Ashaway 100% Zyex monofilament

Discussion in 'Strings' started by corners, Feb 22, 2012.

  1. JackB1

    JackB1 G.O.A.T.

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    To me, the optimum way to use Zx seems to be as a full job or as a cross with a poly mains. All other combos seem to fall short.
     
  2. fgs

    fgs Hall of Fame

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    i'm pretty fond of zx mains and multi crosses.
     
  3. mikeler

    mikeler G.O.A.T.

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    Which string breaks first for you?
     
  4. fgs

    fgs Hall of Fame

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    with the first set of zx i have restrung the crosses 4 times. i know it sounds weird, but the stuff just kept playing without any loss in playability.
    my second halfset of zx mains is now on the second re-crossing but sitting for a pretty while in my bag as i have some other strings to test. i take it out every now and then to hit a few balls and interestingly it keeps up really well.
     
  5. Ronaldo

    Ronaldo G.O.A.T.

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    Which strings are you using for crosses?
     
  6. fgs

    fgs Hall of Fame

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    my beloved limp noodle THE mantis comfort synthetic.
     
  7. Ramon

    Ramon Hall of Fame

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    Last time I checked, my machine was maybe 1 pound low if that at the 50 lbs setting according to Alpha's calibration tool. It's not digital so I have to eyeball it. Keep in mind I have a drop weight machine. Most machines are lockout. When you talk to other people about tension, they usually don't differentiate between CP and lockout tension, and lots of pro shops are honestly terrible on accuracy and come in low. Maybe it's because they rush through jobs and don't complete the elongation.

    Through these RacquetTune measurements, I concluded that what's 50 on my machine is closer to 58 on the average machine after the job is complete. I see it time and time again from all the data I've collected. Keep in mind I not only use a CP machine, I also give it a long pull to make sure all the elongation is done and the effects of friction are minimized. If Torres is using a CP machine and takes time on his pulls, it's likely that his tensions will correlate closer to mine than yours.
     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2013
  8. Ramon

    Ramon Hall of Fame

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    ZX/Hexy 54/54 CP after 5 hours, holding up nicely

    I've played with ZX/Hexy 54/54 CP (probably around 62# for you lockout guys) for about 5 hours of singles now. Hexy Fiber looks a little bit beaten up, but Mono ZX 1.27 natural looks barely touched. String movement is still minimal; not like fresh poly, but more like a good multi. I still seem to be getting the same amount of spin and control as I did when it was fresh. Now that I'm getting used to this string, even my serves are better now. I can still get a little more maximum velocity from a good multi or gut, but when my groundstrokes are more consistent, I think the tradeoff is worth it.

    My RacquetTune measurements indicate a 14.7% tension loss at the 5 hour mark. My closest comparison would be my RIP Control/Hexy hybrid at 50/50 CP. At the 5 hour mark, the RIP/Hexy hybrid lost 15.2% tension (probably most of that from Hexy). RIP Control is one of the best multis I've tested for tension maintenance. At 5 hours the consistent playability of this setup is impressive, and the RacquetTune readings support that. My arm also agrees with it, and it can typically detect poly in about 3 hours.

    It's hard to believe I'm liking this string combo after the bad experience I had with NG/ZX. This setup looks like it will last at least another 5 hours, and it will be interesting to see how it holds up.
     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2013
  9. julianashaway

    julianashaway Rookie

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    Do you usually use a multi as the mains with Hexy crosses? Any other than RIP Control? How many hours of play do you normally get from this set-up and is it the mains or crosses that give out?
     
  10. Ramon

    Ramon Hall of Fame

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    RIP Control was the only multi I used as a main with Hexy. I've had either string break first with RIP/Hexy, and I typically get 12-15 hours from it, which is a lot for me with a multi. RIP Control is not your typical multi. It's a unique string, and its tension maintenance is much better than any multi I tested. I tried full bed RIP Control a long time ago on my APDGT, and after 5 hours it only lost 8.4% tension. Eventually, it lost 9.7% just before breaking, and that was after it frayed so much I could actually see the places where it stretched.

    I'll eventually get around to testing mono ZX in a full bed. Subjectively, the mains seem to be holding up really well.
     
  11. julianashaway

    julianashaway Rookie

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    Most of the tension loss of ZX happens in the initial settling period. Once it has settled, ZX will maintain tension for quite a while. In your current set-up I think the life will be determined by the Hexy either losing tension or breaking. Time will tell!

    I'm glad you have found some benefit in ZX after your bad experience with NG/ZX. I recommend that when you try the full bed that you string with 2 lbs more tension than you did with this ZX/ Hexy set-up. Hopefully the higher tension will provide enough control for you to enjoy the string in a full bed.
     
  12. Dimcorner

    Dimcorner Professional

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    I normally play with full poly @ 45 lbs on an ADP. If I hybrid this setup with ZX as a cross would it still be recommended to go up on tension for the crosses?
     
  13. Slitch

    Slitch Rookie

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    Julian, what does ZX do when it loses tension over time? How does it influence the stiffness and power over time?
     
  14. SJSA

    SJSA Semi-Pro

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    The mid tension range of your racket will be ideal for the first try. ZX is not poly and its tension should be higher than poly's.
     
  15. SJSA

    SJSA Semi-Pro

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    Does anyone know when TW carries ZX Pro?
     
  16. julianashaway

    julianashaway Rookie

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    Monogut ZX has some tension loss in the initial settling period (say 24 hours). After that it maintains tension very well. Most players report significant longevity to the playability of the string bed. It is more likely to have to restring due to breakage than due to a change in playability due to tension loss. I have not heard much talk of Monogut ZX "going dead" as you often hear of with Poly.

    If you were able to play with ZX long enough to experience enough tension loss to notice a difference in playability, I think it would manifest as a decrease in power. As the elastic properties of the PEEK have degraded you should be returning less energy to the ball. It could make the string bed feel stiffer for that same reason or it may feel less stiff because the strings have become a little more limp. Players tend to report the "feel" of stiffness differently depending on how they define it.

    I repeat, tension loss should not be a major concern with ZX because if the string lasts long enough for you to experience it, it has already lasted longer than Poly or Nylon strings would have.
     
  17. julianashaway

    julianashaway Rookie

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    Yes. Mid 50's for the ZX.
     
  18. julianashaway

    julianashaway Rookie

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    It should be any day now.
     
  19. mrmike

    mrmike Rookie

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    Hi Julian, I have a question for you regarding tensioning ZX on a dropweight machine. I recently purchased a set of wheat color 16G and tried to install it on my C10 Pro @ 58Lbs. Because the string is so elastic, I had to reset the string in the tensioner cam about 3X every pull. About 1/2 way through the mains, the string snapped even though I was being quite careful. So, I tried to salvage the 1/2 set and do a hybrid job with ZX on the mains and I snapped it yet again. I don't believe I have any burrs on the grommets and recently had full gut on the same frame. I am thinking the tensioner itself is snapping the string. Is ZX just not compatible with a cheap drop weight machine which requires re-setting the string on tensioner multiple times in order to get the weight to sit horizontal?
     
  20. mikeler

    mikeler G.O.A.T.

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    Julian,

    Can you share your tension loss measurements for MonoGut ZX. I'm just interested to see how it correlates with RacquetTune.
     
  21. hmd

    hmd New User

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    I bought only one set to try, can I please have recommended tension for full set ZX on a blx pro-open which usually strung at 53lbs.
     
  22. Torres

    Torres Banned

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    If its being strung on a lock out machine, personally I'd start in the upper 50s, maybe even close to 60 for the 1.27 depending on how control orientated you want the stringbed, and on a constant pull machine mid 50s or slightly above, though it will of course, all depend on the particular player and the particular APDC (I had one at 330g stock). It would be useful to know what the poly was (inc gauge) that was being strung at 45lbs because if deader lower powered poly and you want that type of response off the stringbed (yet with comfort), he's more likely to get it by stringing ZX high. Obviously if he's looking for more of a nylon type stringbed, then mid 50s on a lock out, as you've suggested may work.

    With the first 'tension attempt' with this string I personally, would always err on the side of higher with this string as its still perfectly playable if the tension is slightly too high, but that's not so much the case if the tension is too low.

    Not sure if this helps:

    http://www.ashawayusa.com/Polyketone5.php

    Personally, I would have liked to have seen (1) tension measured over more than 21 days and (2) tension measured with ball hitting.

    Here's a tension maintenance graph for Kirschbaum Pro Line II from another TT member which gives you an idea of how hitting affects tension loss for a poly (though I can't vouch for its accuracy - I simply reproduce it):

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2013
  23. hmd

    hmd New User

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    Sorry meant to say usually strung with multi at 53lbs.
     
  24. julianashaway

    julianashaway Rookie

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    Did Torres' response help? Unfortunately I don't have any numbers taking impact into account. It would be difficult for you to scientifically compare such numbers (if I had them) using RacquetTune because everyone's swing speeds and impacts are different.

    The takeaway is really that PEEK holds tension better than Poly or Nylon. This is true with impact or without.
     
  25. julianashaway

    julianashaway Rookie

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    I say 58 lbs.
     
  26. julianashaway

    julianashaway Rookie

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    What type of drop weight machine are you using?
     
  27. mikeler

    mikeler G.O.A.T.

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    I've got 3 sets of singles and 1 set of doubles on the wheat ZX. I'll check the tension loss tonight.
     
  28. julianashaway

    julianashaway Rookie

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    Playability and durability comparable to red, so far?
     
  29. Dimcorner

    Dimcorner Professional

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    My ADP is using Yonex Poly Tour Pro 125 @ 45. So you guys think it's ok to string the poly tour at 45lbs main and ZX cross 50lbs or were you talking a full bed of ZX?
     
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2013
  30. mikeler

    mikeler G.O.A.T.

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    Playability is the same, I can't tell a difference between the two. I can't really comment on durability until I break it which will probably be awhile since I'm mostly using my poly hybrid at the moment.
     
  31. mrmike

    mrmike Rookie

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    Klippermate - had it for years and it serves well for what I use it for, which is personal stringing and a for a few buddies from time to time. I realize that its not the optimum, with flying clamps etc. I've never had to re-tension so many times as with ZX (even with flexy stuff like Mantis comfort or WC Explosiv) so I could see why this could be problematic. Maybe I should have tried a pre-stretch first ?
     
  32. hmd

    hmd New User

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    Julian,

    I meant normally strung with synthetic at 53lbs. Do you mean 48 or 58 with Monogut?
     
  33. julianashaway

    julianashaway Rookie

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    I meant 58. The initial thinking that lead to our recommendation of stringing 10-15% lower than Poly or Nylon was based on the fact that the string maintains tension better than Poly or Nylon. We thought that MZX at 48 would feel like nylon at 53 because of the tension maintenance. While this is probably true in terms of the firmness of the string-bed, our thinking has changed based on the continuous feedback we are getting from the market.

    We now believe that MZX should be thought of as different from Poly or Nylon. This string has unique properties. Most report that the string is too difficult to control in the 40's. Most seem to prefer the string in the mid to upper 50's. The bed may feel a little firmer than you are used to. Don't worry! There will still be plenty of power and you should not feel any stress on your arm.
     
  34. mikeler

    mikeler G.O.A.T.

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    I concur, it does stretch even more than those 2 strings.
     
  35. mikeler

    mikeler G.O.A.T.

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    So I tested out the tension loss with RacquetTune last night. I was using the default string factor for polyester which may have skewed the results, so I would not take this as gospel. Initial 24 hour tension loss was 5.2%. After 5 sets of singles and 1 set of doubles, it reads 19% tension loss.

    That is pretty high but it performed admirably last night, so I'm more interested in performance over time versus tension loss. Another string that lost a lot of tension was Isospeed Control Classic but it played great even with 25% tension loss.
     
  36. julianashaway

    julianashaway Rookie

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    A pre-stretch may give you a better chance. That being said, this is probably not the right equipment to use with this string. I know the string is not cheap and don't want to see you waste money. Do you have an alternative way to get MZX into your racquet?
     
  37. Dimcorner

    Dimcorner Professional

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    OK ordered ZX and yonex PTP and PTS 125. Once they get here will try to string hybrid PTS main @ 46# and ZX corss @ 50#. Does that sound about right?
     
  38. julianashaway

    julianashaway Rookie

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    Most have preferred MZX higher than 50 even in a hybrid. How stiff/ low powered/ control oriented is the PTS? If it brings enough control to the set-up you may be ok with the ZX at 50 lbs.
     
  39. PigPen

    PigPen Rookie

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    Has anyone been able to control the buzz from this string? I am stringing Wilson NG/ZX at 53/51.
     
  40. Ronaldo

    Ronaldo G.O.A.T.

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    In what racquet?
     
  41. Ramon

    Ramon Hall of Fame

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    Put a dampener in there and just live with it. Multiple dampeners might work but it always results in an isolated feel and this string lacks feel as it is.

    Let us know what happens with NG/ZX and don't hold back! I think the buzz will be the least of your worries.
     
  42. corners

    corners Legend

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    What is your normal tension with gut/poly? With full gut?
     
  43. mikeler

    mikeler G.O.A.T.

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    I have a Wilson Shock Shield dampener and there is ZERO buzz.
     
  44. Torres

    Torres Banned

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    Er, you played with it for 5 minutes, at the wrong tension, strung on a broken stringing machine.
     
  45. Torres

    Torres Banned

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    I'd be interested to know that as well, along with the gauge and racquet, because 53/51 sounds way too low.

    Obviously, tensions are player specific, to an individual player's particular preferences and inevitably involve a degree of trial an error but from my own experiences and from what I've seen so far in this thread, for an first attempt at an initial tension :-

    1. For an open pattern 16x18, 16x19 type 100sq" stick, something in the region of 55lbs - 60lbs on a lock out / crank machine might be appropriate. The rounder the hoop eg. Head Extreme Pro 2.0 or the more open the drill pattern, the higher you may want to go within that tension range for your first attempt. Same if you want a more control orientated stringbed. Then adjust tensions to suit with the next restring.

    2. In my heavy(ish) 95/18x20 (BLX 6.1) and 96/16x20 (BLX JP), I liked 53-54lbs on a constant pull machine. Seemed fine to me even with no prestretch and at a 100% pull speed setting. Stringing at a 60% pull speed setting, just seemed to take out a bit of the crisp feel, though the string remained perfectly playable.

    3. In my Donnay P1 (ovalish 97/16x19 and probably smaller usable stringbed area than the JP), I strung NG/ZX1.27 at 60/56 constant pull. Firm off the stringing machine but ater a couple of days of allowing the tension to settle, it seems like a good base tension from which to work with. It played perfectly well once the string tensions had settled. Maybe a lb lower on the ZX and maybe slightly higher on the Wilson next time but it remains to be seen whether that would improve things or make things worse. It's really for the individual player to experiment with. Wilson is a powerful natural gut, which is the complicating factor.

    It's practically impossible to absolutely exact with the initial tension attempt because everything is so racquet/player specific, not least based on what they want to achieve from the stringbed, what they're looking for and what they're used to.
     
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2013
  46. Ramon

    Ramon Hall of Fame

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    I already addressed this several times:

    http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showpost.php?p=7528388&postcount=1057

    But you haven't answered my question:

    http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showpost.php?p=7526896&postcount=1046

    One thing I can agree on is that 53/51 is probably too low for NG/ZX, but I'm not the only one here who has major doubts about NG/ZX:

    http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showpost.php?p=7523659&postcount=1014

    The first time I tried NG/Poly, it was too loose and too powerful. However, I knew it had potential because the control was still good and the spin was terrific, so I decided to string it 8 pounds higher and it played great.

    NG/ZX, on the other hand, showed me absolutely nothing to merit another try. I can deal with it having a lot of power because I know I just have to tighten it, but the absence of any control, feel, and spin really turned me off (and again, I'm not the only one who observed this). There are other things I consider too. If I use a gut setup, I'm going to be paying a lot of money for decent natural gut (Pacific Classic at minimum). I think it's a blessing in disguise that I decided my next test would be ZX/Multi, which is much cheaper and I don't have to worry about it getting wet.
     
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2013
  47. Torres

    Torres Banned

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    That's because you strung it too low.

    For the billionth time, 50lbs CP for NG/ZX is too low in that open pattern 100sq" HH 380g SW tree log stick of yours.

    How many times does this have to be said to you before it gets through your skull?

    I am however amazed that you keep on posting in this thread in respect of a string that you don't like. OCD perhaps or just trolling?
     
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2013
  48. mikeler

    mikeler G.O.A.T.

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    Can we have a Ramon/Torres truce please?
     
  49. Torres

    Torres Banned

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    No truce needed - stringng natural gut / ZX at 50lbs in a 380g swingweight stick, hitting with it for 5 minutes, and then whining that he hits all over the place is just dumb beyond belief.

    Kimiko Data-Krumm by comparison strings her 1.35mm natural gut at 65/62lbs CP

    and I can guarantee that her technique and swing mechanics are lightyears above his and her game infinitely more control orientated.
     
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2013
  50. Ramon

    Ramon Hall of Fame

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    What does that have to do with anything? Are you a pro or something? Unless you are, my guess is your game isn't any closer to her's than mine is.

    Travlerajm, as much as he wanted to like NG/ZX, couldn't even stand to stay on the court with it for more than 5 minutes at a time. As for why I didn't want to keep playing with it, I already posted my explanation:

    http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showpost.php?p=7525532&postcount=1030

    NG/ZX was one ugly chick! Maybe you're the type who insists on staying the whole night with her, but that's not for me!

    I already explained that I've tried other setups like NG/Poly that were too low in tension but worth trying again because of certain things I liked. NG/ZX was nowhere close.
     
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2013

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