AO 2009 Final - Rafa Nadal vs. Roger Federer

Discussion in 'Pro Match Results and Discussion' started by P_Agony, Jan 30, 2009.

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Federer vs. Nadal

  1. Federer in 3

    40 vote(s)
    14.3%
  2. Federer in 4

    88 vote(s)
    31.4%
  3. Federer in 5

    26 vote(s)
    9.3%
  4. Nadal in 3

    8 vote(s)
    2.9%
  5. Nadal in 4

    34 vote(s)
    12.1%
  6. Nadal in 5

    50 vote(s)
    17.9%
  7. Verdasco kills Nadal in the middle of the match

    34 vote(s)
    12.1%
  1. Mick

    Mick Legend

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    the way i see it, a tired and worn out nadal still poses a serious threat to federer than a totally fit roddick.
     
  2. TheTruth

    TheTruth G.O.A.T.

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    More like the organisers.
     
  3. TheTruth

    TheTruth G.O.A.T.

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    Name one experienced, chokeless player he played.
     
  4. luckyboy1300

    luckyboy1300 Hall of Fame

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    the australian open has been like that for a long time now. if you want to blame someone, blame nadal for being number 1. if he had been number 2 he should've been scheduled on thursday and federer on friday.
     
  5. luckyboy1300

    luckyboy1300 Hall of Fame

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    del potro, roddick
     
  6. Gorecki

    Gorecki G.O.A.T.

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    wrong thread
     
  7. zagor

    zagor Talk Tennis Guru

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    Fed was number one last year at AO and he played the second semifinal,didn't see anyone complaining then.And nobody could have expected that Verdasco(a 25 year old player who never reached top 10)would play so great during the whole AO,let alone push Nadal the way he did.
     
  8. Messarger

    Messarger Hall of Fame

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    One of them is inexperince, while the other's a choker when he plays Federer.
     
  9. P_Agony

    P_Agony Banned

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    If Fed would have met Berdych in the semi it wouldn't have been 5 sets, but rather a relaxing match for Fed. Let me explain:

    1) Nothing goes smoothly for Fed in early rounds of any tourney. Wev'e seen that not only against Berdych, but also Andreev and Tipsy, time and time again. When Fed progresses his game becomes better and he adjusts himself to the surface.

    2) Fed's serve was gone until the second part of the Berdych match. When things turned around for the better in this match, it was heavily due to Fed's serve whcih came back at the right time. Since then he's been serving like a god.

    3) Federer has the ability to up his level and win when he needs to, and it works most of the time. This ability is what kept him on top for so long.

    Like I said before, if Federer losses to Nadal, it'll be purely a mental thing. Nadal is not the better player, and if Nadal wasn't a leftie, he'd stand no chance.
     
  10. P_Agony

    P_Agony Banned

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    Oh come on - it's a bit funny.
     
  11. Sentinel

    Sentinel Bionic Poster

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    I am going crazy waiting for the final. The awesome semi really whetted my appetite.

    ^^^ Good question, pagony.
     
  12. carlos djackal

    carlos djackal Professional

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    Fed in 4, I think Nadal would be too worn out to win, the schedule didn't help, and a countyman named verdasco didn't cooperate.....while Fed is fresh and is playing like his oldself.....anyway i want Fed win his 14th slam....Nadal at 22 has the luxury of time to achieve this while Fed's time is closing soon......
     
  13. Oui c'est moi.

    Oui c'est moi. Hall of Fame

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    I'm rooting for Roger. As always.

    Whether he does it in 3, 4 or 5 i don't care, he's not playing for another 3 weeks anyway.
     
  14. P_Agony

    P_Agony Banned

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    Interesting - nearly 70% of the voters believe Federer will win.

    Nearly 27% of the voters think Nadal will win (and I'm one of them).

    Anyone remember the prediction stats from Wimbeldon?
     
  15. T1000

    T1000 Hall of Fame

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    I think Fed will win in 4. If he plays with confidence like he did against del potro he should win easily
     
  16. malakas

    malakas Banned

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    I am very excited about this final!!!I hope and believe Rogi can win this,and have his 14th Slam!:D Tomorrow will be a historic day!And it's on at 10:30 am here,what a better way to spend Sunday morning?:)
     
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2009
  17. West Coast Ace

    West Coast Ace G.O.A.T.

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    Fed in 3 pretty tight sets. 14 in the bag; 15 at SW19...

    I just hope they got all of Verdasco's hair gel mopped up so neither player or the ballkids slip and break a bone... :)
     
  18. P_Agony

    P_Agony Banned

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    Man I wish I could be as sure as you fellow Fed fans.
     
  19. malakas

    malakas Banned

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    It would be idiotic to be sure against Nadal,but I have faith and trust on Rogi.:) I believe he will capture his 14th in 4 tight sets and I will be sure to be glued on my TV watching.:)
     
  20. NandoMania

    NandoMania Rookie

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    :) :grin: :mrgreen:
     
  21. YouCantBeSerious

    YouCantBeSerious Banned

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    Well, I respect Federer a lot, and think he is one of the best players to ever play the game. But what you are saying is plain ridiculous. So you say that Fed is almost like God and better than Nadal, and if he doesn't win it's just mental and because Nadal is a leftie. If Fed is so good and Nadal is so inferior to him, why hasn't Fed been able to adapt his game after 18 meetings with Nadal?

    If two guys meet 18 times and one of them wins 2 out of 3, I find it hard to reason that the other guy is better than the one that usually wins. He might have more achievements (but you have to take into account their age as well,) and his game might be more pleasing in some ways (some of his shots might be more beautiful to watch.) But to say he is better is stretching things a little. Unless he has been letting Nadal win all this years, in that case he is better not only as a tennis player, but as a human being. :)

    P.S.: Djoko is way better than all of them. It was just really hot that day, and Roddick was making some weird facial gestures and that distracted Novak during his serves.
     
  22. vicnan

    vicnan Professional

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    Church? LOL. I'm kidding.
     
  23. john5527

    john5527 Semi-Pro

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    I am going to go with nadal in 4. However, I could be wrong. Hard to predict. Nadal will run down anything, so it really depends on how rested he is.
     
  24. john5527

    john5527 Semi-Pro

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    I don't like one or the other better as a player. I see that a lot of people want Fed to lose. May the best man win is how I always view it. Leave it all on the court.
     
  25. wilsonplayer

    wilsonplayer Rookie

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    as much as i want fed to win this in 4 or 5 (just so that there's more tennis played), i truly believe nadal will win this one, unfortunately. fed has shown too much up and down tennis throughout the fortnight and nadal's been too consistently awesome (even in that five setter, truly outstanding tennis)
     
  26. illkhiboy

    illkhiboy Hall of Fame

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    I don't agree with you or P.Agony's reasoning. Federer, I think, is the better player than Nadal and the respective records of both players prove that. However, P. Agony when he says appears to be saying that the mental aspect is not to be viewed when judging the better player. That is absolutely wrong as Federer's mental capabilities are exactly what makes him better than everyone else.

    I also don't agree with you when you say that Federer is not neccesarily better than Nadal because of their H2H. Their head-to-head is skewed because majority of their matches are on clay where Nadal is clearly the better player. On all other surfaces, their head-to-head is in Federer's favor (5-3). Besides, Sampras had a losing record against Kracijek at one point because the match-up was unfavorable to him yet it never meant he wasn't the better player.

    By the way, this whole thing about Federer having a mental block against Nadal is outdated. Federer definitely has problems against Nadal and finds him hard to deal with but a mental block? Based on what? His 5-3 record against him on everything but clay?

    I think it wouldn't be such a farfetched statement if it was said he has a mental block against Nadal on clay (refer to Monte Carlo/Hamburg finals this year). However, he had no problems finishing Nadal off in Shanghai. Or bagelling him at Wimbledon and beating him twice there. Ok it wasn't easy at Wimbledon but Nadal's a great player on grass.
     
  27. Zaragoza

    Zaragoza Banned

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    Federer-Nadal played 3 matches in outdoor hardcourts. Nadal won in 2 of them and the other one Federer won in 5 sets when Nadal was up 2 sets and still a bit unexperienced in 5 set matches.
    Nadal has gotten better on hardcourts since then. He is also a bad matchup for Federer on outdoor hardcourts but I can't see him winning the final after the marathon match he played.
     
  28. Tarsier

    Tarsier Professional

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    LMAO....... Roddick eliminated world's #3 in a GS quarter-final by showing him his tongue during his serves:lol::lol::lol:
     
  29. TheMusicLover

    TheMusicLover Legend

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    After having seen pictures of Roddick's tongue, I suddenly understand Djoko's retirement a lot better, ha ha. :shock: :mrgreen:
     
  30. P_Agony

    P_Agony Banned

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    It isn't ridiculous at all, perhaps you didn't understand. What I'm saying is Federer is a far more talented and more complete player than Nadal. However, that doesn't mean he will fare well in their matches. Nadal has a huge atvantage of being a leftie. His forehand, which is his strongest shot, goes to Fed's backhand, which is his weakest shot, and on top of that it comes with a lot of spin and bounces really high. It's not that Fed doesn't want to adapt his game - he can't. No one with a 1HBH can. Nadal uses this tactic against Haas, Gasquet, Blake, anyone with with a one hander. When he doesn't have this weapon, he is very beatable - just ask Djokovic, Murray, Nalbandian, Davydenko - all of them have very solid 2HBH. It's his strongest weapon against Fed, and it's far stronger than any weapon Fed has against Nadal. And still their matches are usually very close, regardless of who wins. Now imagine Nadal as right handed - I don't think he'd give Fed as much problem. I truly think their H2H would then favor Fed. This big atvantage of Nadal is causing Federer a mental block, and that is never a good thing.

    A player can be better than another player but the other player can be a bad matchup for the first player. Nadal is a bad matchup for Federer, but is he better? Not yet. He needs at least the amount of slams Fed has for that.

    So the Nadal fans can cry all they want about the atvantage Fed as with the days of rest - Nadal has a far bigger atvantage.
     
  31. MEAC_ALLAMERICAN

    MEAC_ALLAMERICAN Legend

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    Roger Federer for #4 down under and #14 overall in 4 sets.



    Not bad for a man who has been losing his edge for some time now.
     
  32. drakulie

    drakulie Talk Tennis Guru

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    Fed has a winning record against Nadal on 2 of the 3 surfaces.

    3-2 on hard.
    2-1 on grass.

    Nadal has a huge edge on fed on clay. 9-1


    They have met 10 times on the surface nadal has the edge, and 8 times on the other surfaces. This, with **WAY** more tournaments played on hard/grass combined >>> than clay. I'll remind you there are a lot more hard court surfaces than clay.

    The reason Nadal has all those oportunties to play fed on clay, is because Fed is good enough to consistently make it to the finals of those very few clay court tournaments, whereas nadal has not been good enough to consistently make it to the finals of hard courts tournaments. If anything, nadal needs to "adapt/improve" on hard courts, which he seems to be doing the last few months.
     
  33. zapvor

    zapvor Legend

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    good point drak
     
  34. Barca tennis

    Barca tennis Rookie

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    Cant wait for the match to start!!!!
    Nadal in 4th set
    VAMOS Rafa!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    Sending all are energy to you from Barcelona!:):)
     
  35. epicsocks

    epicsocks Banned

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    fed in 3..........
     
  36. pushing_wins

    pushing_wins Hall of Fame

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    is nadal part red indian?
     
  37. J-man

    J-man Hall of Fame

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    I am going with Federer in 4. I think he is well rested and not to forget he is playing well. We will see how rested Nadal.
     
  38. YouCantBeSerious

    YouCantBeSerious Banned

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    I agree partially with what you say. I agree that Federer is a more complete player than Nadal based on the variety of his playing style. Whether that makes for a better player is questionable however. It's clear that Nadal is a bad match for Federer. My point is that for Federer to have Nadal as such a stumbling block is not very reassuring for his legacy as the GOAT. A player like Federer should find a way to adapt and counteract any other player's strengths. Why can't he put 2HBH into his repertoir, and use it as needed when he plays Nadal? Nadal has evolved his style of play himself. Not too long ago nobody believed he could consistently achieve success outside of clay and to less extent grass.

    I think the mental part of it is important and plays a good part into the troubles that he has with Nadal, but I see it a little differently. Here's my theory: Fed believes he is the best ever, and he is unwilling to change his game to beat Nadal. He thinks his game should be good enough as it is to beat Rafa, yet the results have proven consistently that's not the case. That's all there is to it. I think this was especially devastating to Fed at last year's Winbledon, when he lost to Rafa something that "rightfully" belonged to him. How dare Rafa beat Fed in a GS final outside of RG's clay?

    Fed is extraordinarily talented and, yes, one of the best ever. But he needs to change in order to solidly establish his legacy as the GOAT. Nadal started eating the other half of the cake last year at Wimby. If he takes another slice in Australia that might be the last reason Fed needs to start reconsidering his game. And I hope he does.
     
  39. IvanAndreevich

    IvanAndreevich Legend

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    I can definitely see him winning, he just shouldn't be the favorite.
     
  40. YouCantBeSerious

    YouCantBeSerious Banned

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    Agreed. Fed has a favorable record 5/3 outside clay with Rafa. And they haven't played in hard since late 2007, way before Rafa started adapting his game. I think we are going to have many more opportunities in the next few months and years to see them play outside clay, and hopefully it will make for some interesting matches. First one is tonight. :)
     
  41. YouCantBeSerious

    YouCantBeSerious Banned

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    Yes. Yes, he is. He belongs to the tribe of the Tennasati where he is a warrior. They paint their face with red clay and like to practice human sacrifice, mainly Swiss settlers unwilling to change their habits.
     
  42. P_Agony

    P_Agony Banned

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    There is no perfect player, and I'm one of the people who think the GOAT title is as silly as they come. The reason: There is no GOAT. Every player has his bad match ups. You are also forgetting Rafa is in his prime at the moment, while Fed is not so young anymore. He's slower, his strokes are weaker and inconsistent. The fact he's still a major force in tennis, beating younger and fresher guys than him is amazing. Nadal has a losing streak against Nalbandian - does that make Nadal a worse player? Will that hurt his legacy? No and no. Fed cannot adapt, he's too old for that, he doesn't have a coach, and I don't see how he can. But Nadal being a leftie is the main reason for all those losses you talk about, and not Federer being a worse player - he's clearly not.
     
  43. IvanAndreevich

    IvanAndreevich Legend

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    I agree. Nadal will have to be way more aggressive against Roger this time around to have a chance of winning. Otherwise, he will be spent and would still probably lose fairly quickly. The pusher tactics was working as defense against Nando, but I anticipate Federer being much more willing to come in and hit the easy volley.
     
  44. TheMusicLover

    TheMusicLover Legend

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    :lol: :lol: :lol:
     
  45. YouCantBeSerious

    YouCantBeSerious Banned

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    I agree that the GOAT title is a little overplayed. But it's not a completely worthless discussion to try to put each player in a relative spot in history. My worries are that Nadal is hurting Fed's legacy by putting the resistance he is putting up against him. Some of Fed's historic comments about Nadal being one dimensional and such have turned out to be backfiring. If Nadal actually ended up with GS titles in every surface and Fed didn't, it would make those comments the more ironic.

    Nadal has a losing H2H against Nalbandian, but you simply can't compare a 12/6 H2H (Nadal/Federer) with a 0/2 H2H (Nadal/Nalbandian.) While the H2H results don't tell the whole story (it's presumably true that if Nadal had reached hardcourt finals against Federer more often the overall results would e more balanced) I think you can't just outright dismiss it as something meaningless.

    Federer is to old to adapt? Come on... Yes, he is 27, but also one of the best ever, and his playing style means that he has probably put less miles than some 24 yo players. And look at what Agassi did. That's the sort of mentality (too old to adapt, should be good enough to win as it is) that promotes unwillingness to change and that is doomed to failure. And yes, Federer should get a coach. That's one of his problems, and is also probably due to his "I am good enough to do it by my own" mentality. Either get a regular coach, or ask uncle Pierre back in Switzerland to give him a hand. Seems to have worked for Rafa.
     
  46. Duke_Grievousangel

    Duke_Grievousangel New User

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    You know, for someone who can't keep quiet about a beatdown in the final, you have a hard time distinguishing between a tank-job and beatdown.
     
  47. Telepatic

    Telepatic Legend

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    Vamos, Nadal in 5!
     
  48. zagor

    zagor Talk Tennis Guru

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    Eeach GOAT contender has some hole in his resumee(except maybe Laver but for him people will claim it was too long ago,the game has changed,players are better now etc.).Borg retired early after Mcenroe took the number one spot from him,Sampras was a non-contender on clay(he had really mediocre results on that suface for a potential GOAT),Fed has a losing H2H against Nadal,Agassi even though he won a career slam and was amazing at adapting to different surfaces has a slam count below 10,a losing H2H against Sampras and was never number one for a longer period etc. etc. etc.
    If Fed was a non-factor on clay like say Sampras was he wouldn't have a losing H2H against Nadal simply because he wouldn't reach the masters and FO finals to face him.
     
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2009
  49. YouCantBeSerious

    YouCantBeSerious Banned

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    That's a good point. Is he good enough to not just reach the final, but win it? Now, that would be impressive.
     
  50. Serve_Ace

    Serve_Ace Professional

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    I'm thinking a good first set from Federer something like 6-4 then the second he'll play loose a bit and lose, and then go on the take the next two sets after he just takes it to a whole new level
     

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