Anyone Watched the Bush and Kerry Presidential Debate?

Discussion in 'Odds & Ends' started by gmlasam, Sep 30, 2004.

  1. gmlasam

    gmlasam Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2004
    Messages:
    1,527
    Kerry sure made Bush look like a fool. When Kerry was speaking, Bush had an angry, and confused look to him. Kerry attacked Bush's policies at every angle, and had much stronger arguments.

    I'm pretty sure Kerry won this debate.
     
    #1
  2. Sacco

    Sacco New User

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2004
    Messages:
    10
    Yes. The whole debate was painful.


    Kerry: It's does matter what we say, only what we do. 8)

    Bush: We say what we mean, and do what we say. :?

    Kerry: If I'm raw... :lol:

    Bush: then I'm cooked. :x

    Both together: All things being equal and opposite, disregard our words tonight and forever.
    :wink: :wink:

    Too bad Nader will never be allowed in the debates.
     
    #2
  3. mlee2

    mlee2 Rookie

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2004
    Messages:
    249
    Ya, Kerry had names and sources to throw around to back up his arguments while Bush gave out the same statement verbatim (over and over again): "What kind of message does it send to (troops, other nations, etc.) if you change your policies?"

    I second the shame that Nader would never be allowed. :-(
     
    #3
  4. tykrum

    tykrum Rookie

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2004
    Messages:
    378
    Location:
    Minnesota
    Yeah it would be great to have Nader there to give more people a reason to basically throw their vote away. I am definitely all for voting for who you think is best candidate, but the polls show the man has no chance of winning a presidential election. I am extremely tired of people that say that Bush and Kerry sound the same, those people should actually listen to what they are saying and what their policies are. Those Nader voters might realize that its Kerry and Nader that have the most in common.

    That said, I think the debate was a clear Kerry beatdown of Bush. But of course, there are people out there that have the point that Kerry lies or "flip-flops" driven through their head (which Bush does a DARN good job of doing). Bush kept repeating himself, had nothing of real importance to say except for his 5-pronged (or whatever he said) technique of negotiation with N. Korea, and Kerry had careful, articulate, insightful, factual, and informational points and counterpoints. But anyway, I am getting too riled up.
     
    #4
  5. Max G.

    Max G. Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2004
    Messages:
    4,382
    #5
  6. silent bob

    silent bob New User

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2004
    Messages:
    93
    No objective observer can have any doubt as to who won that debate.

    Unfortunately for Kerry, winning a debate is a lot easier than winning an election.

    Unless Bush strips off all his clothes and dances around the stage with one thumb in his mouth and the other in his ***, more than 40% of Americans are still going to vote for whoever is the most conservative candidate, and that ain't Kerry. And a lot of the "undecideds" will vote for whomever their friends are voting. That doesn't leave much room for Kerry to squeeze out a majority in the electoral college - especially with Nader attacking on the opposite front.
     
    #6
  7. Rickson

    Rickson G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2004
    Messages:
    12,740
    Location:
    USA
    Kerry's gonna win for sure. Bush's stupidity showed during the debate and the American people will not stand for another 4 years of a stupid tyrant for president.
     
    #7
  8. Benjamin

    Benjamin Rookie

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2004
    Messages:
    285
    Kerry won the debate by a great margin but Bush will win the election by a greater margain!!!

    I'm not sure why so many people are behind Bush but I call it like I see it.

    Even in my county where unemployment has gone from around 4% up to 11% in the last four years, people will vote overwhelmingly for Bush.

    Does anyone here believe Bush has EVER taken a public speaking class?

    Benjamin
     
    #8
  9. splink779

    splink779 Guest

    My favorite part of the debate (besides when bush tried to make himself cry to look sympathetic) was when bush said something like 'we dont need a president that is going to send messed mixages, uh, mixed messages' that was priceless.
     
    #9
  10. Sacco

    Sacco New User

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2004
    Messages:
    10
    tykrum—

    I don’t know where you are getting your misinformation, but let’s hit some of the issues between Kerry-Bush-Nader.


    For NAFTA and CAFTA: Kerry-Yes, Bush-Yes, Nader-No

    For Universal Health Care
    Single Payer System: Kerry-No, Bush-No, Nader-Yes

    U. N in, U.S. out of Iraq: Kerry-No, Bush-No, Nader-Yes

    International Criminal
    Court: Kerry-Maybe, Bush-No, Nader-Yes

    Living Wage, Not
    Minimum Wage: Kerry-No, Bush-No, Nader-Yes


    Of course there are some issues Nader-Kerry might agree on now: Nuclear Proliferations Treaties and Test Bans, possibly Abolishing the Patriot Act, though I would venture that Kerry would most likely trim the Patriot Act down toward the minimal rights to basic privacy again, while Nader would just plain abolish the Unconstitutional F**ker.
     
    #10
  11. Sacco

    Sacco New User

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2004
    Messages:
    10
    Here’s something I overheard at my local KEY BANK. I was waiting in line for teller, and in the next room I overheard a guy expressing his concern about his stocks and investments to a Key adviser. The guy said he was worried about investing until he knows the outcome of the election. The Key adviser assured him, from his sources, that Bush had already won the election, so no need to wait. They both went on to commiserate about how bad Bush was for America’s world image, how they in many ways wish he wouldn’t win but it was best for their personal profits.

    Of course, this is just overheard. Take from it what you will. With DieBOLD electronic voting machines in key states like Ohio pledged to the Republicans by the President of DieBOLD, it doesn’t seem such a far stretch for me to believe these types of overheard conversations. But who knows?
     
    #11
  12. thehustler

    thehustler Rookie

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2004
    Messages:
    308
    While universal health care seems like a great idea I don't think we could afford it. Here in Oregon we recently had a chance to vote for universal health care for the state. The only problem was that the amount it would cost would be more than the state budget. We turned it down. If the government can do it right and keep costs down, but still provide everyone with coverage without screwing us over by raising taxes then I'm all for it. But since that last statement would be lost on the government I doubt it would turn out like that.
     
    #12
  13. Sacco

    Sacco New User

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2004
    Messages:
    10
    I agree with you, thehustler. It couldn't work on just the state level (it would have to be national), and I don't trust our government (or any government) to handle it either. Throw them all out, and start over, says me.

    Although I think some of Nader's basic argument is we curve military spending, etc. and pay it from there. But don't quote me on that, some are more versed in his policy-- I'm just a working man, so sometimes I get it wrong.

    Also look at your phone taxes-- over 70% of that money goes to the military/ military spending in the end. Some of that to make more nukes and now mini-nukes, as if America couldn't already blow up the entire world 200times over already. But of course a well trained militia has its uses to.
     
    #13
  14. Cruzer

    Cruzer Professional

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2004
    Messages:
    1,273
    Location:
    Leafs Nation
    The Bush/Kerry debate didn't tell anyone anything they haven't heard before from the candidates. I think 97% of the voters have decided who they are voting for and one debate is not going to change anyone's view. Nader is simply too extreme and will always be a fringe candidate. The apparent large block of undecided voters are people who simply don't want to tell anyone who they are voting for because it is none of their business.

    I get tired of those hammering Bush about Iraq, Afganistan, North Korea and foreign policy in general. For eight years Clinton did NOTHING in regard to the above and unfortunately for Bush he has had to deal with a lot of messy situations that already existed when in took office in 2000.
     
    #14
  15. Sacco

    Sacco New User

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2004
    Messages:
    10
    Cruzer,

    I hear what your saying, and on the candidates you may be right. Still I think Nader should be debating with Kerry/Bush. Then we would hear something new at least.

    But now if your talking about Iraq you would have to go beyond Clinton to a least father Bush, who failed to handle the problems you're talking about. As for Afghanistan, it also has a long and sorted history of occupation by other countries: Russia, etc. Some of the destruction suppoted by the U.S., and much of it not.
     
    #15
  16. PusherMan

    PusherMan Rookie

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2004
    Messages:
    191
    Ohhh debate, rebate...whatever. Bush is gonna get reelected. I'll be back in November to remind y'all how right I was :D
     
    #16
  17. Jonas

    Jonas Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2004
    Messages:
    593
    Bush will win comfortably in 1 month. The American people simply do not know where John Kerry stands even after the first debate. This decision is way to important to have someone in office that will ALWAYS conform to popular opinion on every issue. Even after a good showing last night, Kerry has too big of a mountain to climb. There is no way John Kerry can win this election unless there is a huge mistake made by Bush/ or his campaign.
     
    #17
  18. Sacco

    Sacco New User

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2004
    Messages:
    10
    A huge mistake would be if Bush said he finally found those elusive weapons of mass destruction... in his own back yard. :p

    Or better yet-- if Bush said Kerry, himself, is a weapon of mass destruction! Attack him!! :lol:
     
    #18
  19. Brettolius

    Brettolius Professional

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2004
    Messages:
    815
    Location:
    Beyond Thunderdome
    sordid :D
     
    #19
  20. thejerk

    thejerk Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2004
    Messages:
    472
    For people who hate the government so much, it's funny that you like Nader, who would give the government complete control over business. Why would you guys want the government to have so much control? I can't help but think that all of you must live with your parents or atleast have no faith in yourselves. Kerry would give away the farm so that the who world could live in harmoney with a weakened America. American schools really suck. Don't any of you people understand socialism/communism? Somebody wrote that Kerry brought facts, well if that person studied independent sources he would realize that Kerry's facts were mostly incorrect. Kennedy had already done everything about Castro that he was going to do before he went to De Galle and Kerry was even wrong about who Kennedy sent to France. Do you guys really want a global test? Look who sits on U.N. security council, did you vote for Seria? Look what socialism has done to Europe, not one of them countries can exist idependently and I'll guarantee the E.U. will collapse in 20 to 25 years. The only way it would be able to compete with us is if you guys or the like minded allow sociallism to bring us down to Europe's impotents. Look what sociallism does to societies, mainly making them effeminate, European women don't even respect their men enough to carry their children.
     
    #20
  21. chad shaver

    chad shaver Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2004
    Messages:
    416
    "American schools really suck."

    Really? What sources and information do you have to support this? What are your qualifications to judge? Are you a teacher?

    What is your profession? I need to know, so that I can say you suck at it.
     
    #21
  22. thejerk

    thejerk Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2004
    Messages:
    472
    My sources? Havn't you been reading this thread? My profession, live television. I'm the best I or anyone I've ever worked for has seen. I went to college after being kicked out of 8Th grade. Couldn't quite conform. While in college I volunteered in an adult learning center teaching people to take g.e.d classes. Half the people I tutored had high school diplomas but came in to learn how to read. Apparently reading isn't right up there in the list of things they teach now days. In college I studied journalism and became a flaming right wing libertarian after being once again incapable of conforming. Everybody studyng journalism was a left wing kook job and that is primarily why I started looking at the other side.
    By the way, I didn't say that teachers suck. You must feel guilty of something, are you part of the problem? As I noted above, I guess reading isn't important. Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't public schools actually spend more money on the bad kids than the good? My friend tutors part time and you should see some of the papers he showed me. Apparently, self esteem is more important than reading, because the papers he showed me were horrible, but the regular teachers would mark them with outstanding comments. And of course liberals think that self esteem, like everything else, can be given and not earned. Public schools suck because they have been overrun by liberal ideology. Glad they couldn't drug the male children for being male when I went.
     
    #22
  23. chad shaver

    chad shaver Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2004
    Messages:
    416
    That is the most rambling post I've seen in a while. I would thank you up front for confirming my suspicions, but I won't go there.

    I'm still not sure what your profession is (live television?), but if you think you're the best at it, then I must beg forgiveness for ever doubting you (that's called sarcasm, in case they didn't teach you that in school). I grovel at the feet of the self-proclaimed (notice the hyphen that you never use?) greatest ever in the field of, um, whatever you claim to do.

    Looking at your own writing here, I don't see how you're qualified to judge the writing of others. If you'd like, I can send you a list of corrections that you need to make. Perhaps they don't teach punctuation in journalism. Don't bother calling them typos, because consistent errors are not typographical errors. Then again, perhaps everything you wrote above is a massive load of bovine excrement.

    "Glad they couldn't drug the male children for being male when I went."

    Whatever you say. Anybody else think that sounds like a paranoid schizophrenic? I'm assuming you're talking about ADD/ADHD or something. I hope you are aware that females also have that supposed disorder.

    You may not understand this, but when you insult the school system, you're also insulting the people who bust their butts in them everyday. Say I'm part of the problem, if you please. Coming from you, that's a compliment.

    Please have your friend take the time to teach you about hyphens and run-on sentences.
     
    #23
  24. chad shaver

    chad shaver Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2004
    Messages:
    416
    I have a few more questions.

    You were kicked out of the 8th grade because you couldn't conform? So to what rules were you unable to conform? I bet they were all just out to get you, weren't they?

    Did you receive some special dispensation to go straight to college after you were kicked out of (expelled from) school? Did the Dean of the college just suddenly recognize your genius while passing you on the street one day?

    Total bovine excrement.
     
    #24
  25. David Pavlich

    David Pavlich Professional

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2004
    Messages:
    1,203
    Nader doesn't need to be in the debates. Anyone that has at least a hint of his politics knows where he stands (more than anyone can say about sKerry).

    He is a big government socialist that would do everything in his power to supress business. We'd all be driving tin cans with 2 cylinder engines. We'd have to depend on Canada for our military protection. The disposable income you now use to buy ncodes and Liquid Metals would be sucked up in taxes to pay for universal health care.

    There's a reason that Nader gets 2 or 3% of the vote. Think about it.

    David
     
    #25
  26. chad shaver

    chad shaver Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2004
    Messages:
    416
    Follow up to your post, David. Anybody know what Nader's net worth is?
     
    #26
  27. Rabbit

    Rabbit G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2004
    Messages:
    12,606
    Location:
    at the bottom of every hill I come to
    About half of what Michael Moore's is. Both of them lie about it.
     
    #27
  28. thejerk

    thejerk Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2004
    Messages:
    472
    If you want hyphens just look at the last names of democrat presidents and presidential candidates wives. Basically, I worked for a couple years before I went to college. I didn't even have to pay, I was awarded scholarships. That probably really p**es you off. As far as punctuation, sorry, I havn't been in a classroom in something like 15 or 20 years.
    Atleast we know that you drug equally, is that it. I was kicked out because listening to pedantic twits was beyond my patience. Attendance wasn't my strong suit.
    You say talking about the school system is the same as insulting the teachers. Let me guess "this is Bush's war but I support the troops." Am I close. Are you going to administer the "global test" for his majesty The Great Pumpkin. How about this "This is the wrong war at the wrong time" but he also supports the troops. I wonder do you put your candidate under the same expectations as you put me.
     
    #28
  29. chad shaver

    chad shaver Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2004
    Messages:
    416
    I never argued politics with you. Don't care argue politics with you. Stick to the points.

    You're bizarre and rambling. Come back and see me when you can actually argue a point and stay on topic.
     
    #29
  30. thejerk

    thejerk Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2004
    Messages:
    472
    I was arguing the point. The topic was about debates. I brought up the school system not teachers to explain some of the people wanting to hear Nader. I blame the school system for the lack of understanding about socialism and you get upset. I then proceeded to ramble about other problems associated with socialism/communism. Here's another, look at Russia, they lived under socialism for so long that they are letting the state under Puten take control of their media. Why are they letting it happen? In my opinion, socialism has made them effeminate. In Europe, populations are dropping fast enough to actually damage the social order within just a few more years or decades. After all, you know that tax payers must outnumber pensioners.
    When is the last time teachers unions threatened strikes for anything other than money? When do they ever strike for curricular purposes? Why can't I put federal funds allocated for my children into a private school? Even more horrifing, why can't I use those funds for a religiously oriented school? Socialism hates religion, that is why. The teachers union is directly involved in keeping my money tied up in their monopoly.
    Kerry is saying he would bow to the nuclear blackmail of North Korea. How is he going to negotiate with the pot bellied pig in North Korea. If schools were worth a thing the people listening would know that communists lie. He talks about coalitions and then says he would deal unilaterally with North Korea. Let asian countries off the hook so that it would be just America against NK. It was Clinton's negotiations, albeit, undermined by Carter, that gave the Pot Belly nukes anyway. Oh well, it ain't the first time Kerry negotiated with communists.
    And I guess in this instance unilateralism is o.k.
    Did Kerry say he was going to hold a summit to combat international terrorists? It must be that great plan he has, he will talk them into a comma.
    Did he say Iraq is wrong war at wrong time, but that everyone else should step in to help fight the wrong war. Ain't it funny that fighting terrorist in Iraq is a distraction from the war on terror.
     
    #30
  31. silent bob

    silent bob New User

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2004
    Messages:
    93
    thejerk is wrong about almost everything - except American schools. They really do suck.

    The exception that proves the rule is graduate schools. America's are the best in the world, and they are full of foreigners.

    My experience is not at all unusual. I graduated from university with a 4.0 GPA and was given a full fellowship to a top Ivy-league PhD programme (economics). I was one of only 4 Americans entering the program (out of maybe 25 students), and 2 of the Americans did not make it passed the first year of coursework. ALL of us got our a$$es kicked by the foreigners for about 2 years because we, the best and the brightest America had to offer, were so far behind the Europeans and Indians etc. - particularly when it came to math, and I had a math minor at university!

    We Americans were not stupid; in fact, when it eventually came time to award Doctorates and jobs, the Americans generally came out on top. We were just poorly educated going in relative to our foreign counterparts.
     
    #31
  32. chad shaver

    chad shaver Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2004
    Messages:
    416
    jerk,

    You're ASSuming that all teachers are member of a teachers' union. I wouldn't know when the last time teachers threatened to strike, because we've never had a strike in my state since I've been teaching, nor have we ever threatened to strike.

    Referring back to your previous post, schools do not drug their children. I would hope you are aware that prescriptions are written by doctors and not teachers, administrators or school janitors.

    Keep rambling, because I've reported you to Big Brother, and Big Brother is watching you. CITIZENS!!!! DO THE FUNKY CHICKEN!!!!!
     
    #32
  33. chad shaver

    chad shaver Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2004
    Messages:
    416
    Bob,

    Interesting that you used the British spelling for program, but used the term "passed" instead of "past".

    I'm curious to know how you "generally came out on top" of the heap, when only two of the original four Americans in the program failed to make it out of the first year.

    From my experience, the gap between "foreign" students and American students has much less to do with education than it does with work ethic.

    Another thing I have discovered over time is that students come into school having picked up the attitude that "our schools suck" from the ignorant and bitter masses, and therefore believe that they should not have to do much to pass.

    Please, continue to tell the world how bad our schools really are. I truly hope you succeed in undermining our credibility, so that you can eventually say that you can one day stand up and scream, "See? I told you so!".

    Sure, several people will read this and say that I'm just being defensive. But I must pose a question to you all: How long should one sit idly by and be attacked before deciding to defend?
     
    #33
  34. thejerk

    thejerk Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2004
    Messages:
    472
    You say ignorant and bitter masses, these must be the poeple that didn't go to public school. Why can't kids from public schools compete in spellling-beees.
     
    #34
  35. thejerk

    thejerk Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2004
    Messages:
    472
    Come-on, I realize that 90% of the problem is parents. The Foreign parents actually expect their kids to learn. They also don't rely solely on public schools.
     
    #35
  36. perfmode

    perfmode Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2004
    Messages:
    1,767
    American schools must really suck. Bush went to two of the country's best universities, harvard and yale, and he came out looking like a high school drop-out.
     
    #36
  37. thejerk

    thejerk Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2004
    Messages:
    472
    Yea and Swiss schools turn out robots. Listen to Kerry, I dare ya.
     
    #37
  38. chad shaver

    chad shaver Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2004
    Messages:
    416
    Perfmode, good to see you're still maintaining your "ghetto ass site where you can find a lotta sh1t about nothing".

    jerk, have fun with your ramblings.
     
    #38
  39. perfmode

    perfmode Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2004
    Messages:
    1,767
    That's an image. It was taken down in July, two weeks after I got it. The guy who gave it to me used a stolen credit card. All I lost was a gmail invite (boo-hoo).

    Sorry Mr. Bush supporter. This November we're getting our country back.
     
    #39
  40. chad shaver

    chad shaver Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2004
    Messages:
    416
    perfmoda and jerk,

    I think I get it now. I don't agree with you guys about one thing, so I'm automatically a Bush supporter? So, I guess you're kinda like one of those "either you're with us, or you're against us" types. Seems like we heard Bush say that once, didn't we?

    Perhaps you two should go back and point out to me where I said I support Bush.
     
    #40
  41. perfmode

    perfmode Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2004
    Messages:
    1,767
    I made fun of Bush's education and you went bezerk.

    Btw, how old are you? Do you feel cool arguing over the internet with a 16 year old?
     
    #41
  42. chad shaver

    chad shaver Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2004
    Messages:
    416
    Sorry, pal. I didn't go beRzerk. I'm guessing that if I were disregard you because of your age, you would try to use that against me. But I'm curious about one thing. If you're only sixteen, who is this "we" that you say is going to take "our country back"? You won't be voting. I will give you credit in one regard, however. I do think that you will not be one of those who wastes his right to vote.

    Did you happen to read the rest of this thread to see what the actual argument was, or did you just chime in at random?
     
    #42
  43. silent bob

    silent bob New User

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2004
    Messages:
    93
    Chad -

    10 years abroad has bastardised my spelling, which was never brilliant.

    As for my "coming out on top" comment, that is the well-established pattern at all the top PhD programmes in America (at least for economics). The Americans get their tails kicked in the first couple years of coursework whilst they catch up. However, by the end, the ones that make it through generally write the some of the more interesting dissertations and, therefore, are offered some of the best jobs. In other words, we start in the bottom quartile, but if you only judge those that make it through, Americans generally end up in the top quartile or at least top half.

    It's a fact, Chad. No need to over-analyse my grammar for clues to why I would want to mislead tennis fans all over the world. I'm actually with you on many of your criticisms of thejerk's views.
     
    #43
  44. chad shaver

    chad shaver Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2004
    Messages:
    416
    I apologize, bob. I took my irritation with others out on you.

    I think it is important to remember, though, that the educational systems are different elsewhere. Remember that while we seek to educate all students to the same level, many places only allow the best and brightest to continue past a certain level in academic tracks, while the rest are then moved into vocational programs. When you allow only the "best and the brightest" past a certain level in high school, you can obviously go much farther preparing them for college.

    Other countries may be better at making the best and brightest even better and brighter, but we in the USA are charged with trying to give everyone an equal education.

    On this point, I will respectfully disagree with you.

    You weren't kidding about having your spelling bastardized. You're in England, I'm guessing?
     
    #44
  45. Phil

    Phil Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2004
    Messages:
    3,877
    Location:
    In a tent, along the Silk Road
    Live television? So you're the gofer who runs and gets water, sandwiches, toilet paper, etc. for the "talent" when they need it? What "live" television are we talking about? As far as your schooling, I'm guessing that you rode on the short bus. Don't mistake not conforming with not having a clue.
     
    #45
  46. silent bob

    silent bob New User

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2004
    Messages:
    93
    Hi Chad. No worries. I'm actually in Asia.

    I think you are right about the different priorities when it comes to the high school level and below. That is very obvious in the UK, which has the highest drop-out rate in the developed world, if I am not mistaken.

    Still, I think our universities are asking far less of our undergrads than many universities abroad, particularly in respect to numeracy. I agree with the theory behind liberal arts degrees, but as practiced at most universities, it is a recipe for mediocrity.

    Also, even if you judge America's high schools by these different priorities, it seems to me that a disturbing number of them fail to meet even those goals.

    I think Americans do not have much respect for the teaching profession. At the university i attended, those getting degrees in education were widely considered the least academically inclined students in the university. It was considered the path of least resistance to a degree for the academically challenged or unmotivated. Are those the people currently educating America's youth?
     
    #46
  47. chad shaver

    chad shaver Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2004
    Messages:
    416
    Bob,

    Most teachers do not have under-graduate degrees in education. We actually get them in the subject we plan to teach.

    "At the university i attended, those getting degrees in education were widely considered the least academically inclined students in the university. It was considered the path of least resistance to a degree for the academically challenged or unmotivated. Are those the people currently educating America's youth?"

    And if that truly is the case, why don't some of the more brilliant, altruistic types who sit in judgement come down and take our place? Now this is the point where I begin to get hostile.
     
    #47
  48. Phil

    Phil Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2004
    Messages:
    3,877
    Location:
    In a tent, along the Silk Road
    A common view of engineers or technology types-those who excel at numbers, but can barely hold a coherent conversation. I've heard this comment or variations since I was an undergrad, from nerds who could operate a slide rule in their sleep but couldn't tell you when the War of 1812 began. Where is your "data" that liberal arts study is a disaster?

    Why is it, do you think, that America holds a worldwide edge in registered patents, technology advances, is supreme in the computer field, aviation and countless others, and boasts of more Nobel Prize Winners than, probably, the rest of the world combined? There is something else there, Bob, that goes beyond your comments on public schooling. Your analysis of this "problem" is not only shallow and flawed, but it has no basis in reality. Why are those foreigners who, as you said, left you in the dust in grad school, so keen to study in America with, usually, American professors?
     
    #48
  49. chad shaver

    chad shaver Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2004
    Messages:
    416
    Good to hear from you, Phil. I think I've made a mistake in trying to be polite and reasonable.
     
    #49
  50. Phil

    Phil Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2004
    Messages:
    3,877
    Location:
    In a tent, along the Silk Road
    No you haven't, Chad. It's just that I'm a pri*k;-)!!
     
    #50

Share This Page