Armstrong drops fight against doping charges

Discussion in 'Odds & Ends' started by Bartelby, Aug 23, 2012.

  1. Bartelby

    Bartelby G.O.A.T.

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    What does the phrase 'fight cancer' exactly mean, if anything?

    I'm not a very cheery fellow, admittedly, but things like bodily disease and decay aren't something that a bright, white smile can gainsay.

    I do realise that powerful people like to wave regally at their philanthropy to justify their corruption, but nothing justifies the unjustifiable.
     
  2. pushing_wins

    pushing_wins Hall of Fame

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    isnt that the reason for living in the first place?
     
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2012
  3. pushing_wins

    pushing_wins Hall of Fame

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    one secret vs inspiration and dreams of millions?
     
  4. adventure

    adventure Banned

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    There are many secrets, but they are not secret any longer. Instead, there is massive denial. And you can't be inspired by a fraud, only duped.

    Lance is a sociopathic con artist on a grand scale. But it just goes to show, the more often you repeat a lie, the more people there are who will believe it.
     
  5. golfer

    golfer New User

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    fight cancer means having brain surgery after months/ years of chemo didn't completely work. Being ill having fevers,rashes taking blood tests weekly. Cleaning ports having blood cloats, getting blood transfusions when you have half the blood of a normal person. Having iv feed you cause of the sores in your throat. Receiving a stem cell transplant is so painful. Then, the extreme pain from bones being forced to produce cells. Having to drink that crap for ct scans every few months.
     
  6. Sentinel

    Sentinel Bionic Poster

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    is that you, e e cummings ?

    :D
     
  7. Bartelby

    Bartelby G.O.A.T.

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    I know what it means to fight cancer as an individual.

    My point was only made with reference to the idea that something as multifarious as cancer is something that is defeatable.

    I don't believe in such pervasive technological optimism.



     
  8. Bartelby

    Bartelby G.O.A.T.

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    Cummings ist der Dichter.
     
  9. anhuynh16

    anhuynh16 Hall of Fame

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    From Twitter(Darren Rovell):

    "BREAKING: Nike has terminated the contract of Lance Armstrong. More to come on http://ESPN.com . "
     
  10. Bartelby

    Bartelby G.O.A.T.

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    ... and he's stepping down as chairman of his charity.
     
  11. vive le beau jeu !

    vive le beau jeu ! G.O.A.T.

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    Nike drops Lance Armstrong

    from: http://espn.go.com/olympics/cycling/story/_/id/8514766/nike-terminates-contract-lance-armstrong

    which one will be the next ?... place your bets ! ;)

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  12. tennismonkey

    tennismonkey Semi-Pro

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    this is only half correct. livestrong has raised about half a billion dollars = true. but it's not entirely sure where and what this money goes to. a portion undoubtedly goes to enrich a guy who may have committed fraud/cheated to win seven tour de frances. so yes he's a cancer survivor but he also may have cheated and now collects profits from an organization that may not really do anything to fight cancer. there's this organization called the american cancer society that actually fights cancer. livestrong spends an awful lot of money promoting itself and raising funds. fighting cancer? not so much.
     
  13. maleyoyo

    maleyoyo Rookie

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    This is far from over. Without Lance’s hero status and his legal team breathing down on their necks, more people would be willing to talk about a lot of things that they couldn’t before.
     
  14. rufus_smith

    rufus_smith Professional

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    Livestrong seems quite reputable to me. They have audited published financial statements posted on the web for anyone to review. They report a low 19% administrative cost.
    http://www.livestrong.org/Who-We-Are/Our-Strength/Financial-Information

    "We have provided financial resources to more than 550 organizations that conduct cancer survivorship research or offer services to people affected by cancer, and 81 cents of every dollar raised has gone directly to support our programs and services for survivors."


    BTW, I'm a big supporter of the American Cancer Scoiety and also the NCI and have worked with them but I am not affilated with Livestrong at all.


    As as Armstrong is concerned, I am sure he doped but I am also pretty sure that at least half the field in the Tour de France was also doping. With all the sponsorship money, it would be pointless for a top biker to ride that race without doping. Ask Greg Lemond who tried to race dope-free and was overwhelmed by many doped-up riders that he easily outraced in the past.

    Whoever the officials eventually declare as the new winners of those past races instead of Armstrong had probably doped too. Its a mess.
     
  15. r2473

    r2473 Legend

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    Stop confusing this issue with facts please.

    This is a "rant only" zone :)

    Now where were we? Ah yes, Lance is the devil and eats little baby's toes for breakfast.................
     
  16. tennismonkey

    tennismonkey Semi-Pro

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    livestrong SPENDS 45 cents for promotion and fund raising costs for every $1 it brings in. and the money livestrong brings in doesn't go to finding a cure for cancer or research.
     
  17. fundrazer

    fundrazer Hall of Fame

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    Yeah, some of this stuff about Livestrong I've pointed out earlier in the thread. There's some really wierd/fishy information I've read about where the money goes...But the reality is this, they don't help fund cancer research. Livestrong is more of a "cancer awareness" group now than anything else, other than Lance's ATM that is.
     
  18. FloridaAG

    FloridaAG Professional

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    I don't think they are going to name new winners of any of the races
     
  19. r2473

    r2473 Legend

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    I'm not sure what you posted, but I found this article:

    http://www.outsideonline.com/outdoo...strong/Its-Not-About-the-Lab-Rats.html?page=1

    They had me fooled.
     
  20. pushing_wins

    pushing_wins Hall of Fame

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    how are you doing?
     
  21. Mustard

    Mustard Talk Tennis Guru

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    Fine. You?
     
  22. pushing_wins

    pushing_wins Hall of Fame

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    good.

    i would appreciate your insights and comments on the lastest develpments. thanks.
     
  23. Mustard

    Mustard Talk Tennis Guru

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    Nike's image has obviously taken a hit in the last week when they said that they would be sticking with Armstrong, so now they've pulled the plug. Looks like Livestrong was being similarly hit by Armstrong being chairman.
     
  24. fundrazer

    fundrazer Hall of Fame

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    Trek, the bicycle manufacturer, has also just announced that they are dropping Lance.
     
  25. JoelDali

    JoelDali G.O.A.T.

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    I still wear my yellow bracelet with dignity.

    I stand by Lance. The NFL and MLB has approved roids for years.
     
  26. FastFreddy

    FastFreddy Semi-Pro

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    dropped


    Nike
    • Trek Bicycles
    • Giro (bike helmets)
    • FRS (energy products)
    • Honey Stinger (energy products)
    • 24 Hour Fitness
    • Anheuser-Busch (Michelob Ultra)
    • RadioShack

    The lone holdout is Oakley, which previously said they would wait for the final UCI ruling, now says they are "reviewing the extensive report from the USADA, as well as our relationship with Lance."
     
  27. Fearsome Forehand

    Fearsome Forehand Professional

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    They should have two races; the Tour de France and the Tour de Dope. In the Tour de Dope, you can do whatever the hell you want. :)

    I was neutral initially because the evidence was hidden, but when long time sponsors start baling out, you have to conclude there is something very wrong.

    Interesting that Vick was the only other athlete Nike baled on. Yet, they stood by freaky, creepy, lying Tiger.
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2012
  28. pushing_wins

    pushing_wins Hall of Fame

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    what makes lance more freaky and creepy than tiger? lance is quite the womanizer himself.
     
  29. Spin Doctor

    Spin Doctor Professional

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    Has there ever been discussion (here, or elsewhere in the media) about whether Lance's cancer could have been brought on by using PEDs? I know that young men can get testicular cancer but it was also accompanied by large tumors in his lungs. Not sure if that is normal or whether PEDs could actually cause testicular cancer or lung tumors.

    (I admit I know very little about the disease. Just wondering.)
     
  30. MAXXply

    MAXXply Hall of Fame

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    I haven't heard of Lance's doping scandal being mentioned in the same breath/news coverage as those four above, because Lance's scandal is way bigger in an international context than those guys. NBA and MLB controversies are American and parochial and I've not read of those scandals to the same extent as the coverage given to international pro cycling's and Armstrong's dramas. Who the heck is Michael Vick anyway?

    However, I did hear one local commentator mention the Chicago WhiteSox/Shoeless Joe Jackson in the same breath as Armstrong.
     
  31. Nadalgaenger

    Nadalgaenger Professional

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    Exactly. Despite what he'd have us believe, he has no monopoly on cancer awareness. And what's more my understanding is that Livestrong is all about dealing with the emotional aspect of cancer rather than actually devoting resources towards finding a cure.
     
  32. Nadalgaenger

    Nadalgaenger Professional

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    The problem isn't so much that he doped. I detest rather the way Lance attacked others who tried to come forward with the truth. He managed to convince all of us that he was an exception to the rule, a great human story and not a fraud.

    Before, he made naive believers out of all of us. Now we are all hardened cynics.
     
  33. Nadalgaenger

    Nadalgaenger Professional

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    Excellent, thoughtful post! I agree in every point. I think Lance has to realize at some point that the only way he will save himself from being an absolute pariah in American society is to come forward with a tearful apology to all of us.

    I can hardly imagine an egomaniac like Lance having the mettle to do that.
     
  34. jamesblakefan#1

    jamesblakefan#1 G.O.A.T.

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    Lance should've gotten more crap at the time he was winning the TDFs. Instead he got little to no cynicism ab how clean he truly was in a sport where everyone BUT him was doping. Yet we're supposed to believe that he's the clean miracle boy, while guys like Bonds, McGwire, ARod, etc are evil for doping?

    Lance deserves everything he's getting right now, yes he beat cancer which is great, but that doesn't change that he's been an arrogant, egomaniacal bully with this whole doping thing.
     
  35. FloridaAG

    FloridaAG Professional

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    There were plenty of people who suspected him and felt there was no way he was clean. Read some of the cycling news sites - he used the carrot and stick method to generate wide spread media support and the fanboys and girls refused to ever doubt him and always bougt into his "most tested athlete" garbage. I always knew he was dirty. Which as others have said, would not have been such a big deal as the others were all also dirty if he was not so sanctimoneous and mean spirited as to those that questioned him. Just ask the Andreus
     
  36. jamesblakefan#1

    jamesblakefan#1 G.O.A.T.

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    Yeah, I know French media was hot on his trails all these years. But the US media tried to spin that into the French being po'ed about an American winning their event and fed into Lance's BS. Where there's so much smoke, there's gotta be fire, I always thought. We threw Landis overboard so quickly yet even today there's still folks that'll defend Lance. Part of that is the cancer and stuff he's done there, but that shouldn't excuse the years of cheating and lying and bullying by LA.
     
  37. adventure

    adventure Banned

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    I hope trek picks up the lemond line again. Trek dropped greg lemond's line of bicycles when greg began speaking out about lance's doping.

    That's the type of "terrorism" his critics speak of: lance tries to sue you and starve you into submission when you discuss facts.
     
  38. pushing_wins

    pushing_wins Hall of Fame

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    being cheated shouldnt change you
     
  39. ninman

    ninman Hall of Fame

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    Ok, Lance choosing not to defend himself is not an admission of guilt. However, it makes it a lot easier for the prosecution to find him guilty because there will be no one in court representing him.

    It's really sad to see a great man fall like this. He was an idol for millions, and now it's all left in ruins. Sad, really sad.

    I just hope something positive comes out of this. Like a culture of clean riding, and not this "anything to win" attitude.
     
  40. Bartelby

    Bartelby G.O.A.T.

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    Its understandable to refuse to confess when there's a lot at stake, but he should have known he'd lose everything.

    At least an apology would have salvaged something unless he intends to hide from his problems for the rest of his life.
     
  41. fundrazer

    fundrazer Hall of Fame

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    UCI is set to make an announcement on Monday. Should be interesting...

    On another note, longtime cycling team sponsor, Rabobank, has decided it no longer wishes to be associated with the sport. Apparently, they do not feel the UCI has done an effective job in cleaning up the sport. They currently have both a men's and women's road cycling team. The good news is that they will still honor the rider contracts.
     
  42. TennisLovaLova

    TennisLovaLova Hall of Fame

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    His image is (was) totally broken.
    He should just admit.

    BUT
    What if he's really clean and all this is some kind of weird vendetta against him? (as there is NO real valid proof of him using epo)
     
  43. r2473

    r2473 Legend

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    What if he really used epo AND this is all some kind of weird vendetta against him?
     
  44. chrischris

    chrischris Hall of Fame

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    These Texans....
     
  45. maleyoyo

    maleyoyo Rookie

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    What if Livestrong donors sue to ask for their money back because they were fooled? Could they get their money back?
     
  46. fundrazer

    fundrazer Hall of Fame

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    Some of them already are. I believe I saw the articles linked on another forum, but there's some shady/scammy tactics from Lance and Livestrong.

    http://ireport.cnn.com/docs/DOC-860283

    In one instance Lance had put together a charity ride. 35K to go on a bike ride with Lance, but apparently 10K went straight to Lance's pocket. Participants were given a tax receipt for only 25k. They also weren't really riding "with" Lance, as he went his own pace and left everybody else behind him.
     
  47. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

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    I don't think they can get their money back if the money was not embezzled by Armstrong but went to charitable work. After all, they contributed to the charity, not to him.

    Moreover, a gift cannot be requested back, according to law.
     
  48. adventure

    adventure Banned

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    This is all just semantics, technicalities and split hairs. You can try to put up as many smoke screens as you like, but even the most simple minded person knows lance doped for every one of his tour victories, and well before that as well.

    I'm not sad for lance at all. He was never a "great man." He cheated obsessively and threatened anyone who dared speak the truth. That's a scumbag, not a "great man."

     
  49. pushing_wins

    pushing_wins Hall of Fame

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    Can my ex-fiance sue me for gifts he bought me when we were together?

    Generally a gift is a gift, but some states have bizarre laws. You should check on South Carolina law, or of another state, if you were living in another state at the time. He might argue that he was defrauded into paying the bills. Usually the engagement ring is returned, but you have already done that.

    --------------------------

    apparently, you can get your ring back always. and if you can prove you were defrauded, you can recover other "gifts".
     
  50. Bartelby

    Bartelby G.O.A.T.

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    The UCI just backed USADA and stripped Armstrong of the titles and banned him for life.
     

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