. I agree that it would be fine on change overs. If you are trying to convince me, it isn't going to happen.

    I totally agree with you about most parents being too soft on their kids. I think you can tell I am not one of those.
     
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  10. gully

    gully Semi-Pro

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    ^^
    Don't forget that coaching is allowed, with limits, on changeovers during high school play. It's also allowed in junior team events (intersectionals, zonals, etc.). D1 players may or may not have played HS, but there are precedents for allowing limited coaching in team events.
     
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  11. woodrow1029

    woodrow1029 Hall of Fame

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    I'm not trying to convince you, I'm just trying to understand your reasoning. Your logic of "if it doesn't happen in the pros it shouldn't happen at college tennis" doesn't fly for me since it does happen in team events even at the pro level, and between points too.
     
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  12. floridatennisdude

    floridatennisdude Hall of Fame

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    And along the lines of "if it doesn't happen in the pros, it shouldn't happen in college", I think tennis is pretty darn close. Tennis as a whole, has international rules that are produced by the ITF. Those get adjusted by organizations like the USTA, ITA and the NCAA, but for the most part if it is happening on tour it is a rule in any place in the world you play the game.

    Compare that to football or basketball. Kickoffs from different yard lines, different distances for 3 pointers, down by contact, shot clock duration, tuck rules, instant replay, etc. Other than the score keeping and size of the field, it is barely the same game.

    I mean, what are we supposed to do...require all schools implement a hawk eye system?
     
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  13. treeman10

    treeman10 Semi-Pro

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    .....................
     
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2012
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  14. jaggy

    jaggy G.O.A.T.

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    Well Louisville on Friday challenged any close call and a few far from close. The ball would be clearly out, the Louisville player would scream at the umpire and whatever coach was closest would join in.
    Intimidation factor? I think so.

    My next wish would be for a limited number of challenges, this was beyond fun to watch.
     
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  15. floridatennisdude

    floridatennisdude Hall of Fame

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    So...after you question the allotted 2 or 3 challenges, your opponent can just start playing "lines are out"? kids would start hooking like crazy
     
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  16. jaggy

    jaggy G.O.A.T.

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    But thats why there is an umpire. Questioning calls that are not close and will never be overturned just seem to be part of some attempt to disrupt the opponents, put pressure on officials and in my opinion should not be allowed within the rules.
     
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  17. woodrow1029

    woodrow1029 Hall of Fame

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    Excessive line call appeals are addressed in the rules; however, it's rarely enforced, because first of all it's very subjective, and rightfully so. The player is on the other side of the net, sometimes at a very bad angle from where the ball lands, and they truly don't know. A ball that is six inches out might look and feel good to a player 80 feet down the court and on the opposite sideline. And the coach is going to try to get involved to back up their players. When the umpire is doing his job correctly, he won't let that get to him, and will only step in and overrule a clear mistake.

    20.
    Excessive appeals for the apparent sake of disrupting play. A Solo Chair
    Umpire shall caution any player making excessive appeals for the
    apparent sake of disrupting play. Thereafter, if the Solo Chair Umpire
    determines that the player is making appeals for the apparent sake of
    disrupting play, he may penalize the player under the ITA Point

    Penalty System.
     
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  18. JLyon

    JLyon Hall of Fame

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    If it truly got that bad then the Referee would have stepped in and the umpire more than likely would have already got onto the player due to what he/she might perceive as excessive challenges.
     
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  19. Will Wilson

    Will Wilson Rookie

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    Agreed, Jaggy. Another variation is some players (thankfully a minority) frequently call anything close, "out" and rely on the opponent to appeal to the umpire to get it right. If the umpire doesn't overrule, they figure they deserve the point. In this regard, the "one umpire" system is really flawed because one person, even in the chair, can't see all the balls well enough to overrule anything but a clear error, leaving anything close to the whim of the player.

    It makes for constant negative byplay on court which gets annoying to watch.
     
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  20. Tar Heel Tennis

    Tar Heel Tennis Semi-Pro

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    Thanks for posting this! I'll be volunteering at the D3 Finals next week, and this article is very informative irt the participants...thanks again!
     
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  21. jaggy

    jaggy G.O.A.T.

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    That was my main point, it got really annoying to watch. I dont see much changing, to add extra officials would cost money at a time when schools are looking to cut back on sports like tennis so I fear an escalation.
     
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  22. jaggy

    jaggy G.O.A.T.

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    20.

    Excessive appeals for the apparent sake of disrupting play. A Solo Chair
    Umpire shall caution any player making excessive appeals for the
    apparent sake of disrupting play. Thereafter, if the Solo Chair Umpire
    determines that the player is making appeals for the apparent sake of
    disrupting play, he may penalize the player under the ITA Point


    Thanks for sharing.
     
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  23. JLyon

    JLyon Hall of Fame

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    the worst calls tend to occur on the far sideline, it is a gamble for an official to overrule or not overrule. I know I did one overrule and got chewed out for overruling but had a good look on the ball, while I did not overrule another call in a different match and still got chewed on, more by the fans but an official is truly in a damned if you do and damned if you don't position on many calls. The players, coaches and fans always think they have a better view. Officials are not perfect
     
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  24. Will Wilson

    Will Wilson Rookie

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    And, of course, the players are savvy enough to know that the far sideline is really tough for the umpire to call, so they can get away with anything but the most blatant hook.

    In this regard, D1 tennis does not resemble the sportsmanship of most amateur tournaments where players call their own lines without an umpire and, for the most part, do a fine job of it.
     
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  25. floridatennisdude

    floridatennisdude Hall of Fame

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    Haha, I was sitting with a UF athletics employee at our women's match. Allie Will challenged 2 straight calls and was correct against WSU. The UF employee said that he prefers volleyball because there is a line judge staring down every line to call it with a flag and it takes the player out of the line calls.

    I commented that with 6 matches going on in tennis, it would require an additional 30 line judges to call every line where volleyball only has 2. He thought about it and then said, "yea, we are never going to pay 30 officials."
     
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  26. JLyon

    JLyon Hall of Fame

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    Actually you could get away with 6-12 more officials, by having them calling the far sideline only, the chair can usually see the rest of the lines pretty good.
     
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  27. floridatennisdude

    floridatennisdude Hall of Fame

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    You'd still have spots that don't get a good angle to look at. In volleyball, they stand right on the corner with a perfect line of sight down a baseline and sideline. Due to the net in tennis and the service line, you need 5 per court to have someone at the fence calling a line.

    Even then, you'd have interference issues with finding places for the line judges to sit.
     
    Last edited: May 14, 2012
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  28. woodrow1029

    woodrow1029 Hall of Fame

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    First of all, the major issue of course is the cost.

    Secondly, as JLyon pointed out, the chair umpire has a pretty good look at all lines except far sideline and center service line. You would definitely not need a chair + 5 line umpires at a college match where the players are calling their own lines and the umpire is overruling a clear mistake only upon verbal appeal from the players. There are professional events and high level ITF juniors events where the chair umpire is calling every line on the court without line umpires at all.

    One conference, I think it's the Big 12, has a chair umpire for every court, and during the doubles, the three that are off go and stand on the far sideline. I am not 100% sure of their protocol, but I believe the player still has to appeal to the chair umpire, who then has to decide whether it was close enough to yield to the official on the far sideline.

    As a chair umpire myself, I know that there are certain umpires that have no training as a line umpire, and no business standing on a line. It has the potential to cause even more trouble. I would rather have a couple of very close balls that the players might make an occasional error, than having a few close calls where the players are right, and the person standing on that line makes an error by overruling it.

    I don't like the system of line umpires in college tennis at all.
     
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  29. floridatennisdude

    floridatennisdude Hall of Fame

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    Woodrow, I know. My UF employee Example was that the calls shouldn't be made by players. He wasn't a fan of the honor system. His reference to volleyball was that they do have line judges that make the calls, not the players. I pointed out to him that it would be a cost and logistical mess to have every line called in tennis.

    My point is, even with an up umpire and down official, there would still be calls on the baseline and service line that neither are standing on and don't have a direct line of sight to see if a piece of fuzz actually touched white paint. In volleyball, the line judges can call 2 lines each and don't have a service line to call. They are standing right on the corner of baseline and sideline.

    I too like the current system of players calling and officials only over ruling. It is economically and logistically unfeasible to add officials to a sport that rarely charges admission.
     
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