Armstrong drops fight against doping charges

Discussion in 'Odds & Ends' started by Bartelby, Aug 23, 2012.

  1. realplayer

    realplayer Semi-Pro

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    Well at least he didn't betray anyone(It is good he didn't want to talk about Ferrari) unlike his former teammates who earned a lot of money thanks to him and then betrayed him

    In the end everybody who wanted to win used dope and we can safely assume that 90 percent of the riders used doping so in my opinion he was still the strongest.

    Let's not forget he did a lot of good work for cancer and if he is being punished then punish the other riders like Ullrich or Riiss(who admitted dope and still can keep his TDF victory) in the same way.
     
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2013
  2. maggmaster

    maggmaster Hall of Fame

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    I am fully with everyone who is appalled by the he treated others who accused him. I just think we have to be aware that sport is always going to take advantage of any edge they can find. We should be monitoring them and making sure that they do it safely. EPO can safely be used to raise the hematocrit up to a certain point, beyond that point you raise the risk of stroke and heart issues. We should check for unsafe levels not for the drug itself. That increase in HCT level can also be gained through altitude training or the use of an atmosphere chamber, both of which are totally legal.
     
  3. volleygirl

    volleygirl Semi-Pro

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    Ouch!!!!!!
     
  4. r2473

    r2473 Legend

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    Sure, it was sort of a bait post.

    I'd pull the "hypocrite card" with respect to the public reaction to Armstrong (Bonds, Clemens, etc). Meaning, two things. First, the crowds were cheering and the sport was making tons of money off these guys when they were doing their thing. Now, the very same public and guys in the sport are acting as if they are "shocked" that such a thing was happening.

    Second, I bet that everyone that is now demonizing Armstrong (Bonds, Clemens, etc) still has "closet roid hero's". Olympics, boxing, tennis, NFL, etc. It's just so simplistic to demonize the "poster boys" and give everyone else a free pass.

    As for what Lance accomplished, I certainly wouldn't want to pit my resume against his. Is he perfect.......No. Is he an A-hole........absolutely. But that doesn't negate his accomplishments. You may not like him as a man. I don't either (and never have). But his accomplishments still stand.

    Politics is a dirty business.......(What's that saying about knowing how politics and sausages are made?).
     
  5. rainingaces

    rainingaces Legend

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    I thought this was a Gerry Armstrong caught smoking dope in the chair again thingy before Ilooked.
     
  6. Underhand

    Underhand Legend

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    I couldn't wait to see Phelps' story in a couple of years.
     
  7. jonnythan

    jonnythan Professional

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    Whether Phelps juiced hardly matters. If he juiced, you know everyone else in the pool juiced. PEDs or not, dominating every aspect of a sport so thoroughly is unbelievable. Would be another matter if Phelps spent years suing and shaming and threatening people. Doesn't look like he's done that.
     
  8. NadalAgassi

    NadalAgassi Guest

    Even if Phelps is doped to the eyeballs (and he probably is) he is still 10 times the athlete and human being Armstrong ever was.
     
  9. rk_sports

    rk_sports Hall of Fame

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  10. adventure

    adventure Banned

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    I didn't want to be too hard on you as you're obviously a psychological and emotional wreck. People like yourself genuinely need help in the same way that people need to be rescued and de-programmed from cults.

    Having said that, I still want to kick both you and lance in the nut/s for your blatant, idiotic stupidity.

    First of all, the reason lance became ill was because he was abusing PED's. FACT. Do you understand this point? That's why Serena W almost died as well. PED abuse. That's why people's heads grow. That's why clemens can post an era below 2, after the age of 40. Impossible without PED's.

    Second, there are MILLIONS of courageous heroic individuals out there who battle disease and illness everyday. Lance is NOT heroic for trying to live. LA is NOT heroic for coming back to the tour and supposedly winning. Those "victories" are purely the result of the superior chemical cocktails.

    Third, lance has NO RESUME WHATSOEVER. He has been stripped of all tdf titles. There are no winners in those years he competed and supposedly won. Do you understand this point? I repeat, he has ZERO tour titles. And no one else does either in those years.

    Fourth, his "resume" also includes endless blackmailing, threats, intimidation and endless lies. So, yes, I am EXTREMELY proud of the fact that my "resume" does not include these feats.

    As I said before, what's left of your shriveled up, putrified ego is now completely attached to lance and to this pseudo-intellectual, fraudulent rationalization that lance is somehow a "hero."

    As I said before, I feel sorry for you and I realize that your low self esteem is what's responsible for your lance worship. So pointing out your stupidity is likely going to reduce your self esteem even further, but it's the only hope you've got.

    I really do hope you can pull your head out of your a-- someday, even if today is not that day.


     
  11. adventure

    adventure Banned

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    It's not the doping that's the issue. It's the media-induced hero worship of a pothead who swims faster in a speedo while hopped up on PED's that's an issue.

    These people aren't villains or heroes. We need to look in the mirror at our own stupidity for worshiping these goofs in the first place.
     
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2013
  12. maleyoyo

    maleyoyo Rookie

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    That’s a bit harsh but it’s the crux of the issue. Stripping the hero, celeb status of these “entertainers”, “sport figures” will help us see things more clearly.
    And one’s view on PED also has a lot to do with the context of the issue being discussed.
     
  13. adventure

    adventure Banned

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    "to the cynics and skeptics, I feel sorry for you, I'm sorry you can't dream big, I'm sorry you don't believe in miracles..."

    Do you believe the ball on this guy?!? I want to kick him in the testicle so bad.
     
  14. rainingaces

    rainingaces Legend

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    So phelps now is it, where did that come from?

    Who will it be next week? Bolt, messi, tyson?
     
  15. adventure

    adventure Banned

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    Just about EVERY elite athlete in t/f, cycling, swimming, baseball, football, mma, and a majority in basketball, are using PED's.

    As I have tried pointing out several times, as long as you stop thinking of these people as heroes, it's not a problem.

    They are professional competitors (even the olympians) with a short window to earn a huge amount of money. They're going to cheat. Their feats aren't possible without PED's.
     
  16. adventure

    adventure Banned

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    What's harsh about it? It's the TRUTH. Phelps is a pothead and PED user who's faster in a swimming pool in a speedo than anyone else as a result.
     
  17. maleyoyo

    maleyoyo Rookie

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    I’m curious about what you said about PED caused Lance’s cancer and Serena’s episode with PED. Can you cite your sources on that?
     
  18. adventure

    adventure Banned

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    There's a mountain of information out there about PED's.

    I cited a ton of sources about lance doping, intimidating and generally acting like a white trash thug. I also posted sources about clean cyclists.

    The problem is, evidence is like water to a duck. For most people it just rolls right off, leaving previous prejudices and brainwashing intact.

    That's why I've said repeatedly in my last several posts, the problem is not with the athletes, it's with us. It's our constant buying into these idiotic stories about sports heroes:

    -the great white hope

    -the evil black female

    and so on.

    It's our gullibility and inability to process actual evidence which is the real problem.

    So go ahead and do your research. My bet is, regardless of evidence, there is a 99% chance you will believe what you did previously regardless of what you find.
     
  19. adventure

    adventure Banned

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    Not even sure why I bother to reply to head up a-- posters like yourself.
     
  20. adventure

    adventure Banned

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    Un-f---ing believable. It's you again. Kick yourself in the nuts for me. Thanks.
     
  21. volleygirl

    volleygirl Semi-Pro

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    With this post you knocked it out of the park like a PED using Baroid Bonds putting one in the bay.
     
  22. maleyoyo

    maleyoyo Rookie

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    Dude, it’s Friday. Why are you so angry?
    You throw insults, threaten, and try to put down people who might have different view points.
    Geeze, you show the same behaviors just like the very same guy you despise…Lance Amstrong.
     
  23. r2473

    r2473 Legend

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    I'm going to kill myself tonight. Thanks a lot.
     
  24. maggmaster

    maggmaster Hall of Fame

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    What evidence do you have that PEDs cause cancer of any kind?
     
  25. JoelDali

    JoelDali G.O.A.T.

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    Lance was framed.

    Oprah lied.
     
  26. dennis10is

    dennis10is Banned

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    Agreed. Lance is a true American Hero. He won, he made tons of money. The lazy, entitled masses are out to get him.
     
  27. NonP

    NonP Professional

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    True, but it's really not about Armstrong or Phelps. Nor is it about the supposed evils of doping, but rather the culture endemic to the system in which it is regulated. It's easy for hormonally challenged teenagers to make themselves feel better with infantile smack talk about a good punching bag like Armstrong, while hardly anyone talks about what drove these athletes to lie in the first place. Instead we waste our time debating whether they juiced or not, all the while raising the irrelevant and frankly idiotic question about how Armstrong could buy himself a better support cast than others, as if rich athletes somehow don't enjoy the advantage already. And of course there's the unavoidable hero worship.

    That said, now that he's finally admitted what many of us suspected for years Armstrong needs to do more than issue a carefully orchestrated mea culpa. His use of the passive voice in the Oprah interview was certainly not the way to go about it.
     
  28. Legend of Borg

    Legend of Borg Legend

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    Armstrong sounds like a textbook sociopath judging by his admission to Oprah.

    Just casually mentions he doped for all those years and then says he wants to get involved in professional sport sometimes in the future.
     
  29. Leelord337

    Leelord337 Hall of Fame

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    To me Lance will always be the greatest (because we ALL know that all of the top riders were doping!!!). Its too bad it has to be in the same light as how Pete Rose was the greatest all time in regard to batting avg..Or even Barry Bonds w/the all time home run #'s.
     
  30. realplayer

    realplayer Semi-Pro

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    If we take the TDF of 1999 then the first rider who has not been connected to dope is the number 23.
    He is not more guilty than anyone else and at least he did something useful with the money.
    In the interview he didn't bring anyone else down like other riders did.
    That he called Betsy Andreu a ***** seems not far from the truth after seeing her on tv.
    She seems pretty obsessed, hysterical and forced her husband to betray. But traitors seem to be the heroes these days.
    Judging him because he used dope like anyone else is so hypocrite.
     
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2013
  31. JoelDali

    JoelDali G.O.A.T.

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    So 95% of of all the top cyclists doped but its only wrong because Lance won.

    Trololol.
     
  32. Bartelby

    Bartelby G.O.A.T.

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    Lance made a fortune out of cheating - Tour de Wall Street is next?
     
  33. realplayer

    realplayer Semi-Pro

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    Well, they all cheated and as one of the riders of Rabobank said: Doping was a way of life, or you cheated or you better find another job. Without dope you just won't win no matter how much talent you have.
    The fact that almost everyone doped is proof under how much pressure the riders were. Easy to judge them without having been in the situation.
     
  34. volleygirl

    volleygirl Semi-Pro

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    HAHA Best ever? Even though he even admitted he had to cheat to even win one? What a joke. For you to even think Pete Rose has the highest batting avg ever shows you dont know that much about baseball.
     
  35. r2473

    r2473 Legend

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    I wish Adventure would address this. I've never read anything that supports this view. There are people who say that PED use and testicular cancer could be linked, but I've never read anything as clear cut as Adventure's statement.

    http://commonhealth.wbur.org/2013/01/doping-cancer

    PS: I'm writing this from the grave as I killed myself yesterday because Adventure is such a meanie bo beanie.
     
  36. adventure

    adventure Banned

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    This thread should be admitted as a case study in any intro psych, cognitive psych, or social psych as a prime example of cognitive dissonance. There is already a small mountain of evidence refuting every point raised by his defenders/worshipers, and yet these same 'defenses' are propped up time and time again. Evidence is clearly not a currency with any value to his worshipers, to the lancetards.

    And I know why. Lance is the great white hope. In a sports landscape largely devoid of superstar white athletes, lance stands out as a beacon on a hill. Ever heard of brian scalabrine? No, you have not. Believe it or not, scalabrine is worshiped as the GOAT (greatest of all time) on basketball forums. His handle is 'white mamba,' aka the white version of Kobe Bryant.

    No, sports fans aren't that dumb. They all know michael jordan is the gold standard, while brian scalabrine was a journeyman scrub who barely averaged 3 pts a game throughout his career.

    But he's 'white.' The 'white mamba.' A legend. That's how rare elite white athletes are these days. This is lance's appeal. He's the great white hope. He's not french, either. Nor does he a have french sounding name. He's a texan. A good ol' american white boy.

    This is what his defenders latch onto. And this is why they will never let go.

    But you can let go. Actually lance is a fraud, and a phantom. But he's 'white.' And an 'American.' Since canada, mexico, and all of latin america don't count as america.

    Lance, the great white hope. The one balled wonder. The greatest of all time. White mamba, indeed.
     
  37. r2473

    r2473 Legend

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    So...........where is that evidence you promised linking PED's to testicular cancer.

    And specifically, showing how PED's caused the cancer in Armstrong?

    You said there is a mountain of evidence out there. I'd settle for a molehill. Or even one piece of good rumor. Basically anything at this point would be better than another diatribe from you.

    (what does that great white hope rant even mean in the context of this thread? Nobody is saying Armstrong didn't use PED's and pretty much everyone has know he has for years. And by the way, aren't all cyclists white? I'm looking for the great black or asian hope in cycling myself. You're a f'in moron).
     
  38. FastFreddy

    FastFreddy Semi-Pro

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    Roids

    I talked to my friend who is a doctor and is on roids 6'3 275 ripped. He told me that the roids do not give u the cancer but gives u the cancer at a younger age. I love the fact that Lance lied to the big O telling her that he stopped dpoing in 2005. The Docs looked at his blood in the 2009 race and he used his own blood twice what a dope!!
     
  39. maggmaster

    maggmaster Hall of Fame

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    There have been no long term studies done on common anabolics that prove any link to cancer. Really there have been no long term studies done at all. The closest is an AIDS research study that deals with long term use of Anavar to prevent muscle wasting and it had no deleterious effects beyond elevated liver enzyme levels. I have no interest in Lance Armstrong as the "Great White Hope" or whatever it is you are rambling about. I despise pseudo science, I particularly despise when doctors say things like the post above. Most doctors have one maybe two semesters of pharmacology with no focus on hormones or steroids. The statement that your doctor friend made is unsupportable tripe. I am not an apologist for steroids, I do not think they are the next great thing. I do know that they have been abused a lot by a lot of different groups and the results can be pretty terrifying if you are not careful. That being said there are safe ways to use steroids, just like any drug that has a medicinal value. Magic Johnson would not be alive today without Anavar and yet the demonization of steroids in general is why Anavar is not available to more HIV positive people for far less money. It is out of patent, someone can make a generic, but no one wants the bother of adding another scheduled drug to their catalog.
     
  40. Bartelby

    Bartelby G.O.A.T.

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    It wouldn't matter a jot if everyone else doped, as the fact is that Armstrong doped and he was at the head of a team that benefited the most from doping and he personally made several hundred million dollars.

    Armstrong was the leader of the most outrageous fraud in sporting history and lives in splendid luxury as a result of his cheating.
     
  41. maggmaster

    maggmaster Hall of Fame

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    I agree with you there. If rules are in place they should be followed, others breaking the rules is no excuse for breaking them yourself. My point is more general than that, sorry if it got confused in my writing. My point is that we should look at our rules.
     
  42. Bartelby

    Bartelby G.O.A.T.

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    Whatever caused Armstrong is unknown, but the fact is that there is a rather strong prejudice to associate an illness with some moral culpability.

    The fact is unfortunately that you can live a very long and happy life and still lie, cheat and steal.
     
  43. Thud and blunder

    Thud and blunder Semi-Pro

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    I no longer believe a word Lance Armstrong says...in fact, I'm beginning to doubt he ever landed on the moon at all.
     
  44. Dedans Penthouse

    Dedans Penthouse Hall of Fame

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    ^^^ LMFAO. You are one sad, hateful psycopath, and a racist trolling one at that, pal. But ok, I'll play:

    As far as I'm concerned, Lance Armstrong is a cheating, vengeful piece of garbage. But as for the (imho) misguided ones here defending him, where the hell do you get off making racist assumptions about their motives you racist piece of shlt?

    Btw, are you an American "white boy" you racist?

    If not, that's cool. What are you then, mr. racist?

    Stay classy, racist.
     
  45. Overdrive

    Overdrive Legend

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    There's no point in wasting time with these people. I think it's best to just put him on your ignore list. :roll:
     
  46. Bartelby

    Bartelby G.O.A.T.

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    Orwell pointed out the connection between sport and politics, more specifically nationalism, a long time ago.
     
  47. vive le beau jeu !

    vive le beau jeu ! G.O.A.T.

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  48. Bartelby

    Bartelby G.O.A.T.

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    Wiggins will probably be riding for Froome in this year's Tour de France. Now there's a real champion, Lance.
     
  49. Bobby Jr

    Bobby Jr Legend

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    And in more Armstrong-related news... The International Cycling Union now confirms what anyone with a brain already knew - that they are inept, completely incapable of managing their own sport and have been for over 14 years and probably corrupt also.

    Armstrong tested positive not once but four times in 1999 and they let it slide.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cycling/22193315
     
  50. hollywood9826

    hollywood9826 Semi-Pro

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    Of course they let it slide.

    Its called profit. What Lance was doing actually had people caring about cycling in America for like 3 weeks a year instead of 2. Nike made money off of him, the cancer poeple made money off of him. Oakley etc...

    Heck the only people that were not making money off of him was the USPS. But they cant make money off anyone or anything for various reasons.

    Everyone with a brain knew he was cheating, just like they knew Bonds, Sosa, McGwire, and all those baseball guys were cheating. People turn a blind eye to the NFL and NBA but they cheat as well.. Baseball ignored the situation to make tons of money. The players didnt bring it up or simply said no comment.

    My issue with Lance is how he personally attacked any person who wrote or said anything negative about him in that regard. And for that deserves evrything he gets and more.
     

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