Apparently, Sampras still thinks he's the GOAT!!!

Discussion in 'Former Pro Player Talk' started by fed_rulz, Dec 30, 2012.

  1. THUNDERVOLLEY

    THUNDERVOLLEY G.O.A.T.

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    Obviously reasoning escaped you, since the OP's premise was based on unsubstantiated BS, yet he had an agenda to press. Without concrete evidence, this is yet another Fed-fanboy whine-a-thon about how "great" their false "god" is...the guy who could not win the Grand Slam.
     
  2. fed_rulz

    fed_rulz Hall of Fame

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    if the result was never in doubt, where does the element of uncertainty come from?
     
  3. fed_rulz

    fed_rulz Hall of Fame

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    I thought you said earlier in the thread that one can't compare across eras? whatever happened to it?
     
  4. THUNDERVOLLEY

    THUNDERVOLLEY G.O.A.T.

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    ...a fluke title only won because he did not have to face Nadal in the final that year. Speaks volumes about how Federer needed luck to give him his one and only shot at the FO title.
     
  5. 90's Clay

    90's Clay Legend

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    Fed's lack of mental toughness caused that.. In contrast, with the Fed-Roddick "rivalry", Roddick just didn't have enough talent to compete with Federer
     
  6. timnz

    timnz Legend

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    Uncertainty

    When they meet off clay no one is certain who will win. At the moment Federer is leading the non-clay head to head but there isn't much in it.
     
  7. 90's Clay

    90's Clay Legend

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    I don't think you can choose any type of "hands down" GOAT. But certain eras produce more talent then others on certain surfaces.
     
  8. fed_rulz

    fed_rulz Hall of Fame

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    talk about agenda.... why do you feel the need to remind everyone that Federer hasn't won the Grand Slam in every thread about Federer? Insecure much? If the Grand Slam is the holy grail of tennis achievements, surely you don't have to bring it up pretty much in every GOAT debate (using your own logic...)

    btw, show me where in the OP I sang praises of how "great" my false "god" is? We're discussing whether Sampras is right in his supposed claims or not, and where he stands in relation to Federer. I don't see anyone proclaiming Federer as GOAT here; you felt slighted that your true "god" Laver was shortchanged because... Sampras felt he was GOAT, and others here felt he wasn't???
     
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2012
  9. mistik

    mistik Hall of Fame

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    Winning most majors doesnt make you goat.Sampras for sure is more explosive player than Fed on faster surfaces.Fed dominated weakest generation the men tennis ever seen with the likes of Hewitt, Roddick.When a strong rival came,he burst on the tears.That says it all.
     
  10. Povl Carstensen

    Povl Carstensen Legend

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    Even if that is true, (and a fact, he), Petes RG results are much more than two times worse than Federers.
     
  11. mistik

    mistik Hall of Fame

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    Clay was slower in 90s as well.
     
  12. Prisoner of Birth

    Prisoner of Birth Banned

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    You win a Grand Slam by being the best player in the draw.

    If Federer wasn't the best player at the 2009 Roland Garros, who is? Answer this question or shut up.
     
  13. fed_rulz

    fed_rulz Hall of Fame

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    if two players from different eras cannot be compared (that is according to you), you see it convenient to compare two groups of players across eras and slam one as being weak? GameSampras, give it up. your hypocrisy has been exposed.
     
  14. pringles

    pringles Semi-Pro

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    You can take away Federer's 2009 FO away from him but a gazillion finals is still better than a handful of humiliating 1st round losses that Sampras suffered to complete journeymen at the FO.
     
  15. Povl Carstensen

    Povl Carstensen Legend

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    If Federer had not dominated it, it would be considered strong, it goes both ways.
     
  16. Prisoner of Birth

    Prisoner of Birth Banned

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    :lol: OWNAGE!
     
  17. timnz

    timnz Legend

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    Objective comparison between Sampras and Nadal using Masters 1000 events and greater

    If we just look at the events where you can score 1000 points or greater...if we compare the two using the current ATP points system. (Note that i have put 1300 points for Sampras WTF wins because every one of them he won whilst losing 1 round robin match hence 1500 points - 200 points = 1300 points).

    Sampras = (14 Slams x 2000) + (5 WTF x 1300) + (4 Slam Finals x 1200) + (11 Masters 1000 x 1000) = 50300

    Nadal = (11 Slams x 2000) + (0 WTF x 1400) + (5 Slam Finals x 1200) + (21 Masters 1000's x 1000) = 49000

    So very close - Sampras just edging out Nadal by just 1300 points. Hence, highly likely that Nadal will edge Sampras out this year.

    Note: You may argue with the points I have given the various events, but they are the ATP points system not my own.
     
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2012
  18. Prisoner of Birth

    Prisoner of Birth Banned

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    Actually, Federer won 13 Grand Slam titles since the "strong rival" came.
     
  19. Povl Carstensen

    Povl Carstensen Legend

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    Are you saying Sampras is a stronger clay player than Federer?
     
  20. mistik

    mistik Hall of Fame

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    Thats nothing to do with Fed.Hewitt,Roddick type of players can only be a rival in a transition era.They have no business of being N01 under normal circumstances.
     
  21. 90's Clay

    90's Clay Legend

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    Fed's walk to the finals a lot of those years were WAYY easier then Petes.


    Round Opponent Ranking Score
    R128 Luis Horna (PER) 88 L 6-7(6), 2-6, 6-7(3)

    Round Opponent Ranking Score
    R128 Kristof Vliegen (BEL) 110 W 6-1, 6-2, 6-1 Stats
    R64 Nicolas Kiefer (GER) 34 W 6-3, 6-4, 7-6(6)

    Round Opponent Ranking Score
    R128 Dudi Sela (ISR) 264 W 6-1, 6-4, 6-0 Stats
    R64 Nicolas Almagro (ESP) 76 W 6-3, 7-6(0), 6-2 Stats
    R32 Fernando Gonzalez (CHI) 26 W 7-6(9), 7-5, 6-2 Stats
    R16 Carlos Moya (ESP) 15 W 6-1, 6-4, 6-3 Stats
    Q Victor Hanescu (ROU) 90 W 6-2, 7-6(3), 6-3

    R128 Diego Hartfield (ARG) 157 W 7-5, 7-6(2), 6-2 Stats
    R64 Alejandro Falla (COL) 139 W 6-1, 6-4, 6-3 Stats
    R32 Nicolas Massu (CHI) 35 W 6-1, 6-2, 6-7(4), 7-5 Stats
    R16 Tomas Berdych (CZE) 20 W 6-3, 6-2, 6-3 Stats
    Q Mario Ancic (CRO) 12 W 6-4, 6-3, 6-4 Stats
    S David Nalbandian (ARG) 3 W 3-6, 6-4, 5-2 RET


    Round Opponent Ranking Score
    R128 Michael Russell (USA) 68 W 6-4, 6-2, 6-4 Stats
    R64 Thierry Ascione (FRA) 168 W 6-1, 6-2, 7-6(8) Stats
    R32 Potito Starace (ITA) 57 W 6-2, 6-3, 6-0 Stats
    R16 Mikhail Youzhny (RUS) 15 W 7-6(3), 6-4, 6-4 Stats
    Q Tommy Robredo (ESP) 9 W 7-5, 1-6, 6-1, 6-2 Stats
    S Nikolay Davydenko (RUS) 4 W 7-5, 7-6(5), 7-6(7)

    R128 Sam Querrey (USA) 40 W 6-4, 6-4, 6-3 Stats
    R64 Albert Montanes (ESP) 60 W 6-7(5), 6-1, 6-0, 6-4 Stats
    R32 Mario Ancic (CRO) 46 W 6-3, 6-4, 6-2 Stats
    R16 Julien Benneteau (FRA) 55 W 6-4, 7-5, 7-5 Stats
    Q Fernando Gonzalez (CHI) 25 W 2-6, 6-2, 6-3, 6-4 Stats
    S Gael Monfils (FRA) 59 W 6-2, 5-7, 6-3, 7-5


    If those were Pete's routes to the final of the French Open over a 4-5 year period.. Id like his chances at a French Open title too.
     
  22. forzamilan90

    forzamilan90 Legend

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    you're way too nice to that troll THUNDERVOLLEY, shut your f***** blasphemous mouth would have been more appropriate.
     
  23. pringles

    pringles Semi-Pro

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    Federer has reached 3 Monte Carlo finals in a row on the slowest possible clay. Why couldn't Sampras do it?

    Clay depth again?

    I guess so if even guys ranked below 100th could take Sampras out on clay. It was that tough.
     
  24. Prisoner of Birth

    Prisoner of Birth Banned

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    Nadal is well on his way to surpassing Sampras. If he gets to 14 Grand Slams, like I think he will, I'd say he's surpassed him. If he gets to 15, it becomes almost indisputable.
     
  25. fed_rulz

    fed_rulz Hall of Fame

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    yet, Sampras could not make use of his luck the 13 years he competed at the FO without Nadal. your point?
     
  26. mistik

    mistik Hall of Fame

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    We didnt see Sampras playing in todays clay which is clearly faster.İn 90s player like Soderling couldnt even dream to reach RG final.
     
  27. Prisoner of Birth

    Prisoner of Birth Banned

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    Sampras had 5 wins and 6 losses since 1996 at RG. Don't make me laugh.
     
  28. Povl Carstensen

    Povl Carstensen Legend

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    But Pete did not go anywhere.
     
  29. Phoenix1983

    Phoenix1983 Hall of Fame

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    Six consecutive years ending as No 1 in the Open Era?

    Also your argument is a bit misleading. Maybe Nadal's single-surface dominance will "never be broken", but that doesn't mean he gets to rank above Sampras overall, even if the latter has no "unbreakable" records. You cannot achieve the vast majority of your numbers on one surface and expect to be ranked above guys who dominated on multiple surfaces like Federer, Laver, Sampras and Borg.
     
  30. fed_rulz

    fed_rulz Hall of Fame

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    so, Federer gets points because he's mentally weak, but with a wealth of talent, but Roddick gets dinged because does not have similar talent? despite the result not being in doubt? wow, you sure are generous :)
     
  31. Povl Carstensen

    Povl Carstensen Legend

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    I can understand why you did not answer my question.
     
  32. mistik

    mistik Hall of Fame

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    Even Monte Carlo isnt what i used to be.
     
  33. fed_rulz

    fed_rulz Hall of Fame

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    so soderling would reach the finals of Wimbledon in the 90s on fast grass? apparently, the speed of the surface seems to matter....
     
  34. pringles

    pringles Semi-Pro

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    In 2004 Sampras is not beating Kuerten. If he managed Kuerten (the last time Guga was GOATing) he would then face Nalbandian, Gaudio and Coria. Good luck.
    In 2005 Sampras gets humiliated by Nadal in the SF (if he somehow manages to beat Moya in the QF or even Hanescu)
    In 2006 Sampras loses to Nalbandian
    In 2007 to Robredo or Davydenko. Davydenko from that FO would own Sampras. Or wait, this is the period when Sampras started losing to complete mugs. Make that Michael Russell, then.
    2008 - Montanes
    2009 - anyone, really. Haas was playing fantastic. Monfils wasn't easy to beat. Del Potro was in great form. Soderling needless to say.
    2010 - Soderling. I don't even bother to check the rest. Probably someone in the 1st or 2nd round would be good enough.
    2011 - Djokovic
    2012 - Djokovic
     
  35. Povl Carstensen

    Povl Carstensen Legend

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    It is relative between Fed and them. Without him, it would be a strong era with multiple slam winners. I think we have been over this.
     
  36. Phoenix1983

    Phoenix1983 Hall of Fame

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    I doubt Nadal will reach 14 slams - at the moment he can barely get back on tour. At the moment people should be concerned about him surpassing Borg.

    If he does reach 14 slams, it depends how they are distributed - I will NOT consider him greater than Sampras if 10 of those slams are at the FO.
     
  37. mistik

    mistik Hall of Fame

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    Nadal managed to win career slam.Thats his strong card towards Sampras. He has at least 2 majors in every surface.Sampras NONE on clay.
     
  38. pringles

    pringles Semi-Pro

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    What, they use older bricks to make clay? What kind of an arguement is that?

    MC is as slow as a surface can be.
     
  39. fed_rulz

    fed_rulz Hall of Fame

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    Sampras has 2 slams on slower surfaces, and 12 on faster. are you ok with that distribution?
     
  40. Hitman

    Hitman G.O.A.T.

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    Good post. Well balanced in all arguments. Man, this thread has gotten really ugly. I am happy with these tennis icons being the greatest of their eras, since that is proven fact, but I don't understand why there is such intense fighting over the GOAT. Does it really matter that much? Maybe I am saying that because I am big fan of Federer and Sampras, and Borg, and also admire Nadal, Agassi and Laver.
     
  41. mistik

    mistik Hall of Fame

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    Not really since he is a tall player but no serve and volley style he would have difficulty there as well with a low bounce.Maybe he would do better in Us open.
     
  42. pringles

    pringles Semi-Pro

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    What makes him even think that the same Sampras who couldn't even beat Blanco or Schaller was suddenly going to make FO finals facing different competition?

    If 1997-2002 Sampras faced Benneteau in the 1st round of the FO he would've lost. Heck, I could even scroll through the first top 100 players in the rankings currently and every single one of them would be capable of beating 1997-2002 Sampras at the French Open.
     
  43. 90's Clay

    90's Clay Legend

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    2006- Nalbandian got injured, and 1996 if we transport Pete ahead 10 years later that was the Sampras that took out Bruguera and Courier back to back. Yet he couldn't beat an injured Nalbandian? Huh??
    2007- Davydenko and Robredo? Seriously??
    2003-Horna? 1993 Sampras lost to a peak Bruguera
    2004- Pete would face plastic hipped Guga- (He had to play against close to peak Courier in 94 which is>>>>>>Injured Kuerten
    2009- 1999 Lost to Medvedev>>>>>>Haas. Soderling is just a hardcourt ball basher.. I wouldn't call him a great clay court player. Dude was PATHETIC in the finals of the french that year. (Nadal injured which was the only reason Soderling won)
     
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2012
  44. pringles

    pringles Semi-Pro

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    What makes you think Soderling would play the exact same way in the 90's?
     
  45. Phoenix1983

    Phoenix1983 Hall of Fame

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    The point is he has 7 grass slams, 7 HC slams and 5 YECs on carpet. Yes he has nothing on clay which is a weakness.

    Nadal could theoretically get 14 slams of which 10 were at the FO. Then he would have 10 clay slams, 2 grass and 2 hard. No YECs.

    I just don't think a guy can focus so much on one surface - even if he has won on others - and rack up numbers which supposedly allow him to surpass greats like Sampras and Borg.

    I'm sure you would agree that if Nadal reached 17 slams, with 13 at the FO, that he wouldn't be greater than Federer. :)
     
  46. fed_rulz

    fed_rulz Hall of Fame

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    how did you conclude Medvedev >>>>>> Haas, when they both are from different eras?
     
  47. mistik

    mistik Hall of Fame

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    No it wouldnt be a strong era without Fed.İt would be a big joke like WTA without Serena.
     
  48. pringles

    pringles Semi-Pro

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    Yet Courier who was an aggressive baseliner (and wasn't known for his great defence) managed to win 2 and barely missed out on a 3rd.

    In the 90's.
     
  49. fed_rulz

    fed_rulz Hall of Fame

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    no, I would gladly concede the debate in favor of Nadal (assuming their h2h is still in Nadal's favor -- Federer cannot run away from it, if it's the tiebreaker b/n the two).
     
  50. Towser83

    Towser83 Legend

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    thanks.I don't know what it is either. The more you learn about tennis the more you realise there are several players all great in their own way. i love what Federer has achieved and I don't need it to be proven he is the GOAT,I only want his achievements to be respected. A few people get so bent out of shape that doing this would rob their favourite of bragging rights so they mock instead. People do this about Sampras, Nadal, Borg and even Laver too. But on the other hand some people only look at what's being done today. A 6 hour final? yeah that muct mean tennis is getting better etc..
     

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