Ashaway 100% Zyex monofilament

Discussion in 'Strings' started by corners, Feb 22, 2012.

  1. Buford T Justice

    Buford T Justice Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2011
    Messages:
    424
    0.00000000001 g!

    Seriously though....its tiny. Ill weigh a racquet before and after sometime and post the results. I doubt my scale will even be able to accurately and repeatedly measure it.

    As for a half a gram throwing someone off......Im not sure of others, but on my end, theres no way I could tell the difference. Of the frames I am using now, 3 are within half a gram of each other and the 4th is the outlier at -3g, and back to back hits would not reveal to my crude sensitivities which is which!
     
  2. travlerajm

    travlerajm Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2006
    Messages:
    4,415
    Your asking me about how I like my kevlar/poly stringbed after the poly loses tension? In my experience, every poly I've tried becomes more like a trampoline when crossed with kevlar mains. The result?

    It actually gets spinnier as it ages. It starts our crisp off the stringer, and then gradually softens up with age. Eventually, you end up with a stringbed that plays like spaghetti strings (with lots of spin) and feels either like a butterfly net or a trampoline, depending on the setup. When I cut out the stringbed of a long-dead kevlar/poly combo, the kevlar still has enough tension to snap about a cm gap when I cut it, but the poly doesn't snap or leave a gap at all -- in other words, the frame is squashed a little by the kevlar and holding the kevlar under tension, and the poly is no longer contributing to the tension equilibrium of the string-racquet system. The racquets shorten several mm over time as the stringbed ages.

    While "dead" kevlar/poly is great for spinny Nadal-like strokes, and ok for spin serves. It it terrible for volleys and blocked returns against heavily spun incoming balls. The dwell time is too long and the stiffness too low to have good control on these types of shots.

    I'm on a mission to find a replacement for poly crosses (I'm amazing that such a flawed product has somehow become the industry standard) - hopefully this ZX experiment will work out when the dust settles from this experiment.
     
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2013
  3. corners

    corners Legend

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2008
    Messages:
    5,441
    If you're not familiar with travlerajm, he's devised a method of tuning racquets that is quite interesting. He's been at this for a while and apparently has become quite sensitive.
     
  4. corners

    corners Legend

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2008
    Messages:
    5,441
    Liberate the mains!
     
  5. travlerajm

    travlerajm Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2006
    Messages:
    4,415
    My sensitivity to weight and balance is much more heightened since I figured out how to tune my frames to better control the racquethead - I rely on my frames being perfectly tuned. If they are just the slightest bit off, my true level gets exposed.
     
  6. Buford T Justice

    Buford T Justice Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2011
    Messages:
    424
    Holy smokes....maybe thats my problem!

    My true level is showing ALL the time.....LOL:)
     
  7. julianashaway

    julianashaway Rookie

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2013
    Messages:
    145
    Yes. In a very different way than poly. If you look at that same string performance data base, you will see that TWU explains that the stiffness measurement is the key measurement upon which all others are dependant. Tension loss numbers alone do not tell you how the stringbed will react (lose tension). You need to anlyze in conjunction with dynamic stiffness. Dynamic stiffness (elasticity) is the strings ability to strech and return. The better the string does this, the better the string bed will maintain tension. The lower the number the better the dynamic stiffness. Ashaway's Zyex products are only bested in this catagory by natural-gut. If you play with Monogut ZX you will find that the string bed maintains tension much better than poly.
     
  8. newyorkstadium

    newyorkstadium Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2012
    Messages:
    585
    Wow, thanks julianashaway. That's cleared it up for me. I will try the string in the future. I've got a few others to try first.
     
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2013
  9. Torres

    Torres Banned

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2011
    Messages:
    4,766
    Black Magic 17 / Red ZX 1.27mm @ 52/53 CP

    Hours 2+3 of hitting. Stringbed feels lovely but just a fraction too powerful for my liking. Seems to be more powerful than when I was hitting with it last night, probably as a result of one or both of the strings (probably the poly) losing a bit of tension overnight. Stringbed doesn't feel as if it has the ultimate spin of a full Black Magic bed, but its not necessarily the easiest to tell because the power lengthens the trajectory of the ball, so I tended to try and hit flatter rather than ripping up the back of the ball. Quite a few of my flat serves were going fractionally long, and I didn't quite have the confidence to get my racquet speed up to the maximum for kickers, though that could be due to a bit of fatigue on my part. Feel a bit tired from yesterday and don't think I'm quite on my game today. Will probably up the tension slightly next time, but will see out it goes as I know from previously playing with these strings that they seem to drop in power eventually as they begin going dead.

    Hours 4+5. There's definitely not as much spin or 'cut' on the ball as with a fresh full bed of Black Magic 17. It's particuarly noticeably on slice serves on the deuce side, and kickers onto the opp's BH from the ad court. With a full bed of black magic, a good slice from the deuce side can pull opponents right off court outside of the trams. With this setup (with this amount of hitting on it), you're looking at much flatter angle wide rather than banana type trajectory of the ball off beyond the trams. With a kicker from the other side, the ball doesn't jump up and out of the court as much. Instead this hybrid setup (with this amount of hitting on it) seems to be all about LENGTH on the ball, keeping the (very) deep, and pinning your opponent well behind the baseline. Apart from a few mishits, I don't think I hit a single short ball for my opponent to attack off. The Black Magic has gone a bit rubbery, and stringbed doesn't feel as crisp as was when fresh (primarily due to the Black Magic turning a bit rubbery). That crispness has been replaced by a springiness in the stringbed. Touch is still there. I preferred how the stringbed felt during the first couple of hours, but its all due to the Black Magic starting to go off (it doesn't last long). I just wish Black Magic lasted a bit longer because its a great poly when fresh.
     
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2013
  10. corners

    corners Legend

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2008
    Messages:
    5,441
    Sounds like upping the tension on the poly main next time to compensate for tension loss might be a good idea.
     
  11. Torres

    Torres Banned

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2011
    Messages:
    4,766
    If this doesn't work corners, I want a refund of my hand cream.... ;-)
     
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2013
  12. PBODY99

    PBODY99 Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2005
    Messages:
    3,212
    About a full bed.......

    I have a full bed in my feeding frame.
    No, it is not a replacement for poly rather it gives me gut like comfort and tension stability.
     
  13. corners

    corners Legend

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2008
    Messages:
    5,441
    Well, if nothing else you've just proved that what kind of man you are. A real man would never have hand cream in the house.
     
  14. Buford T Justice

    Buford T Justice Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2011
    Messages:
    424
    At least he bought his own! I just "secured" my daughters night time sleepy lavender lotion!
     
  15. Torres

    Torres Banned

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2011
    Messages:
    4,766
    If it doesn't work, I'm probably going to try a (1) silicone based lubricant (2) a PTFE based lubricant.

    Even if it squeezes a couple of hours more life out of a string job, it would probably be worth it, given how expensive this string is and how quickly polys go dead.
     
  16. Buford T Justice

    Buford T Justice Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2011
    Messages:
    424
    It will work for sure. The extending of the stringbed life was a driver for me as we'll.

    The question is....will the spray lubes last longer.....I haven't tried any of them as the lotion is cheap and I can keep a tiny plastic bottle in my pocket to apply the lotion as often as I want. Plus, I was concerned about grease getting everywhere. But, if the ptfe lubricant can spray on wet and dry fast, it should work great. No matter what though, I think any lube is going to need to be applied fairly often (as in every few games for maximum effectiveness).
     
  17. jason586

    jason586 Rookie

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2011
    Messages:
    225
    I tried the red can of silicone spray from Wal-M, but I find the lotion does just as good a job (if not better) and is easier/quicker to apply plus you can apply it while on the courts if needed without a spectacle of spray cans, etc. I keep a small one in my tennis bag as I can quickly put a little lotion on my finger and rub it against the crosses. Then just move the mains a couple times back and forth, and the stringbed is noticeably softer and more playable. It takes maybe a minute to do and the effects seem to last a couple hours for me.

     
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2013
  18. corners

    corners Legend

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2008
    Messages:
    5,441
    That's pretty good effect for not much effort! Do you always use your non-playing hand for application? I find lotion to be the bane of a secure grip. So much so that I'm loathe to apply sunscreen before playing unless I've got soap and water handy to wash it off my hands before playing.

    Although this talk of lube does bring up another question: If lubing can get stuck strings to move, why not just use full gut with lubrication? (There's the cost of course. But ZX is primarily interesting to me because it's the closest string, on paper, to natural gut, but is slippery enough to slide freely, at least when new.)
     
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2013
  19. jason586

    jason586 Rookie

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2011
    Messages:
    225
    I usually use my non-playing index finger to apply the lotion to the crosses, although it does not take very much lotion. I just put a small dab on my index finger and do one side of the crosses, then one more dab and flip the racquet over and do the other side of the crosses, then move the mains back and forth. If I forget and put it on my playing hand's index finger, I have a towel in my bag that I thoroughly rub it off with.

     
  20. Buford T Justice

    Buford T Justice Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2011
    Messages:
    424
    It appears to me, thus far anyway, that the "plastic" strings (i.e. ones which do not absorb) seem to become more slippery with lotion than gut does.

    But, I also think the effect doesnt last as long either. (I am also unsure of the effects of lotion on gut, as many typical lotions have water as a main ingrdient, so I am using baby oil with the gut/poly hybrids to be safe).

    I sense a TW Prof experiment in the making!

    And.....I also sense a new product for someone to market..........
     
  21. Buford T Justice

    Buford T Justice Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2011
    Messages:
    424
    Same here...piece of cake. I dont even move the mains manually. I just do a small dab on the string bed, quickly spread it around, then swing away. The first ball that is hit after relubing feels very very obviously different.
     
  22. corners

    corners Legend

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2008
    Messages:
    5,441
    The guy that sold Performaxx natural gut strings on the bay also sold two different spray lubricants meant especially for gut. I remember a poster posting a review of it, used on a bed of full gut. I think he said it worked very well - that the gut never got "out of place." At the time I dismissed it as being too much trouble. But if copoly "dies" primarily because of increasing friction then lube is really the only answer, until a company figures out how to make a string that doesn't get scuffed, notched or dented. So if we're going to lube, maybe we should just lube gut.

    Anyway, we're veering the Monogut ZX thread a little off course here, so I'm starting a new thread.
     
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2013
  23. Torres

    Torres Banned

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2011
    Messages:
    4,766
    Just had an hours hit with this hand cream string job. I'm not seeing any difference. In fact, the black magic has stiffened up and feeling a bit low powered and nasty. Not noticing any increased spin. The ZX seems a bit wasted when the poly goes dead this quick.
     
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2013
  24. jason586

    jason586 Rookie

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2011
    Messages:
    225
    How old is the string job and how notched are the mains?
    My experiences are much better with full BM and BM crossed with PS Classic, but I don't normally start appling lotion until a stringjob is about 15 hours old and the mains are about 1/3 notched through. The lotion definitely makes the stiff bed softer and more playable for me (I play 4.0+ mostly baseline game with heavy topspin).

    Next time I string a new full poly string job, I'll try lotion every 2 hours from the start just to see if I can tell any difference on newer strings.

     
  25. downunder

    downunder New User

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2013
    Messages:
    11
    I have been enjoying my first set of Monogut ZX (brown) over the last few weeks. It is very soft on the arm, powerful (lowish tension), and good spin/control. It may be a little less predictable than my previous string (Ashaway Dynamite 17 soft/natural/green) because there is a lot more power when I centre the ball than when it is slightly off centre.

    ZX feels a bit like Head Sonic Pro 17 (soft poly) but is softer and does not loose it performance quickly like Sonic Pro.

    The ZX is strung in a Head IG Radical OS at 50 pounds (the recommended range is 48 to 57). The previous dynamite 17 was strung at 50 as well.
     
  26. corners

    corners Legend

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2008
    Messages:
    5,441
    Thanks for your contribution! Welcome to TT!
     
  27. travlerajm

    travlerajm Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2006
    Messages:
    4,415
    Update on my Kevlar/ZX experiment in the Blade:

    After adjusting the weighting back down to MgR/I = 21.0 and SW = 373, I took it back to the racquetball court Fri night. Forehand felt decent, but 2hb seemed to come off flatter than I like. Control was ok, but could be better.

    Then I had an outdoor doubles match yesterday. In the warmups, I just couldn't get very comfortable with the Blade, and this time it was mostly due to the stringbed. I couldn't volley confidently, and groundies seemed to come off at too high a launch angle. I ended up playing my match with my Prostaff 4.7 OS instead (it was windy, and it was the first time outdoors of the season, so I felt more confident with the larger head).

    I came home and noticed that the stringbed was awfully soft when I pressed into it with my thumbs -- much softer than my usual tolerance level. As much as I enjoyed the extra power on serves due to the softer stringbed, the downside of a soft stringbed (reduced control) is unacceptable for me. So my conclusion is that 49 lbs with kevlar/ZX in the blade was way too low.

    Today I did something I've never done before -- I restrung my Blade using the same string (it had 4-6 hours of play already). I clamped the strung racquet on the stringer, and snipped the bottom cross and unwove it all the way to the starting knot. Then I snipped the outer mains. I didn't need to reweave the mains: I simply clamped the center mains, pulled tension to 55 lbs, then "walked off the friction slack" with my fingers several times (with the technique described previously in a stringing thread) until the dropweight stopped falling further. Then I rewove the crosses at 55 lbs. I omitted the outer mains and bottom cross (to give a 16x19), but since the outer mains ont he Blade are so close the frame, I don't think the missing strings mattered.

    My hope was that this restrung stringbed would be firm and nicely playable, and also more stable, since it should already had most of the relaxation slack pulled out of it.

    Hit indoors today with the firmed-up stringbed, and the results were superb. Best all-around-playing stringbed I've ever used. Definitely a little bit lower powered, but confidence on groundies and volleys was sky-high.
     
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2013
  28. newyorkstadium

    newyorkstadium Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2012
    Messages:
    585
    Sorry to go off topic a bit. As I've said earlier I'll try this string setup after I've tried a few others. Obviously, Ill share my thoughts on here.
     
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2013
  29. corners

    corners Legend

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2008
    Messages:
    5,441
    Glad that upping the tension worked. And nice job with the stringjob! I still don't understand why Ashaway recommends such low tensions with Monogut ZX, given its extremely low dynamic stiffness. Their guy Julian says it's because ZX, like gut, does not decrease in stiffness much as you drop tension. Nor does it increase tension much at higher tensions. But just like gut the deflection and dwell time do increase at lower tensions, and so too must all the problems that come with too much deflection.

    Look forward to hearing how the tighter bed performs on court.

    I usually do gut/poly at around 50 in a mid and plan on doing gut/ZX at 55. Hopefully that's tight enough. 60 might be better.
     
  30. Boricua

    Boricua Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2011
    Messages:
    3,084
    Corners, I strung a pro kennex Q5 295 at 47. Will get the racket tomorrow hopefully. Then I will try Turbo Twist mains, zyex crosses also at 47. I am already thinking of what othet poly main I could use. What about solinco tour bite soft? I have golferscelbow aggavated by vibrations so dont know i sinco zyex coulb be too harsh. Also, let us know how the gut/zyex goes. What brand of gut will you use? Pacific tough gut mains zyex crosses could be good,
     
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2013
  31. travlerajm

    travlerajm Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2006
    Messages:
    4,415
    Yes - I think using a substantially higher tension than you normally use is a key with the ZX. I would suspect that you could easily go up to 60 with gut/ZX on a mid - below that I'd be concerned that it might feel pretty springy. Other than the fact that its surface is slick, this ZX stuff is nothing at all like a poly.

    Today I was on full indoor tennis court, but just hitting with my wife (who doesn't hit with any spin, so not a complete test yet). The re-tensioned stringbed played similar to a freshly strung kevlar/poly (boardy in a good way), with excellent control and precise targeting - the precision targeting of fresh kevlar/poly only lasts an hour or so until the kevlar breaks in, and then gradually gets worse and worse as the poly continues to relax.

    My hope for this kevlar/ZX is that I can continue to get that precision targeting feel for many hours of play.
     
  32. corners

    corners Legend

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2008
    Messages:
    5,441
    Yeah, my initial plan was gut/ZX at 60 but then I started hearing all these recommendations to drop tension. Sucks that tension experiments with gut are so expensive! Probably many good gut hybrids remain identified simply because there isn't enough gut to go around.

    Hope ZX holds for you. The world desperately needs a viable alternative to copoly crosses.
     
  33. corners

    corners Legend

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2008
    Messages:
    5,441
    Cool Boricua, hope it plays nicely for you at 47. I think Turbo Twist mains will be good. I'm not sure I would go for the Tourbite Soft. Regular Tourbite in the 18 gauge is a very soft string and I think will hold tension better than the Soft version. That's usually the problem with the softest copolys - they lose tension worse than the stiff ones. However, that is not the case, according to the lab results, with Gosen Sidewinder 17. Sidewinder tested as one of the top 5 softest copolys and is in the top 20 for tension maintenance as well. It might be a good try for the mains. But use what you have.

    As far as the gut goes, I think Tough would be great. People say it's stiffer than other guts, but the lab tests show it's only about 10% stiffer so it's still much softer than the softest multi. I'm not too picky; as long as it came out of an animal rather than an extruder I'm inclined to be pleased. I tend to get whatever I can find on sale, especially when plotting multiple playtests.
     
  34. Boricua

    Boricua Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2011
    Messages:
    3,084
    Yes. Turbo twist is soft but pretty powerful. Nonetheless I will use hybrids for now as I have golfers elbow caused by using an APD with full poly. Vibrations got to my elbow. That is why I switched to Pro Kennex Q5 295. Today I will try it for the first time with full Zyex at 47.
     
  35. polytheist

    polytheist Rookie

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2011
    Messages:
    362
    Location:
    Irvine, CA
    TurboTwist is way powerful.
     
  36. Torres

    Torres Banned

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2011
    Messages:
    4,766
    ZX at 47 in that stick is also too low.
     
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2013
  37. Boricua

    Boricua Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2011
    Messages:
    3,084
    Julianashaway recommended to go a couple of pounds under
    50 with Zyex if I strung poly at 50.
     
  38. Boricua

    Boricua Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2011
    Messages:
    3,084
    Yes, but its soft for a poly and being Weiss cannon it should hold good tension
     
  39. Torres

    Torres Banned

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2011
    Messages:
    4,766
    Unless you hit like a granny, 47 is too low in that stick.
     
  40. mikeler

    mikeler G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2008
    Messages:
    19,682
    Location:
    Central Florida
    I'm starting to believe the low tension does not equal a whole lot more power theory after string back up at 60 in my Exo Tours. Of course, that is with a gut/DM hybrid. It does seem to affect launch angle though.
     
  41. travlerajm

    travlerajm Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2006
    Messages:
    4,415
    Hit again with the wife on full court indoors with the re-tensioned Blade.

    Tension had dropped a bit from the previous hit. More power, more spin, a little higher rebound angle, a little less control. Still pretty nice overall. Strings sliding more freely than before.

    Hoping that the tension plateaus soon as advertised (like kevlar/syn gut) and doesn't continue to drop (like poly). Today it was fine, but if it gets much softer, will need to cut it out and try a higher tension - maybe somewhere in the 60s.
     
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2013
  42. corners

    corners Legend

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2008
    Messages:
    5,441
    Putting aside Ashaway's tension recommendations, ZX is only about 20% stiffer than gut, so stringing tighter makes sense.
     
  43. corners

    corners Legend

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2008
    Messages:
    5,441
    Yeah, 10-20 pounds difference in tension only represents 2-3 mph. Bigger difference is prob launch angle. People have been habitually exaggerating the speed differences, of both strings and racquets, and underestimating the launch angle differences, for years. They will continue to do so, too, because of a potent combination of wishful thinking and marketing propaganda.
     
  44. PigPen

    PigPen Rookie

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2006
    Messages:
    237
    Has anyone tried The Zyex as a cross for natural gut?
     
  45. newyorkstadium

    newyorkstadium Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2012
    Messages:
    585
    Have folks on here tried Smasher08's Classic gut/CoFocus combo? The comments suggest it plays well for up to 60 hours. It would be good if someone could compare that combo with Poly/Zyex, or Gut/Zyex, as PigPen suggested. I haven't tried either yet.
     
  46. Torres

    Torres Banned

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2011
    Messages:
    4,766
    I've played with Klip Legend / Cofocus. I can't see how it plays well for up to 60 hours. Its good enough when fresh but as soon as that poly starts losing tension, the string bed starts becoming uncontrolled.
     
  47. Torres

    Torres Banned

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2011
    Messages:
    4,766
    Next up on the ZX testing conveyor belt will be:

    1. Brown Monogut ZX 1.27mm full bed @ 55lbs CP (Juice Pro 96/16x20). Have gone up tension 5% compared to the red.

    2. Pacific Polyforce Extreme 1.25mm / Red Monogut ZX 1.27mm full bed @ 52/53lbc CP (Juice Pro 96/16x20).

    The Black Magic 1.23 / Red ZX 1.27 hybrid was just fantastic but was only as good as the poly lasted, which in the case of Black Magic wasn't very long at all (about 5 hours). Going to try and find a spin based poly that plays for longer before going dead.
     
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2013
  48. corners

    corners Legend

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2008
    Messages:
    5,441
    A couple people have, but their reports were not particularly helpful. Neither gave the setup much of a chance (played with it for only a short time) and probably strung too low. In theory it should be an awesome combo if the tension is right. ZX is much less stiff than Cofocus or any other copoly. It also seems to hold tension better, but is slippery like a copoly.

    ChicagoJack is currently on a quest to find a better setup than gut/cofocus and ZX is one of the cross strings on his list. I have high hopes for gut/ZX myself and am looking forward to trying it.
     
  49. corners

    corners Legend

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2008
    Messages:
    5,441
    Have you considered looking at the TWU string database for polys that hold tension well? I recall that 4G, Tourbite 16L, Revenge (ultra stiff, though), 4S and Hurricane Feel were at the top of the list.
     
  50. PigPen

    PigPen Rookie

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2006
    Messages:
    237
    Thanks Corners. I agree with Torres about Co-Focus. Nice for a few hours, then it becomes a rocket launcher. I have been stringing Wilson Gut/Cofocus at 51/47. What would you think a similar powered setup for zx would be? Would zx be as spinny?
     

Share This Page