Ashaway 100% Zyex monofilament

Discussion in 'Strings' started by corners, Feb 22, 2012.

  1. maxpotapov

    maxpotapov Hall of Fame

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    As fgs reiterated, tension loss is less relevant to stringbed behavior, than loss of resiliency/elasticity.

    Deadness has to do with dynamic properties of the string (such as dynamic stiffness). I think you can still control the ball with natural gut at super low tensions, as you still have that linear response and pocketing due to high elasticity/resiliency (even though power can become unmanageable). It's dead polys that become totally uncontrollable, afterall, why people can control fresh polys at 30s lbs?
     
  2. Torres

    Torres Banned

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    Agreed. .
     
  3. corners

    corners Legend

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    Hey guys, could we take the "going dead" discussion to another thread, either to a new one or one of the many existing ones, and leave this thread for primarily discussing Ashaway Monogut ZX?
     
  4. corners

    corners Legend

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    Definitely worth a try. Please post your results here if you do it. This Zyex monofilament seems to have created a completely new category of strings.

    It's available now in 16g natural and red and 17g natural and red. TWU has only tested the 16g version, probably in the natural color.
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2013
  5. mikeler

    mikeler G.O.A.T.

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    I hate to bust you on technicality but we can also talk about regular Monogut since the thread title is "Ashaway 100% Zyex monofilament". :)
     
  6. corners

    corners Legend

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    Reverse bust: Regular or original Monogut is 0%, rather than 100% Zyex. 8)
     
  7. polytheist

    polytheist Rookie

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    To really prove the dead poly theory, carefully remove some dead poly and restring it into someone's racquet (not mine) at desired tension.
     
  8. corners

    corners Legend

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    What happens?
     
  9. maxpotapov

    maxpotapov Hall of Fame

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    Good one :)
    Or simply cut in the middle, it won't even move (well, almost). So it's not really stretched even though it's under tension.
     
  10. polytheist

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    Dead strings don't snap back due to loss of elasticity. Not because they are dirty, scuffed, or tensioned lower. You could put gut in the mud and it would still snap back. You can cut gut out, restring it into another racquet, and it will still snap back. Why? Because it retains elasticity.

    When polys lose elasticity, they stop snapping back, and the stiff feel gets compounded by both the strings direct lack of elasticity (in the direction of the ball impact), and the lack of string movement (again caused by no string elasticity sideways).
     
  11. mikeler

    mikeler G.O.A.T.

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    Crap, not the dreaded reverse bust! :)

    So are you going to pick up a set of this string and let us know how it plays? I'm starting to burn out on string testing again...:(
     
  12. corners

    corners Legend

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    Lol, yeah I'm gonna but have to wait for the snow to melt. Here in Siberia one has to be patient for spring.

    What, you burn out on testing!? You've got one more novel stringjob in you, i know it!
     
  13. corners

    corners Legend

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    You might be right. Well, so many people opposing my point of view, you guys must be right.
     
  14. Buford T Justice

    Buford T Justice Semi-Pro

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    I suspect the truth is some combination of all these things discussed.

    Increased string to string friction, loss of tension, loss of elasticity, etc all adding up.
     
  15. corners

    corners Legend

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    That's very kind of you Mr. Justice, but I'm leaning toward me being wrong. God, I must have low T.

    Are you still thinking of throwing some ZX in your Steam?
     
  16. Buford T Justice

    Buford T Justice Semi-Pro

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    Well, we'll just place an order down in Miami under the "Cacique" account :)
    Yes I will probably try this by adding a set to the next reel order. I am a little concerned about varying away from the Polylon approach, as if I like something else a lot better, it will undoubtably not be 34 bucks a reel. So, as I think I noted in another thread, sometimes it's better to just keep your head in the sand:)
     
  17. Buford T Justice

    Buford T Justice Semi-Pro

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    And, I still think there is something to the friction part of the equation as I have proven to myself about 10 times now that adding lube to strings that don't manually snap back, allows them once again to do so.

    Now, could reducing the friction be offsetting the loss of elasticity? Who knows.....
     
  18. polytheist

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    Friction is the other side of the equation.

    Lube lowers friction, allowing the reduced elasticity (the force of the string snapping back into place sideways) to overcome the new lower friction.

    You can lube dead poly into a more playable state for about 20 min. It won't be like new, but it won't be as dead as dead dry poly.

    And it does tend to leave waffle marks on the balls, and it's hilarious how your opponents will never figure out where those marks came from.
     
  19. corners

    corners Legend

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    Already got it! I'm feeling frisky and combative now. Let's debate elasticity!


    34 bucks a reel is pretty darn nice. Another string worth trying in the Steam might be Hurricane Feel. Not a cheap string, sorry, and has kind of flown under the radar, but in my opinion it ticks all the boxes for something that might excel in a 99S: stiff, extremely slippery, is in the top-5 of all polys in terms of tension maintenance (which means it has good elasticity ;-).
     
  20. corners

    corners Legend

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    Deleted post
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2013
  21. Buford T Justice

    Buford T Justice Semi-Pro

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    Awww man.....$216 a reel......ouch.

    From the description, it does look like a good Steam string. But hot dang.....I wonder if its 7 times better than the Polylon?

    This is my current dilemma....I know the Polylon isnt the greatest stuff out there (as some say, perhaps its close to weedwacker line....LOL), but it seems like its very difficult to beat the bang for the buck it provides when one knows they are going to be stringing very often anyway.
     
  22. maxpotapov

    maxpotapov Hall of Fame

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    Cheap does not come for free. When I got tired/hurt from constant using of Polylon, I realized there are more cost effective solutions. Like natural gut hybrids with string savers (and now with hand lotion!) if you really want best bang for the buck (and for your arm)
     
  23. Buford T Justice

    Buford T Justice Semi-Pro

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    Yes, I definitely want bang for the buck and also long term arm health.

    The more I test the Polylon, the more I see its "cheapness" and your "electric wire" analogy. In using Racquet Tune, this string does seem to just fall off a cliff tension wise immediately, then slowly drop tension from there. But, what I have been noticing the last few days (as I have not struck a tennis ball with the frames, but have still been taking RT measurements), is that the tension drops seem to be the same with this string whether they are sitting in a tennis bag, or out hitting balls! I overlaid the RT curves for the stringjobs for the same time periods, and the tension drops are pretty much the same whether the strings were even hit with or not. After ~3 days, its dropped ~7-8% of the post stringing RT reading either way.

    OK....now that Ive derailed the Zyex thread.....
     
  24. Buford T Justice

    Buford T Justice Semi-Pro

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    Has anyone tried any of the Zyex offerings from Klipper USA? They are not much less expensive than the Ashaway though.....
     
  25. mikeler

    mikeler G.O.A.T.

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    I was thinking about buying a pack of Solinco Tour Bite soft. TW will ship 2 packs of string for $1.50 regular mail. So I might try this Monogut as well. Problem is my arm just started acting up a little bit again. So I may wait...
     
  26. Buford T Justice

    Buford T Justice Semi-Pro

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    How do you get the $1.50 shipping for 2 packs? I havent seen this come up on the online ordering?
     
  27. mikeler

    mikeler G.O.A.T.

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    You have to call the order in.
     
  28. Torres

    Torres Banned

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    3 new packs of red 1.27mm ZX have arrived today.

    Going to string up the 6.1 again (this time at 52lbs CP), and also a Juice Pro this time (at 53lbs CP).

    These are the same tensions that I used to string a soft co-poly.
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2013
  29. corners

    corners Legend

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    Ashaways new zyex monofilament, ZX, is the only zyex string that is slippery. All the other zyex strings have braided nylon jackets that are extremely high-friction. They are as far from copoly strings as you can get. In a recent TWU experiment Dynamite 17 showed itself to be an anti-poly: the lowest spin potential of any string tested, and also the lowest rebound angle. I would think these traditional zyex strings would be ideal for a flatball hitter but awful in a Steam.
     
  30. mikeler

    mikeler G.O.A.T.

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    Any reason for buying the red versus the natural?

    BTW, TW's half reel prices would make the string more expensive for my racket string requirements than just buying packs???
     
  31. Torres

    Torres Banned

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    Red is apparently stiffer according to Ashaway. Mushy mushy stuff is not for me.

    And yes, reels seem to be as expensive as individual packs.
     
  32. mikeler

    mikeler G.O.A.T.

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    Good info, I'll definitely "go natural" if I buy it.
     
  33. fgs

    fgs Hall of Fame

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    this is an interesting info regarding the difference in stiffnes bewtween the red and the natural ones, as it is basically the first time i hear a producer saying that obviously colour, ie pigments, do affect the physical properties of the material. moreso, if i understood correctly, it is 5% less tension they recommend for the red one, and that is quite a lot!
     
  34. Buford T Justice

    Buford T Justice Semi-Pro

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    Yes, Ive been reading this on a number of strings lately. Who woulda thunk color would make a diff?
     
  35. Buford T Justice

    Buford T Justice Semi-Pro

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    Excellent input. Slippery is definitely king in these open patterns.
     
  36. fgs

    fgs Hall of Fame

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    there have been several posters including me stating that different colours play slightly different, but obviously we have been in the minority.
    if the colour is not applied, as happens with some strings, and it wears off after half an hour of hitting, then it basically gets into the chemical structure of the base material.
    i have been selling high performance nickel alloys for more than 15 years, and know that additions of as little as 0.2% of some rare earths or other metals, would quite dramatically change the physical properties of the alloy. while i have no idea about plastics, i assume that the same principles apply also to these materials.
    from the few strings i had the chance to play in different colours though, i would not have dared to state that they feel 5% different, so therefore i find the information obviously provided by ashaway really interesting. so, i'm only talking about the order of magnitude here.
     
  37. mikeler

    mikeler G.O.A.T.

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    Genesis coated Thunder Blast with some kind of black dye. Once they came out with an all white version, the softness and comfort were better. So I've seen firsthand that color does make a difference.
     
  38. fgs

    fgs Hall of Fame

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    mikeler,
    while an additional cover of any sort of dye will surely increase surface stiffness, it will nevertheless not alter the chemical composition of the base material. i intended to say that in the case of polys or this zyex string, the pigments added in the manufacturing proces will invariably lead to a change in chemical composition and hence a change in physical properties of the base material.
    what i am suprised nevertheless, is the 5% tension reduction recommended by ashayway for the red type of string over the natural one. i would have thought of less to be honest, but they sure know what they are talking about.
     
  39. mikeler

    mikeler G.O.A.T.

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    Agreed. My point is that even a surface dye which rubs off effects how the string feels. So if a coloring agent is physically mixed in with the string I'd expect it to change the string even more. 5% does seem to be a lot but I'm going to follow their stringing recommendations if I use another Zyex string.
     
  40. fgs

    fgs Hall of Fame

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    i'm really keen on putting my hands on a monogut zx, but obviously i have not had any luck in sourcing it in continental europe, i have only found it in the uk and on tw-usa, so i might consider pulling the trigger with one of these sources.
     
  41. corners

    corners Legend

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    Have you asked ashaway if they have any eu
    Rope distributors?
     
  42. fgs

    fgs Hall of Fame

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    on their website they name victor international, the famous brand for badminton equipment. i assume they do good business in europe, but in respect to tennis strings they don't seem to be very keen on selling. you get some ashaway kevlars and synguts, but even the dynamite is pretty much absent from the shelves.
    i have sent an e-amil to germany, they also distribute to austria, and am looking forward to a reply. if nothing is happening then i'm most probably goint to buy either from the uk or from tw-usa (tricky thing with customs though, which puts prices up by more than 45%!).
     
  43. scotus

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    I ordered a set of red.

    Will see how this plays.
     
  44. julianashaway

    julianashaway Rookie

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    A lot of intersting discussions on this thread.
    Before I say anything on the subject of Monogut ZX, let me first admit that I am the director of manufacturing for Ashaway Racket Strings. I do not want to get in the way of any honest feedback of the product. Actually, I feel that if enough players and stringers are able to give an honest review of this product it will be to our benefit. I simply would like to make a few points to increase the understanding of the product.

    Mongut ZX (16 ga) and Monogut ZX Pro (17 ga) are monofilament tennis strings. Both gauges are available in both red and natural at this time. The natural is pure Zyex and gets its color directly from the polymer. The red is pure Zyex with pigment added to give the color. As discussed in this thread, pigmentation does effect the properties of the string slightly. We find this too be the case often when coloring strings for a variety of racket sports. In the case of Monogut ZX we find that the red pigment makes the red string stiffer than the natural which has no pigment. This is why it is recommended to string the red with less tension that the natural.

    The discussion of dead poly in this thread is not misplaced because it relates directly to the beneficial features of Monogut ZX. The measurement that best explains the benefits of Monogut ZX is dynamic stiffness. This measurement describes how effectively a string returns energy to the ball upon impact. If you go to the string finder on Tennis Warehouse University (address below) you will notice that this measurement is used for both Power and Arm Friendliness. This makes sense if you think about it: the more power that comes from the string the less that has to come from your arm. Monogut ZX ranks behind only Natural Gut strings in this measurement. Poly strings typically rate poorly in this measurement. "Dead poly" as discussed in this thread is poly that has lost all dynamic stiffness. Because of the nature of Zyex, Monogut ZX will not lose dynamic stiffness like poly does. Those who like natural gut should like Monogut ZX and it's cost.

    Finally, I would encourage those who like Mongut ZX to try Monogut ZX Pro. Blind testers have found it to be more playable without much of a drop in durability. Please feel free to ask any questions about the product on this thread. I will do my best to answer thoughtfully and without prejudice.


    http://twu.tennis-warehouse.com/learning_center/stringfinder/stringfinder.php
     
  45. Torres

    Torres Banned

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    Great to have you on board, Julian.

    I think you've got a phenomenally interesting string in Monogut ZX and kudos to you for bringing something different to the market. As you can see from the various posts, I'm evaluating the string at the moment, and I have to admit that based on initial impressions, I'm really liking it.

    Would love to know if you've done any tests on this string's tension maintenance characteristics.

    Just a quick point regarding marketing/sales (which I appreciate isn't your area), but it would be good if you could make 200m reels available which are at a lower cost than saying buying 16 individual sets.
     
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2013
  46. Torres

    Torres Banned

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    [​IMG]

    Wilson BLX Juice Pro (96/16x20)
    Ashaway Red Monogut ZX 1.27mm @ 53lbs CP


    And so the test begins (again). This time strung as a 2 piece and in a different racquet.

    I'm obviously stringing higher that what Ashaway recommend (about 10% lower than nylon as opposed to their recommended 15-20%), but I don't want something too soft. I also played with it about 1.5 hours immediately after stringing just to see what sort of string bed characteristics it has off the stringer.

    Had initial 1 hour hit with it this eveing. It's a little bit boardy and tinny, but not uncomfortable. Either I've strung it too high (again), or it needs to break in and settle. Not noticing any unusual sweet spot characteristics this time around, though its obviously strung in a different racquet.

    Even during an initial 1 hour hit, I noticed the same/similar sort of string characteristics that I noticed from the 6.1 playtest. The stringbed during the first hour, could do with loosening up a bit (or I need to go slightly lower tension-wise next time), but I think I'm going to like this string. Excellent 'volume knob' power modulation, power on demand when you need it, nice sort of poly-lite 'thwap, thwap, thwap' control etc. Spin is there provided you get your racquet head speed up and brush up behind the ball. You can really get the ball to dip at the last moment if you put enough rotations on it, though spin and ultimate 'cut' on the ball is not as much as the best 'grabby' polys.

    The stringbed did feel slightly boardy and it could do with a bit more forgiveness but I suspect that was a symptom of the higher tension I used. Feel was okay but I suspect it will improve with a lower tension or when the strings break in or settle over the day next or so, or during the next hitting session. Will probably try 51lbs CP next time. One of the nicest things about this string in the 6.1 was the feel on contact and the confidence which that gave. It was kinda crisp but plush, not mushy but forgiving. I'm hoping to achieve that feel again in the Juice Pro once the stringbed beds in.

    Going to have another hit with it on Tues or Wed evening.
     
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2013
  47. corners

    corners Legend

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    Looking forward to hearing how it goes.
     
  48. mikeler

    mikeler G.O.A.T.

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    Torres,

    Did you play with it the same day it was strung?

    I almost pulled the trigger on this today. TE is rearing its ugly head again.
     
  49. Torres

    Torres Banned

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  50. mikeler

    mikeler G.O.A.T.

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    Thanks for the link. I'm using about 6 different methods to treat the TE and I'm taking a few days off.

    I've found that most multis except Dynamite Tough lose most of their tension in the first 24 hours so they will soften up a day later. Dynamite lost only about 50 percent tension before I used it. The final tension loss ended up being equivalent to a normal multi.
     
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2013

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