Are mid rackets disappearing?

Discussion in 'Racquets' started by mTm28, Aug 26, 2009.

  1. mTm28

    mTm28 Rookie

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    I came back from nationals last week and i noticed i was practically the only one using a midsize racket. I mean i think i saw one other person with a prestige mid but that was it. Why are they disappearing? I personally think they are amazing, i use a k six one tour and have no quibbles with it(Eventhough the other month i was considering changing but thats only cos i lost my equipment).
     
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  2. MichaelChang

    MichaelChang Hall of Fame

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    how many in the current ATP top 10 using Mid? The day Federer retires, there will be a funeral for the K90:)

    just kidding. but yes MIDs are disappearing.
     
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  3. skyzoo

    skyzoo Banned

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    To be honest at my sectional two weeks back, the kid that won it used an 03 tour which is a 95 sq in i believe. The rest of the kids there used 98 plus with the exception of a k90 who lost in the first round. I would say that your theory of mid size racquets dissapearing is correct. I switched from a 92 to a 100 in a matter of two years and it got me way farther than i thought it would. it shows in the top 7 in the men's game. Fed is the only midsize left, unless you count delpo's 95 sq in as a mid. The game is changing bro and the mid is soon to be a relic like 60 in wood racquets. That's my take on the it right now.
     
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  4. dadozen

    dadozen Hall of Fame

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    I don't think they'll disappear, since most of them play like classical racquets and there will always be people looking for this kind of racquet, but today's game ask for more forgiving racquets, qith aprox. 100 sq. in. headsizes to be able to generate huge amount of power.
     
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  5. joe sch

    joe sch Hall of Fame

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    Its not really the power, but the topspin ... there are soo few players today that hit flat blasts like Federer and Sampras. With eastern grips and more level swings, an 85..95 was plenty accurate. With the more extreme grips and topspin, the 100..110's really do offer an advantage with the larger sweetspots.
     
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  6. pmerk34

    pmerk34 Legend

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    Federer's forehand has a ton of spin. He doesn't hit flat.
     
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  7. jwbarrientos

    jwbarrientos Hall of Fame

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    I'd say ... seconds after!!!

    Not sure what you see in your clubs, but around the smaller frame I see is around 98, mostly 100 and bigger.
     
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  8. pmerk34

    pmerk34 Legend

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    There will always be recreational players who prefer a mid because they may have grown up using them. As far as the pro tour it looks like mid plus is the dominant choice.
     
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  9. dadozen

    dadozen Hall of Fame

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    So true. Even Sampras FH had top spin. They just use different grips than majority of players today, so smaller headsizes suit them better.
     
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  10. pmerk34

    pmerk34 Legend

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    I hope they meant flat as in trajectory not as in flat with no spin.
     
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  11. sboo

    sboo New User

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    I'm pretty sure this topic has been beaten to death in countless other threads.
     
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  12. pmerk34

    pmerk34 Legend

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    Well it apparently hasn't quite died :)
     
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  13. GinoGinelli

    GinoGinelli Rookie

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    ..........................
     
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  14. eagle

    eagle Hall of Fame

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    Hmmm... if they "die", then I'd hoard new Tour Diablo Mids since they are my holy grail.

    Maybe they'll be clearance priced so I can buy a number of them. :)

    r,
    eagle
     
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  15. pmerk34

    pmerk34 Legend

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    I find the frame way too much with 90 and 93 SQ mids.
     
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  16. Power Player

    Power Player G.O.A.T.

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    I am not sure if mids will go away forever because they provide such a wonderful feel and accuracy that goes away with bigger heads. But there is no doubt that it is easier to play with a 100+ if you use a western grip. I use a 100 now, and I like it a lot.
     
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  17. dadozen

    dadozen Hall of Fame

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    for example, my current racquets are the AG 4D 300 Tour, which I love, but I really wanted to have one AG100 just because it has classical characteristics that we all love. The only bad aspect is that it wouldn't fit my game as good as the 300T does.
     
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  18. anirut

    anirut Legend

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    Think I'd better stock up ...
     
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  19. sboo

    sboo New User

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    Yeah, hopefully everyone will see the light and toss their prestige mid's my way :razz:
     
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  20. mTm28

    mTm28 Rookie

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    Yh that is the worst part of mid rackets, but i find 100sq inc rackets clumsy and without feel.
     
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  21. Rabbit

    Rabbit G.O.A.T.

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    OP, hold up a mid-plus against a mid and you won't see that much difference. When I hold a Volkl C10 up against a Dunlop AG100, there's definetly not 8 square inches difference. The number assigned to a frame is more heritage than anything else.
    Next time you go to a proshop, hold a K90 up to a K95...there's just not that much difference.
     
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  22. eagle

    eagle Hall of Fame

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    Agree. The difference is more pronounced between an 85, 90 or 93 vs. a 110.

    r,
    eagle
     
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  23. pmerk34

    pmerk34 Legend

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    They may not look different to me they play different.
     
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  24. Rabbit

    Rabbit G.O.A.T.

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    Right, my only point is headsize and the number assigned to it usually have no relevance to the actual headsize. It's more a heritage number assigned by the manufacturer.

    Between the K90 and K95, there is very little head size difference....but...they have different weights, different stiffness, different layups, different balance points, and different string patterns. This is where the real differences are, not head size.
     
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  25. cellofaan

    cellofaan Semi-Pro

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    The difference between 90 and 98 is almost 10 percent, which seems a lot. On a circle, the radiuses between 90 sqinch and 98 squinch would be less then a quarter inch. So while the difference may be 8 squinch, the dimensions don't really look that different. Between 90 and 95 squinch, the difference is little over an eighth of an inch.
    Given the fact that a most rackets have slightly (or sometimes not so slightly) different headshapes, it can be very hard to guess the actual size.
    And the factdifferent brands seem to use different ways of determining headsizes doesn't help either.

    OT, I play with a mid-plus, 95 squinch, and I don't know anyone besides me that uses something smaller than a 100
     
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  26. JediMindTrick

    JediMindTrick Professional

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    It seems to me that you consider 95 sq in to be a mid size, which it isn't. But if 95 sq in is a mid size then there are 5 top 10 players who use a 95 sq in: Murray, Djokovic, Del Potro, Tsonga and Simon. I bet that half of the pro tour uses 95 sq in. So mid size racquets dominate the pro tour.
     
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  27. MichaelChang

    MichaelChang Hall of Fame

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    95 should not be considered a MID. Eg the PS6.0 has 85 and 95 and you not gonna say both are MIDs.

    the biggest MID would be a 93 (POG Mid).
     
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  28. pmerk34

    pmerk34 Legend

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    But I hit the frame more and sweetspot less with a Kblade Tour 93 than a MG Prestige Pro 98
     
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  29. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

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    That would be obvious to anyone other than those who just want to argue. A bigger head sweeps out a bigger volume as you swing, allowing for a margin of error somewhere in your swing. So, it is not just a matter of the little difference that you notice if you place the frames on top of each other. The difference gets amplified during a swing, and during bad ball bounces, wind, bad day, etc.
     
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  30. pmerk34

    pmerk34 Legend

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    No doubt. 95-100 for me. 90 and 93 too demanding.
     
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  31. GinoGinelli

    GinoGinelli Rookie

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  32. joe sch

    joe sch Hall of Fame

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    The topspin I was discussing is a combination of ball rotations and trajectory. Modern "Topspinners" usually have a more looping trajectory. Federer and Sampras have more rotations on thier hits than almost all other modern players but have flatter trajectories. This is the distinction that many modern players and fans do not seem to understand.
     
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  33. In D Zone

    In D Zone Hall of Fame

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    Aside from Fed... Safin and Hewitt are among others who plays with mid. I know the two don't count since both clost to retirement. Djoker moved from 93 KBT to 100.

    Once Fed retires, don't think there is any other pro's playing mid.

    On the recreational / club level - mids are still quite popular especially K90 TOur and RDS001 Mid.
     
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2009
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  34. pmerk34

    pmerk34 Legend

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    I think we all understand that but when someone says "hits flat" it can be interpreted as hitting with no spin as well a la Jimmy Connors.
     
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  35. Wizard of id

    Wizard of id Rookie

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    Federer effect :)

    Once Fed retires, fewer people will even try out K90s for the first time and they will (slowly) die out. Probably out of production faster than out of the hands of players (like POG 4stripes, Prostaffs, etc.)

    How many people play with anything smaller than the Prostaff 85?- for that matter, hardly any people play with a Prostaff 85.
     
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  36. Rabbit

    Rabbit G.O.A.T.

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    Just for giggles, how exactly does the difference get 'amplified'? You mean to tell me that the 1/8 inch difference in circumference which is mostly down toward the throat of the frame is going to make a significant difference? When swinging the frame, do the physical properties of the frame somehow get 'amplified'? Does the frame stretch more when swinging a bigger frame?

    And to pmerk, I can understand that. But, as another poster and I experienced, how do you explain that we both went out and framed more with a 300T at 98 sq in than with an AG100 at 90 sq in? Again, it's other differences in the frame that are more significant IMO.
     
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  37. SVP

    SVP Rookie

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    What happens when we leave the scene?

    As a general question, what is the cut-off age for those who grew up using the mids and those who didn't?
     
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  38. In D Zone

    In D Zone Hall of Fame

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    No doubt but it will take some time before you'll see the K90 disappear (but not fogotten_. As long as Fed's name is being circulated around the tennis world - the K90 interest will definitely be there.

    Sampras is tied to PS85... now PS88,
    Hewitt with Yonex SRD Tour 90.
    POG 93 also has good following.
    Head Prestige has a long history of great followers as well.

    It is also about marketing.... once the market is flooded with MID+ and OS frame. I am sure the tennis manufacturers will find some other ways - to sponsor $$ some aspiring pro to use a mid size frame (just to stand out which translates to $$$ ).
     
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  39. lenderbender

    lenderbender Rookie

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    thought djoker's blade was based on the radical mp hence about 95?
     
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  40. pmerk34

    pmerk34 Legend

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    I have no idea how you managed to frame more ball with a larger head size. Speaking for myself, and I would also assume for a large majority of those who tried and did not stay with a mid, I frame/mishit significantly more balls when the head size is below 95 sq
     
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2009
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  41. pmerk34

    pmerk34 Legend

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    No idea. I suppose if sales drop to the point where making mids are not profitable they will go the way of wooden frames.
     
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  42. Wizard of id

    Wizard of id Rookie

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    Certainly - any guesses as to which one?
    According to this thread Grigor Dimitrov uses a Head Prestige MG Mid 93. Maybe he can be persuaded to keep it :)
     
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  43. tarkowski

    tarkowski Professional

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    Here's an interesting article that has been posted a few times here at TW:

    http://www.racquetsportsindustry.com/articles/2006/01/the_inch_that_changed_tennis_f.html

    What's interesting to note is that the mids of today (K90, KPS88, etc) actually qualify as already having gained that 'extra inch'. (MP and OS would just give even more.)

    If you measure the cross-length of a K90 and KTour (Henin), they are just about equal. The KTour gets an increase in sq inch by having longer mains.

    I think the type of grip one uses on groundies may have some bearing on what racquet head size is preferred. I also think that it's the other attributes of the racquet (static weight, SW, balance) that will have a bigger impact on performance than head size.
     
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2009
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  44. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

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    That is a real shame.

    Small head also means lower power and smaller sweetzone, unless the weight compensates for it. My K88 has a bigger sweetzone that most racquets an oz lighter than it. But that may not be true for other mids.
     
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  45. pmerk34

    pmerk34 Legend

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    Isn't called "potential power" which you can only unlock with superior swingspeed?
     
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  46. pennc94

    pennc94 Semi-Pro

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    Mid are already gone. When I was growing up, a mid was 80-89 sq. in. So, the 90s that exist now are not mids. That probably explains why K90 qualify as already having gained that 'extra inch'.
     
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  47. tarkowski

    tarkowski Professional

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    Understood - you'll get no argument from me.

    I guess the question then becomes: Since that extra inch has been gained by 'todays' mids (mid-pluses) - will the K90, KPS88, Yonex, and other frames like them go the way of PS85? Or have we reached a minimum headsize that will always be with us - provided something else doesn't change, like the size of the court?
     
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  48. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

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    Other way around. Weight is intrinsic power which dominates at low speeds.
     
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  49. FedererClone

    FedererClone Semi-Pro

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    I think this is a great point; the weight, balance and feel through the swing determines just as much about a racquet as does its head size. I have Head TXE (81 sq in 80s frame), many Wilson 85 sq in, POG @ 93 and some 6.0 95's and 6.1 95s, and in every instance i still go back to either 85 or 81 sq in head. I agree anything else feels clumsy once you've found your stick and it happens to be a mid. 90 is as big as I have successfully gone. Even the POG feels clumsy... at the end of the day, if it ain't broke... I'd rather focus on the game with a stick I jive with than endless stick "updates" (even though I am guilty of uncovering classic frames to try out once in a while...)
     
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  50. pmerk34

    pmerk34 Legend

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    No I Thought you had to swing a heavy racquet fast to unlock the power. Light stiff racquets give you much easier power on half swings as well as slow swings and of course fast swings.


    But if you can swing a K90 very fast will it no produce a powerful heavier ball than swinging say a Wilson Kfour at the same rate?
     
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