Are Nadal and Djokovic the 2 biggest sore losers in tennis today?

Discussion in 'Pro Match Results and Discussion' started by Mike Sams, May 7, 2013.

  1. sbengte

    sbengte G.O.A.T.

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    No one accused Nadal of being a sore loser for his comment after MC. Every player is entitled to give any explanation they see fit for the loss. Of course, if you say you were "injured" or "not 100%" after every second loss, you lose credibility and people think you are just crying wolf and being a sore loser, as it happens in Nadal's case quite often.

    I thought Novak was very gracious at the net with Dimitrov and also in the presser. His yelling at the crowd (if what he said is actually as bad as some of the translations) comes across as classless (not that the crowd was any classier) but that doesn't make him a sore loser.
     
    Last edited: May 9, 2013
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  2. SLD76

    SLD76 Legend

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    Not to mention nadal glaring at his opponents as if to say "how dare you hit a winner against me!"

    And nadal left a sour taste in my mouth in that USO 2010 qf match against verdasco. Here he was trouncing the guy, in horrible conditions to boot where nando's attacking game was rendered non existant, and yet here is nadal grimacing when he missed a volley like it was a crucial match changing point, when in reality he was cruising along to a straight sets beatdown

    They call that grandstanding my friend.


    And then people wondered why nando picked djoker to win the uso, and then after everyone in spain had a hissy fit, he had go back and proclaim his loyalty to la nadal.
     
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  3. wy2sl0

    wy2sl0 Hall of Fame

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    Raonic, Del Potro and Tsonga are the most gracious in defeat. They all smile and say good luck at the net, and never make excuses for a loss.
     
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  4. sbengte

    sbengte G.O.A.T.

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    Of course they are all great guys, but everyone has their off days.

    Don't you remember how much flak Tsonga got at Miami last year vs Nadal when he said the line calling was biased (I actually thought he was right as I noticed it too, but he vented in the presser rather than complain through official channels). There were tons of threads here on how Tsonga is a sore loser.
     
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  5. Magnus

    Magnus Legend

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    That's what happens when you allow players like Nadal to get away with everything. He thinks he owns the sport, and his ego is huge. So when he loses, he's going to be a sore loser. With Nadal as an example, you can't expect Djokovic to be any better.
     
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  6. Magnus

    Magnus Legend

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    I have to ask you the same thing:

    What planet are you watching tennis from? Nadal with class? Great sportsmanship? Do you mean Rafael Nadal? The player who's broken every rule in the tennis book? The player who has zero respect for the crowd and his opponents? The player who made tennis such a dsgrace? That Nadal? Gotta lol here.
     
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  7. veroniquem

    veroniquem Bionic Poster

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    It's easy to lose one's cool in the heat of the moment. There is less excuse for smearing/attacking when cold headed. That tirade about Djoko from Roddick during a press conf at USO was funny but obnoxious. Much worse than swearing in a fit of anger imo. And he apologized afterwards. Appropriately so. There is temper outburst and then there is calculated malevolence. The 2nd one is definitely the less cool of the 2.
     
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  8. beast of mallorca

    beast of mallorca Legend

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    You forgot. The player who made Magnus cry and be miserable.That Nadal ?.....:twisted:
     
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  9. vernonbc

    vernonbc Hall of Fame

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    Agree with your first paragraph but the second - nuh uh. Facts aren't facts when it comes to Djokovic. A small but important point is that Novak was talking out of his backside. In his pre-tourney presser, these were his exact words:

    “It’s better every day. I’ve been doing a lot of work from the end of Monte‑Carlo tournament until now in order to get ready for Madrid. It’s a very big tournament that I always like to play in.”
    http://www.madrid-open.com/en/noticias-tenis-masculino/los-grandes-hablan-sobre-madrid/
     
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  10. Crisstti

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    Uhm, there's no way you can know if Nadal is being fake. You're just projecting.
     
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  11. TheTruth

    TheTruth G.O.A.T.

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    Nadal is not a sore loser. The reasons being given are pretty ridiculous. I'm guessing a lot of people don't read pre and post match interviews, or there would be a few more that could legitimately come up.
     
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  12. Crisstti

    Crisstti Legend

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    Nothing new there :)

    I just happened to read Fed's post match interview after the AO 2009 final, and wow, it was bad. So him and Tsonga with his ridiculous accusations would be the ones who are sore losers... certainly more than Rafa and Novak.
     
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  13. kragster

    kragster Hall of Fame

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    That AO 2009 interview was a disaster.

    http://www.tennis-x.com/story/2009-02-01/h.php

    It had all the classic lines from " I handed it to him" to " I wish I had his lefty serve advantage " and " The better player doesn't always win". Looking only at singular instances, nothing the other 3 have said compares to this.

    That being said, all these guys are human and have bad moments. Nadal pretty much said "Tsonga played at an unnatural level based on his ranking " after his AO 2008 Defeat. Even Nole, who is such a good loser usually, had the whole Madrid Fiasco with the swearing. And Fed is getting more gracious as he ages. History shows that the more successful you get, the harder it is to accept defeat.

    There is never an excuse to be a sore loser, but it is quite easy to see why people who win a lot are more likely to be sore losers than those who don't win as much.
     
    Last edited: May 15, 2013
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  14. mandy01

    mandy01 G.O.A.T.

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    Bad in what way? Everybody knew Federer handed the match over what with seven straight UFE's from being up 30-0 on his serve. His fifth set comment was a general observation and had NOTHING to do with that match in particular.

    Nevertheless, even assuming it was bad, it was a lot more real than the contrived BS I have seen coming out of Nadal and Djokovic and more importantly, their behaviour on court. Like I've said before, there is no use being a sugar-drenched candy in pressers if you're going to blatantly resort to gamesmanship whilst on court.
     
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  15. Crisstti

    Crisstti Legend

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    Fed's post match interview after the USO 2011 wasn't great either :)
    Not saying he's a bad person because of it, but he's more of a sore loser than the others.

    Novak acting like that during a match he's losing and then being so gracious after the match is, uhm, odd. Not sure what to think of it.

    I'm not sure I see why saying the another player played above his ranking is offensive though. Apparently Rafa might not have been too gracious in some post match interviews after losing to del Potro?, at least Towser seems to think so. To me he seems to do a pretty good analysis of his matches. If he thinks he was lucky he says it. He kept saying how lucky he had been against Ferrer the last time they played.
     
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  16. Crisstti

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    Bad in what way?. You can't be serious.
    Just read Kragster's comment.

    There's no "contrived bs" in Rafa's post match interviews. If you think there is, post an example.
     
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  17. mandy01

    mandy01 G.O.A.T.

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    Man, really? All you need to see is the manner in which he talks about his injuries to know it.
     
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  18. Crisstti

    Crisstti Legend

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    So you can't come up with any examples?. I thought so.
     
    Last edited: May 15, 2013
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  19. mandy01

    mandy01 G.O.A.T.

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    you want me to find interviews? Not happening. I gave you an example. What better example than his injuries, which he says he does not go on about only to later give regular medical bulletins?
     
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  20. Crisstti

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    You didn't. He doesn't talk about his injuries more than other players. Just look at Fed after that match against Berdych, or in IW this year. Or Novak before Montecarlo. Murray now.
    Rafa has always had more injuries than those other players though.
     
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  21. Crisstti

    Crisstti Legend

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    About this, he says that in the post match interview of a match he just lost in the fifth set, and you don't see the relation?.
     
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  22. mandy01

    mandy01 G.O.A.T.

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    LMAO. He talks about his injury more than any other player I have seen while pretending he doesn't want to. The last time Federer talked about an injury was in 2010. And atleast he wasn't contrived. He straight up came and said he was injured, had been since the start of the tournament.
     
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  23. mandy01

    mandy01 G.O.A.T.

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    No, not quite because I also remember him clearly saying plenty of times he got lucky in the fifth set of Wimbledon 07 and heaped praises on Nadal. So maybe he just believes it? He obviously let the fifth set go by losing his serve the way he did. It was self-destruction and I'm actually glad he took no pity on himself in naming it like it was because quite frankly, he pretty much admitted he lacked the mental toughness to see that match through, atleast keep it a close fifth, if nothing else. And he did win more points despite losing 6-2 in the fifth so...
     
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  24. zagor

    zagor Talk Tennis Guru

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    This question also depends on one's definition of a "sore loser", if you only acknowledge -in your face/blunt "I should have won", "It was on my racquet", "He was lucky" etc. then sure Fed fits the bill most out of the top 4 as he had the most of those moments, however I personally disagree with that stance.

    If we take Nadal for example and examine his slam losses since 2007:

    2007 AO - pain his whole body, even in his famous *****
    2007 Wimbledon - knees/schedule
    2007 USO - knees
    2008 AO - an exception
    2008 USO - so tired he couldn't move.
    2009 FO - knees
    2009 USO - stomach tear
    2010 AO - knees
    2011 AO - muscle tear
    2011 Wimbledon - foot
    2011 USO - shoulder
    2012 AO - an exception (though there was mention of an evil chair IIRC)
    2012 Wimbledon - knees.

    Now I'm sure for his fans none of those are really excuses taking away from his opponent's victory but reasons that attributed (in various degrees I guess) to his defeat and/or mistranslated due to his supposed;y poor English, just due to him supposedly being a hypochondriac etc. but for me associating such a huge number of your losses on the big stage in the last 5 years to one injury or another is simply a different manner of being a "sore loser".

    What people don't realize that the majority of players out there are mostly playing through one physical issue or another in almost every match/tourney (just look at Murray recently) but they don't make such a big hoopla out of it.
     
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  25. TheTruth

    TheTruth G.O.A.T.

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    I always read both pressers so I think a lot of these people are misinformed or getting their information straight from the booth. The best way is to get it from the horse's mouth. That would shut a lot of people up who come up with these innocuous remarks that have no basis in reality. But, then when they do get some truth, they just rationalize it away.
     
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  26. TheTruth

    TheTruth G.O.A.T.

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    I remember this. The Wimbledon one was just as bad. He's gotten better now that's he not a lock to win every tournament that he enters, but in his heyday he was unreadable, to me.
     
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  27. Hitman

    Hitman G.O.A.T.

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    To be fair Zagor, they all have their sore loser moments. But I guess that is what makes them such serial winners. Federer, Nadal, Djokovic have all had low moments in the way they have conducted themselves after having lost a match.

    They also displayed it on court when things haven't gone their way, such as Federer screaming at some fan to shut up, Djokovic hurling audible verbal abuse at fans, Nadal bumping shoulders with Rosol...and even in interviews, they say things that do make you roll your eyes at times, if you don't look at everything with fanboy or fangirl eyes all the time. None of them are perfect.
     
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  28. kragster

    kragster Hall of Fame

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    I don't recollect Nadal talking about his shoulder after the USO 2011 loss. Are you sure you aren't confusing it with Djoker's shoulder problems in 2011 due to overuse?

    Nonetheless you make a fair point. None of us know the exact extent/scope of Nadal's injuries but mentioning the same injury more than once leaves a bad taste.
     
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  29. Steve0904

    Steve0904 G.O.A.T.

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    One thing is for sure. Overall, all of them have conducted themselves pretty admirably throughout the course of their careers, and none of them will ever be as bad as McEnroe or Connors. In fact, when you really think about it I guess the bar was set pretty low wasn't it? That's not to say they haven't all conducted themselves admirably overall though.
     
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  30. kishnabe

    kishnabe G.O.A.T.

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    He did talk about his shoulder being hurt....he said due to the new service motion. He tried to go back to it in 2011 US Open.
     
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  31. Crisstti

    Crisstti Legend

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    I don't remember Nadal saying anything about his shoulder after USO 2011.

    No, the last time Federer talked about an injury was this year's IW.

    And Nadal ends up talking more about injuries than most other players because he is injured more than most other players.

    They are not injured quite as much, are they?.

    And with that list, are you thinking of what he has said or of what fans or other people have said?.
     
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  32. zagor

    zagor Talk Tennis Guru

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    Most of them arguably aren't but thing is, Nadal didn't miss large periods of tennis after every one of those injuries and I'd wager most players have one niggling physical issue or another almost all the time but they don't talk about it every time.

    Make no mistake, whether it's one intention or not talking about your injuries before or after the match is taking credit away from your opponent if he beats you or has beaten you.

    Well Nadal and/or his camp obviously, what his fans or other people (not from his camp) say is not his responsibility.

    I'm not saying it's a big deal or anything, when it comes to the current top4 we're mostly splitting hairs as far as I'm concerned, compared to stars in most other sports (and compared to some past tennis greats) they're very well behaved, easy going and sportmanlike most of the time.
     
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  33. zagor

    zagor Talk Tennis Guru

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    #83
  34. sillymonkey

    sillymonkey Hall of Fame

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    I don't think either of them are sore losers.
     
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  35. Crisstti

    Crisstti Legend

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    It's not arguable when it comes to the other top 4, at least.

    If missing long periods after an injury makes it alright talking about it, or it means it isn't just a niggling injury being used as an excuse, then I don't see why you still included the injuries that did make him lose long periods of the tour on your list.
    He didn't even mention the injury in the post match conference after Wimbledon 2012 - which made people here insist it meant he wasn't actually injured - he simply had to withdraw from event after event. And you're calling that being a sour loser?.

    I don't think it's splitting hairs at all actually. I'm sorry btw to bring up an old interview, but I hadn't seen it before and found it quite choking is just how much of a sour loser Fed is there. It's on a different level really. One thing is to mention something which, unless you think they're making it up, is after all a fact, and another to make interpretations about the game which completely take credit away from the other player. I've certainly never called Fed a sour loser for talking about his back during IW this year.

    Someone else translated it, I just reposted it.

    What is it about the "an exception" comments in your list though?.

    And AO 2012?. He was asked about the bandage and he said what had happened. It was before the tournament even started for him and he didn't mention it after the final I think.

    Or getting injured right there in the match, how is that being a sour loser?.
     
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  36. mandy01

    mandy01 G.O.A.T.

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    No, he didn't. He was asked one question about it. He said he didn't want to talk about it and left it at that. He didn't go on to cry a river on it after that even though everybody and their brother could see he was injured.

    So pathetic, man. Most players are injured at a number of intervals. I could swear Roger had been struggling with his back since the beginning of the year and is doing so even now because he has had either a brace or an undershirt for practically every tournament he's played. How many times has he talked about it? Look at how bad he looked against Malisse at Wimbledon last year and how he played it down. I'm sorry but Nadal takes tiredness/injury excuses to a whole new level.


    Soooooooo? Nadal has made it a NORM to blame every goddam loss of his on an injury to the point where he makes it look as though he cannot lose unless injured.


    Edit: And let me NOT get started on his on court antics.
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2013
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  37. TheTruth

    TheTruth G.O.A.T.

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    You must have forgotten, this year, when Federer and Nadal met in that one tourney, a few days before the match started there was a report about Fed having a back injury. It was the tournament before he took off for six weeks. I remember, because I thought it sounded fishy. So Fed does it too. I'll see if I can find the link.
     
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  38. TheTruth

    TheTruth G.O.A.T.

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    It isn't. Several years ago I got tired of this relentless "excuse making" and posted a litany of Fed's excuses. I wish I still had it because I could have added his more recent ones.
     
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  39. DragonBlaze

    DragonBlaze Hall of Fame

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    It's interesting reading the interview in the latter link.

    Now I understand this was a translation, but considering the source of it was a poster from vamosbrigade I expect the translator was a Rafa fan and would have done a good job.

    Somehow Rafa managed to make excuses about 3 different matches as well as implying he should and could have won 2 of them! :shock: How is "I should have won and the match depended on me at every moment" any worse than "I handed it to him" etc etc.

    Now I don't think there is anything wrong with what he said, but some people here are bashing Fed for far less, so really the only conclusion to be made is that ALL of them do this. So either you rip into all of them or not at all. I don't know why people get so fussed about it.
     
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  40. Bartelby

    Bartelby G.O.A.T.

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    They both have so little practice losing,
     
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  41. zagor

    zagor Talk Tennis Guru

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    Sure, among the top 4 he is the most injury prone.

    Maybe you're right, but I wanted to show a pattern, that almost every big loss from Nadal in the last 5 years had some injury/physical issue involved.

    That said yes, I obviously can't fault Nadal for talking about his injury when it forces him to miss a long period on tour.

    Well Fed didn't mention mono right away after 2008 AO loss to Novak but it still annoyed people (he even mentioned later that he would have lost the match regardless, still didn't do him any good).

    Nadal did mention later how the loss to Rosol was like a death foretold and that atleast in FO loss to Soderling he could compete but not against Rosol.

    That's OK, we all have our opinions.

    I find the top to be roughly equal overall as sportsmen taking everything into account, all of them with their flaws but pretty decent competitors overall.


    Don't see why would you be sorry about it, the interview is hardly that old (not to mention that you didn't bring it up first in this thread, it was Cucio if I'm not mistaken) and I have no problem admitting Fed acted like a sour pu$$ in that interview (it was Serena like), it did entertain me though, more than his 5th set performance did anyway.


    Sure, but what if his almost every big loss was supposedly due to a back injury?

    Well, exception as in there was no known injury related to the loss which is not the case for the majority of losses, I could have said "no injury" but as I said before I'd wager majority of players are almost constantly playing through one physical issue or another

    Well it's not about one specific example but the overall pattern, regarding 2012 AO loss, I do think Nadal was visibly injured (his movement was clearly hampered).
     
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  42. zagor

    zagor Talk Tennis Guru

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    Never said Fed (or any player for that matter) doesn't do it either but not nearly to the same degree.

    Yes I know you disagree, your opinion is the truth, the rest of us can't handle the truth bla bla bla...
     
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  43. zagor

    zagor Talk Tennis Guru

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    Heh, yeah it was a fun interview, it always entertains me when players really let go off all inhibitions and just plain speak their mind.

    Rafa's a champ so it's natural as far as I'm concerned that he thinks like that (especially in a one on one sport like tennis) but yeah none of these players should be put on a pedestal or something.
     
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  44. mandy01

    mandy01 G.O.A.T.

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    LOL! Zing! Unbelievable how these guys even thought of bringing up AO '09 after this little gem here :lol:
     
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  45. maruzo

    maruzo Semi-Pro

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    There's little point discussing who said what to whom here. That's just random chatting. Maybe done for the sake of strategy, just a little bit, i think. Trash talking is pretty common in sports. I do it all the time with my playing partners.

    But it's mostly friendly jab towards each other's playing style/ level/ etc.

    I won't waste too much breathe or thoughts on these conversations/ interviews.

    I'm more interested in how Fed or Novak or Rafa's gonna play in the upcoming matches, and who they'll be playing against.
     
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  46. kragster

    kragster Hall of Fame

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    I think to be honest Rafa did not handle his Novak beatings in 2011 well at all. You could see it in his eyes and his attitude. I think Nadal was somewhat incredulous that he was losing so often to the guy who he had such a dominant H2H against (until then). Although Nadal until then was sort of chummy with Novak, perhaps his respect for Novak's game was not as much as say his respect for Fed's game. Nadal almost certainly does not handle being a frontrunner well i.e. "being the guy expected to win". He loves going in with the attitude - " I am playing against a more talented player. I have to give it everything and if I win great, if not that's ok". That's why he loves playing Fed , not to mention Fed being older allows him to respect Fed more.

    Here is an excerpt from when Fed beatdown Nadal at IW 2012

    Q. How would you compare the wind today to other very windy conditions you've played in before? It looked very extreme out there.
    RAFAEL NADAL: It was tough tonight. I don't hate the wind, that's true. For me is nothing really. A lot of times worked well for me the wind, so the wind is not an excuse.
    The excuse, the real excuse was he played better than me. That's the best excuse that I can find, and that's it. The game is simple. I tried but wasn't enough, and that's all. No more things.




    He is probably in that place against Novak these days. He has repeatedly mentioned Novak being the best returner in the sport. I think Nadal looked much happier after his MC '13 loss, and now that Novak is firmly world no 1 and the man to beat, Nadal can take the losses better.
     
    Last edited: May 17, 2013
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  47. omniexist

    omniexist Semi-Pro

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    Right now, Gulbis is the biggest sore loser hands down.
     
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  48. DragonBlaze

    DragonBlaze Hall of Fame

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    Ofcourse what you say is completely true. And your last paragraph - that is pretty much like Federer these days where he can accept losses in much better fashion than he used to be able to when he was at the top.

    My point is that look at what one year of utter dominance (2010) did to Nadal, in that he started becoming quite a sore loser in 2011 whenever he lost Djoker, and then subsequently one year of utter dominance (2011) did to Djoker, where he isn't as gracious as he was before (still better than Fedal though).

    The more you stay at the top, the more your perspective changes. Simple as that. Now Federer had FOUR years of unprecedented dominance of the sport along with the media constantly proclaiming him as a possible GOAT (as early as 2005/6!), so no freaking kidding when he lost he acted like a baby! The expectations on him were humongous, far far more than what Djokoadal have experienced as of yet. That pressure is going to bring the ugly side out of you.

    What I disagree with some of the Nadal fans on here is that he is somehow an inherently better human being when the circumstances that each of these players have gone through have been entirely different. Make no mistake, Federer is defintely a sore loser, but so is Nadal, and Djoker is starting to become one. However it's only natural given the nature of sports, so why kick up such a fuss over nothing at all?
     
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  49. Crisstti

    Crisstti Legend

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    Fed definitely talked about it, and he didn't just say he didn't want to talk about it, he made it clear he had a problem. And I don't have a problem with him saying it either.

    Lol, what do you mean "so?". If A is injured once a year, and B is injured 5 times a year, and they both talk about it, then B is naturally going to talk more about it, and it means nothing more than that he simply has been injured more often.

    He talks about having had some kind of injury in two matches, not three, and about how he should have won one, IW, where he did not mention an injury.

    And that was in an interview from months after those matches.
     
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  50. Crisstti

    Crisstti Legend

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    Maybe the pattern is simply that he has been injured a lot in the last five years. He has also won tournaments while having some problem, like RG 2012. How much of a factor an injury is in the result, is usually pretty hard to tell.

    Well, some people get annoyed too easily :). I don't care about him mentioning mono, or whatever he had during Wimbledon 2010, or his back this year. Some people might think pros should somehow go out of their way to hide any injury problems from the public, but I don't think that makes much sense.

    Rafa said that about the loss to Rosol quite a while after the match.

    When we talk about being a "sore loser" we're talking about a reaction after all, aren't we?, a sour reaction. Which is why I think there needs to be some immediacy between the loss and the reaction.
    Having an injury is not a reaction to losing, so I don't see how is that being a sour loser. Talking about an injury hardly is either, especially if it's a while afterwards.
    That is why one talks about about a player being a sour loser because of stuff like Fed's presser after AO 2009, or USO 2011, even Rafa's in RG 2009. Or Rafa's less than enthusiastic handshakes with Novak. One could even call a reaction during a match being a sour loser, which is the only way in which Novak could be called that imo.

    It doesn't mean you cannot analyse a match and say what you think you did wrong, or that you cannot think that it's in the end up to you whether you win or lose (not much of a winner's mentality if you don't believe that). Which is why I don't have a problem with Fed saying in that AO interview that he wished he'd served better, or that he had many chances. Different from him saying the better player doesn't always win, or talking about Rafa being a lefty.

    But Fed hasn't had anywhere near as many issues with his back as Rafa has had with his knees. There is a pattern of him having serious issues with his knees since 2007.
     

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