Ashaway 100% Zyex monofilament

Discussion in 'Strings' started by corners, Feb 22, 2012.

  1. Lakers4Life

    Lakers4Life Hall of Fame

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    Two other strings that are made with Zyex, Wilson NXT Max and Gamma Livewire XP.

    I've only strung the MG ZX, I have yet to try it for myself. I'm hoping to get a few sets for personal use, once my client submits his review to Ashaway. Sure I can always buy it, but FREE is always nice.
     
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2013
  2. corners

    corners Legend

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    Yeah, the Zyex has low static stiffness, so it elongates a lot when tensioned slowly. But that low stiffness also means it doesn't stiffen up in dynamic situations, like when struck with a ball or hammer. Polys are stiff to begin with, are stiff after tensioning and get even stiffer during impact.

    But what I meant with the Zyex vs. gut is that the zyex loses more tension than gut, so when tested it appears to be even less stiff than it is, because it ends up getting tested at a lower tension than a gut. Hopefully I'm explaining this right. Anyway, the point is that your chart made MZX look just as flexible as gut. Its not, but it's only a little stiffer than the chart has it. Rather than 105.7 it's more like 120. Syngut is around 200. Revenge is about 300. The new 17g version should be even less stiff.

    Regarding tension loss, TW University tests show that MZX loses tension like a poly. But Ashaway claims it loses less tension than syngut. I don't think the TW University tests accurately reflect real-world tension loss. It seems extreme to me. But I don't know who to believe regarding MZX.

    In the book Technical Tennis, the authors talk about how loose strings generating more power is overrated. They estimated that halving the stiffness of your strings nets you about 3 extra mph. Since dropping the tension of a syngut by 10 pounds only reduces stringbed stiffness by about 20%, you'd only get about 0.6 extra miles per hour, at the expense of some control. But gut is half as stiff as syngut, so if you can control a full bed of gut you'll get a nice 3 mph by switching from syngut to gut. And if you happen to switch from Revenge to gut you'll get a whopping 6 mph extra on your 1st serve. Sounds nice. MZX might get you 5 mph. So if it can be controlled it could be a great string.

    I asked TW Chris about it today in the Q section and apparently he finds it too lively. I'm going to give it a go when the weather turns. I think it should work at the right tension.
     
  3. sstchur

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    Gamma Professional also has Zyex in it.
     
  4. Torres

    Torres Banned

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    Sounds like this string might benefit from a pre-stretch.
     
  5. ricki

    ricki Professional

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    Before I played with BBO and my forearm had no comments. Now I played 4x 1 hr seession in 4 days and my arm is on fire, pain in arm while wiping my .... :-( But it could be with change of racket - now toying with Prince Ignite - great stick!!!

    But playability wise it really feels like syn gut (crisp such as PSGDF) and doesnt move so much (mains do move a little).

    More spin, durability and better slice than PSGDF.
     
  6. Automatix

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    I've found no similarities to gut when I playtested this string.
     
  7. maxpotapov

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    What about differences with regular polyester?
     
  8. ricki

    ricki Professional

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    Poly does not move.
    Same stiffness - maybe monogut even stiffer.
    Edit: I had the "beige-caramel" color monogut
     
  9. TW Staff

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    I tested an earlier prototype of ZX on the string basher down in Vista, CA (on the first version of the TW professor's machine). When pulled to 28KG it elongated 44 mm as compared to your average stiff poly 4-to-6 mm. Crazy. The elongation is closer to that found with a soft multi. But yes, nothing quite matches natty gut's low stiffness at higher tensions. I must say, as regards ZX, the stiffness value didn't change as much as you'd think over the course of the test. Despite how soft ZX tested in the lab and how comparable the installed stiffness may or may not be to N.G., the difference in feel and feedback between it and N.G. (both tactile and auditory) suggests that stiffness is not the whole story. Responses on the playtests I've conducted have been all over the board. Some people think it's remarkably soft and powerful, others not so much. The whole experience has left me wanting the professor to build a perception machine in the lab so we can figure out why their is so little agreement about this string.

    Jon
     
  10. mikeler

    mikeler G.O.A.T.

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    Put that Professor to work!
     
  11. PBODY99

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    I have played ZYEX strings since TOA released their first green string that had problems with bonding agents and a several reels of the original Ashway braided string.
    The first generation, similar to the 16G that is out now was the favorite of several Senior players I strung for in the 1990s as their back up racket for wet weather, and one switched to using it as a lower cost option once he retired.These men were flat hitters who did not break string using mid size frames. The 10% tension drop was what I used on the braided version.
    The mono version is working fine for me crossed with a poly, the set up remains playable for far longer than any other string I have used. I drop the tension 20% the same as I do for polys.
    The mono in a full bed isn't my cup of tea, as I feel that the Tough is better for my style,
     
  12. corners

    corners Legend

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    Monogut ZX is less than half as stiff as copolys.
     
  13. corners

    corners Legend

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    Ashaway recommends ten second pulls.
     
  14. corners

    corners Legend

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    Care to share how you did find it?
     
  15. corners

    corners Legend

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    LOL. The USRSA playtesters were also very mixed in their judgements of this string. I guess we all have to find out about it for ourselves.

    Although the stiffness numbers may not tell the whole story of this string, they do reveal the basic fact that MonogutZX is just a little stiffer than natural gut and therefore should, objectively, be nearly as easy on the arm.
     
  16. Automatix

    Automatix Hall of Fame

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    Sure. Sorry, I don't really read this section often.

    For me this string is nothing special. It felt softer to me than some of the stiffer polys like Signum Pro Tornado but it wasn't as comfy as multis I've used e.g. MCS, NRG2, TGV, X-One or soft polys, like Polyfibre Black Venom, for that matter.

    To tell you the truth I wouldn't recommend it to players with arm problems.
    And I really am stumped by this. I mean the data suggest it's close to gut... in my short experience with it, it's not... not by a country mile.

    It didn't provide as much spin as polys or Head RIP Control.
    It had controllable power and I had good sense of where the ball was going, no problem with depth or length.

    The thing is I only tested it in a full bed and as such it didn't shine in any department for me. Maybe except the fact the strings didn't notch as much as multis. This made me wonder how it would work in a hybrid.
     
  17. corners

    corners Legend

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    Hmm, what a strange string. Thanks for your report Automatix!
     
  18. corners

    corners Legend

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    Ashaway claims it holds tension better than syngut, which if true is pretty good. TWU's numbers, however, show it loses tension just like a copoly. But I think TWU's testing protocol for tension loss is extreme. I think we'll need some reports from people with ERTs or RacquetTune to find out how it does in the real world. Given how variable the reports about this string have been, I wouldn't put too much stock in purely subjective opinions about tension loss.

    Look forward to hearing how it plays for you.
     
  19. Automatix

    Automatix Hall of Fame

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    A pleasure.
    This strings' behaviour in regard to its specs is still a mystery to me.
     
  20. corners

    corners Legend

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    I guess it makes sense in a way. All the strings we have played for years have been basically of three types: natural gut, nylon and polyester. We've all grown pretty familiar with the playing characteristics of these materials so, even though Zyex resembles gut in stiffness and poly in slipperiness, it is a completely different material and seems to perform differently for everyone.

    Given this, it might be helpful if future reviews posted in this thread make greater mention of playing style, level and the favorite strings of the reviewer than usual. This would give us better context of where the reviewer is coming from and might help us figure out what the strengths and weakness of Monogut ZX are, and for what type of player it might be suitable.
     
  21. Torres

    Torres Banned

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    Okay, I'm going string this up next week and give it a thorough playtest because I'm intrigued by a material that's neither poly, nor nylon, nor natural gut.

    Any suggestions as to tension and racquet?

    Probably going to string it up in a 6.1 18x20 since the pattern and the number of stings makes it easier to assess differences in spin, power, touch etc. Usually I go for a soft co-poly at 52 or 53 CP in that stick. Alternatively, I can string it up in a 6.1 16x18, Juice Pro, Yonex 95d, or Babolat PST. Am open to suggestions.

    Not sure where that 10 second pull suggestion comes from - sounds a bit crazy to me - do you have a link, corners?
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2013
  22. mikeler

    mikeler G.O.A.T.

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    I agree with you that the more strings there are in a racket, the more you can distinguish between strings, so my request goes for the 18x20. The Ashaway Dynamite 16 I am going to string up next feels like a poly in hand. I would not venture too far away from your poly tension. Just my 2 cents.
     
  23. Kevo

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    I tested dynamite once at 61lbs. in a RDX 500 Mid. It played much better for me at the higher tension that it did when I played it at 52lbs.

    It definitely had more feel at the higher tension. It was more gut like to me in the sense that you could feel the ball on the string bed better.

    The problem was it did seem harder on the arm at the higher tension. I probably wouldn't have been able to play with it that way all the time. Gut I feel I could string at 80lbs. and it would still be easy on the arm.

    Zyex I think has a sweet spot somewhere that works, but it's not as forgiving. It needs some tension on it to really bring out it's good points, but if you string it too high you will feel it.

    My favorite zyex string so far is the Klipper Zyex 17g. It's really good except for the durability. More durable than most multis, but not enough for the money IMO.
     
  24. Lakers4Life

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    Gamma Professional is part of the Livewire family.

    I'll try 10 secs next time, when tensioning on my Sensor it does take longer to settle. I count a minimum 5 secs, but watching my tensionhead go back and forth, I wait for it to settle before clamping.

    I would string it up like a regular Syn Gut set up, then adjust from there. I think if you start out low like a Poly it will be too powerful.
     
  25. purple-n-gold

    purple-n-gold Professional

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  26. corners

    corners Legend

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  27. corners

    corners Legend

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    From an info packet I got on Monogut ZX (not sure if this is online or not):

    "Allow time for string to elongate under tension. Count to ten (10)."

    So a ten count, not ten seconds, sorry about that. TW University found that tensioning Monogut ZX to 51 pounds resulted in elongation of 13%. By comparison Tonic 16 elongated 6% when pulled to the same tension. Makes sense that you'd want to stretch out this "slack" before playing. (Elongation that occurs during tensioning is a measure of static stiffness - elongation during a slow pull. Dynamic stiffness, which is elongation during a rapid impact, is the measurement we normally use to compare strings because it's relevant to playing characteristics. Static stiffness isn't really relevant once you've tied your nots because the static stiffness and dynamic stiffness can be very different. For example, natural gut has higher static stiffness than MonogutZX but it's the other way around in a dynamic, high-speed, situation. The German company Stringaway makes a big deal of static stiffness for some reason, I think because it can be measured with only a stringing machine, while dynamic stiffness requires a more complicated apparatus to measure.)

    Luckily TWU and USRSA provide us with dynamic stiffness data.
     
  28. Ramon

    Ramon Hall of Fame

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    I'm steering clear of mono zyex based on my playtest crossing it with gut mains. No feel, low spin, and too much power. It's quite the opposite of poly. At least it's easy on the arm, but I can get that from cheap syngut. The worst part was feeling no connection with the string and the ball. Even when I hit great shots it felt as if I was shooting in the dark and hoping to get lucky.
     
  29. corners

    corners Legend

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    Thanks for your thoughts Ramon. This is such a strange string. The only other poster to have given feedback on gut/MonogutZX said it was just as hard on his arm as gut/poly, but you're saying it's easy on the arm. Go figure.

    Have you ever hit with full gut at 50 pounds in the same racquet?

    Did you find better or worse spin potential with gut/MonoZX than with gut/syngut? How about string movement?

    Are you saying that the feel with gut/MonoZX was less or worse than with gut/copoly?

    Also, what you do mean exactly by "too much power". Does full gut also have too much power for you?

    Sorry, I'm not trying to be a smart ass, it's just that "power" means different things to different people. I always think of what Nate Ferguson told TW years ago in regards to strings and string tension: "The more power the better, as long as you can control it."
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2013
  30. Ramon

    Ramon Hall of Fame

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    I posted my experience recently:

    http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=447979

    I've hit with full gut and gut/poly on the same racquet, and when I string my racquet on my machine at 50 lbs it's actually closer to 57-60 lbs from anyone else. RacquetTune proves it. Spin potential for me was less than full gut and power was similar to full gut. Arm-friendliness was almost as good as full gut. String movement was minimal, but then again, I only tried it for few minutes, so it never had the chance to lose tension. The loss of feel and control was the worst part of it. I'm not going to bother trying it at different tensions because I know it would be a waste of time. It was THAT BAD.

    I'm done with monofilament Zyex. I'd need a good reason to try multifilament Zyex, and I can't think of one.
     
  31. sstchur

    sstchur Hall of Fame

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    Technically yes, but the older (original) branding/packaging of Professional was just "Gamma Professional" (and not Live Wire Professional) and I still think of it that way, so when someone talks of the Live Wire family, I don't usually think of Pro as being included in that (though, you're right that technically it is these days)
     
  32. corners

    corners Legend

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    Thanks Ramon. But you only tried it for a few minutes? That doesn't seem like enough time to even adjust for the setup's rebound angle, let alone evaluate the string's potential for control. But I hear what you're saying - you hated it and wanted it out of your racquet. That's too bad. I can totally understand how a string with gut-like "power" but with less spin and feel would suck. I'm still going to try it but your comments have dampened my enthusiasm.
     
  33. maggmaster

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    I have it in one of my exo 3 tours right now. I played 2 hours with it last night and did not love it, I was winning but only with a ton of effort. It doesn't seem to add much power, but it also doesn't seem to add any spin.
     
  34. corners

    corners Legend

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    Thanks for contributing to this thread. In terms of power and spin, what are you comparing it with?
     
  35. mikeler

    mikeler G.O.A.T.

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    What tension and which string pattern Exo are you using?
     
  36. maggmaster

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    I put it in at 56 right before I played so it may be lower today. 16 by 18 pattern and my other 2 have KLIP armour gut and Big hitter black as a gut/poly hybrid. @ 56/52
     
  37. corners

    corners Legend

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    So compared to armourpro/BHG you found a full bed of MonogutZX to not offer any additional spin or power?
     
  38. mikeler

    mikeler G.O.A.T.

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    Excellent info, thanks. Now I'm trying to figure out what to string Ashaway Dynamite at. I was thinking 45 pounds.
     
  39. maggmaster

    maggmaster Hall of Fame

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    Ah sorry this was Dynamite 17 not monogut.
     
  40. corners

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    Ah, Dynamite is completely different than Monogut ZX. It has a braided nylon jacket that inhibits string movement, so we'd expect it to be lackluster in terms of spin production.
     
  41. Ramon

    Ramon Hall of Fame

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    My comments aren't here to discourage anyone from trying if they are set on it. Some people just want to hear other experiences before they try. I tried it primarily because I've heard very few comments from play testers and decided to be a guinea pig myself.

    I wanted to like it and gave it what I thought was more than enough time. Generally, when I like a string, I can tell from the very first hit. Poly, gut, and my favorite multis all felt great from the first hit. A few strings are disasters and since this was a unique setup, I gave it extra time compared to other disasters.

    Let us know what you think when you try it out. I'm curious to hear what others say.
     
  42. mikeler

    mikeler G.O.A.T.

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    17g usually is more powerful than 16g. Guess I will go with 45 pounds then.
     
  43. corners

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    OK, thanks again Ramon. Sorry it was such a waste for you. I'm definitely going to try it, probably in a full bed, as a cross with gut mains like you did, and as a cross for a soft and bitey copoly main (like BHB7 or Tourbite 18). This string has to have a good use somewhere :)

    It's going to take some time, though, as I'm not playing at the moment. But when I get to it I'll post my reviews in this thread.
     
  44. corners

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    I just took a look at the TWU data and saw that Dynamite 17 is almost identical, in terms of stiffness and energy return, to Isospeed Pro Classic. Thought I'd mention it in case the info could help you choose a good tension.
     
  45. mikeler

    mikeler G.O.A.T.

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    Isospeed Pro Classic 16 is next in line after Dynamite for my playtesting so that is good to know.
     
  46. Torres

    Torres Banned

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    Interestingly on the back of the packet for Monogut ZX it makes the following stringing recommendations:-

    10-15% lower tension than traditional nylon string for the natural colored ZX

    15-20% lower tension than traditional nylon string for the colored (ie red) version of ZX.

    20% lower??? No way!

    Out of the packet, the string isn't a floppy 'string like' material at all. It's not multifilament floppy, for example like, Technifibre Multifeel or Mantis Comfort Synthetic. It's more like a poly in that it wants to hold its shape. But its also unlike poly in that its very, very bendy with alot of "give" to it. Even the springier soft co-polys aren't anywhere near as bendy as this. Gauge looks thin. 1.27mm looks alot thinner than 1.27mm. Put some pulling tension through and its going to be even thinner.

    I think I'll string it up at my normal soft-poly tensions of 52lbs CP and see what happens, but if I had to guess, there's no way this string is going to be as stiff as a poly, or even as stiff as a soft co-poly. But out of the packet at least, neither does it feel as soft as a say synethetic gut like Gosen Micro. It still wants to hold its shape.

    I suspect the correct tension would probably be somewhere between what you'd string a soft co-poly at and what you'd string a synthetic gut at, or as corners suggested, have a slightly longer pull time during stringing to take out some of that bounciness / springiness from the string. There's certainly alot of "give" to it. I can't imagine that this is going to be a stiff string. But equally I can't imagine that its going to be as soft as a high quality natural gut either but who knows....
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2013
  47. Ramon

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    I think you're correct in your assessment. One thing that surprised me was the big amount of elongation I was getting on my drop weight machine. It's definitely not as stiff as poly.
     
  48. corners

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    Yeah, it's half as stiff as a typical poly and a good 60% less stiff than a typical syngut. It's interesting that it's stiffer in the hand than syngut; this must have something to do with its surface hardness, which is more similar to poly and accounts for its resistance to notching. It's the surface hardness and slickness, combined with dynamic stiffness nearly as low as gut, that makes this stuff interesting, and puzzling, seemingly.

    If we wanted to generalize about stiffness across string materials, from less stiff to more stiff, it goes:

    natural gut << zyex < polyolefin < nylon multi << nylon syngut << softest copoly <<<< stiffest copoly <<<<<<<< kevlar
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2013
  49. Torres

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    Definitely unusual, and definitely unlike any other string material. The article below suggests that Zyex is very resistant to abrasion (and breakage) but also that it has alot of elongation and 'snap back' like natural gut. You wouldn't expect the two characteristics to go together ie something that elongates alot and supposedly springs back, you'd expect to be soft and thus susceptible to abrasion/breakage.

    What is Zyex?

    http://www.ashawayusa.com/SquashTip26.php
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2013
  50. Player#1

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    If anyone wants to trade some of this string, let me know. I want to try this one!
     

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